Cruz: I'm a Christian first, American Second

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Anyway, back to Ted. Ted is more invested in his phony "conservative" ideology than anything else. Ted is a "conservative" first. Christianity, America, whatever,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are all far behind. The Bible and the Flag are props that serve his purposes. Ted is the least genuine of any presidential candidate.

[TitanTiger 20,530]

Anyway, back to Ted. Ted is more invested in his phony "conservative" ideology than anything else. Ted is a "conservative" first. Christianity, America, whatever,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are all far behind. The Bible and the Flag are props that serve his purposes. Ted is the least genuine of any presidential candidate.

I can't speak to the man's heart and motives. But he doesn't strike me as the sincere believer some are holding him forth to be. I could be wrong about that, but it's just my impression.

On the other hand, I do think GWB was sincere in this regard. I just think he trusted the wrong group of advisors.

[japantiger 4,051]

It has been my experience that you are neither capable of intelligent nor honest discussion. You have wasted my time, too many times.

"we are the largest economy on the plant by a wide margin" Really? Wide margin? I suppose the IMF uses the wrong metric. Perhaps you do not understand our role as the largest consumer market? Perhaps when our middle class no longer exists, you will understand the futility of exploiting labor and believing in trickle down economics.

Zero corporate tax rate has been proposed and discussed in this forum. Guess who proposed it? No, not me. Furthermore, when profits are diverted to zero tax havens such as Bermuda, what else Is left. When such options are available and, tax avoidance is a normal business practice, what else is there? There is nothing facetious about it.

I do not totally discount the fact that companies move operations in the legitimate effort to maximize profits. However, I vehemently disagree that their motives incorporate the interests of the country, society, or even their own best long-term interests. I will not pretend that exploited labor, lax regulations, and no environmental protections are not primary incentives. Hope you enjoy living in a house with cheap Chinese drywall covered in lead paint.

Finally, you demonstrate no understanding of what a negative interest rate means or, the motivation behind it.

As usual, you want to make a political statement with phony, distorted, and/or absurd economic information.

This is going to be fun:

• Per the IMF, the United Nations, the World Bank and the CIA World Fact Book; our GDP is ~50% on the low end to 67% on the higher end bigger than China's; the number 2...now, I think in most peoples book that would be considered a wide margin. In my book, $7T is a wide margin...but hey, maybe you operate on a whole different scale than the rest of us.
  
• Who proposed it? And corporate investment is going to Bermuda. It's going to China, Mexico, etc. If you want to debate personal tax shelters, start another thread.
  
• I really can't tell what your point is in paragraph 3. So I'll answer it this way, as a business man; and the business men I know; I've never been in a discussion that said "let's go exploit labor"... that's not how business decisions are made...I have many times; and am doing this week; evaluating the differential in tax rates between Brazilian states and the rest of Latin America on how to move an operation....and in this case; I will likely move it to another state within Brazil due to guess what? Yes, that's right, tax incentives. I will not get better productivity....but I will save so much money by moving it that I can continue to scale my operating expenses and grow the business. Actual lower operating costs would have been obtained in Argentina...but, those nasty taxes got in the way....Have you ever been involved in business decision that hung on either of the three boogeymen you cite? I have not in 30 years; nor do I know anyone that has...not saying it could never have happened; but that is not why business people move a business operation. That would be foolish. Profit motive drive decisions...have you been watching Avatar?
  
• Why don't you educate me on what Negative interests rates mean then if I've failed to grasp the complexity....since I only made one passing reference to Japan's launching negative rates this week.
  
• My statement is not politcal. It is based on why capital moves between nations and states in the real world...based on doing it for a living...not in the mind of a guy whose posts usually consist of lame attempts to sound like Larry the Cable Guy...only dimmer.
  

[icanthearyou 4,463]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

[japantiger 4,051]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Good. You apparently cannot even read. You are blinded by ideology. Your views represent a "pig at the trough" economic mentality. You attempt to define economics with a "free market", short-term profit motive view of the world. You seem to want to redefine ambition and progress as pure greed. You are typical of those who possess the ideological idiot's view of capitalism. If we do in fact enter a global recession, it will be in large part, due to those who share your views.

[TitanTiger 20,530]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

[japantiger 4,051]

Good. You apparently cannot even read. You are blinded by ideology. Your views represent a "pig at the trough" economic mentality. You attempt to define economics with a "free market", short-term profit motive view of the world. You seem to want to redefine ambition and progress as pure greed. You are typical of those who possess the ideological idiot's view of capitalism. If we do in fact enter a global recession, it will be in large part, due to those who share your views.

Once again, no facts, just true-believer non-sense...and, I think you need to read the definition of recession...it's sort of the opposite of what you posit.

[japantiger 4,051]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

Please point out the factual errors...happy to correct if I have them wrong....but, as I am the only one who has actually provided any in this post, it's a little (ok, not a little, a lot) disingenuous to make a statement like that.

[Grumps 3,704]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

Japantiger was trying to give real-world reasons for his/her ACTUAL experience. How can you possibly know if they are accurate? Members of the forum giving real-world experiences and then explaining how that supports their positions could make this forum useful. Oh well...carry on.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

Japantiger was trying to give real-world reasons for his/her ACTUAL experience. How can you possibly know if they are accurate? Members of the forum giving real-world experiences and then explaining how that supports their positions could make this forum useful. Oh well...carry on.

When did accuracy matter? This hear forum is bout ideaologee.

[japantiger 4,051]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

Japantiger was trying to give real-world reasons for his/her ACTUAL experience. How can you possibly know if they are accurate? Members of the forum giving real-world experiences and then explaining how that supports their positions could make this forum useful. Oh well...carry on.

You're crazy talking Grumps...must be drinking for breakfast again....oh well, in India and Vietnam for the next two weeks to exploit the worker, destroy the environment and feed at the trough of capitalism.

[TitanTiger 20,530]

I would not look at GDP or, per capita GDP, as the only or absolute indicator. I would suggest the more widely used PPP (purchasing power parity or total value of an economy).

No one suggested there was any real investment in Bermuda. However, there is no doubt about the use of Bermuda to shelter foreign profits and, to even divert domestic profits to subsidiary shells.

Your reference to individuals having to pay to deposit in a bank is laughable. I doubt many individuals use the BOJ for their savings account.

Everything you post is political drivel or, distortions or lies.

I think we're done...still waiting on you to point out the lie. If you want to engage in a discussion on the merits of various fiscal policies then do it. If you want to fling pooh and pout like Cam after getting your clock cleaned; maybe you should go to the kiddie forum.

LOL.....you aren't going to convince him. Facts would just get in the way of his political drivel and lack of what drives these decisions in real life.

I find it funny that you think japantiger is the one bringing accuracy to the discussion.

Japantiger was trying to give real-world reasons for his/her ACTUAL experience. How can you possibly know if they are accurate? Members of the forum giving real-world experiences and then explaining how that supports their positions could make this forum useful. Oh well...carry on.

Actual experience is one thing, but when we're talking big macro-economic indicators, one guy/one company/in one industry's actual experience isn't really the critical data point that matters. I don't claim to be an expert here, but from what I do understand, I feel like ICHY is trying to look at a bigger picture while JT is cherry picking certain data to highlight and using his particular field as an appeal to authority when it really doesn't carry that kind of weight.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

"When did accuracy matter? This hear forum is bout ideaologee."

Finally, a poster I can identify with!

[icanthearyou 4,463]

"Actual experience is one thing, but when we're talking big macro-economic indicators, one guy/one company/in one industry's actual experience isn't really the critical data point that matters. I don't claim to be an expert here, but from what I do understand, I feel like ICHY is trying to look at a bigger picture while JT is cherry picking certain data to highlight and using his particular field as an appeal to authority when it really doesn't carry that kind of weight."

Precisely. The anecdotal use of personal experience is hardly compelling. Notice how often JT invokes "personal experience" in the attempt to validate his "opinion" or, as a substitute for a valid argument. Combined with his often, and obvious attempts to distort the truth, hardly make him credible.

JT has an obvious agenda. He supports hyper-capitalism. Don't get me wrong. Capitalism is great. It has lifted more people from poverty than any other single factor in history. However, the "hyper" version which seeks the power to totally dominate government and society is self-defeating. What JT preaches, is the problem, not the solution.

Again, it does not matter whether the government owns the means of production or, those who own the means of production own the government. Either way, power is concentrated, opportunity is limited, incentive is diminished, growth is stagnated.

Healthy capitalism is the product of competition, not "free markets". True capitalism rewards hard work and innovation. Phony capitalism rewards economic and political power. We should celebrate capitalist like Henry Ford. We should demonize "capitalists" such as J.P. Morgan.

Sustained economic growth requires both the increased capacity to produce and, the increased ability to consume. Therefore, relative equality and a sense of fairness are important features of functional capitalism. Anyone preaching unbridled "free markets" and/or unrestrained self-interests, is either a fool, an ideologue, or a pig who benefits by distorting capitalism, democracy, and worse, our sense of humanity.

[channonc 466]

Again, it does not matter whether the government owns the means of production or, those who own the means of production own the government. Either way, power is concentrated, opportunity is limited, incentive is diminished, growth is stagnated.

Quote of the year. This sentence sums up the whole debate IMO. If both sides would see that centralized power in anyone's hands is bad (govt or private), we might actually be able to get to a workable solution.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

"When did accuracy matter? This hear forum is bout ideaologee."

Finally, a poster I can identify with!

I had to channel my inner Itch. Damn!

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Again, it does not matter whether the government owns the means of production or, those who own the means of production own the government. Either way, power is concentrated, opportunity is limited, incentive is diminished, growth is stagnated.

Quote of the year. This sentence sums up the whole debate IMO. If both sides would see that centralized power in anyone's hands is bad (govt or private), we might actually be able to get to a workable solution.

So who is in a position to insure that workable solution? Who can bring both sides to a consensus? Obama, Trump, Hilary, Bernie, Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, Jeb, et al.? Who? Anyone?

[japantiger 4,051]

"Actual experience is one thing, but when we're talking big macro-economic indicators, one guy/one company/in one industry's actual experience isn't really the critical data point that matters. I don't claim to be an expert here, but from what I do understand, I feel like ICHY is trying to look at a bigger picture while JT is cherry picking certain data to highlight and using his particular field as an appeal to authority when it really doesn't carry that kind of weight."

Precisely. The anecdotal use of personal experience is hardly compelling. Notice how often JT invokes "personal experience" in the attempt to validate his "opinion" or, as a substitute for a valid argument. Combined with his often, and obvious attempts to distort the truth, hardly make him credible.

JT has an obvious agenda. He supports hyper-capitalism. Don't get me wrong. Capitalism is great. It has lifted more people from poverty than any other single factor in history. However, the "hyper" version which seeks the power to totally dominate government and society is self-defeating. What JT preaches, is the problem, not the solution.

Again, it does not matter whether the government owns the means of production or, those who own the means of production own the government. Either way, power is concentrated, opportunity is limited, incentive is diminished, growth is stagnated.

Healthy capitalism is the product of competition, not "free markets". True capitalism rewards hard work and innovation. Phony capitalism rewards economic and political power. We should celebrate capitalist like Henry Ford. We should demonize "capitalists" such as J.P. Morgan.

Sustained economic growth requires both the increased capacity to produce and, the increased ability to consume. Therefore, relative equality and a sense of fairness are important features of functional capitalism. Anyone preaching unbridled "free markets" and/or unrestrained self-interests, is either a fool, an ideologue, or a pig who benefits by distorting capitalism, democracy, and worse, our sense of humanity.

Wow. There are currently over $2T of earnings from US multinationals parked overseas that will not be repatriated due to the tax rate impact on these earnings. We have seen a 14% increase in US based MNC profit share move overseas over the last 20 years. Over 50% of the top US MNC profits are now realized overseas. How can you claim to know anything about how business works or capital flows and be so obtuse you are unaware of this? My anecdotes support the Macro case you idiot. Seriously, you guys just don't try or you think everyone is as witless and helpless as you. And somehow the answer to this is Utopian Socialism...Wow, just wow. .

https://www.treasury...ed-Feb-2012.pdf

"The foreign share of the worldwide income of U.S. multinational corporations (MNCs) has risen sharply in recent years. Data from a panel of 754 large MNCs indicate that the MNC foreign income share increased by 14 percentage points from 1996 to 2004. The differential between a company’s U.S. and foreign effective tax rates exerts a significant effect on the share of its income abroad, largely through changes in foreign and domestic profit margins rather than a shift in sales. U.S.-foreign tax differentials are estimated to have raised the foreign share of MNC worldwide income by about 12 percentage points by 2004. Lower foreign effective tax rates had no significant effect on a company’s domestic sales or on the growth of its worldwide pre-tax profits. Lower taxes on foreign income do not seem to promote “competitiveness.”"

As I have pointed out, the tax rates are pushing operations overseas...not for competitiveness, but because it creates easier profit opportunities. This is your benevolent gov't in action. How can you possibly be this uneducated on a topic like this and pretend to have any valuable to input to provide on a business discussion? Itchy, buddy, you are an absolute witless drone. The answer to everything is more gov't...making money bad...gov't control of everything good...but gov't control is the problem Itchy. They create these imbalances and incentives and then try to pretend it's not their fault when people naturally exploit them. Gov't created the incentive to move operations overseas thru NAFTA and every other free trade agreement and tax policy in the name of fairness and competitiveness. Well, they got it...US MNC's took the bait (and so do several million of the 25m US based small businesses). Gov't has a role in this...but not the one they are playing...

Have you ever allocated capital between regions, countries, towns, cities, states? Do you have absolutely any knowledge or practical experience related to this topic based on, well, anything you've actually ever done? You talk about this like you read it out of an Eastern European 70's workers pamphlet.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

I hate to be so blunt but, are you grotesquely stupid or, totally disingenuous? Did you read the paper you cited, even the title?

The paper very clearly states:

This is about profits. It has nothing to do with growth or, the ability to compete.

This has little to do with tax rates or trade agreements but rather, a 1997 tax law that creates the opportunity to divert profits to foreign shells or subsidiaries and, defer taxes on profits until those profits are repatriated.

The paper refutes your assertions and, has the opposite meaning of that which you are attempting to assign to it.

You are either incredibly dumb or, incredibly corrupt or, both. You want to change (pervert) capitalism from system in which companies compete, through efficiency and innovation, to a system in which political leaders compete for the support of the capitalists (not even capital investment). In your version of "capitalism", political power and economic power unite for mutual benefit. People, markets, countries, the environment, are simply disposable and here to be exploited. You are an enemy of democracy and capitalism. You are fundamentally detrimental to society and humanity.

[japantiger 4,051]

I hate to be so blunt but, are you grotesquely stupid or, totally disingenuous? Did you read the paper you cited, even the title?

The paper very clearly states:

This is about profits. It has nothing to do with growth or, the ability to compete.

This has little to do with tax rates or trade agreements but rather, a 1997 tax law that creates the opportunity to divert profits to foreign shells or subsidiaries and, defer taxes on profits until those profits are repatriated.

The paper refutes your assertions and, has the opposite meaning of that which you are attempting to assign to it.

You are either incredibly dumb or, incredibly corrupt or, both. You want to change (pervert) capitalism from system in which companies compete, through efficiency and innovation, to a system in which political leaders compete for the support of the capitalists (not even capital investment). In your version of "capitalism", political power and economic power unite for mutual benefit. People, markets, countries, the environment, are simply disposable and here to be exploited. You are an enemy of democracy and capitalism. You are fundamentally detrimental to society and humanity.

What a drama queen. Can't have an adult conversation...someone's always got to be the bad guy. Those evil capitalist exploiting the worker, raping the environment , blah, blah, blah. This is one of your best whines...I am detrimental to society...wow, what a hoot. I think the 4,031 people that work for me in 6 countries probably see that differently than you...but hey, let's not spoil the moment of your childish indignation. How about this, I have meetings with my team this afternoon here in India...how about I show them your post and see what they think about it? We have some great far reaching conversations on US politics; I am sure they would love to hear your opinion on capitalism and job creation. I'll report back to the forum on their take on your POV.

Now, let's see, you apparently still have trouble reading...I believe if you read what I wrote I said, specifically:

"As I have pointed out, the tax rates are pushing operations overseas...not for competitiveness, but because it creates easier profit opportunities."

Now, again Itchy, this is your government in action. It creates incentives to move jobs, companies and profits overseas....and then useful idiots like you blame the business; not the gov't that created the incentive. No business man wants to move a business overseas for the hell of it Itchy. That only happens in the movies...you remind me of Hillary...when asked who her greatest enemy was she said "half the American population"...well, her exact quotes was Republicans. But, that is what it means. This is cartoonish. While we differ on political philosophies, I don't consider any Democrat my enemy. You, and her and the rest of the useful-idiot crowd have to have an enemy though. We can't just differ on opinions...we have to be "dangerous"...a "detriment to society" ,....even humanity....destroyers of planets....wow, just wow.

Here's are two specific question, where have any of my posts indicated that " In your version of "capitalism", political power and economic power unite for mutual benefit." Please help me understand which of my comments would lead a rational person to this conclusion? Please show me...

Second question, which I've asked multiple times and you continue to ignore.... have you ever engaged in anything that would even tangentially be considered capitalism? Created a job? Made a payroll? hired and fired? Risked capital on a venture? Do you have anything that could be considered a working understanding of capital markets? cross border competition? or do you just get all your talking points from the Peoples Republic of Bernie pamphlet store? I would love to see, from your obvious vast personal experience; just how capital allocation really works in a free market and where I have it wrong.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

You are correct. I cannot have an adult conversation with a pathetic liar.

Love your fallback position, your "experience". Outsourcing and tax avoidance are very import, very beneficial to the country. Thanks for your service. BTW, I thought you were leaving?

[Grumps 3,704]

You are correct. I cannot have an adult conversation with a pathetic liar.

Love your fallback position, your "experience". Outsourcing and tax avoidance are very import, very beneficial to the country. Thanks for your service. BTW, I thought you were leaving?

You used to try to add value to this forum. I miss that. I hope and pray that you will be able to overcome whatever is making you so bitter.

[TitanTiger 20,530]

You are correct. I cannot have an adult conversation with a pathetic liar.

Love your fallback position, your "experience". Outsourcing and tax avoidance are very import, very beneficial to the country. Thanks for your service. BTW, I thought you were leaving?

You used to try to add value to this forum. I miss that. I hope and pray that you will be able to overcome whatever is making you so bitter.

He's been adding value this entire thread. He just isn't getting a commensurate response.