So if we moved on from Ellis J... (Edit we did)

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

If the defense plays lights out the next 3 games, then all of this will be for nothing and so on we go.

So basically this is gonna still be a thing

[Tiger 8,827]

I've seen a lot of grumbling on the 4-2-5 scheme on this board. I don't think we can Muschamp or any big names because we will not deviate from the 4-2-5. Gus will get someone to run that and I doubt someone who runs 4-3 will want to switch. I believe Gus ran 4-2-5 at Arky State.

The 4-2-5 is a base alignment, not a scheme. Every base defense has multiple schemes. Many teams run alternate alignments which are similar to a base 4-2-5 alignment. Bama runs a base 3-4 alignment but has run more defensive snaps in a 4-2-5 alignment than any other.

The base 4-2-5 is one of the biggest trends right now in college defense, as a result, there are a fair number of 4-2-5 teams. In the SEC Ole Miss and USCe are both are base 4-2-5 teams. Ole Miss' 4-2-5 is a Top-5 FBS defense. Some teams call their defenses 4-3, but will put a hybrid LB/safety in the SAM LB spot. This is not unlike the Tampa-2 where a small, fast LB would be placed at the MLB position and drop back into a Cover-3 middle safety post-snap.

Most 4-3 teams are going to go nickel against spread teams, and trade an LB for a DB. If they substitute a safety rather than a corner, that effectively is a 4-2-5. Mizzou uses a 4-2-5 ("big nickel") as an alternative alignment against spread teams. Coverage schemes for a 4-3 team in a nickel and a base 4-2-5 team may be identical. Or they may be different.

CEJ's 4-2-5 has differences from other coaches 4-2-5. CEJ prefers man coverage pass defense, while I understand TCU's Gary Patterson (the father of the 4-2-5) prefers zone coverage pass defense.

Thanks for the explanation. I don't know much about the 4-2-5 but I feel like I have a much better understanding now

[AURealist 2,185]

I've seen a lot of grumbling on the 4-2-5 scheme on this board. I don't think we can Muschamp or any big names because we will not deviate from the 4-2-5. Gus will get someone to run that and I doubt someone who runs 4-3 will want to switch. I believe Gus ran 4-2-5 at Arky State.

The 4-2-5 is a base alignment, not a scheme. Every base defense has multiple schemes. Many teams run alternate alignments which are similar to a base 4-2-5 alignment. Bama runs a base 3-4 alignment but has run more defensive snaps in a 4-2-5 alignment than any other.

The base 4-2-5 is one of the biggest trends right now in college defense, as a result, there are a fair number of 4-2-5 teams. In the SEC Ole Miss and USCe are both are base 4-2-5 teams. Ole Miss' 4-2-5 is a Top-5 FBS defense. Some teams call their defenses 4-3, but will put a hybrid LB/safety in the SAM LB spot. This is not unlike the Tampa-2 where a small, fast LB would be placed at the MLB position and drop back into a Cover-3 middle safety post-snap.

Most 4-3 teams are going to go nickel against spread teams, and trade an LB for a DB. If they substitute a safety rather than a corner, that effectively is a 4-2-5. Mizzou uses a 4-2-5 ("big nickel") as an alternative alignment against spread teams. Coverage schemes for a 4-3 team in a nickel and a base 4-2-5 team may be identical. Or they may be different.

CEJ's 4-2-5 has differences from other coaches 4-2-5. CEJ prefers man coverage pass defense, while I understand TCU's Gary Patterson (the father of the 4-2-5) prefers zone coverage pass defense.

You seem very informed. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Could you possibly take a moment and spare a few more thoughts on some questions I have about the 4-2-5?

1.) AU's version of the 4-2 has been painfully ineffective against the pass. Why is that? You stated that CEJ prefers to run man coverage, but when I look in the secondary the coverage is so loose, it often looks like zone. Is there a lack of AU talent to cover the receivers m2m? Everyone writes their own playbook for the 4-2-5. Is it possible that the 4-2, used because of its flexibility, is just not being utilized correctly - that the coaching staff just doesn't get it or is trying to do too much with it?

2) I keep hearing that AU's offense style is somehow hurting our defensive capabilities. Is there anything at all to that, considering the AU defense actually plays better in the second half and that the Tiger offense usually dominates the time of possession?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[aubaseball 2,625]

Do people not understand that TT is a head coach? Why would anyone leave a HC position to become a DC?

[Randman5000 4,229]

Do people not understand that TT is a head coach? Why would anyone leave a HC position to become a DC?

You said it man

[ToomersRevenge 284]

Do people not understand that TT is a head coach? Why would anyone leave a HC position to become a DC?

Because we're Auburn! /s

I'm sure he's just aching to cone back after the way he left.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

During the radio broadcast I heard Quenton Riggins saying our D was not disguising anything to confuse Allen and not coming out of our base D at all and he hoped that would change but if Im not mistaken this was about half way thru the third quarter. I dont know how to coach football but if our sideline reporter can see that why cant the D coordinator??

[macauburn 6]

KIffin?

Rockers

[macauburn 6]

Jeff Casteel

[macauburn 6]

Jeff Casteel ,,Bud Foster

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

Bud Foster is pretty interesting but can he defend the spread though? I know he shut out tOSU earlier but Barrett really wasn't prepared then

[TRU2AU 0]

What about Dave Aranda?

[StatTiger 3,188]

Malzahn's style offense has not caused undo stress on the defense during actual games.

Average number of possessions defended per game over the past 25 seasons at Auburn is 12.8.

Auburn defended an average of....

11.8 possessions per game in 2010

12.3 in 2011

12.9 in 2013

13.0 in 2014

Average number of snaps defended per game over the past 25 years of Auburn football is 67.0

The defense defended...

68.8 snaps in 2010

71.2 in 2011

70.6 in 2013

70.7 in 2014

So the most snaps AU had to defend on an average exceeded the 25-year average by no more than 4 per game.

As Brother Bill Oliver once stated, regardless of how the offense performs, it is up to defense to get off the field in a timely matter. The primary issue on defense has been third-down defense during the past 5 seasons. Auburn's average national ranking in third-down defense is No. 50 the past 5 seasons. If there is any fatigue on defense it is related more to their failure in not forcing more "3 & outs" or turnovers.

"Three & out" pct on defense from 1993-2008 was 35.4%. From 2009-2014 it is 28.6%.

From 1993-2008 the defense forced a turnover every 29.6 snaps defended. From 2009-2014 it has dropped to every 43.1 snaps.

3rd down conversion rate from 1993-2008 was 34.1%. The rate from 2009-2014 is 37.9%.

Force more "3 & out" series, force more turnovers and play better on 3rd downs and the defense takes fewer snaps.

If the defense is being fatigued by Malzahn's style of offense, it should be showing up later in the game, which hasn't been the case. Combining the defensive numbers from 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014....

217.2 yards on 5.9 yards per play allowed during the first-half and 179.4 yards on 5.3 yards per play allowed during the second-half.

[kd4au 1,145]

I don't know why people keep bringing up LSU as a good D?Seems I remember AU putting 41 on them and holding them to 7.And if you think the HUNH is the problem with the D being on the field to much why don't they get a three and out and get off the field?

We stopped them because they can't literally, can't throw the ball, that's the only reason. And the problem stated didn't have anything to do with how much we score, it was how much we give up

My point was not how much we score it was that we gave up 41 to a&m and lsu gave up 41 to us,we are a terrible defense and they are a good defense ,giving up 41 points is not good defense by either.

[kd4au 1,145]

Malzahn's style offense has not caused undo stress on the defense during actual games.

Average number of possessions defended per game over the past 25 seasons at Auburn is 12.8.

Auburn defended an average of....

11.8 possessions per game in 2010

12.3 in 2011

12.9 in 2013

13.0 in 2014

Average number of snaps defended per game over the past 25 years of Auburn football is 67.0

The defense defended...

68.8 snaps in 2010

71.2 in 2011

70.6 in 2013

70.7 in 2014

So the most snaps AU had to defend on an average exceeded the 25-year average by no more than 4 per game.

As Brother Bill Oliver once stated, regardless of how the offense performs, it is up to defense to get off the field in a timely matter. The primary issue on defense has been third-down defense during the past 5 seasons. Auburn's average national ranking in third-down defense is No. 50 the past 5 seasons. If there is any fatigue on defense it is related more to their failure in not forcing more "3 & outs" or turnovers.

"Three & out" pct on defense from 1993-2008 was 35.4%. From 2009-2014 it is 28.6%.

From 1993-2008 the defense forced a turnover every 29.6 snaps defended. From 2009-2014 it has dropped to every 43.1 snaps.

3rd down conversion rate from 1993-2008 was 34.1%. The rate from 2009-2014 is 37.9%.

Force more "3 & out" series, force more turnovers and play better on 3rd downs and the defense takes fewer snaps.

If the defense is being fatigued by Malzahn's style of offense, it should be showing up later in the game, which hasn't been the case. Combining the defensive numbers from 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014....

217.2 yards on 5.9 yards per play allowed during the first-half and 179.4 yards on 5.3 yards per play allowed during the second-half.

Great post Stat,I agree it's the defenses responsibility to make stops and get off the field.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,674]

And I think the only time you can consider this a legit hurry up offense is 2010 because they had that balance passing.

[cole256 17,084]

Top Ten Defense's 2014 pick one of those lol:

1 Wisconsin 2260 251 1411 156.8 849 94.3 129 14.3 2 Clemson 2268 252 1450 161.1 818 90.9 166 18.4 3 Penn State 2406 267 1638 182.0 768 85.3 149 16.6 4 UCF 2466 308 1511 188.9 955 119.4 171 21.4 5 Alabama 2477 275 1669 185.4 808 89.8 125 13.9 6 Stanford 2530 281 1538 170.9 992 110.2 145 16.1 7 Florida 2672 334 1742 217.8 930 116.3 183 22.9 8 East Carolina 2715 339 1941 242.6 774 96.8 184 23.0 9 Michigan State 2803 311 1772 196.9 1031 114.6 211 23.4 10 Miami (FL)

What do they all pretty much have in common?

Let me answer that....they all run variations of a methodical pro-set that does not give the ball back 2 minutes after the offense gets it. Even Clemson has moved that way this year

Not a single HUNH offense in the bunch....well maybe East Carolina but they are in a different league.

We are closer to a pro set than Clemson is

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I still say you guys are dreaming if you think we're changing DCs after year two.

Could we see a shake up in the position coaches? Perhaps. But I bet you CEJ will be our DC next year.

[AubTiger14 0]

^ I agree it's unlikely we change, but if Muschamp became available it would be worth a phone call. Something needs to change whether it's Ellis or something else.

[cole256 17,084]

You're probably right. That's probably not a good thing though

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I think what it may show is that Malzahn doesn't believe CEJ suddenly forgot how to coach defense because of one bad head coaching year at Southern Miss. I tend to be in that same boat.

[AUbritt 611]

Is this our tackling instructional video?

Just kidding guys... well sort of.

It's sad, but having watched the video, it does look eerily similar to our D.

I really wish we'd just spend this whole week on really learning how to tackle.

[cole256 17,084]

Yeah you are a big Johnson guy it seems....defense is pretty bad though, somebody should be held accountable

[cooltigger21 0]

I think what it may show is that Malzahn doesn't believe CEJ suddenly forgot how to coach defense because of one bad head coaching year at Southern Miss. I tend to be in that same boat.

Does he know how to defend against todays' offenses. Has the football world passed him by? It does happen. I don't know but it does make you wonder. He may have a good scheme but if the players can't execute that scheme as he envisions it, then it's worthless. You have to tailor what you are doing to the personnel. That doesn't seem to be happening. Lots of trying to put square pegs in round holes here.

[bg5 536]

I have a question for anyone who says CEJ should or will still be the DC next year. Let me start by saying I am truely asking as a fan and I'm not saying he should be fired or not. I just hope to be enlightened. What do you see that would make you think that things are going to get better? I don't see it but I'm not an expert either. I am not sure getting Lawson back will improve things so much that we shouldn't make a change. By the way I hope your right and CEJ can turn it around I am just wondering what you think is going to happen that will change things from the way they are. Again I hope you see the tone of the question is truely just a question not a knock on anyones opinion.