Patrick Miller

[Grumps 3,704]

I work with an LSU grad and he told me that Jarret Lee was supposed to graduate last semester, which would open up the spot on the 85 limit for him, but he didn't so they didn't have room

Hmm... Was Lee academically eligible for the big game? He hasn't played in the last 3 games.

I am pretty sure that it is against the rules to be on the sidelines in full uniform if you are not eligible to play.

[smilin tiger 0]

Maybe he wasn't wearing his cleats. That would make him legal.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

Unless the rules have been changed, they count the 85 scholarship number once a year, at the beginning of fall classes. Thus it doesn't matter how many enroll early or how many enroll before seniors graduate, as long as the seniors are gone by late August.

Now, I will entertain the idea that LSU got commitments from other players they thought more of and told Miller to look elsewhere so they could clear a spot on their 25 man annual limit.

Some pertinent rules:

Scholarships are counted against the 85 man limit as soon as the athlete receives aid from the institution.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. [FBS/FCS] An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial

aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted

to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

15.5.6.3 Initial Counters—Football (Also see Bylaw 15.02.3.1).

15.5.6.3.1 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering in Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS]

A student-athlete recruited (see Bylaw 15.02.8) by the awarding institution who enters in the fall term and

receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) during the first academic year in

residence shall be an initial counter for that year in football. Therefore, such aid shall not be awarded if the

institution has reached its limit on the number of initial counters prior to the award of institutional financial

aid to the student-athlete. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

15.5.6.3.2 Recruited Student-Athlete Entering After Fall Term, Aided in First Year. [FBS/FCS] read Spring Enrollees

A student-athlete recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.8) by the awarding institution who enters after the first term of

the academic year and immediately receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics

ability) shall be an initial counter for either the current academic year (if the institution’s annual limit has

not been reached) or the next academic year. The student-athlete shall be included in the institution’s total

counter limit during the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[RunInRed 16,487]

<iframe width="600" height="400" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GCYX4ViUKvk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

I work with an LSU grad and he told me that Jarret Lee was supposed to graduate last semester, which would open up the spot on the 85 limit for him, but he didn't so they didn't have room

EDIT: According to TigerBait.com Lee did graduate.

According to the NCAA's replacement rule, a university can put on scholarship as many early enrollees as scholarship athletes graduate in December. There were five scholarship players who graduated in December. There were six Tigers commitments who intended to enroll in January.

The five scholarship players who graduated were Will Blackwell, T-Bob Hebert, Mitch Joseph, Jarrett Lee and James Stampley. Lee earned his degree after winter intercession, which ended Jan. 4. Stampley, originally a walk-on, was placed on scholarship this past semester.

Six LSU commitments graduated early from high school and intended to begin classes next week. The six commitments are Vadal Alexander, Ronnie Feist, Reid Ferguson, Gunner Kiel, Lamar Louis and Miller. The individual who was not offered a scholarship for the upcoming semester was Miller.

[Truman_AU_2015 0]

He doesn't need that family in Baton Rouge when he has the AU Family. Glad to have him here. War Eagle y'all.

[AURaptor 1,126]

Man, talk about one jumping right in your boat...and right where we really need it, too.

Awesome.

[RunInRed 16,487]

Man, talk about one jumping right in your boat...and right where we really need it, too.

Awesome.

This.

[tgr4lfe 220]

HUGE pick up, no doubt. Possibility of him competing for OT position this fall? I would imagine enrolling now would raise that likelihood greatly!!

[Mikey 16,727]

Ok then, either the rule has changed since I last looked into it or I was flat wrong in my earlier interpretation. It does appear that if a school is bumping the 85 limit, they must graduate a current player to make room for an early enrollee.

By whatever means, this is a great pickup for Auburn!

[cptau 169]

Perhaps our new OC from the NFL made him reconsider?

And then there is always the, "the dorm room they put me in was really bad" reason. I have seen people switch schools at the last minute because of some mess up with student housing. They literally walked in saw the room, left and got in the car and drove to the next school.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

If you watch the video RuninRed posted, it seems pretty simple. He wanted to enroll in January for the spring semester. LSU called and they ended up having some people they expected to graduate in January that didn't quite get there, so they didn't have enough slots to let all the early enrollees on scholarship in January. Miles called Miller's dad and asked him to pay for the spring semester and they'd put him on scholly in the summer. Miller had been torn between Auburn and LSU and having family in Baton Rouge had been the tipping point, but now at the last minute they were dropping this bomb on him. So the had the coach call Auburn to see if we had openings for early enrollees and if we still wanted him. AU said yes, they slept on it and pulled the trigger the next day.

[cptau 169]

If you watch the video RuninRed posted, it seems pretty simple. He wanted to enroll in January for the spring semester. LSU called and they ended up having some people they expected to graduate in January that didn't quite get there, so they didn't have enough slots to let all the early enrollees on scholarship in January. Miles called Miller's dad and asked him to pay for the spring semester and they'd put him on scholly in the summer. Miller had been torn between Auburn and LSU and having family in Baton Rouge had been the tipping point, but now at the last minute they were dropping this bomb on him. So the had the coach call Auburn to see if we had openings for early enrollees and if we still wanted him. AU said yes, they slept on it and pulled the trigger the next day.

So for whatever LSU tuition for a semester costs plus housing and meals, LSU lost him.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

If you watch the video RuninRed posted, it seems pretty simple. He wanted to enroll in January for the spring semester. LSU called and they ended up having some people they expected to graduate in January that didn't quite get there, so they didn't have enough slots to let all the early enrollees on scholarship in January. Miles called Miller's dad and asked him to pay for the spring semester and they'd put him on scholly in the summer. Miller had been torn between Auburn and LSU and having family in Baton Rouge had been the tipping point, but now at the last minute they were dropping this bomb on him. So the had the coach call Auburn to see if we had openings for early enrollees and if we still wanted him. AU said yes, they slept on it and pulled the trigger the next day.

So for whatever LSU tuition for a semester costs plus housing and meals, LSU lost him.

It was a "slots available" issue, not a money issue. The timing of it would put them over the 85 scholarship limit, so they needed one of the new arrivals to wait until summer when some of the seniors would be graduated. They chose him and he didn't like it.

[hqsi99 103]

If you watch the video RuninRed posted, it seems pretty simple. He wanted to enroll in January for the spring semester. LSU called and they ended up having some people they expected to graduate in January that didn't quite get there, so they didn't have enough slots to let all the early enrollees on scholarship in January. Miles called Miller's dad and asked him to pay for the spring semester and they'd put him on scholly in the summer. Miller had been torn between Auburn and LSU and having family in Baton Rouge had been the tipping point, but now at the last minute they were dropping this bomb on him. So the had the coach call Auburn to see if we had openings for early enrollees and if we still wanted him. AU said yes, they slept on it and pulled the trigger the next day.

So for whatever LSU tuition for a semester costs plus housing and meals, LSU lost him.

It was a "slots available" issue, not a money issue. The timing of it would put them over the 85 scholarship limit, so they needed one of the new arrivals to wait until summer when some of the seniors would be graduated. They chose him and he didn't like it.

The answer to this is probably no, but could a school put a player in this situation on some sort of academic scholarship for one semester and then change it to a football scholarship when the room opens up?

[AUtiger98 24]

If you watch the video RuninRed posted, it seems pretty simple. He wanted to enroll in January for the spring semester. LSU called and they ended up having some people they expected to graduate in January that didn't quite get there, so they didn't have enough slots to let all the early enrollees on scholarship in January. Miles called Miller's dad and asked him to pay for the spring semester and they'd put him on scholly in the summer. Miller had been torn between Auburn and LSU and having family in Baton Rouge had been the tipping point, but now at the last minute they were dropping this bomb on him. So the had the coach call Auburn to see if we had openings for early enrollees and if we still wanted him. AU said yes, they slept on it and pulled the trigger the next day.

So for whatever LSU tuition for a semester costs plus housing and meals, LSU lost him.

It was a "slots available" issue, not a money issue. The timing of it would put them over the 85 scholarship limit, so they needed one of the new arrivals to wait until summer when some of the seniors would be graduated. They chose him and he didn't like it.

The answer to this is probably no, but could a school put a player in this situation on some sort of academic scholarship for one semester and then change it to a football scholarship when the room opens up?

My understanding is the in the NCAA's eyes academic scholarship and an athletic scholarship both count towards your 85 number. Even if they put him on a track scholarship he would have counted in the 85 number.

[AURaptor 1,126]

HUGE pick up, no doubt. Possibility of him competing for OT position this fall? I would imagine enrolling now would raise that likelihood greatly!!

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, not on just Patrick Miller, but of those already on campus, but doesn't he seem like he could use a year of weight training before seeing 1st or 2nd string action? Westermann was RS last year, and it's my understanding that he was higher ranked, more heavily recruited than Miller.

[Tigermike 3,053]

HUGE pick up, no doubt. Possibility of him competing for OT position this fall? I would imagine enrolling now would raise that likelihood greatly!!

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, not on just Patrick Miller, but of those already on campus, but doesn't he seem like he could use a year of weight training before seeing 1st or 2nd string action? Westermann was RS last year, and it's my understanding that he was higher ranked, more heavily recruited than Miller.

The point being Westerman didn't come in early. That's not a knock on him, just the way it was. Any kid who enrolls early will have a jump on those coming in in May or June. Working out for 6 months, working through spring drills gives them a foot up.

But then there are those like Willie Anderson & Steve Wallace who are destined to be a starter almost from day one.

On the whole in general that is.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

He may need a year in the weight room, but Auburn may not have that luxury. We just don't have bodies on the OL. Simple as that. Including Patrick Miller, the following are the only scholarship OL on the team:

OT - Slade, Robinson, Miller

OG - Sullen, Mack, Burgess, Westerman, O'Reilly (the latter two could shift out to Tackle if needed)

C - Dismukes, Fariyike

With the loss of Ed Christian and Aubrey Phillips (medical reasons... careers are over) and Shon Coleman's illness (hopefully he'll be able to suit up at some point, but it won't be this year), the only other guys available are walk-ons. Any and all OL in this class have a legit chance at immediately impacting the two-deep.

[Mikey 16,727]

A "recruited" football player that is put on scholarship, any scholarship, counts as a football scholarship. That's Bear Bryant rule #97.

Some ignorant B'ham News writer published an article about four all-state football players getting academic scholarships at UAT. Da' Bahr got the writer fired, but someone at the NCAA read the article, stepped in and stopped that practice.

Auburn's current basketball player Josh Wallace is on an academic scholarship for engineering, but Wallace was not a recruited BB player so he doesn't count against the BB limit.

[hqsi99 103]

A "recruited" football player that is put on scholarship, any scholarship, counts as a football scholarship. That's Bear Bryant rule #97.

Some ignorant B'ham News writer published an article about four all-state football players getting academic scholarships at UAT. Da' Bahr got the writer fired, but someone at the NCAA read the article, stepped in and stopped that practice.

Auburn's current basketball player Josh Wallace is on an academic scholarship for engineering, but Wallace was not a recruited BB player so he doesn't count against the BB limit.

Interesting. Thanks for the information. As I said, I figured the answer was no due to the ease of which something like that could be abused, but didn't know if it was specifically prohibited.

[80Tiger 901]

HUGE pick up, no doubt. Possibility of him competing for OT position this fall? I would imagine enrolling now would raise that likelihood greatly!!

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, not on just Patrick Miller, but of those already on campus, but doesn't he seem like he could use a year of weight training before seeing 1st or 2nd string action? Westermann was RS last year, and it's my understanding that he was higher ranked, more heavily recruited than Miller.

IMO if you are playing true freshman in the OL you have problems. OL is the one spot where additional strength and immediate coaching (footwork, technique) are needed the most. The fact is most defensive upper classmen are stronger and heavier. Upper tier division 1 OL recruits have been used to manhandling their opponents and very seldom would face anyone on their level. You do get exceptions such as Marcus McNeil but on a whole they all need a RS year. Just think if Ziemba and Pugh had been redshirted.

[SCBusPilot 72]

To me, this looks like fallout from Gunner Kiel committing to LSU in late December and then enrolling early. With only 5 slots to give and (now counting Kiel) 6 players coming in, LSU had a decision to make between Kiel and Miller. However it worked out, it looks like we got an outstanding OL!

[cptau 169]

A "recruited" football player that is put on scholarship, any scholarship, counts as a football scholarship. That's Bear Bryant rule #97.

Some ignorant B'ham News writer published an article about four all-state football players getting academic scholarships at UAT. Da' Bahr got the writer fired, but someone at the NCAA read the article, stepped in and stopped that practice.

Auburn's current basketball player Josh Wallace is on an academic scholarship for engineering, but Wallace was not a recruited BB player so he doesn't count against the BB limit.

Interesting. Thanks for the information. As I said, I figured the answer was no due to the ease of which something like that could be abused, but didn't know if it was specifically prohibited.

Basically it is a contamination rule. If a athlete has extremely good grades and qualified for a school awarded academic scholarship you cannot approach them about coming to the school and joining the team, or the count as one of the 85. If they elect to walk on with no contact by the coaching staff, then the school awarded scholarship should not count for the 85. But the NCAA probably has a rule about that too............. It makes perfect sense that UAT broke that rule.

[Mikey 16,727]

A "recruited" football player that is put on scholarship, any scholarship, counts as a football scholarship. That's Bear Bryant rule #97.

Some ignorant B'ham News writer published an article about four all-state football players getting academic scholarships at UAT. Da' Bahr got the writer fired, but someone at the NCAA read the article, stepped in and stopped that practice.

Auburn's current basketball player Josh Wallace is on an academic scholarship for engineering, but Wallace was not a recruited BB player so he doesn't count against the BB limit.

Interesting. Thanks for the information. As I said, I figured the answer was no due to the ease of which something like that could be abused, but didn't know if it was specifically prohibited.

Basically it is a contamination rule. If a athlete has extremely good grades and qualified for a school awarded academic scholarship you cannot approach them about coming to the school and joining the team, or the count as one of the 85. If they elect to walk on with no contact by the coaching staff, then the school awarded scholarship should not count for the 85. But the NCAA probably has a rule about that too............. It makes perfect sense that UAT broke that rule.

The NCAA uses the "recruited athlete" term to the hilt. If several schools recruited your guy, he's a recruited athlete and if he goes on academic scholarship at your school and walks on an athletic team, he counts against the scholarship numbers. Even if your school didn't recruit him (or claims they didn't recruit him) if others did he's considered to be a recruited athlete.