So if we moved on from Ellis J... (Edit we did)

[AU64 10,122]

While I think Muschamp would be a good hire, I seem to remember there being some mutual issues between him and Jay Jacobs at the time of his departure, so I'm not certain either of them would have any interest. I've seen the stats and heard the grumbling about teams with spread offenses having weak defenses, but I don't buy into it being a given that you'll have a weak defense by default if you run a spread or wide open offense. The defensive stats may take a hit with the players being on the field more frequently, but a top 30 defense paired with our offense should be sufficient in my opinion. Look at some of the defenses Spurrier had at Florida. The key is recruiting top defensive players, having a top notch strength, a conditioning program, and quality depth. We have the second requirement, but for whatever reason we've not had a high level of interest from the top defensive players and therefore do not have sufficient depth. Although I don't know the reason, I suspect it's either our defensive scheme, our defensive coaching staff, or a combination of both. I think a few recruits may have signed with other programs because they preferred an alternative defensive scheme. While at times it has appeared we've been close to turning the corner in our defensive recruiting, I'm not yet convinced that it's going to happen under the current circumstances. I'd welcome any comments.

I don't agree that we are a spread offense,we are running offense that does score quick and can put the D back on the field.But I do agree that we can have a good D along with this O.I also think you may be right that it is a combination of players and coaches that we are not getting it done.

Not the spread...the HUNH offense is the issue. We've had 3 top of the line DCs in the past 7 years...and their position coaches...with essentially the same result. Got rid of Roof because of the scoring defense...VanGorder a former NFL DC.....that should do the trick...things got even worse, now EJ and Garner with a solid SEC careers and they can't bring a bama type defense....so who out there is any better?

Our O is a "quick series and out" type of offense.... whether we score or fumble or whatever, the D is back on the field about about 3 minutes in most cases plus a couple minutes for a TV timeout.

JMO but from my little bit of research, just about every top rated defense gets their impressive defensive stats playing against traditional pro-style offenses that plod along ...giving their defenses plenty of time on the bench.

[cooltigger21 0]

While I think Muschamp would be a good hire, I seem to remember there being some mutual issues between him and Jay Jacobs at the time of his departure, so I'm not certain either of them would have any interest. I've seen the stats and heard the grumbling about teams with spread offenses having weak defenses, but I don't buy into it being a given that you'll have a weak defense by default if you run a spread or wide open offense. The defensive stats may take a hit with the players being on the field more frequently, but a top 30 defense paired with our offense should be sufficient in my opinion. Look at some of the defenses Spurrier had at Florida. The key is recruiting top defensive players, having a top notch strength, a conditioning program, and quality depth. We have the second requirement, but for whatever reason we've not had a high level of interest from the top defensive players and therefore do not have sufficient depth. Although I don't know the reason, I suspect it's either our defensive scheme, our defensive coaching staff, or a combination of both. I think a few recruits may have signed with other programs because they preferred an alternative defensive scheme. While at times it has appeared we've been close to turning the corner in our defensive recruiting, I'm not yet convinced that it's going to happen under the current circumstances. I'd welcome any comments.

I don't agree that we are a spread offense,we are running offense that does score quick and can put the D back on the field.But I do agree that we can have a good D along with this O.I also think you may be right that it is a combination of players and coaches that we are not getting it done.

Not the spread...the HUNH offense is the issue. We've had 3 top of the line DCs in the past 7 years...and their position coaches...with essentially the same result. Got rid of Roof because of the scoring defense...VanGorder a former NFL DC.....that should do the trick...things got even worse, now EJ and Garner with a solid SEC careers and they can't bring a bama type defense....so who out there is any better?

Our O is a "quick series and out" type of offense.... whether we score or fumble or whatever, the D is back on the field about about 3 minutes in most cases plus a couple minutes for a TV timeout.

JMO but from my little bit of research, just about every top rated defense gets their impressive defensive stats playing against traditional pro-style offenses that plod along ...giving their defenses plenty of time on the bench.

Ellis couldn't do anything with the HUNH when he was at South Carolina. Roof and Van Gorder had Chizik meddling with the defense. What do you propose we do get rid of the HUNH and go to a traditional pro style offense? I don't get what you are getting at here. Nobody is asking for an Alabama defense. But to not be in position and not be able to tackle is unacceptable. We are not able to make any adjustments until halftime. If Auburn can get a defense that will rank in the top 25 or so, we'd be fine.

[AU64 10,122]

While I think Muschamp would be a good hire, I seem to remember there being some mutual issues between him and Jay Jacobs at the time of his departure, so I'm not certain either of them would have any interest. I've seen the stats and heard the grumbling about teams with spread offenses having weak defenses, but I don't buy into it being a given that you'll have a weak defense by default if you run a spread or wide open offense. The defensive stats may take a hit with the players being on the field more frequently, but a top 30 defense paired with our offense should be sufficient in my opinion. Look at some of the defenses Spurrier had at Florida. The key is recruiting top defensive players, having a top notch strength, a conditioning program, and quality depth. We have the second requirement, but for whatever reason we've not had a high level of interest from the top defensive players and therefore do not have sufficient depth. Although I don't know the reason, I suspect it's either our defensive scheme, our defensive coaching staff, or a combination of both. I think a few recruits may have signed with other programs because they preferred an alternative defensive scheme. While at times it has appeared we've been close to turning the corner in our defensive recruiting, I'm not yet convinced that it's going to happen under the current circumstances. I'd welcome any comments.

I don't agree that we are a spread offense,we are running offense that does score quick and can put the D back on the field.But I do agree that we can have a good D along with this O.I also think you may be right that it is a combination of players and coaches that we are not getting it done.

Not the spread...the HUNH offense is the issue. We've had 3 top of the line DCs in the past 7 years...and their position coaches...with essentially the same result. Got rid of Roof because of the scoring defense...VanGorder a former NFL DC.....that should do the trick...things got even worse, now EJ and Garner with a solid SEC careers and they can't bring a bama type defense....so who out there is any better?

Our O is a "quick series and out" type of offense.... whether we score or fumble or whatever, the D is back on the field about about 3 minutes in most cases plus a couple minutes for a TV timeout.

JMO but from my little bit of research, just about every top rated defense gets their impressive defensive stats playing against traditional pro-style offenses that plod along ...giving their defenses plenty of time on the bench.

Ellis couldn't do anything with the HUNH when he was at South Carolina. Roof and Van Gorder had Chizik meddling with the defense. What do you propose we do get rid of the HUNH and go to a traditional pro style offense? I don't get what you are getting at here. Nobody is asking for an Alabama defense. But to not be in position and not be able to tackle is unacceptable. We are not able to make any adjustments until halftime. If Auburn can get a defense that will rank in the top 25 or so, we'd be fine.

But wait....Chiz was a top defensive coach ...in fact some have even suggested we hire him back. I'm in agreement about tackling and pass rush issues but let's look down a level in coaching and see who is actually responsible for teaching the fundamentals...not a single concern expressed about Garner or the other defensive position coaches....maybe that's where the changes need to be made....but I don't see anyone taking that view......or perhaps many people think that EJ is THE defensive coach and does all the teaching?

And I could be wrong but how much adjustment can you make in the 3-4 minutes between defensive series? ....and certainly the tackling issues don't get solved at halftime either. I'm good for some major improvements in the defense but just suggesting that we make them where the problems are caused....and not just fire the DC and leave what I think are the real problems, in place. ....and that we recognize some fundamental issues with the team's style of play.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Gus will not fire him.

[Dom1ni0n 51]

Who says a team that runs a variation of HUNH spread cannot have a good defense TSUN. Relative to Auburn, TSUNW, is defying this theory as we speak.

My processing core is struggling to compute how has developed a highly rated and respectable defense faster than

Freeze only got a year head start on Gus, and look at the development he is getting from his players in year three. Even last season Ole Miss fielded a top 50 defense despite some injuries to key starters. Traditionally, Ole Miss was never a player recruiting until Freeze arrived, and they've churned out better production from his staff on both sides of the ball most. Some will shrug this off as 15 minutes for Ole Miss, however I'm not sure that supposition is reliable anymore in the SEC Network era.

[WEagle24 56]

If EJ isn't our DC next year, I wouldn't mind Muschamp

[ChuckPets 0]

Except for the fact that Spurrier may looking for a DC at year end, and SC is home.

How many years does he have to work in AL to get state retirement vested ?

[Tiger 8,827]

I've seen a lot of grumbling on the 4-2-5 scheme on this board. I don't think we can Muschamp or any big names because we will not deviate from the 4-2-5. Gus will get someone to run that and I doubt someone who runs 4-3 will want to switch. I believe Gus ran 4-2-5 at Arky State.

[2010primetime 2]

when are we going to just admit that its not the coaches its the players. they play hard and give their heart but we haven't had a solid d since 06-07. we don't function as a whole unit at the same time on d. I think with another year and a couple more players we will be alright. QUESTION WHO ON OUR D OTHER TEAMS FEAR/RESPECT? THIER LIES THE ANWSER TO OUR PROBLEMS IMO. :-\ :wareagle:

[japantiger 4,051]

I think when it comes to this new day and age of sprad offenses and throwing the ball around the field on these quick routes as a lot of teams do, some coordinators who used to be very good coaches have lost a step. I don't know if the great defenses of the past could stop a whole lot of spread offenses because offenses a few years ago were usually pro style attacks with a couple of spread formations in the playbook. The best thing we will be able to do is either to have Ellis somehow adapt to this, or to find an up and comer that can do it. I'm becoming more and more aware of the change that the game is undergoing. Adaptation needs to happen.

Saban and Smart are supposed to be the best two coaches concerning defense in the country. The HUNH is a huge problem for them.

HUnh is not the issue...the issue is incompetence on the field against any offense; every time. We are 91st in passing D; and #54 overall for a D staff making nearly $5m collectively. Seriously; we controlled the time of possession yesterday...it is not a case of turning the ball over too quick. It is a case of not tackling, never, I mean never, ever; covering a receiver; never knowing where the ball is in the air....never covering a slant in 5 years; not once in 5 years...stop me before I go on ....

[weagl1 1,785]

I don't know if getting rid of CEJ is the answer but dang, we have to do something. I just can't see how in the world Gus can view what has been happening as acceptable. Our pass defense is simply horrible. The secondary not only can't cover they can't tackle either. The lack of coverage would definately be improved if we could get some pressure from the the DL but that ain't happening either. We used to have great defenses every year but it has been on the decline now for the last 5 - 6 years. Do the top recruits on defense just pass us by? Is the coaching that bad? Why do Bammer and LSU consistently have good defenses but we can't get back to where we were? Why can CEJ make good halftime adjustments but never seem to come up with a game plan for the first half? Maybe Gus needs a top consultant to help him make some decisions as soon as the season is over. Something has to happen.

[cooltigger21 0]

I think when it comes to this new day and age of sprad offenses and throwing the ball around the field on these quick routes as a lot of teams do, some coordinators who used to be very good coaches have lost a step. I don't know if the great defenses of the past could stop a whole lot of spread offenses because offenses a few years ago were usually pro style attacks with a couple of spread formations in the playbook. The best thing we will be able to do is either to have Ellis somehow adapt to this, or to find an up and comer that can do it. I'm becoming more and more aware of the change that the game is undergoing. Adaptation needs to happen.

Saban and Smart are supposed to be the best two coaches concerning defense in the country. The HUNH is a huge problem for them.

HUnh is not the issue...the issue is incompetence on the field against any offense; every time. We are 91st in passing D; and #54 overall for a D staff making nearly $5m collectively. Seriously; we controlled the time of possession yesterday...it is not a case of turning the ball over too quick. It is a case of not tackling, never, I mean never, ever; covering a receiver; never knowing where the ball is in the air....never covering a slant in 5 years; not once in 5 years...stop me before I go on ....

Oh I know. That's why I don't understand why people are acting like our offense is the reason for the struggles on defense. That just makes no sense. Saban has had trouble with teams that spread you out and play in space. and he's the best coach in the country or so we are told by all the "experts"

[DyeHardAllTheWay 0]

Things will only get worse if EJ sticks around.

[kd4au 1,145]

I don't know why people keep bringing up LSU as a good D?Seems I remember AU putting 41 on them and holding them to 7.And if you think the HUNH is the problem with the D being on the field to much why don't they get a three and out and get off the field?

[around4ever 4,139]

Is this our tackling instructional video?

Just kidding guys... well sort of.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

I don't know why people keep bringing up LSU as a good D?Seems I remember AU putting 41 on them and holding them to 7.And if you think the HUNH is the problem with the D being on the field to much why don't they get a three and out and get off the field?

We stopped them because they can't literally, can't throw the ball, that's the only reason. And the problem stated didn't have anything to do with how much we score, it was how much we give up

[Randman5000 4,229]

I know everyone likes muschamp but I could see him butting heads. He sometimes rubs people the wrong way and is he really the best guy for the job? He and garner need to mesh. He is proven though and would rock in recruiting

[AURealist 2,185]

I don't know if getting rid of CEJ is the answer but dang, we have to do something. I just can't see how in the world Gus can view what has been happening as acceptable. Our pass defense is simply horrible. The secondary not only can't cover they can't tackle either. The lack of coverage would definitely be improved if we could get some pressure from the the DL but that ain't happening either. We used to have great defenses every year but it has been on the decline now for the last 5 - 6 years. Do the top recruits on defense just pass us by? Is the coaching that bad? Why do Bammer and LSU consistently have good defenses but we can't get back to where we were? Why can CEJ make good halftime adjustments but never seem to come up with a game plan for the first half? Maybe Gus needs a top consultant to help him make some decisions as soon as the season is over. Something has to happen.

This question is best answered with a simple example:

DB Recruit: "I'm not really sure which school I want to attend."

College A Recruiter: "We'd love to see you in a College A jersey, son."

DB Recruit: "But the guys at Auburn are just swell. Is there a reason I should choose College A over them?"

College A Recruiter: "You wanna go pro, don't ya boy? They don't run the 4-2-5 in the pros. That's kiddie stuff."

DB Recruit: "So I sign right here on this line?"

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

No way smart leaves Alabama. Don't even spread that rumor

Really? Better assistants than Curby have left better jobs than working for Nick Saban. Diaz is a slime ball with a van Gorder record. Chizik is too perfect to hope for. Muschamp fine. Sadly I think Tubbs is burnt out. Garner would be a good DC IMO.

[wareaglexx 34]

Why is CEJ sitting in the Booth? he needs to be on the side-line so he can make adjustments during the game. it is one thing to give a voice-command over the head-set to try and adjust but it is another to be face to face and using diagrams to show the players what they need to do. The message he is relaying across the head-sets probably doesn't get translated properly. Maybe Gus needs to make he coach from side-line. Just my thoughts.

[meh130 1,043]

Manny Diaz comes to mind first.

He would jump at it.

Oh, and Manny runs a 4-2-5 at La Tech, so it should be an easy transition for the players.

One question, is Manny known as a recruiter?

[meh130 1,043]

I don't know if getting rid of CEJ is the answer but dang, we have to do something. I just can't see how in the world Gus can view what has been happening as acceptable. Our pass defense is simply horrible. The secondary not only can't cover they can't tackle either. The lack of coverage would definitely be improved if we could get some pressure from the the DL but that ain't happening either. We used to have great defenses every year but it has been on the decline now for the last 5 - 6 years. Do the top recruits on defense just pass us by? Is the coaching that bad? Why do Bammer and LSU consistently have good defenses but we can't get back to where we were? Why can CEJ make good halftime adjustments but never seem to come up with a game plan for the first half? Maybe Gus needs a top consultant to help him make some decisions as soon as the season is over. Something has to happen.

This question is best answered with a simple example:

DB Recruit: "I'm not really sure which school I want to attend."

College A Recruiter: "We'd love to see you in a College A jersey, son."

DB Recruit: "But the guys at Auburn are just swell. Is there a reason I should choose College A over them?"

College A Recruiter: "You wanna go pro, don't ya boy? They don't run the 4-2-5 in the pros. That's kiddie stuff."

DB Recruit: "So I sign right here on this line?"

Are you sure about that?

Big nickel package (4-2-5) emerging as NFL's hottest defensive trend (Aug. 8, 2014)

The 4-2-5 is nothing more than a 4-3 with the SAM LB replaced with a second Strong Safety. Most 4-3 teams in the NFL now have a 4-2-5 package with an second SS rather than a third CB. They will run this set on first downs to counter three WR shotgun sets which are now the norm in the NFL.

Every player in a college 4-2-5 can fit into an NFL 4-3, and college 4-2-5 hybrid safeties are not only a good fit for pro strong safety spots, NFL 4-3 teams want more strong safeties on the roster to go "big nickel" 4-2-5 when they need to.

We run a lot of man coverage, a lot more than we ran during the Tubs Tampa-2 zone-heavy days. The advantage a CB has coming to AU is they chance to play a lot of man coverage. The advantage a safety has to come to AU is play in a safety centric defense. The biggest weakness for a pro-prospect in any college 4-3 or 4-2-5 is the DE. You end up with DEs who are too small to play 4-3 DE in the NFL, and way too small to play 3-4 DE in the NFL, and might not be good 3-4 OLB prospects. That said, AU's track record with Corey Lemonier and Dee Ford is good.

[Randman5000 4,229]

No way smart leaves Alabama. Don't even spread that rumor

Really? Better assistants than Curby have left better jobs than working for Nick Saban. Diaz is a slime ball with a van Gorder record. Chizik is too perfect to hope for. Muschamp fine. Sadly I think Tubbs is burnt out. Garner would be a good DC IMO.

Not really going to entertain this

[meh130 1,043]

I've seen a lot of grumbling on the 4-2-5 scheme on this board. I don't think we can Muschamp or any big names because we will not deviate from the 4-2-5. Gus will get someone to run that and I doubt someone who runs 4-3 will want to switch. I believe Gus ran 4-2-5 at Arky State.

The 4-2-5 is a base alignment, not a scheme. Every base defense has multiple schemes. Many teams run alternate alignments which are similar to a base 4-2-5 alignment. Bama runs a base 3-4 alignment but has run more defensive snaps in a 4-2-5 alignment than any other.

The base 4-2-5 is one of the biggest trends right now in college defense, as a result, there are a fair number of 4-2-5 teams. In the SEC Ole Miss and USCe are both are base 4-2-5 teams. Ole Miss' 4-2-5 is a Top-5 FBS defense. Some teams call their defenses 4-3, but will put a hybrid LB/safety in the SAM LB spot. This is not unlike the Tampa-2 where a small, fast LB would be placed at the MLB position and drop back into a Cover-3 middle safety post-snap.

Most 4-3 teams are going to go nickel against spread teams, and trade an LB for a DB. If they substitute a safety rather than a corner, that effectively is a 4-2-5. Mizzou uses a 4-2-5 ("big nickel") as an alternative alignment against spread teams. Coverage schemes for a 4-3 team in a nickel and a base 4-2-5 team may be identical. Or they may be different.

CEJ's 4-2-5 has differences from other coaches 4-2-5. CEJ prefers man coverage pass defense, while I understand TCU's Gary Patterson (the father of the 4-2-5) prefers zone coverage pass defense.

[doc4aday 1,887]

If we could get him to part with VT, Bud Foster would be an excellent hire. Pat Narduzzi at MSU would be a solid candidate. Tracy Rocker would be a great hire. Rodney Garner would also be fine candidate. Rob Ryan from the NO Saints would be a fun watch on the sidelines. Who knows.

If the defense plays lights out the next 3 games, then all of this will be for nothing and so on we go.