Healthy Expectations

[corchjay 5,311]

I guess we will be breaking down how many games he's won with 5 pcs of chewing gum vs how many he's won when he's had 8 pcs.   Like I've said and I generally have nothing negative toward a player but JJ6 almost cost Gus his job.  You strike out at QB you're in trouble.  

[GwillMac6 20,671]

Just now, corchjay said:

I guess we will be breaking down how many games he's won with 5 pcs of chewing gum vs how many he's won when he's had 8 pcs.   Like I've said and I generally have nothing negative toward a player but JJ6 almost cost Gus his job.  You strike out at QB you're in trouble.  

How is that not on Gus though? If we are not going to hold him accountable for JJ who do we lay the blame at the feet of?

[DAG 33,982]

1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

I certainly hope he stays completely out of Chips way and let him do his thang. Gus has certain traits of a good CEO Head Coach I have noticed. The team never quits on him. We never get blown out hardly in his tenure. Seems to be a good motivator. I know he probaly does not seem himself as a CEO Head Coach but he has the skill set to be a really good one if he will just let the OC do his job and not yank back play calling duties at the first sign of trouble.

 

I think it will be near impossible for him to completely stay out of the way. I don't mind him having some input and at least telling Lindsey what he expects out of his gameplan, but he needs to let Lindsey tailor the gameplan as he wants.

[GwillMac6 20,671]

Just now, DAG said:

I think it will be near impossible for him to completely stay out of the way. I don't mind him having some input and at least telling Lindsey what he expects out of his gameplan, but he needs to let Lindsey tailor the gameplan as he wants.

yup were in complete agreement over this! 

[corchjay 5,311]

Just now, GwillMac6 said:

How is that not on Gus though? If we are not going to hold him accountable for JJ who do we lay the blame at the feet of?

It falls to Gus sure and the lack of recruiting behind him.  Everything imaginable pointed to JJ6 being an absolute stud.  

I think Gus has learned his lesson for relying on an individual player you better have backup plans for your backup plans.

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I think it will be near impossible for him to completely stay out of the way. I don't mind him having some input and at least telling Lindsey what he expects out of his gameplan, but he needs to let Lindsey tailor the gameplan as he wants.

It should totally be up to the Head coach what he allows his assistants to do.  Now do I agree to be less of a micromanager, yes, but it's CGM team...  this thread isn't about Gus. 

It's about what should a "fanatics" expectations be for his team.  Realistic expectations 

[DAG 33,982]

Just now, corchjay said:

It should totally be up to the Head coach what he allows his assistants to do.  Now do I agree to be less of a micromanager, yes, but it's CGM team...  this thread isn't about Gus. 

It's about what should a "fanatics" expectations be for his team.  Realistic expectations 

 

Yep

[GwillMac6 20,671]

3 hours ago, keesler said:

+1

The current crop of SEC coaches are just middling compared to the past regime.  

 

There are very few seasoned/SEC caliber coaches to replace Urban Meyer/Steve Spurrier/Les Miles/Mark Richt/Bobby Petrino and even to a degree Houston Nutt.  I'm talking HC's that know how to run a program, recruit, hire solid staffers and know how to navigate the waters of the SEC and have the knowledge and ability to adjust/evolve their programs to stay on top of the SEC heap.

Currently the SEC is a great big fish tank with one alpha great white, a bunch of beta sand sharks, a stupid looking hammerhead or two, and couple of bottom feeders living off the refuse of the rest.

 

Honestly coaching greatness across the board throughout the country seems to be down. Or maybe since the sec is lacking so badly with the worst it has ever been where not even 1 other even GOOD head coach in the SEC it makes me think there is not as many other good coaches across the national landscape. The Sec is so easy for saban now.

[corchjay 5,311]

Just now, GwillMac6 said:

Honestly coaching greatness across the board throughout the country seems to be down. Or maybe since the sec is lacking so badly with the worst it has ever been where not even 1 other even GOOD head coach in the SEC it makes me think there is not as many other good coaches across the national landscape. The Sec is so easy for saban now.

Honestly with the machine that Saban has created you could bring back Meyer, coach dye, barry switzer, Joe Pa, bobby Bowden and whoever else you want to name and he'd be hands down the leader in the clubhouse.  Parity reigns for 99 percent of the teams.  They'll have a good run with good defense and good QB play, then it's down a year or 2 and until they get another good QB in.  If you plucked one of the coaches from todays game and threw him into the 70s they would absolutely destroy those coaches it's still a blocking and tackling game but the schemes are much more diverse and complicated even on the defensive side.

[Rednilla 5,391]

Realistically, since we're playing 12 games now, I don't believe we should ever win less than 8 in the regular season unless it's a meltdown year in which something goes horribly wrong. From there, I would say averaging at least 9 wins (regular season) over any given five year stretch is fine. Like if we have two 8 win seasons, then we have two 10 win seasons to offset the down years, and win 9 in the other year. I also expect to win the West at least one season out of the five, and to win the conference at least once every decade. Of course I'd like more than just that, but having a chance to win 10 games with a bowl victory in 3 out of 5 years seems reasonable.

As for recruiting, I NEVER expect to be outside the top 15, and expect the class to be rated in the top 10 at least 4 out of 5 years. The reason for this is simple: it's the only way to keep up in the SEC. According to the 247 Composite rankings, we were 9th, 9th, 8th, and 6th for the last four years, but didn't finish better than 4th in the conference even once. All four classes had at least 6 SEC teams in the top 12, which is why it's so danged hard to win in the SEC to begin with.

Now, I do think Gus is learning on the job, but I also believe he has the makings of a great coach at Auburn. Of course, this season will be telling: with the experience and talent across the board this year (not to mention the quality depth at quarterback), I expect to win at least 10 and be in the hunt for the West come October. If we win less than 9--again, regular season--I suspect we'll be shopping for a coach in December.

[AURex 1,995]

Coaching greatness -- baloney. Let's get real. CGM showed up in the SEC with a scheme that was different from anything opposing teams had encountered and he had the players to execute it.

THEN REALITY HAPPENED! Opposing defensive coordinators developed strategies for countering, and the players left, and ....

This happens over and over. Historically, look at the wishbone and the veer. Amazing success. Then opposing DCs figured out how to counter it.

Eventually, new schemes fade and it comes down to jimmys and joes in schemes that exploit the talents of the jimmys and joes you got.

I am optimistic that Auburn has abandoned the scheme tailor made for Cam and NM and can capitalize on the talent of current players. Because unless you recruit like Bama, stockpiling 85 superstars, the playbook on both sides of the ball has to match the talent on your roster -- else you suck.

Coaching greatness -- to me that's just coaching the players you got to maximize their potential and developing a playbook to match their abilities. Not the other way around.

I'm really, really hoping that Lindsey + Borges ion offense, plus Steele and the great crew of coaches on defense, can accomplish that. IF THEY CAN, Auburn can begin achieving its potential of 9-11 wins per season.

 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

Honestly with the machine that Saban has created you could bring back Meyer, coach dye, barry switzer, Joe Pa, bobby Bowden and whoever else you want to name and he'd be hands down the leader in the clubhouse.  Parity reigns for 99 percent of the teams.  They'll have a good run with good defense and good QB play, then it's down a year or 2 and until they get another good QB in.  If you plucked one of the coaches from todays game and threw him into the 70s they would absolutely destroy those coaches it's still a blocking and tackling game but the schemes are much more diverse and complicated even on the defensive side.

I think urbs can match him pound for pound in recruiting and coaching. He already has 3 national titles 2 away from saban and he is 12 years younger. I think when it is all said and done Urbs will go down as being greater than ol nick. Yah it was a bad look when Urb bounced from the SEC but I mean He beat him with his third string QB a few years later and won a natty with him so I think that put all that noise to bed of meyer is scared of saban.

[GwillMac6 20,671]

5 minutes ago, AURex said:

Coaching greatness -- baloney. Let's get real. CGM showed up in the SEC with a scheme that was different from anything opposing teams had encountered and he had the players to execute it.

THEN REALITY HAPPENED! Opposing defensive coordinators developed strategies for countering, and the players left, and ....

This happens over and over. Historically, look at the wishbone and the veer. Amazing success. Then opposing DCs figured out how to counter it.

Eventually, new schemes fade and it comes down to jimmys and joes in schemes that exploit the talents of the jimmys and joes you got.

I am optimistic that Auburn has abandoned the scheme tailor made for Cam and NM and can capitalize on the talent of current players. Because unless you recruit like Bama, stockpiling 85 superstars, the playbook on both sides of the ball has to match the talent on your roster -- else you suck.

Coaching greatness -- to me that's just coaching the players you got to maximize their potential and developing a playbook to match their abilities. Not the other way around.

I'm really, really hoping that Lindsey + Borges ion offense, plus Steele and the great crew of coaches on defense, can accomplish that. IF THEY CAN, Auburn can begin achieving its potential of 9-11 wins per season.

 

I think how (and I hate to give this man any props. I honestly cannot stand him) Dabo has gone about it is how we need to model our program after. Which is weird to say since Auburn is historically a better program than clemson. Dabo Has realized what all the NFL has realized in college (unless your bama) you need a superstar qb 9 times out of 10 to win big. Dabo was just a average coach until Tajh Boyd first season and ever since then its been 10 win season after 10 win season going from Boyd to Watson. There was no stop gap QB like a Barrett Trotter or Chris Todd type who they had to endure growing pains with. Plus he has that High School Prodigy number 1 player in the country for class of 2018 committed and numerous other 4 and 5 star qbs already on the roster. Clemson is set for many years to come. That is the easiest way how we maintain a level of consistency in our program without a great head coach. Got to hit on our QB evals and recruit the position at a high level.

[aubaseball 2,602]

From a historical view Auburn is a roller coaster school.  Every coach has had an outstanding year, coupled with mediocre to poor seasons.  The lone exception is barfield.  I'm only going back to shut.   

So the question is can Auburn be consistent? I believe that will only happen if Auburn were to get a once in a lifetime coach like saban.    Not to get off topic, but until AU gets a completely different administration, it will never happen.  Auburn is a 8 to 9 win team with the occasional great year.  But here is to hoping for a great year 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

11 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

From a historical view Auburn is a roller coaster school.  Every coach has had an outstanding year, coupled with mediocre to poor seasons.  The lone exception is barfield.  I'm only going back to shut.   

So the question is can Auburn be consistent? I believe that will only happen if Auburn were to get a once in a lifetime coach like saban.    Not to get off topic, but until AU gets a completely different administration, it will never happen.  Auburn is a 8 to 9 win team with the occasional great year.  But here is to hoping for a great year 

We can be as great as we want but the administration seems to be content with the current formula in place. Like you said 8 to 9 win team give or take with the occasional great year sprinkled in. 

[DAG 33,982]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Honestly with the machine that Saban has created you could bring back Meyer, coach dye, barry switzer, Joe Pa, bobby Bowden and whoever else you want to name and he'd be hands down the leader in the clubhouse.  Parity reigns for 99 percent of the teams.  They'll have a good run with good defense and good QB play, then it's down a year or 2 and until they get another good QB in.  If you plucked one of the coaches from todays game and threw him into the 70s they would absolutely destroy those coaches it's still a blocking and tackling game but the schemes are much more diverse and complicated even on the defensive side.

I agree to an extent . I know what NS is doing is unprecedented. He is on a historic run that I actually want to absorb as it is not common in competitive sports . Probably why he has turns of haters .  Being a winner and doing it your own way doesn't breed acceptance . Still, I want AU to beat him every chance they get . Iron bowl 2013 was one of the best nights of my life . Not only because of how the game played out but also because whom we beat .

[WFE12 9,191]

6 hours ago, corchjay said:

I guess we will be breaking down how many games he's won with 5 pcs of chewing gum vs how many he's won when he's had 8 pcs.   Like I've said and I generally have nothing negative toward a player but JJ6 almost cost Gus his job.  You strike out at QB you're in trouble.  

You know...I wouldn't be surprised if people actually broke down his games like that

[kd4au 1,145]

10 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Realistically, since we're playing 12 games now, I don't believe we should ever win less than 8 in the regular season unless it's a meltdown year in which something goes horribly wrong. From there, I would say averaging at least 9 wins (regular season) over any given five year stretch is fine. Like if we have two 8 win seasons, then we have two 10 win seasons to offset the down years, and win 9 in the other year. I also expect to win the West at least one season out of the five, and to win the conference at least once every decade. Of course I'd like more than just that, but having a chance to win 10 games with a bowl victory in 3 out of 5 years seems reasonable.

As for recruiting, I NEVER expect to be outside the top 15, and expect the class to be rated in the top 10 at least 4 out of 5 years. The reason for this is simple: it's the only way to keep up in the SEC. According to the 247 Composite rankings, we were 9th, 9th, 8th, and 6th for the last four years, but didn't finish better than 4th in the conference even once. All four classes had at least 6 SEC teams in the top 12, which is why it's so danged hard to win in the SEC to begin with.

Now, I do think Gus is learning on the job, but I also believe he has the makings of a great coach at Auburn. Of course, this season will be telling: with the experience and talent across the board this year (not to mention the quality depth at quarterback), I expect to win at least 10 and be in the hunt for the West come October. If we win less than 9--again, regular season--I suspect we'll be shopping for a coach in December.

This since basically 3 of those wins are give me's and  a couple more should be easy wins so that gives you 5 to start the season.We should only have to beat 3 good or decent teams to win 8.

[AUpreacherman22 3,885]

22 hours ago, McLoofus said:

3 of our last 4 coaches went undefeated or reached a title game in their 2nd year or sooner.

If you count SECCG, then its all 4 out of the last 4

Tot - 11-0 year 1

Tubs - 9-2 SECCG appearance year 2  (Tubs did not go downhill from there)

Chiz - Natty in year 2

Gus - SEC champs and BCSCG appearance year 1

[AUpreacherman22 3,885]

34 minutes ago, kd4au said:

Now, I do think Gus is learning on the job, but I also believe he has the makings of a great coach at Auburn. Of course, this season will be telling: with the experience and talent across the board this year (not to mention the quality depth at quarterback), I expect to win at least 10 and be in the hunt for the West come November.

I agree with this.  Gus could be a good one.  We'll find out (sooner rather than later I think)

[Randman5000 4,228]

Consistency, Consistency, Consistency...

There is no reason why we can't be a top ten program every year or every other year. We need to earn it on the field and in recruiting. We've done pretty well in recruiting since Chiz but haven't consistently accomplished what we are capable of. It's put up or shut up come August. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 5/3/2017 at 10:43 PM, GwillMac6 said:

We have to get off this high horse and stop acting like we are some morally superior university.

While I understand your position here, all you have to do is look at how Auburn handles player discipline vs the rest of the big name college football programs and it's very hard to argue that Auburn doesn't take the moral high ground compared to other schools.  Case in point, Landon Rice vs. Mixon at Oklahoma. Landon was accused of sexual misconduct and eventually the court determined that there wasn't enough evidence to try him. Yet, from the moment he was accused, he was off the team and, now we know, banned from the University until 2024. Mixon laid a girl out on tape, causing serious physical damage and her to leave the school. His punishment was to sit out his red shirt year, and he was featured against us in the Sugar Bowl last year.  He's now awaiting his first round draft paycheck.

You can go down the line with Auburn... Robinson, Williams, Dyer, etc. Do something serious and there's the door. No waiting for the courts to figure it out, no indefinite suspensions that conveniently end on big game days, none of that.

Now look at track records from LSU, bama, Florida State, Oklahoma, etc. They frequently have players who committed felonies, while they were on the team, suiting up on Saturdays.  This is nothing new, either.

Yes, every team has boosters who play fast and loose with the rules, but until you can show me evidence of a big football school who takes honesty and fair play as seriously as Auburn does, the "we're just as bad as everyone else" thing is just hot air.

[DAG 33,982]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

While I understand your position here, all you have to do is look at how Auburn handles player discipline vs the rest of the big name college football programs and it's very hard to argue that Auburn doesn't take the moral high ground compared to other schools.  Case in point, Landon Rice vs. Mixon at Oklahoma. Landon was accused of sexual misconduct and eventually the court determined that there wasn't enough evidence to try him. Yet, from the moment he was accused, he was off the team and, now we know, banned from the University until 2024. Mixon laid a girl out on tape, causing serious physical damage and her to leave the school. His punishment was to sit out his red shirt year, and he was featured against us in the Sugar Bowl last year.  He's now awaiting his first round draft paycheck.

You can go down the line with Auburn... Robinson, Williams, Dyer, etc. Do something serious and there's the door. No waiting for the courts to figure it out, no indefinite suspensions that conveniently end on big game days, none of that.

Now look at track records from LSU, bama, Florida State, Oklahoma, etc. They frequently have players who committed felonies, while they were on the team, suiting up on Saturdays.  This is nothing new, either.

Yes, every team has boosters who play fast and loose with the rules, but until you can show me evidence of a big football school who takes honesty and fair play as seriously as Auburn does, the "we're just as bad as everyone else" thing is just hot air.

Landon rice. Key point. Guilty until proven innocent . I think every scenario is different including Mixons and it should be treated as such . In mixons situation , neither party should've touched each other. I think he paid his dues and I am hopeful that he has learned from it and glad he got a second chance . I hope Landon rice is afforded that opportunity as well, especially since he is innocent . We are second chance u . We should be the last group of individuals pointing at another institution for doing the same .

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, DAG said:

Landon rice. Key point. Guilty until proven innocent . I think every scenario is different including Mixons and it should be treated as such . In mixons situation , neither party should've touched each other. I think he paid his dues and I am hopeful that he has learned from it and glad he got a second chance . I hope Landon rice is afforded that opportunity as well, especially since he is innocent . We are second chance u . We should be the last group of individuals pointing at another institution for doing the same .

While I agree that he deserves a second chance, and I, too, was hoping Landon would get a second chance at Auburn when I heard the charges were dropped, apparently the Title IX office did not find him innocent, and the courts really didn't either, they just closed the case because they determined that there wasn't enough evidence support a trial... so I doubt it's going to happen.  

He's looking for another place to land, but when he went public with his communications with Louisville, they went into denial mode, so I have a feeling that he's still 100% guilty in the eyes of those who want to judge him and in the wake of Baylor, that makes him a pariah. 

As for Mixon... the kid seriously injured a much less powerful person and was never really punished for it. Had he been an Auburn player, he'd be playing for Louisville now. Had he been a non-athlete, he'd be in jail. The kid got a free ticket due to the fact that his coach/school value winning over character.

[DAG 33,982]

34 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

While I agree that he deserves a second chance, and I, too, was hoping Landon would get a second chance at Auburn when I heard the charges were dropped, apparently the Title IX office did not find him innocent, and the courts really didn't either, they just closed the case because they determined that there wasn't enough evidence support a trial... so I doubt it's going to happen.  

He's looking for another place to land, but when he went public with his communications with Louisville, they went into denial mode, so I have a feeling that he's still 100% guilty in the eyes of those who want to judge him and in the wake of Baylor, that makes him a pariah. 

As for Mixon... the kid seriously injured a much less powerful person and was never really punished for it. Had he been an Auburn player, he'd be playing for Louisville now. Had he been a non-athlete, he'd be in jail. The kid got a free ticket due to the fact that his coach/school value winning over character.

And you can judge them for that . I choose not to judge them for that because my school, has done the same with other athletes . Personally , it shouldn't matter what the public thinks . Mixon and the victim both were able to make peace, apologize , admit that both were in the wrong and move forward to help others in similar situations . If those two are at peace then it really shouldn't matter what others think .

Speaking of Dyer...Chizik did suspend him prior to the bowl game. Good for him. And then the very next year, guess who is there, ready to accept him with open arms?

Is that coach preoccupied with winning at all cost?