Offense Needs to Change

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

I guess the OP didn't think there were enough threads about this topic yet.

Well played.

I'm curious if some of these responses would be more constructive and less defensive if the OP was phrased more along the lines of, "Our offense was good in 2017. How can it be even better?"

[alexava 6,973]

49 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Well played.

I'm curious if some of these responses would be more constructive and less defensive if the OP was phrased more along the lines of, "Our offense was good in 2017. How can it be even better?"

Improve is not synonymous with change. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, alexava said:

Improve is not synonymous with change. 

Well, I think a lot of people would define improvement as change for the better. Either way, I think the OP could have gotten a more productive conversation had he asked the same question- how can Auburn's offense be better- but framed it a different way. 

Somebody mentioned defense. I'd be very open to having the same conversation about that side of the ball.

As for the difference in perception between the two that somebody mentioned, I would argue that the defense was much more consistent than the offense. The point differential between their worst game and their best game was 27 points (we gave up 7 to Ga So. and 34 to UCF). The point differential between the offense's worst and best games was 46 (6 vs Clemson, 52 vs Arky). And those aren't outliers. *We scored less than 10 twice and more than 50 twice. Meanwhile, the defense only gave up more than 30 once, and that was in the bowl game. 

*Maybe this will be my response to the multi-qualifier "we led the SEC in scoring in regular season SEC games" refrain going forward. Change the 10 to 20 and the 50 to 40 and we're probably a much less polarized fanbase. 

[Tiger 8,823]

14 hours ago, corchjay said:

We tried the slant route last year.  NCM show zero effort on one of those and the DB picked it.  Another was against UCF another of the picks on a bad read by Stidham.

Maybe the slant isn’t a good route for Stidham.  He had 6 INTs last year and I know at least 2 of those was off the slant route.  He’s seems much better on the shallow crossing and the short stop routes to R. Davis and Hastings.

Maybe its a Chip thing, Malzahn’s offense has always thrown the slant and the skinny post. 

To be fair, our only touchdown in the SEC Championship game was a beautiful strike from Stidham to Nate Craig-Meyers on a slant.

And to me personally it feels like we haven't thrown the slant more than 10 times since Gus came on as HC

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

Improve is not synonymous with change. 

but absent improvement, where's the need for change?

[AUsince72 11,084]

Have 2-3 viable RB's ready to play each week...and play them.

Have an OL coach who CAN coach (**maybe that's taken care of).

Have a "Plan B" prepared for every game. 

More dynamic WR routes & play.

Beyond that, it's a solid offense.

[Glen from West Glenn Ave 44]

Utilize plays where there are two running backs in the game at the same time.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

22 hours ago, Tiger said:

Somebody please explain it to Gus too

They tried.  Look at WDE's avatar to see the look on Gus' face.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

22 hours ago, LKEEL75 said:

It is still a zone read, just not the same zone-read that Cam or Nick ran.  This zone read is more for the third option to be a quick pass.  I think we will see more of this really shine next year with CCL gets to really get out there and call his plays.  At that point, you will see where we are throwing the quick passes off the option rather than QB keep.  Whether we do see this or not, the O is still a power running game off the zone-read.  We just will not run the QB as much as we use to.  Just enough to keep people honest like we did sparingly this year.

Not being a smart butt here but do you think that will happen or be allowed to happen.  I sure hope you are right.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

19 hours ago, bigbird said:

In football, the phrase evolve or die is just as applicable as in other areas.  I don't think we need to scrap the O, but there are certainly some aspects that need to evolve and others that need to be tweaked. 

Our runnings game has become stagnant.  We used to use misdirection as well as equally run inside and outside.  However, Last year, we rarely ran outside and never used misdirection. We were very predictable.  Our passing routes need to evolve to exploit the MoF and underneath the safeties. We also desperately need to utilize our backs in the passing game more than swing passed to Barrett. These types of things would evolve the offense into something that is even more difficult to defend. That's not a bad thing.

Bird stop being so negative.  I just can't take all the negativity in this thread. 

[TAYLORKEETON 791]

If only we could execute our RPO's like Nick Foles did with the Eagles. They ran that to perfection..

[AUsince72 11,084]

31 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Not being a smart butt here but do you think that will happen or be allowed to happen.  I sure hope you are right.

That's the $6.7 million question this year.  ...not to be negative. 

[LKEEL75 2,566]

35 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Not being a smart butt here but do you think that will happen or be allowed to happen.  I sure hope you are right.

I do think you will see CGM give up a little on the reigns of CCL.  Now I also think he is going to still emphatically press that we are a power run team first.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

9 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

That's the $6.7 million question this year.  ...not to he negative.

If I can say this without getting blasted......and no I'm not trying to be negative......If Gus had any intentions of ever changing what he does or letting someone else run their own scheme and truly call plays then he would hire an outsider who has never worked for or played under him.  Lashlee, Kodi, Chip, Grimes, and Hand are what he has surrounded himself with.  Gus is going to do what he knows and is not in the market for fresh ideas.  In his mind he is the master.  Gus does not throw short or intermediate routes over the middle because..........That is where he wants to run the ball.  I about fell over when I heard that myself.  I don't have the energy to argue but I am just going to sit back and watch this all play out.  If Chip runs his offense or anything other than what Gus tells him to call then I will be pleasantly surprised.  There has not been any evidence that this will happen.

[Tiger 8,823]

Maybe since Gus' future is a bit clearer for him now he doesn't have to feel like "if the ship goes down it's at least going to go down with me calling the shots". Now he can step back and understand that he is safe for a minimum of 3 years and maybe that will give him the comfort and confidence he needs to let CCL do his job fully.

I just want CCL to have the same power and control over the O that Gus had when Chizik was here. IMO to properly do the job in the SEC you really need to be fully focused on your portion of the team rather than have to juggle HC duties with OC duties -- it hurts us in both of those areas when our HC spreads himself too thin.

[AUGoo 2,663]

21 hours ago, corchjay said:

Maybe not have to play the #1, 6(twice), 8, 9, and 12th ranked defenses?

Might help.

Wow!

Half of our schedule was against the top 12 D's in the country!

[AdamsHouseCat 43]

We need more first down running plays that gain one yard.

[TigerFanAU 586]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Maybe since Gus' future is a bit clearer for him now he doesn't have to feel like "if the ship goes down it's at least going to go down with me calling the shots"

Possibly. I think if we simply added a few simple 7 yard curl routes, that would loosen up the linebackers a bit and open the run up. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

5 minutes ago, TigerFanAU said:

Possibly. I think if we simply added a few simple 7 yard curl routes, that would loosen up the linebackers a bit and open the run up. 

Your avatar would help things.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Have 2-3 viable RB's ready to play...and play them.

Hopefully we now have this, barring more internal issues or injuries. We should have 4 everydown backs, assuming Miller gets back to the point where the coaches trust him in that roll and Asa lives up to his ranking and can go out of the gate.  Based on what I've seen and read, I think Barrett and Whitlow are good to go. I'm also not writing off Worm focing the coaches to feature him.

3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Have an OL coach who CAN coach (**maybe that's taken care of).

Agreed... I think we've got this now.

3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Have a "Plan B" prepared for every game. 

I don't think that's good enough, we need someone who can analyze the game as it is happening and develop plans B, C, and D on the fly, based on what they are seeing. Gus has never shown this ability, even as an OC, and he's even stated it's not his philosophy. He believes that failure of Plan A is just failure of execution (which might be true, but at some point you have to cut bait). Maybe Chip can be the guy and Gus will give it a shot.

3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

More dynamic WR routes & play.

Agreed. Hopefully year 2 with Chip/Jarrett will make this a reality.

3 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

Beyond that, it's a solid offense.

I would add that we need to bring back some of the diversity we saw when Gus was just an OC. I harken back to an analysis from some sports talking head about out 2010 offense, who said something along the lines of Gus having only a handful of formations, but you never know what play is going to come from each of them. If you shifted your D, he had a backup play without adjusting the players, and then he had backup plays for those backup plays. He'd show you something 2 or 3 times and then you'd be ready for it only to get something entirely different. We need to get back to some of that, so when a team like UCF thinks they've got us figured out, we show them something they never expected.  I know some on her hate them, but I miss the the fake receiver screen handoff and the wrap around handoff, to name a couple of plays. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, AUGoo said:

Wow!

Half of our schedule was against the top 12 D's in the country!

Yup... Auburn is not the school to coach at if your goal is to get serious post season bonuses every year.

[AUsince72 11,084]

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Hopefully we now have this, barring more internal issues or injuries. We should have 4 everydown backs, assuming Miller gets back to the point where the coaches trust him in that roll and Asa lives up to his ranking and can go out of the gate.  Based on what I've seen and read, I think Barrett and Whitlow are good to go. I'm also not writing off Worm focing the coaches to feature him.

I agree AU SHOULD have enough horses.  Gus just needs to let them out of the gate more than 1 at a time.  "Will he" is another $6.7 million question.

11 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't think that's good enough, we need someone who can analyze the game as it is happening and develop plans B, C, and D on the fly, based on what they are seeing. Gus has never shown this ability, even as an OC, and he's even stated it's not his philosophy. He believes that failure of Plan A is just failure of execution (which might be true, but at some point you have to cut bait). Maybe Chip can be the guy and Gus will give it a shot.

YES, and it's maddening.  If your players aren't executing it's still on the coaches.  They're not being paid what "you" are.  

As for Gus giving Chip a legit shot?  Still not confident that'll happen.  But I digress to positivity 

17 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

would add that we need to bring back some of the diversity we saw when Gus was just an OC. I harken back to an analysis from some sports talking head about out 2010 offense, who said something along the lines of Gus having only a handful of formations, but you never know what play is going to come from each of them. If you shifted your D, he had a backup play without adjusting the players, and then he had backup plays for those backup plays. He'd show you something 2 or 3 times and then you'd be ready for it only to get something entirely different. We need to get back to some of that, so when a team like UCF thinks they've got us figured out, we show them something they never expected.  I know some on her hate them, but I miss the the fake receiver screen handoff and the wrap around handoff, to name a couple of plays. 

You know me. I'd be all for Gus just taking back over and running the 2010 & 2013 version and making Malik Willis the QB. 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

1)Hopefully we now have this, barring more internal issues or injuries. We should have 4 everydown backs, assuming Miller gets back to the point where the coaches trust him in that roll 

2)and Asa lives up to his ranking and can go out of the gate. 

3)Based on what I've seen and read, I think Barrett and Whitlow are good to go.

4)I'm also not writing off Worm focing the coaches to feature him.

1) I don't feel Miller will ever be that guy. In all honesty it's like he peaked in his 10th grade year. Add in the fact he just doesn't have SEC speed. I have always thought this about him since he signed, and has done nothing in his time here to show otherwise, even just by playing in mop up duty.

2) I hope Asa will be a stud for us. But in all honesty it may take him a year or two. I just don't see him taking an SEC beating year 1 as RB1. 

3) I totally agree on Whitlow. He has superstar written all over him. I hope he is ready, he is going to get his shot...starting with the soon coming spring practices. 

4) There is nothing I would love to see more than worm stepping in and taking over in our backfield. At first i was extremely sceptical about his size and speed as well. His speed based off his recruiting profile, and his size... well he is small, but a bowling ball for his size. I think he has become my favorite signee, and I truly have become one of his biggest fans!

2 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

You know me. I'd be all for Gus just taking back over and running the 2010 & 2013 version and making Malik Willis the QB. 

I cant wait to see that after next season, but when you have a thorughbred, you run it. You don't sit him on the bench. 

I don't think people understand just how good of a QB Jarrett Stidham is for this program. He stepped in and only had the 2nd best passing season in the history of the program... only behind Craig. And when DC put up all those yards, he was a 1 man show. He didn't have an ALL-SEC RB in the same backfield. 

I loved the 2010 and the 2013 offenses. They were both very different offenses, but they were sure fun to watch. In 2019, Willis is going to have a push for the QB job. If Willis wins the spot, I look for more of a 2013 Nick Marshall type offense. Running the zone read with Willis pulling off to the side. If Gatewood wins the job, I'd expect more of a 2010 offense. While it's still a zone read, it's an inside zone read. I'd expect Gatewood to pull it inside like Cam did. If Nix wins the job, if expect more of a Jarrett Stidham offense. The offense we run will be based off the strengths of the QB.

[AU64 10,122]

Funny thing..... all but 4 teams (out of 25) ranked above us in the total offense stats were ranked below us in the final football poll.   Makes me think there is more to this business than just how many yards a team can rack up.   There is always room for improvement but the idea of "changing: the offense when it one of the most effective in college football is really questionable.  

Tweak it, make it better and tailor it for the talent we have....but don't mess with something that seems to be working pretty well when we have healthy players.  JMO

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

don't think people understand just how good of a QB Jarrett Stidham is for this program. He stepped in and only had the 2nd best passing season in the history of the program... only behind Craig. And when DC put up all those yards, he was a 1 man show. He didn't have an ALL-SEC RB in the same backfield. 

Oh, I get it.  I LOVE Stidham and he could be the 2nd coming of #7.  I'd just rather see him under a fully Lindsey-fied offense rather than the "Malsey" offense from last year.  

1 hour ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

loved the 2010 and the 2013 offenses. They were both very different offenses, but they were sure fun to watch. In 2019, Willis is going to have a push for the QB job. If Willis wins the spot, I look for more of a 2013 Nick Marshall type offense. Running the zone read with Willis pulling off to the side. If Gatewood wins the job, I'd expect more of a 2010 offense. While it's still a zone read, it's an inside zone read. I'd expect Gatewood to pull it inside like Cam did. If Nix wins the job, if expect more of a Jarrett Stidham offense. The offense we run will be based off the strengths of the QB.

Totally agree except for Gatewood.  I'm not sure we'll (anybody) ever see another 2010 as it was ONLY because of Cam as he was a battering ram with blazing speed & durability (who could pass).  Not sure Gatewood is a battering ram.  I think he is more JJ than Cam.  And I don't mean that to disrespect him...JJ COULD have been great in the right offense.  Just....there's only 1 Bo....there's only 1 Cam....etc.  2013 style is attainable.  You can use a Navy QB or Ga Tech (sorry Golf) QB for that offense.  Gatewood & Nix both would benefit from Gus letting the reins go on Lindsey.