SEC doesn't suspend Quinton Dial for BCS Championship Game

[Auburnfan91 1,408]

WT, the funny thing about all of this is the fact that AM's stupidity caused all of this. First it was his int. Secondly, it was his failure to be aware of what opposing players were around him after he threw the pick. If he would have been aware of Dial, we wouldn't be talking about this because that hit wouldn't have happened. If I am not mistaken, Murray hasn't said too much about it. I don't know this to be fact but Murray said to some reporter that Dial led with his shoulder. Generally speaking, when you lead with your shoulder, your head is right there with it. The helmet to helmet subject has a huge gray area and it needs to be addressed in the off-season.

Steve Shaw said it was an illegal hit and should have been flagged. It doesn't matter if Dial lead with his shoulder or not, he hit Aaron Murray above the shoulders. That's an automatic personal foul.

[WarTiger 3,987]

No doubt... Fairley would've been flagged, ejected and suspended.

Say what you want but Fairley gave cheap shots all year. Dial is not known for cheap shots. Is anyone talking about suspending the UGA player for hitting AJ in the head or what about the other UGA player who tried to poke DM eye out? Lets talk about that. Has every player in college football this year been suspended because of a helmet to helmet? No and that is because helmet to helmet occurs on 70-80% of all plays in some way or another. Murray started moving towards the play after he threw the int. He became a defender. If he can tackle, he can get blocked.

That is completely FALSE. NOTHING in the rule book supports that nonsense. We've already outlined why that hit was illegal. Nothing you say to justify to yourself or defend it to us will change what the facts are. The rule book defines this clearly. It was illegal. period.

Here's one fan (of many) that we can file under the "he's on the field, its legal to hit him" category. You need to learn the game more.

Murray was more clueless than defenseless.

Given your ridiculous statement and shallow justification of the incident, I'd say you are the one that is clueless. Again. You need to learn the game more. Good luck with that.

WT, the funny thing about all of this is the fact that AM's stupidity caused all of this. First it was his int. Secondly, it was his failure to be aware of what opposing players were around him after he threw the pick. If he would have been aware of Dial, we wouldn't be talking about this because that hit wouldn't have happened. If I am not mistaken, Murray hasn't said too much about it. I don't know this to be fact but Murray said to some reporter that Dial led with his shoulder. Generally speaking, when you lead with your shoulder, your head is right there with it. The helmet to helmet subject has a huge gray area and it needs to be addressed in the off-season.

Are you serious? You are really making this hit being Murray's fault? Good grief dude. You really are the most clueless individual here. Talk about a MAJOR reach. WOW. Again, you need to learn the game more. Just because he is on the field DOES NOT make it legal for a player to hit him. The rules are very clear in this. Trying to explain this to you is a waste of time. Read the previous posts in this thread. They may help you learn the game a little but I won't hold my breath.

[AUloggerhead 2,356]

No doubt... Fairley would've been flagged, ejected and suspended.

Say what you want but Fairley gave cheap shots all year. Dial is not known for cheap shots. Is anyone talking about suspending the UGA player for hitting AJ in the head or what about the other UGA player who tried to poke DM eye out? Lets talk about that. Has every player in college football this year been suspended because of a helmet to helmet? No and that is because helmet to helmet occurs on 70-80% of all plays in some way or another. Murray started moving towards the play after he threw the int. He became a defender. If he can tackle, he can get blocked. Murray was more clueless than defenseless.

Total nonsense. Fairley had the one bad hit in the Uga game which resulted in a penalty. The other flag he got was the bogus celebration penalty he incurred in the IB after sacking the classless uat QB.

Dial targeted Murray above the shoulders and led with his head. Couple that with the fact that Murray was away from the play and the hit becomes all the more egregious. Should have resulted in a suspension. Only uat homers will defend this action.

[WarEagle10 77]

No doubt... Fairley would've been flagged, ejected and suspended.

Say what you want but Fairley gave cheap shots all year. Dial is not known for cheap shots. Is anyone talking about suspending the UGA player for hitting AJ in the head or what about the other UGA player who tried to poke DM eye out? Lets talk about that. Has every player in college football this year been suspended because of a helmet to helmet? No and that is because helmet to helmet occurs on 70-80% of all plays in some way or another. Murray started moving towards the play after he threw the int. He became a defender. If he can tackle, he can get blocked. Murray was more clueless than defenseless.

Total nonsense. Fairley had the one bad hit in the Uga game which resulted in a penalty. The other flag he got was the bogus celebration penalty he incurred in the IB after sacking the classless uat QB.

Dial targeted Murray above the shoulders and led with his head. Couple that with the fact that Murray was away from the play and the hit becomes all the more egregious. Should have resulted in a suspension. Only uat homers will defend this action.

Tht's what it all boils down to.

[penguin149 391]

If that hit was legal and acceptable, on each kickoff/punt the opposing team should just blister the crap out of the kicker....after all, he is eligible to make the tackle. Enough good shots to the head and his abilities will suffer later in the game!

[AcUmen 242]

I took some time this morning to look into this a bit more. The entire quote you listed above is nowhere to be found. I'd like to know where you are reading this. The newest edition of the book is a brief bulletin outlining the 2012 changes. It's 6 pages long and says absolutely nothing about helmet contact anywhere.

I got the rulebook from the NCAA website (.PDF file). Link here: http://ncaapublications.com/p-4292-2012-and-2013-ncaa-football-rules-and-interpretations.aspx

Page FR-8 at the above link has a "points of emphasis" section entitled "PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS AND CROWN-OF HELMET ACTION". Under that section it contains the sentence: "Flagrant

offenders must be disqualified from the game."

It appears you are right that not ALL of the calls should result in being "flagrant." So I guess my question has been answered. That is, it is up to the officials to decide what is flagrant and what is not.

[AcUmen 242]

If I am not mistaken, Murray hasn't said too much about it. I don't know this to be fact but Murray said to some reporter that Dial led with his shoulder. Generally speaking, when you lead with your shoulder, your head is right there with it. The helmet to helmet subject has a huge gray area and it needs to be addressed in the off-season.

Wrong. You don't understand the rules and haven't read the rulebook. If a player is defenseless, you cannot make contact with him to his head area with ANY part of your body (forearm, shoulder, elbow, helmet). This means even if Dial meant to lead with his shoulder, it is STILL a foul. It is not just a "helmet-to-helmet" issue. You cannot touch a defenseless player to their head area, period.

So the question becomes "Was Murray defenseless?" The rulebook says someone is defenseless if they are "clearly out of the play." I think it is very fair to argue that a QUARTERBACK is out of the play during a pick, especially when he wasn't even going after the ball carrier. The rulebook also makes it clear that even if the ball is still live, a player can still be defenseless. That means the argument that "the ball was live so Murray was fair game" is BOGUS.

So the next question would be, was the foul flagrant? The rulebook says flagrant fouls against defenseless players must result in ejections. This is a point we can argue since it's a complete judgement call.

[AEAugirl 9,644]

IMO Dial's hit on Murray was most definitely dirty....but good grief, Sheldon Dawson literally GOUGED Millner (or tried very hard to, it was pretty obvious anyway) in the eye...and nothing. I'm pretty shocked of the three plays that the SEC didn't step up and do something at the very least about that one.

But, Richt HAS disciplined him, although he will not lose any playing time (what a joke). Bama probably won't do anything at all tho IMO.

[Johndunc 33]

The SEC needs for BAMA to win so it can brag on the # of NC it has and the amount of $$$ it get from bowl games. They have a Free Pass when it comes to breaking the rules. Need any used textbooks??

[WarTiger 3,987]

I took some time this morning to look into this a bit more. The entire quote you listed above is nowhere to be found. I'd like to know where you are reading this. The newest edition of the book is a brief bulletin outlining the 2012 changes. It's 6 pages long and says absolutely nothing about helmet contact anywhere.

I got the rulebook from the NCAA website (.PDF file). Link here: http://ncaapublicati...pretations.aspx

Page FR-8 at the above link has a "points of emphasis" section entitled "PROTECTION OF DEFENSELESS PLAYERS AND CROWN-OF HELMET ACTION". Under that section it contains the sentence: "Flagrant

offenders must be disqualified from the game."

It appears you are right that not ALL of the calls should result in being "flagrant." So I guess my question has been answered. That is, it is up to the officials to decide what is flagrant and what is not.

Yeah. The only thing that really attaches an automatic ejection of a player is when they are fighting. If a punch is thrown (whether they make contact or not) its an automatic ejection. This, of course, is contingent on the officials seeing it and throwing the flag for it.

[Shire5k 19]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

[autigeremt 6,970]

$$$$$$ talks.....and there's big money on the line.

[E'Town4Bama 143]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

[Weegle777 78]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

[WarTiger 3,987]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

Sounds good in theory, but it won't stop the conferences from stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact. The rules are written to allow the conferences to step in and penalize further. Unless that is changed (which it never will be) your proposal can't happen.

[E'Town4Bama 143]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I am not here to defend dial for not getting a penalty, I am here to defend him against a suspension. I guess Dial could have went low and took his knee out but that would also be wrong so I guess he should have just let him go since he is a defenseless player.

[WarEagle10 77]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I am not here to defend dial for not getting a penalty, I am here to defend him against a suspension. I guess Dial could have went low and took his knee out but that would also be wrong so I guess he should have just let him go since he is a defenseless player.

pfffffffffffftttttttttttttttttt....Yeah, because those are the only two options.

[Weegle777 78]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I am not here to defend dial for not getting a penalty, I am here to defend him against a suspension. I guess Dial could have went low and took his knee out but that would also be wrong so I guess he should have just let him go since he is a defenseless player.

You and I both know that Dial knew Murray wasn't a factor in that play. It was an opportunity to take a free blind side ear hole shot to try to knock the starting QB out of the game. I've played ball and knocking the QB out of the game is every defensive player's dream.

[E'Town4Bama 143]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I am not here to defend dial for not getting a penalty, I am here to defend him against a suspension. I guess Dial could have went low and took his knee out but that would also be wrong so I guess he should have just let him go since he is a defenseless player.

You and I both know that Dial knew Murray wasn't a factor in that play. It was an opportunity to take a free blind side ear hole shot to try to knock the starting QB out of the game. I've played ball and knocking the QB out of the game is every defensive player's dream.

I guess if they make a rule saying you can't touch a QB after he throws a pick but the QB is also not eligible to block or make a tackle after he throws a pick. Then I guess I might have to live with that one. I can see it in about 10 years. "Welcome to the 2022 College Flag Football Championship Game with New Mexico vs UT-Chattanooga".

[Weegle777 78]

This is what I propose:

If they are so serious about protecting players, then make head to head collisions reviewable upstairs. I know penalties or lack thereof aren't supposed to be reviewable, but I think head to head stuff should be. Call the whistle, let the guy upstairs make the call if no one on the field did/could. If it was blatant kick them out of the game. That way we wouldn't have to worry about the conferences stepping in and issuing penalties after the fact.

It may not be feasible, but that's how I see it.

That would slow the game down and the ncaa wouldn't want to do that. The way football is going now, it won't be long until it is flag football.

I agree that football is becoming a little too cautious. But the hit on McCarron was no where near the hit Dial put on Murray. The only reason they threw the flag on the McCarron hit is because AJ complained to the official. The hit on AJ barely grazed the bottom of his facemask. The Dial hit was a chance to get a cheap shot on the starting QB. If you can't take off your crimson glasses and see that then you aren't being honest with yourself.

I am not here to defend dial for not getting a penalty, I am here to defend him against a suspension. I guess Dial could have went low and took his knee out but that would also be wrong so I guess he should have just let him go since he is a defenseless player.

You and I both know that Dial knew Murray wasn't a factor in that play. It was an opportunity to take a free blind side ear hole shot to try to knock the starting QB out of the game. I've played ball and knocking the QB out of the game is every defensive player's dream.

I guess if they make a rule saying you can't touch a QB after he throws a pick but the QB is also not eligible to block or make a tackle after he throws a pick. Then I guess I might have to live with that one. I can see it in about 10 years. "Welcome to the 2022 College Flag Football Championship Game with New Mexico vs UT-Chattanooga".

I agree that college football is becoming pansified. But the rules we have now say that it is wrong. Do I agree with the rules? No. But it is what it is. Should Nick Fairley have been flagged for suplexing the LSU QB? Was it unnecessary roughness? Yep it was. Was Fanning wrong in picking up the QB for Missouri? Absolutely. Go back and watch the play again. Was Murray engaging the player that intercepted the pass, or was he moving toward making the tackle? Nope he wasn't. Take off the crimson glasses and look at it for what it was. A free shot to try to take the starting QB out of the game.

[smackydoodle 200]

If Murray didn't want to be hit, he shouldn't have moved in the direction of the play and should have paid attention to his surroundings. I guess that's my "Crimson glasses" talking tho

[Weegle777 78]

If Murray didn't want to be hit, he shouldn't have moved in the direction of the play and should have paid attention to his surroundings. I guess that's my "Crimson glasses" talking tho :rolleyes:/>

May be. Again, they aren't my rules. I saw a receiver get hit across the middle in the Patriots vs. Niners game that was an embarrassing personal foul call by the refs. What are the DBs supposed to do? Do they stand back and let the guy score? SEC still got it wrong because they will not punish bama. But what do you do?

[smackydoodle 200]

If Murray didn't want to be hit, he shouldn't have moved in the direction of the play and should have paid attention to his surroundings. I guess that's my "Crimson glasses" talking tho :rolleyes:/>

May be. Again, they aren't my rules. I saw a receiver get hit across the middle in the Patriots vs. Niners game that was an embarrassing personal foul call by the refs. What are the DBs supposed to do? Do they stand back and let the guy score? SEC still got it wrong because they will not punish bama. But what do you do?

I just think it's getting overblown because it involved a QB. How many times have we gone "OOOOOOOOOOOOOH" when any other position player gets blind-sided on a block while moving in the direction of the person with the ball? Those are almost never called penalties and generally nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, the shot on Murray was brutal, but to be suspended for it? I dunno... they'd be suspending players every week.

[Weegle777 78]

If Murray didn't want to be hit, he shouldn't have moved in the direction of the play and should have paid attention to his surroundings. I guess that's my "Crimson glasses" talking tho :rolleyes:/>

May be. Again, they aren't my rules. I saw a receiver get hit across the middle in the Patriots vs. Niners game that was an embarrassing personal foul call by the refs. What are the DBs supposed to do? Do they stand back and let the guy score? SEC still got it wrong because they will not punish bama. But what do you do?

I just think it's getting overblown because it involved a QB. How many times have we gone "OOOOOOOOOOOOOH" when any other position player gets blind-sided on a block while moving in the direction of the person with the ball? Those are almost never called penalties and generally nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, the shot on Murray was brutal, but to be suspended for it? I dunno... they'd be suspending players every week.

The rule needs to be changed where a personal foul on helmet contact should be reviewable. The hit on McCarron earlier in the game wasn't even close to helmet to helmet contact and just because AJ threw his hands up and whined to the official, he threw the late flag.

[smackydoodle 200]

If Murray didn't want to be hit, he shouldn't have moved in the direction of the play and should have paid attention to his surroundings. I guess that's my "Crimson glasses" talking tho :rolleyes:/>

May be. Again, they aren't my rules. I saw a receiver get hit across the middle in the Patriots vs. Niners game that was an embarrassing personal foul call by the refs. What are the DBs supposed to do? Do they stand back and let the guy score? SEC still got it wrong because they will not punish bama. But what do you do?

I just think it's getting overblown because it involved a QB. How many times have we gone "OOOOOOOOOOOOOH" when any other position player gets blind-sided on a block while moving in the direction of the person with the ball? Those are almost never called penalties and generally nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, the shot on Murray was brutal, but to be suspended for it? I dunno... they'd be suspending players every week.

The rule needs to be changed where a personal foul on helmet contact should be reviewable. The hit on McCarron earlier in the game wasn't even close to helmet to helmet contact and just because AJ threw his hands up and whined to the official, he threw the late flag.

You're right, too many times the refs are influenced by the players. Especially on pass interference calls. Everyone is walking back to the line of scrimmage and all of a sudden the flag gets thrown because the WR is flailing his arms.