Gus is an average coach

[AUIH1 1,515]

24 minutes ago, Mikey said:

You don't get under my skin. It's just that, unlike most members here, your posts are so hateful towards Auburn that they don't deserve a polite response. I don't go to other sports boards but some here that do tell me that you are not very well thought of on other AU sites either.

I don't understand your hateful attitude towards Gus. Are you jealous because he's getting paid $7 million a year? Get over that, it's going to continue for a long time into the future.

I love Auburn University.  I graduated from AU in 1986. My oldest daughter graduated from AU.  I contribute money to AU every year for academics not athletics because I know the crap that goes on in the AD (I was a tutor for athletes in the 80s).   Did you attend and graduate from AU?

I do not hate Gus.  I believe he is a mediocre/average coach.  Thus far, I am right.  Prove me wrong.

 

wde   

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Man there is so many ways of looking at this it’s not even funny. I think AU was in a pinch when Malzahns deal was made prior to the sec title. Anyone could find something to complain about either way. What happens if we don’t sign him and he walks to Arkansas. Folks would melt over that as well. It’s part of it.

 

I personally struggle to see who we would’ve went after that would have more success than Malzahn considering the current state of the west and the rise of UGA. I feel like we are our own worst enemy. Should fear of not finding a better coach keep Malzahn here? No probably not, but at the same time, I just want some consistency for our coaching staff. Either way, Gus inking a 7mil deal means we will either have success or he will be pushed out and we will find another up and coming coach and go through their growing pains as well. Just seems to be our trend. Hopefully the new AD can shake it up!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

28 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

I do not hate Gus.  I believe he is a mediocre/average coach.  Thus far, I am right.  Prove me wrong.

That's easy...

me·di·o·cre
ˌmēdēˈōkər/
adjective
of only moderate quality; not very good.

av·er·age
ˈav(ə)rij/Submit
adjective
1. mediocre; not very good.
2. of the usual or ordinary standard, level, or quantity.

Of the 129 coaches currently coaching teams in Div 1, Gus is ranked number 27 for win percentage (in the hardest conference in Div 1, no less). That puts him in the top 21% of coaches in the country. That is, by definition, above average (as average would be 50%) and certainly qualifies as good, maybe not great, certainly not exceptional, but good without a doubt. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

That's easy...

me·di·o·cre
ˌmēdēˈōkər/
adjective
of only moderate quality; not very good.

av·er·age
ˈav(ə)rij/Submit
adjective
1. mediocre; not very good.
2. of the usual or ordinary standard, level, or quantity.

Of the 129 coaches currently coaching teams in Div 1, Gus is ranked number 27 for win percentage (in the hardest conference in Div 1, no less). That puts him in the top 21% of coaches in the country. That is, by definition, above average (as average would be 50%) and certainly qualifies as good, maybe not great, certainly not exceptional, but good without a doubt. 

Good is not getting your ass beat more times than not against your two biggest rivals. Good is not getting your ass beat in bowl games or the SECCG because you were not prepared against your second biggest rival or a team that had far less talent than you (UCF).  Other than 2013, Gus has been average.

wde

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

Man there is so many ways of looking at this it’s not even funny. I think AU was in a pinch when Malzahns deal was made prior to the sec title. Anyone could find something to complain about either way. What happens if we don’t sign him and he walks to Arkansas. Folks would melt over that as well. It’s part of it.

I personally struggle to see who we would’ve went after that would have more success than Malzahn considering the current state of the west and the rise of UGA. I feel like we are our own worst enemy. Should fear of not finding a better coach keep Malzahn here? No probably not, but at the same time, I just want some consistency for our coaching staff. Either way, Gus inking a 7mil deal means we will either have success or he will be pushed out and we will find another up and coming coach and go through their growing pains as well. Just seems to be our trend. Hopefully the new AD can shake it up!

Here's the thing... below are the coaches who are currently coaching and have a better record than Malzahn... who's going to jump ship and come to Auburn? Would they be as good if they were playing SEC competition week in and week out? If we couldn't get one of them, then we'd be getting someone unproven (a coordinator) or someone who has a worse record than Gus, likely in a lesser conference.

Chip Kelly    UCLA
Lincoln Riley    Oklahoma
Urban Meyer    Ohio State
Chris Petersen    Washington
Lance Leipold    Buffalo
Jimbo Fisher    Texas A&M
Nick Saban    Alabama
Joe Moglia    Coastal Carolina
Dabo Swinney    Clemson
David Shaw    Stanford
Kirby Smart    Georgia
Jason Candle    Toledo
Joe Moorhead     Mississippi State
Tom Herman    Texas
Bryan Harsin    Boise State
Mark Richt    Miami
Gary Patterson    TCU
Scott Frost    Nebraska
Clay Helton    USC
Brian Kelly    Notre Dame
Steve Campbell    South Alabama
Bobby Petrino    Louisville
Jeff Brohm    Purdue
Jim Harbaugh    Michigan
Mike Norvell    Memphis
Chuck Martin    Miami, Ohio

After a couple more years experience, Riley would be at the top of my list, but I doubt Oklahoma will ever let him go. I don't see anyone else on that list who has proven to me that they could win the SEC and maintain the moral spirit of Auburn football.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

Good is not getting your ass beat more times than not against your two biggest rivals. Good is not getting your ass beat in bowl games or the SECCG because you were not prepared against your second biggest rival or a team that had far less talent than you (UCF).  Other than 2013, Gus has been average.

wde

Again, top 21% of ALL coaches in Div 1. You can throw out anything else you want and it won't change the fact that he is out performing 79% of his peers, doing it in the toughest league in the country, and doing it while directly competing for recruits with the bama machine and now Saban's offspring in GA.

To continue trying to argue that he is not good shows personal bias against him. If you want to argue that he's not the best, go right ahead, you'd be right. Heck, if you want to argue he's not great, you can make that argument as well, but arguing he's not good is literally living in denial.

[AUIH1 1,515]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Again, top 21% of ALL coaches in Div 1. You can throw out anything else you want and it won't change the fact that he is out performing 79% of his peers, doing it in the toughest league in the country, and doing it while directly competing for recruits with the bama machine and now Saban's offspring in GA.

To continue trying to argue that he is not good shows personal bias against him. If you want to argue that he's not the best, go right ahead, you'd be right. Heck, if you want to argue he's not great, you can make that argument as well, but arguing he's not good is literally living in denial.

Excuses.  Take care

 

wde

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, AUIH1 said:

Excuses.  Take care

 

wde

You gotta do you, that's for sure. Have a good one man 

[vatz22au 142]

I can't believe you guys let this troll continue this thread to 17 pages!  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, vatz22au said:

I can't believe you guys let this troll continue this thread to 17 pages!  

It's how he vents. He needs an outlet. It's not hurting anyone so why not play along a little.

[AidiAU 1,270]

2 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

 

31 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

It's how he vents. He needs an outlet. It's not hurting anyone so why not play along a little.

But then you get all crazy spitting out facts and stuff.  

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

43 minutes ago, AidiAU said:

But then you get all crazy spitting out facts and stuff.  

Or you can look at facts differently.  Nobody should even come close to thinking that Mississippi State has the talent that Auburn has right.  In the past 4 seasons Gus has won 18 games in the SEC.  In the past 4 seasons Dan Mullen has won 17 games in the SEC.  This takes all of the comparison about not playing an SEC schedule out of the equation.  Who is coaching up their talent and who is not?  I think personally that with the better talent at UF, Mullen is going to be a force to reckon with.  The guy over the last 4 years has gotten just as much out of his players at MSU that Gus has gotten out of the players at AU.  Against the same competition.  Outside of Dak Prescott most people could not name 5 players that have played for them in 4 years.  Just something to think about.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

22 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Or you can look at facts differently.  Nobody should even come close to thinking that Mississippi State has the talent that Auburn has right.  In the past 4 seasons Gus has won 18 games in the SEC.  In the past 4 seasons Dan Mullen has won 17 games in the SEC.  This takes all of the comparison about not playing an SEC schedule out of the equation.  Who is coaching up their talent and who is not?  I think personally that with the better talent at UF, Mullen is going to be a force to reckon with.  The guy over the last 4 years has gotten just as much out of his players at MSU that Gus has gotten out of the players at AU.  Against the same competition.  Outside of Dak Prescott most people could not name 5 players that have played for them in 4 years.  Just something to think about.

Right. This tells me Mullen is a pretty damn good coach.

[AUIH1 1,515]

1 minute ago, SumterAubie said:

Right. This tells me Mullen is a pretty damn good coach.

Better than Gus no doubt.  But give me Gus over Mullen any day at AU.  Gus is a better Paul Johnson.

wde

[Gowebb11 9,321]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:33 AM, Tiger said:

My thing is you can still provide what makes AU special to these kids and also give them all the coaching that our rivals are. Does it have to be as cold-hearted? No, but it's a huge disadvantage for our program to throw a jelly fish in the tank while our opponents are a bunch of sharks, as @keeslersaid. 

 

Amen to this post. It is not an either/or proposition when it comes to fun and tough. Nothing is more fun and nurturing than having young people under your watch win National Championships. And turning them into multi-millionaires in the NFL isn’t shabby either. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

35 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Amen to this post. It is not an either/or proposition when it comes to fun and tough. Nothing is more fun and nurturing than having young people under your watch win National Championships. And turning them into multi-millionaires in the NFL isn’t shabby either. 

Yep. Dabo's doing all that family fun stuff, too.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, NorthGATiger said:

Or you can look at facts differently.  Nobody should even come close to thinking that Mississippi State has the talent that Auburn has right.  In the past 4 seasons Gus has won 18 games in the SEC.  In the past 4 seasons Dan Mullen has won 17 games in the SEC.  This takes all of the comparison about not playing an SEC schedule out of the equation.  Who is coaching up their talent and who is not?  I think personally that with the better talent at UF, Mullen is going to be a force to reckon with.  The guy over the last 4 years has gotten just as much out of his players at MSU that Gus has gotten out of the players at AU.  Against the same competition.  Outside of Dak Prescott most people could not name 5 players that have played for them in 4 years.  Just something to think about.

I was about to be all, MSU doesn't have to play uga every year, but then I remember that uga sucked the last 4 years until this year, and this year was the first time we beat them since 2013. So nevermind. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I was about to be all, MSU doesn't have to play uga every year, but then I remember that uga sucked the last 4 years until this year, and this year was the first time we beat them since 2013. So nevermind. 

They did play them once in the last 4 years and lost.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yep. Dabo's doing all that family fun stuff, too.

Yup... that's why I've grown to respect him, even though he made an a** of himself after beating us a few years back. Jury is still out if he could pull off the same feat in the SEC. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Again, top 21% of ALL coaches in Div 1. You can throw out anything else you want and it won't change the fact that he is out performing 79% of his peers, doing it in the toughest league in the country, and doing it while directly competing for recruits with the bama machine and now Saban's offspring in GA.

To continue trying to argue that he is not good shows personal bias against him. If you want to argue that he's not the best, go right ahead, you'd be right. Heck, if you want to argue he's not great, you can make that argument as well, but arguing he's not good is literally living in denial.

I’m not saying Gus cannot be elite. I’m just worried that Gus has a higher baseline and a lower ceiling without the high octane 2013 offenses. I would like to see him break though again. He almost broke through last year until he threw the same gameplan at UGA again. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

I’m not saying Gus cannot be elite. I’m just worried that Gus has a higher baseline and a lower ceiling without the high octane 2013 offenses. I would like to see him break though again. He almost broke through last year until he threw the same gameplan at UGA again. 

You could be right. If I'm being 100% honest, I don't think, as a head coach, Gus will ever be more than the talent he has on his roster. I think as an OC he had the ability to make his team outperform their talent, because he was able to put so much time into game planning and scheming. To get back to that, we're probably going to need an OC with similar skills and a similar drive. I don't have a clue one way or another if Chip is that guy.

As much as I wish he would have come into the SEC Championship game with a whole new game plan, I also think if Kerryon had been healthy we would have won... possibly easily. I firmly believe that, when healthy, we were the better team. Gus develops a really powerful offense around the players he has... and when he loses a key player or two, it all falls apart. Maybe... no, hopefully... this year he will learn to build an offense that includes the depth of the team.

[Strychnine 1,802]

11 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yup... that's why I've grown to respect him, even though he made an a** of himself after beating us a few years back. Jury is still out if he could pull off the same feat in the SEC. 

 

Dabo's remark after the 2011 game, which I assume is what you are referring to, did not really bother me much.  I just thought of it as a statement made by an emotional human after a huge and symbolic win to him.  I put it in the same category as Gus' "whipped the dog crap out of them" after the Georgia game.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Dabo's remark after the 2011 game, which I assume is what you are referring to, did not really bother me much.  I just thought of it as a statement made by an emotional human after a huge and symbolic win to him.  I put it in the same category as Gus' "whipped the dog crap out of them" after the Georgia game.

I can't put it in that category because he invoked the name of another school that wasn't part of the game. Not only did it come across as a petty bammer thing to do, but it also served to minimize his team by, in a way, giving bama credit for their win. It was low class... but he was also a pretty new head coach at the time and he has matured.

[Strychnine 1,802]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

I can't put it in that category because he invoked the name of another school that wasn't part of the game. Not only did it come across as a petty bammer thing to do, but it also served to minimize his team by, in a way, giving bama credit for their win. It was low class... but he was also a pretty new head coach at the time and he has matured.

 

Given time to ponder his response at a less emotional moment, I suspect he would have said something different.  I too think it was low class, but I can overlook such remarks when made in moments like that.  Had he said it the following Wednesday during a press conference, my opinion would be completely different.

[McLoofus 35,182]

23 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You could be right. If I'm being 100% honest, I don't think, as a head coach, Gus will ever be more than the talent he has on his roster. I think as an OC he had the ability to make his team outperform their talent, because he was able to put so much time into game planning and scheming. To get back to that, we're probably going to need an OC with similar skills and a similar drive. I don't have a clue one way or another if Chip is that guy.

As much as I wish he would have come into the SEC Championship game with a whole new game plan, I also think if Kerryon had been healthy we would have won... possibly easily. I firmly believe that, when healthy, we were the better team. Gus develops a really powerful offense around the players he has... and when he loses a key player or two, it all falls apart. Maybe... no, hopefully... this year he will learn to build an offense that includes the depth of the team.

Personally, I would never ask him to be. 

I only ask that he get close to maximizing the talent that he *does* have. I don't think that's been done recently. It clearly was in 2013. (On the offensive side of the ball... and defense wasn't that shabby down the stretch, and was pretty good the first half of 2014... but I digress...)

Big agree on the OC part. Hopefully we've got him, and he can be crazy successful, and can move on to a better job, and then we can find another one, and Gus will let him do his thing...