So if we moved on from Ellis J... (Edit we did)

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I think what it may show is that Malzahn doesn't believe CEJ suddenly forgot how to coach defense because of one bad head coaching year at Southern Miss. I tend to be in that same boat.

Does he know how to defend against todays' offenses. Has the football world passed him by? It does happen. I don't know but it does make you wonder. He may have a good scheme but if the players can't execute that scheme as he envisions it, then it's worthless. You have to tailor what you are doing to the personnel. That doesn't seem to be happening. Lots of trying to put square pegs in round holes here.

He fielded top notch defenses at SC three out of four years he was there. His last season was 2011. It's not like he hadn't faced any high powered spread offenses in that span. And his ability to make halftime adjustments suggests he still has it.

[EaglesWest 2]

C'mon, guys, we've been flogging the same dead horse for years now. I don't care what package you run, we're talking fundamental issues AGAIN. And again, we dug a deep hole in the first half, but the defense held A&M to 2 FGs in the second half. So, fundamentals and the first half issues. What is it about what's changed since the mid-2000s? Our defenses haven't played a complete game since I can't remember when (maybe closest was the NC game in 2010?).

Let's lay off putting blame on the offense. If the defense that comes out at the half looks like 180 out from the beginning, there goes that argument. So, what's going on in that locker room at half time?

[AURealist 2,185]

Malzahn's style offense has not caused undo stress on the defense during actual games.

Average number of possessions defended per game over the past 25 seasons at Auburn is 12.8.

Auburn defended an average of....

11.8 possessions per game in 2010

12.3 in 2011

12.9 in 2013

13.0 in 2014

Average number of snaps defended per game over the past 25 years of Auburn football is 67.0

The defense defended...

68.8 snaps in 2010

71.2 in 2011

70.6 in 2013

70.7 in 2014

So the most snaps AU had to defend on an average exceeded the 25-year average by no more than 4 per game.

As Brother Bill Oliver once stated, regardless of how the offense performs, it is up to defense to get off the field in a timely matter. The primary issue on defense has been third-down defense during the past 5 seasons. Auburn's average national ranking in third-down defense is No. 50 the past 5 seasons. If there is any fatigue on defense it is related more to their failure in not forcing more "3 & outs" or turnovers.

"Three & out" pct on defense from 1993-2008 was 35.4%. From 2009-2014 it is 28.6%.

From 1993-2008 the defense forced a turnover every 29.6 snaps defended. From 2009-2014 it has dropped to every 43.1 snaps.

3rd down conversion rate from 1993-2008 was 34.1%. The rate from 2009-2014 is 37.9%.

Force more "3 & out" series, force more turnovers and play better on 3rd downs and the defense takes fewer snaps.

If the defense is being fatigued by Malzahn's style of offense, it should be showing up later in the game, which hasn't been the case. Combining the defensive numbers from 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014....

217.2 yards on 5.9 yards per play allowed during the first-half and 179.4 yards on 5.3 yards per play allowed during the second-half.

You saw my post asking about this? Your numbers confirm my own observations and logic, specifically, that a defense being over-driven would get worse as the game progressed, not better. Your numbers also confirm what many have been increasingly pointing out on this board: when looked at objectively, the defense is underplaying.

StatTiger, how do our >.500 P5 adversaries' defense numbers look when compared to those above?

[PVilleTiger 0]

I think what it may show is that Malzahn doesn't believe CEJ suddenly forgot how to coach defense because of one bad head coaching year at Southern Miss. I tend to be in that same boat.

Does he know how to defend against todays' offenses. Has the football world passed him by? It does happen. I don't know but it does make you wonder. He may have a good scheme but if the players can't execute that scheme as he envisions it, then it's worthless. You have to tailor what you are doing to the personnel. That doesn't seem to be happening. Lots of trying to put square pegs in round holes here.

He fielded top notch defenses at SC three out of four years he was there. His last season was 2011. It's not like he hadn't faced any high powered spread offenses in that span. And his ability to make halftime adjustments suggests he still has it.

Halftime adjustments don't help that much when you have already given up 21+ points in the first half. The disheartening thing about his defenses is that they seem like they have no clue what they're doing in the first half. Is he just a terrible game planner? or does he not even try to get a scheme together the week before the game?

[keesler 5,924]

Do people not understand that TT is a head coach? Why would anyone leave a HC position to become a DC?

Comical isn't it?

[keesler 5,924]

Could be that EJ has a game plan going into the game and when he see's its not working he makes adjustments at the half. The only time he really has an opportunity to get on the grease board and see his players and asst coaches face to face during the game is at halftime 'cause he's upstairs the whole time. IDK - just throwing this thought out there.

[mom2kid 216]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I think what it may show is that Malzahn doesn't believe CEJ suddenly forgot how to coach defense because of one bad head coaching year at Southern Miss. I tend to be in that same boat.

Does he know how to defend against todays' offenses. Has the football world passed him by? It does happen. I don't know but it does make you wonder. He may have a good scheme but if the players can't execute that scheme as he envisions it, then it's worthless. You have to tailor what you are doing to the personnel. That doesn't seem to be happening. Lots of trying to put square pegs in round holes here.

He fielded top notch defenses at SC three out of four years he was there. His last season was 2011. It's not like he hadn't faced any high powered spread offenses in that span. And his ability to make halftime adjustments suggests he still has it.

Halftime adjustments don't help that much when you have already given up 21+ points in the first half. The disheartening thing about his defenses is that they seem like they have no clue what they're doing in the first half. Is he just a terrible game planner? or does he not even try to get a scheme together the week before the game?

I agree, the adjustments should happen sooner. However, it does suggest that simply bringing in a different DC won't necessarily fix the problem and that the suggestion that the game has somehow passed CEJ by in 2 short years is offbase.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

It was EJ's defense that helped us be down 35-17 at halftime. Did you not see the big holes their o-line made by pushing our guys like they were not even there. That's the fault of coaching.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

This new style of play has left EJ in the dust cause he does not know how to stop it or slow it down. BTW, Ellis made that true-freshman QB look like a senior who's in the running for the 2014 Heisman.

[AURealist 2,185]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

Remember that big defensive recruiting issue AU had last year? AU really wanted a kid who had what it took to play at CEJ's Star position? One thing was discussed during that time that may be pertinent now. Professional football teams do not run defensive schemes out of a 4-2-5 alignment. If a kid wants to go pro, why would he want to spend four years learning and playing a high school defense? It's probably just as hard to find someone to play Gus' blocking back. Four years blocking instead of carrying the ball doesn't necessarily directly translate into a pro position.

Just a thought. I could be wrong.

[Tiger 8,827]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

Remember that big defensive recruiting issue AU had last year? AU really wanted a kid who had what it took to play at CEJ's Star position? One thing was discussed during that time that may be pertinent now. Professional football teams do not run defensive schemes out of a 4-2-5 alignment. If a kid wants to go pro, why would he want to spend four years learning and playing a high school defense? It's probably just as hard to find someone to play Gus' blocking back. Four years blocking instead of carrying the ball doesn't translate into a pro position.

Just a thought. I could be wrong.

Prosch was fantastic for AU last year and now he's a starting fullback in year 1 of his pro football career. Just to counter your argument about the H-back position.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

It was EJ's defense that helped us be down 35-17 at halftime. Did you not see the big holes their o-line made by pushing our guys like they were not even there. That's the fault of coaching.

CEJs defenses, even with the issues we've had, are still performing better than most of Auburn's defenses of recent years. Some defensive stats for comparison:

2010 (Ted Roof)

259.3 yds passing per game, 63% completion pct.

109.1 yds rushing per game

368.4 total yds per game

2011 (Ted Roof)

218.3 passing, 63.3%

189.2 rushing

407.2 total yds per game

2012 (Van Gorder)

222.9 passing, 65.6%

199.6 rushing

422.5 yds per game

2013 (Ellis Johnson)

258.6 passing, 57.9%

162.1 rushing

420.7 total yds per game

2014 thus far (Ellis Johnson)

256.9 passing, 57.9%

130 rushing

386.9 yds per game

I think this year is hurting because of losing Dee Ford and Carl Lawson resulting in zero pass rush. And unlike Roof in 2010, we don't have a Fairley-type unblockable guy on the D-line. I think a lot changes if we make QBs have to hurry more throws or take sacks. I also think Whitehead is a difference maker in the defensive backfield and him being out the last few games has hurt. But yet, even with the last 4 crappy games, the defensive stats are improved.

I just don't know that having a 4th DC in 5 years is the answer.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

This new style of play has left EJ in the dust cause he does not know how to stop it or slow it down. BTW, Ellis made that true-freshman QB look like a senior who's in the running for the 2014 Heisman.

Evidently he does, as evidenced by A&M only getting 182 yds of offense and 6 pts in the 2nd half. We just need that type of performance to kick in before halftime.

[AURealist 2,185]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

Remember that big defensive recruiting issue AU had last year? AU really wanted a kid who had what it took to play at CEJ's Star position? One thing was discussed during that time that may be pertinent now. Professional football teams do not run defensive schemes out of a 4-2-5 alignment. If a kid wants to go pro, why would he want to spend four years learning and playing a high school defense? It's probably just as hard to find someone to play Gus' blocking back. Four years blocking instead of carrying the ball doesn't translate into a pro position.

Just a thought. I could be wrong.

Prosch was fantastic for AU last year and now he's a starting fullback in year 1 of his pro football career. Just to counter your argument about the H-back position.

Not saying you can't go pro from those positions. I'm saying that you have a harder time selling it. I'll edit my post to read "necessarily directly translate" because it was mentioned that way during last year's Combine. Recruiting is about selling and "The pros don't run what Auburn runs", can be used against us in recruiting. Do you disagree?

[keesler 5,924]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

Very enlightened post here, especially the bold part.

When senior leaders show lack of discipline both on and off the field, it makes the coaches job twice as hard. When a senior leader questions his coaches and the discussion goes bad (Whitehead) then there are some issues behind the scenes. All I can say is these highly paid men are earning their money today - they a lot of equations to solve this week.

[AURealist 2,185]

This new style of play has left EJ in the dust cause he does not know how to stop it or slow it down. BTW, Ellis made that true-freshman QB look like a senior who's in the running for the 2014 Heisman.

Evidently he does, as evidenced by A&M only getting 182 yds of offense and 6 pts in the 2nd half. We just need that type of performance to kick in before halftime.

Of course, some of that 2nd half yardage and point reduction was due to aTm's change from hammer-down assault from land and air to a clock-milking ground game. And Auburn can defend the run.

[Tiger 8,827]

I would think that if anyone knows what issues are plaguing this team and this defense, it is Gus. I worried at the start because of the discipline issues we had with a few guys. Last year we were a focused and determined group that came together to change what had been a horrible and embarrassing season. This year we had to come out focused to prove 2013 wasn't just lucky and to return to the national championship game. But those early issues with some of the players, especially seniors suggested a lack of discipline. Then the issue with Whitehead suggested some dissension on the team.

The defense has tanked. Is CEJ not getting it done? I don't know. Are the position coaches not so great? Well, these guys teach fundamentals and techniques so it's fair to question why the dline can't get a pass rush or the DBs aren't getting in position, or the LB inconsistent play. As for talent and recruiting, I think we have enough talent to be a very good defense so i don't care for excuses. But I will add that our recruiting on defense this year is concerning. Folks keep saying that we will be ok but I think it suggests there may be a problem with how AU defensive coaching is perceived by recruits. We lose top talent to UAT, LSU, and this year, UGA. It's been noted at nausea that this year we are not getting the elite DE, DT, LB, and DB targets the year after coming off an incredible 2013 season. There is something there guys.

I trust CGM knows and will do something after the season.

Remember that big defensive recruiting issue AU had last year? AU really wanted a kid who had what it took to play at CEJ's Star position? One thing was discussed during that time that may be pertinent now. Professional football teams do not run defensive schemes out of a 4-2-5 alignment. If a kid wants to go pro, why would he want to spend four years learning and playing a high school defense? It's probably just as hard to find someone to play Gus' blocking back. Four years blocking instead of carrying the ball doesn't translate into a pro position.

Just a thought. I could be wrong.

Prosch was fantastic for AU last year and now he's a starting fullback in year 1 of his pro football career. Just to counter your argument about the H-back position.

Not saying you can't go pro from those positions. I'm saying that you have a harder time selling it. I'll edit my post to read "necessarily directly translate" because it was mentioned that way during last year's Combine. Recruiting is about selling and "The pros don't run what Auburn runs", can be used against us in recruiting. Do you disagree?

I don't disagree at all. I think you have a very good point.

On another note:

The discipline issue was alarming from the moment Mincy/Nick Marshall got busted. They are supposed to be senior leaders, and while I understand getting busted with pot doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world, Whitehead's situation was, I think, a bigger deal. Perhaps we need to get the Chizik guys run their course until they are out of the program since it is obvious he was not putting emphasis on character guys. But on the other hand Gus gets credit for having a huge part in building the team even when Chiz was here. All coaches have characteristics that show in their teams that are red flags. Under Tubs, while he had extraordinary discipline, he was susceptible to blow 14 point leads and shut the offense down in the 2nd half, and also lose a game he shouldn't (while also winning one he shouldn't) Under Chiz, it was undisciplined play on & off the field, along with putrid defense. Under Gus so far it has been, discipline on and off the field (penalties, law-breaking) and blowing leads due to sluggish offense for a quarter. I really hope this is not one of those uncorrectable things that is just part of the process of Gus building the program back up. We had a ton of success last year that made us believe we were ahead of schedule, but I think this season puts us back on that originally planned schedule to getting AU back to the top.

To be honest, in the long term plan, I think Gus getting NM from Juco was originally planned for him to be a bridge or band-aid to hold the offense together before the long-term guy, Jeremy Johnson, takes over. IMO Gus knew if he had JJ still committing, he just needed to buy some time with somebody that wasn't Kiehl Frazier or Jonathan Wallace to avoid playing a true freshman at QB. I think we see a more balanced (Gus' goal) offense under JJ and with Chandler Cox coming in we should have the blocking H-back needed to make the run game work without the huge zone read threat. We were just extremely fortunate that Nick Marshall has been an absolute stud running the ball and have been able to obtain a great deal of success even with NM's shortcomings as an all-around QB, even if he has played extremely well as this season as progressed. I don't blame the loss on NM, either. Just doing some big picture thinking.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

This new style of play has left EJ in the dust cause he does not know how to stop it or slow it down. BTW, Ellis made that true-freshman QB look like a senior who's in the running for the 2014 Heisman.

Evidently he does, as evidenced by A&M only getting 182 yds of offense and 6 pts in the 2nd half. We just need that type of performance to kick in before halftime.

Of course, some of that 2nd half yardage and point reduction was due to aTm's change from hammer-down assault from land and air to a clock-milking ground game. And Auburn can defend the run.

Not true. They didn't start that until the end of the game. A&M's 2nd half possessions, not counting FG attempts or punts.

1st - 4 passes in 8 plays

2nd - 4 passes in 8 plays

3rd - 6 passes in 12 plays

4th - 2 passes in 3 plays

5th - 3 runs in 3 plays (this was when A&M got the ball with 2:37 to play at their goal line)

The entire 2nd half, not counting FG attempts or punts, or the kneel downs at the very end, A&M attempted 18 passes in 34 snaps. In the first half, A&M attempted 14 passes out of 28 snaps.

They were not milking the clock with the run until it was at about 2 1/2 minutes to go and they were on their own goal line.

[cooltigger21 0]

Some of this is reminiscent of the back and forth we had over Tony Barbee and the basketball program. I don't mean his last year. I am going back to probably the two previous years. We had defenders wanting to give him more time and others saying his time had run out. I mean how long do you give a man before making the change? If we let CEJ stay and next year is a repeat of this year then there is another wasted year. Sometimes the stats don't add up. CEJ is great at halftime adjustments. Hey that's great except for the fact that the game has a first half too. The first half of a game is typically a disaster. I don't necessarily think being down on the field would make a giant difference. I remember Wayne Hall was usually up in the booth during his days. We had some pretty good defenses then. RG is down on the field and he and the other sideline position coaches can be getting their players taken care of. RG is essentially the assistant DC if he doesn't actually have that title. Fundamentals are lacking across the board in the linebackers and secondary. I would have expected some definite improvement from one year to the next. If we aren't getting top defensive recruits that just compounds the problem. Something is going to have to change. Now whether any coaches get moved out or around, I don't know. I just can't see another year making a difference for the positive.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Also, if you're wondering about the discrepancy in the number of pass attempts (I'm showing 32 attempts, the box score only shows 29), I'm counting two pass attempts that A&M made that were negated by penalties and one where he dropped back, was flushed out and sacked for a 1 yard loss. I included them because they still show A&Ms play-calling intent even if they weren't official on the stat sheet.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Some of this is reminiscent of the back and forth we had over Tony Barbee and the basketball program. I don't mean his last year. I am going back to probably the two previous years. We had defenders wanting to give him more time and others saying his time had run out. I mean how long do you give a man before making the change? If we let CEJ stay and next year is a repeat of this year then there is another wasted year. Sometimes the stats don't add up. CEJ is great at halftime adjustments. Hey that's great except for the fact that the game has a first half too. The first half of a game is typically a disaster. I don't necessarily think being down on the field would make a giant difference. RG is down on the field and he and the other sideline position coaches can be getting their players taken care of. RG is essentially the assistant DC if he doesn't actually have that title. Fundamentals are lacking across the board in the linebackers and secondary. I would have expected some definite improvement from one year to the next. If we aren't getting top defensive recruits that just compounds the problem. Something is going to have to change. Now whether any coaches get moved out or around, I don't know. I just can't see another year making a difference for the positive.

If there a Bruce Pearl-level DC just waiting in the wings to give guaranteed improvement? Because we're on our 3rd DC in four years already. What makes you think the 4th time will be the charm?

[cooltigger21 0]

Some of this is reminiscent of the back and forth we had over Tony Barbee and the basketball program. I don't mean his last year. I am going back to probably the two previous years. We had defenders wanting to give him more time and others saying his time had run out. I mean how long do you give a man before making the change? If we let CEJ stay and next year is a repeat of this year then there is another wasted year. Sometimes the stats don't add up. CEJ is great at halftime adjustments. Hey that's great except for the fact that the game has a first half too. The first half of a game is typically a disaster. I don't necessarily think being down on the field would make a giant difference. RG is down on the field and he and the other sideline position coaches can be getting their players taken care of. RG is essentially the assistant DC if he doesn't actually have that title. Fundamentals are lacking across the board in the linebackers and secondary. I would have expected some definite improvement from one year to the next. If we aren't getting top defensive recruits that just compounds the problem. Something is going to have to change. Now whether any coaches get moved out or around, I don't know. I just can't see another year making a difference for the positive.

If there a Bruce Pearl-level DC just waiting in the wings to give guaranteed improvement? Because we're on our 3rd DC in four years already. What makes you think the 4th time will be the charm?

I don't know Titan. I am not familiar with the people that are out there. It doesn't take a genius DC to make this defense adequate. I'm guessing CEJ gets another year. Ok I'm willing to go along with that. What then. How long do you give a man before finally pulling the plug 5 years 6 years 10 years? So unless there is a genius out there we never make the change. got it.

[war eagle6 0]

Some of this is reminiscent of the back and forth we had over Tony Barbee and the basketball program. I don't mean his last year. I am going back to probably the two previous years. We had defenders wanting to give him more time and others saying his time had run out. I mean how long do you give a man before making the change? If we let CEJ stay and next year is a repeat of this year then there is another wasted year. Sometimes the stats don't add up. CEJ is great at halftime adjustments. Hey that's great except for the fact that the game has a first half too. The first half of a game is typically a disaster. I don't necessarily think being down on the field would make a giant difference. RG is down on the field and he and the other sideline position coaches can be getting their players taken care of. RG is essentially the assistant DC if he doesn't actually have that title. Fundamentals are lacking across the board in the linebackers and secondary. I would have expected some definite improvement from one year to the next. If we aren't getting top defensive recruits that just compounds the problem. Something is going to have to change. Now whether any coaches get moved out or around, I don't know. I just can't see another year making a difference for the positive.

If there a Bruce Pearl-level DC just waiting in the wings to give guaranteed improvement? Because we're on our 3rd DC in four years already. What makes you think the 4th time will be the charm?

I don't know Titan. I am not familiar with the people that are out there. It doesn't take a genius DC to make this defense adequate. I'm guessing CEJ gets another year. Ok I'm willing to go along with that. What then. How long do you give a man before finally pulling the plug 5 years 6 years 10 years? So unless there is a genius out there we never make the change. got it.

la Monroe's d-coordinator did pretty good against aTm. I know some will say aTm looked vanilla on offense, but u also have to note aTm and everybody that can pass the ball saw what ole ball coach did to cej and his defense. Just a simple pattern to follow right there

[meh130 1,043]

Remember that big defensive recruiting issue AU had last year? AU really wanted a kid who had what it took to play at CEJ's Star position?

Yes, Rashaan Evans was a 210 lb soaking wet high school outside linebacker who wanted to be a pass-rushing OLB in college. Bama saw him as way too small to be a pass rushing Jack LB candidate, and instead told him he would be a pass coverage SAM LB candidate in their defense. We saw him as a pass coverage Star candidate. If he ever grows enough to be a Jack LB at Bama, or a pass rushing OLB in the NFL is yet to be seen. Meanwhile, Corey Lemonier and Dee Ford have shown AU can put pass rushing 3-4 OLBs into the NFL--even when they start as 4-3 DEs.

Oh, and in case nobody noticed, Justin Garrett moved back to WLB from the Star. Because we know once some kid in high school is placed in a playing position it never, ever, changes and they are stuck there through their senior year.

Professional football teams do not run defensive schemes out of a 4-2-5 alignment.

I could be wrong.

Seriously. Few on this board know what a "4-2-5" defense is, or how it is different from other nickel defenses. A 4-2-5 is nothing more than a 4-3 with the Sam LB replaced with an additional strong safety. This can be a situational defense, or a base defense. Traditionally, in the NFL, situational nickel packages add a cornerback, not a safety. The problem is CBs are first and foremost pass defenders. Safeties, especially strong safeties have more run support duties. The NFL, like college, has moved to more and more three wide receiver sets and shotgun formations on first down and on second and medium and third and medium. The 3WR shotgun is the new, base offense for many NFL teams. To defend it, you need an additional DB, but you cannot sacrifice run support, especially with a TE and RB in the formation, and you cannot call a time out when the offense breaks huddle and the QB is under center to bring in an LB, or if the QB lines up in the shotgun, to bring in a DB. The solution is to go to a nickel set with an additional strong safety--a 4-2-5. It is a situational defense, but it is not a traditional nickel package.

Here is more:

Big nickel package emerging as NFL's hottest defensive trend

Yes, a prospective HS LB being forecast as a strong safety will disappoint the player. But you know what? That happens a lot. Do you remember the era of the undersized LB at Auburn? Some of those college LBs were projected as NFL safeties.

Now with NFL teams wanting more depth at strong safety to run Big Nickel packages, I don't see a drawback by having to strong safeties on the field at the same time.

If a kid wants to go pro, why would he want to spend four years learning and playing a high school defense?

Please stop with the "High School Defense" stuff. The 4-2-5 (and the similar 3-3-5) did not originate in high school. Gary Patterson and Dennis Franchione invented the 4-2-5 in 1988 at Pittsburgh State, and Patterson and Dick Bumpass further refined it at Utah State in the early 1990s. I am not sure when CEJ adopted it, but he is also seen as one of the originators of the defense. Charlie Strong, while DC at USCe, created the 3-3-5, again removing an LB and replacing him with an SS, but playing the remaining LBs stacked behind the DL. Strong has since abandoned the 3-3-5 as a base defense, but he uses it as an alternate. Similarly, most 4-3 teams now have an alternate 4-2-5 package--LSU and Mizzou come to mind. Even Bama has a 4-2-5 package. They ran it against us in 2010, and I read the Bama defense has been in a 4-2-5 personnel set and alignment more snaps than any other set this year. So what good is it to be an LB when you sit on the bench because the second string SS is out there on the field in a Big Nickel package 60% of the snaps?

Could we have done a better job recruiting Rashaan Evans? Probably. We should have told him he could play as a Star as a Freshman, as as he added weight, we could move him to WLB as a Sophomore. We could have told him with his edge speed we might blitz more with him as a WLB. We could have also said if he proved to be our best edge rusher, we could move him to DE, and point to Lemonier and Ford as AU pass rushers who were drafted into the NFL. We could have pointed out if his genetics did not allow him to grow big enough to be an NFL pass-rushing OLB, he would get the kind of experience at AU which would lead him to be drafted as a Strong Safety in the NFL. Or, the kid may just have wanted to get away from mom and dad, and go a few hours across the state.

I think our biggest risks translating from college to pro are out DEs (a problem for all college 4-3 and 4-2-5 teams) and our TEs (who play little traditional TE).

That said, when I watch the NFL, I see few true FBs any more, and a lot of TEs in the backfield as blocking backs (very similar to our H-Backs). However, I rarely see a TE standing up with a 5-yard split from the tackle. But, I don't see many TEs or traditional FBs at in any colleges with a pass-first spread offense, so TEs and FBs are increasingly rare in college.