Troops On The Ground in Iraq

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I think most everyone here as well as Obama has indicated that we shouldn't put boots on the ground in Iraq Yet we now have 1200 which Obama has sent in small increments. I know the party line is that they are just there for training, intelligence, protecting the embassy, etc., but 1200 is a lot of boots. What do you think? I think if we had left that many there to start with instead of a complete pull out we might not have the current mess there now. JMHO.

And what are the Obama minions going to say when we get some of thee 1200 injured or killed?

[japantiger 4,077]

I think it is 18,800 too few. And we need strike aircraft.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I think it is 18,800 too few. And we need strike aircraft.

I'm really quite surprised you haven't been excoriated here for your opinion about this. barry said he would not put any boots on the ground and here he is doing exactly what he said he wouldn't. I do agree it would take +/-20,000 to restore the peace.That should have been the threshold for the negotiated leave behind forces. I still dont understand why out diplomatic corp was so eager just to get out of there that they hardly gave much effort to negotiating a status of forces agreement to maintain the peace. The Iraqi army was defintely not ready to stand on its own as evidenced by ISIS's sweeping success.

In any event, this Caliphate is a really bad development as it will call ALL the terrorists to band together under the one Caliph. Historically, it goes back to the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century. Understanding the fanatical religious implications of the restoration of the Caliphate would lead one to automatically conclude things will get much worse in the ME before they get better. The call has already been made for all the terrorist factions to pledge allegiance to the Caliph. We'll see where it goes but this could have been avoided but very possibly could also have been inevitable.

[AURaptor 1,137]

When did 300 become 1,200 ?

[cptau 169]

When did 300 become 1,200 ?

:gofig:/>

Mission Scope creep. Vietnam had the same think but no one noticed then until it was too late.

I don't know what 300 or even 1200 guys could do for that dump of a country. If they are mostly special forces they can defend the embassy while the helicopters evacuate the state department bureaucrats.

[alexava 6,974]

I think that it makes no difference what barry does he will be vilified by the usual suspects who seem to like to disagree with EVERY move made. i think you would complain no matter what. but as for what i would do is protect the embassy however many "boots" it takes then pick a side and give air support as needed.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Raptor....the original 300 has been increased quietly in small steps. The number being reported today is 1200. I don't have a link but heard it on several news programs throughout the day.

[Strychnine 1,804]

I think it is 18,800 too few. And we need strike aircraft.

I'm really quite surprised you haven't been excoriated here for your opinion about this. barry said he would not put any boots on the ground and here he is doing exactly what he said he wouldn't. I do agree it would take +/-20,000 to restore the peace.That should have been the threshold for the negotiated leave behind forces. I still dont understand why out diplomatic corp was so eager just to get out of there that they hardly gave much effort to negotiating a status of forces agreement to maintain the peace. The Iraqi army was defintely not ready to stand on its own as evidenced by ISIS's sweeping success.

In any event, this Caliphate is a really bad development as it will call ALL the terrorists to band together under the one Caliph. Historically, it goes back to the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century. Understanding the fanatical religious implications of the restoration of the Caliphate would lead one to automatically conclude things will get much worse in the ME before they get better. The call has already been made for all the terrorist factions to pledge allegiance to the Caliph. We'll see where it goes but this could have been avoided but very possibly could also have been inevitable.

Actually, the history of caliphates goes back to the 7th century, and is ultimately the source of the Sunni and Shia rift. Considering that rebels in Syria are fighting them, and Al-Qaeda has denounced them, I have serious doubts that their pronouncement of Islamic State represents the long-term doom and gloom it is made out to be. In fact, I think it may be a bridge too far.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

alexava.....can you tell me some significant move he has made lately that I should be happy with?

[alexava 6,974]

you seem to be happy to not be happy so i guess every move makes you happy.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I think it is 18,800 too few. And we need strike aircraft.

I'm really quite surprised you haven't been excoriated here for your opinion about this. barry said he would not put any boots on the ground and here he is doing exactly what he said he wouldn't. I do agree it would take +/-20,000 to restore the peace.That should have been the threshold for the negotiated leave behind forces. I still dont understand why out diplomatic corp was so eager just to get out of there that they hardly gave much effort to negotiating a status of forces agreement to maintain the peace. The Iraqi army was defintely not ready to stand on its own as evidenced by ISIS's sweeping success.

In any event, this Caliphate is a really bad development as it will call ALL the terrorists to band together under the one Caliph. Historically, it goes back to the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century. Understanding the fanatical religious implications of the restoration of the Caliphate would lead one to automatically conclude things will get much worse in the ME before they get better. The call has already been made for all the terrorist factions to pledge allegiance to the Caliph. We'll see where it goes but this could have been avoided but very possibly could also have been inevitable.

Actually, the history of caliphates goes back to the 7th century, and is ultimately the source of the Sunni and Shia rift. Considering that rebels in Syria are fighting them, and Al-Qaeda has denounced them, I have serious doubts that their pronouncement of Islamic State represents the long-term doom and gloom it is made out to be. In fact, I think it may be a bridge too far.

You may be right. Historically I went back to the last Caliphate. I understand it is rooted in their heritage even further back than the 15th century. Im not convinced this is just another development that doesn't really mean much. Calling ALL the Islamic extremists to unite, in and of itself, is problematic. I hope you're right and it doesn't amount to anything.

[Strychnine 1,804]

I think it is 18,800 too few. And we need strike aircraft.

I'm really quite surprised you haven't been excoriated here for your opinion about this. barry said he would not put any boots on the ground and here he is doing exactly what he said he wouldn't. I do agree it would take +/-20,000 to restore the peace.That should have been the threshold for the negotiated leave behind forces. I still dont understand why out diplomatic corp was so eager just to get out of there that they hardly gave much effort to negotiating a status of forces agreement to maintain the peace. The Iraqi army was defintely not ready to stand on its own as evidenced by ISIS's sweeping success.

In any event, this Caliphate is a really bad development as it will call ALL the terrorists to band together under the one Caliph. Historically, it goes back to the Ottoman Empire in the 15th century. Understanding the fanatical religious implications of the restoration of the Caliphate would lead one to automatically conclude things will get much worse in the ME before they get better. The call has already been made for all the terrorist factions to pledge allegiance to the Caliph. We'll see where it goes but this could have been avoided but very possibly could also have been inevitable.

Actually, the history of caliphates goes back to the 7th century, and is ultimately the source of the Sunni and Shia rift. Considering that rebels in Syria are fighting them, and Al-Qaeda has denounced them, I have serious doubts that their pronouncement of Islamic State represents the long-term doom and gloom it is made out to be. In fact, I think it may be a bridge too far.

You may be right. Historically I went back to the last Caliphate. I understand it is rooted in their heritage even further back than the 15th century. Im not convinced this is just another development that doesn't really mean much. Calling ALL the Islamic extremists to unite, in and of itself, is problematic. I hope you're right and it doesn't amount to anything.

They really cannot unite now, with or without a Caliphate. If they could, their groups would not be constantly splintering. Even Al-Qaeda considers them to be overstepping their bounds. Should they actually try to establish a functioning Caliphate, they will run into far stronger resistance from the other states in the region that are not interested in hearing that rubbish from someone like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi who now calls himself Caliph Ibrahim. In other words, just because they have declared it does not mean it has to be recognized as legitimate. For example, Sunni and Shia themselves spring from a succession dispute after the death of Muhammad. If it does actually end up turning into an actual Sunni extremist led Caliphate, prepare to see us adopt the unthinkable and end up allied with Iran.

[autigeremt 6,970]

Barry gets what he deserves. When he deserves positive remarks I'll gladly give it. They are rare, but it happens. It's up to him to earn them.

[AUFAN78 4,060]

Barry gets what he deserves. When he deserves positive remarks I'll gladly give it. They are rare, but it happens. It's up to him to earn them.

That goes for anyone in office. Unfortunately for the POTUS, he's had few successes of late and is paying dearly. Even on this forum.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Barry gets what he deserves. When he deserves positive remarks I'll gladly give it. They are rare, but it happens. It's up to him to earn them.

I would not go so far as saying he gets what he deserves. Close but, not quite. I would say that he has proven himself great at campaigning but, really lousy at politics. Presidents have to be better at courting bipartisan support.

[AUFAN78 4,060]

Barry gets what he deserves. When he deserves positive remarks I'll gladly give it. They are rare, but it happens. It's up to him to earn them.

I would not go so far as saying he gets what he deserves. Close but, not quite. I would say that he has proven himself great at campaigning but, really lousy at politics. Presidents have to be better at courting bipartisan support.

Nice post itch and so very true.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"I would say that he has proven himself great at campaigning but, really lousy at politics. Presidents have to be better at courting bipartisan support."

What? Campaigning IS politics....he is a master politician but truly poor at governing. I mean not even mediocre and makes Jimmy Carter look like the stateman of the century.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

"I would say that he has proven himself great at campaigning but, really lousy at politics. Presidents have to be better at courting bipartisan support."

What? Campaigning IS politics....he is a master politician but truly poor at governing. I mean not even mediocre and makes Jimmy Carter look like the stateman of the century.

No, Blue. Campaigning is only a small part of politics.

[autigeremt 6,970]

Barry gets what he deserves. When he deserves positive remarks I'll gladly give it. They are rare, but it happens. It's up to him to earn them.

I would not go so far as saying he gets what he deserves. Close but, not quite. I would say that he has proven himself great at campaigning but, really lousy at politics. Presidents have to be better at courting bipartisan support.

I'd say he's bad at politics AND leading. His policy decisions to run rampant over the Constitution makes GWB look like an angel.

[quietfan 233]

I think there is ZERO chance of ISIS, or the new "Caliphate", uniting the Muslim world, or even Muslim terrorism. The only times I can think of when the majority of Islamic people were united under one state were during the original Caliphate immediately following Mohammed's death (and, as many have said, the split between Sunni and Shia began) and the Ottoman Empire, and in those cases the empire was held together at the point of a sword/gun. Even Saddam Hussein with his brutality struggled to hold Kurds, Sunnis, and Shias together in Iraq alone. During the two centuries of the Christian crusades, their efforts were often aided by fighting between Sunni and Shia states in Egypt, Syria and modern day Turkey. Even today, the predominantly Shia group Hezbollah in Lebanon/Syria has difficulty cooperating with Hamas, a Sunni group in the Gaza Strip, despite their mutual hatred of Israel.

As for the U.S. President:

I don't know what I would do if I were President--glad it's not my job! It's pretty much a "no win" scenario for anyone sitting in the Oval Office of either party. No one wants U.S. soldiers back in Iraq, but then, if the U.S. Embassy should be overrun or the recognized government of Iraq falls because of insufficient assistance, many will scream "Why didn't the President do more!?".

And I don't think that's unique to our current President or his party. Politics has become so divisive in this country that a conservative/Republican president would face liberal/Democratic outrage just as much as the current liberal Democrat in the office outrages conservatives/Republicans.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

alexava......I take your response as a way of saying you can't think anything positive.

[Tigermike 3,425]

U.S. Military Sees Iraq Incapable of Uprooting Insurgents. Here's the link. http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/u-s-military-sees-iraq-incapable-of-uprooting-islamic-militants-1404413387?mobile=y&mod=WSJ_newsreel_5

[Tigermike 3,425]

ISIS Takes major oil field. I guess they aren't thinking about BBQ. But they have the fireworks thing going great. Here's the link. http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/world/meast/syria-isis-oil-field/

[AURaptor 1,137]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/02/justice/colorado-woman-arrested-isis/index.html

Colorado woman accused of trying to help ISIS