Gus is an average coach

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Yup... and most teams struggle and often lose when it happens. I pointed that out and you questioned why we were talking about other teams because it didn't fit your agenda.

You have an interesting definition of facts. We've beaten several teams with equivalent talent. We've also lost to teams with less talent. Once again, it's not our offense... some of it is game planning and some of it is personnel. We have one of the most prolific offenses in the NCAA.

See... now your flip flopping... from the moment this discussion started, I said our two issues were a lack of plan b and not having players ready to fill in (coaching decisions and game planning). Yet you argued that it was our offense which is "ineffective against good defenses". Now your agreeing with my original statement and pretending that you are somehow correcting my thinking.

Ah, the 2016 Clemson game. That had nothing to do with our offense being ineffective against good defenses. That had everything to do with having literally no game plan going into the game. We never ran our offense in that game. To this day, I don't know a single person who knows what we were doing.

I totally agree with that statement.

The rest of it I see as a lot of generalities that ignored the details of the games that were played. Saying things like "we are a deep ball and WR screen team" totally ignores the fact that we did A LOT more than that. Heck, our best receiver, while he did get a decent amount of screens, caught balls all over the field. And while Hastings had a few good long balls, most of his action was over the middle.  It's like you see the things that annoy you and totally forget about the rest of the game.

Yes, we lacked an answer when the running game was slowed down because the running game was slowed down by our #1 back being hurt and no one being ready to step up in his place.

Yes, Stidham was running for his life, because the line wasn't protecting him and/or the receivers weren't getting open. That's also part of why we had no one to fill in for Kerryon, because even when he was hurt, he was still our best blocker. That's not a flaw in the overall scheme, that's lack of execution.

Here's the thing, you can call plays all day long, but if you don't have the players who are both ready and talented enough to execute those calls they aren't going to be successful.

So I go back to my original statement. Our offense is not an issue against good defenses, our lack of having a plan b when something doesn't go right and our lack of having back-up players ready to go if the starter goes down are the issues we need to fix.

dude for the love of all things holy....gameplanning and play designs ARE a part of our offense.  Furthermore please show me outside of UGA game 1 and Bama this year where we have beaten a team with equal talent in 3 years.  I am waiting.

[WFE12 9,191]

I know this is equestrian but I love this guy's attitude. I want our football coach to have this confidence. Gus showed it a bit as we know after the LSU game but had to get his butt handled for it to happen.

[toddc 13,194]

3 hours ago, WFE12 said:

I know this is equestrian but I love this guy's attitude. I want our football coach to have this confidence. Gus showed it a bit as we know after the LSU game but had to get his butt handled for it to happen.

I liked Gus’s attitude after beating Georgia this past Year, “We beat the dog crap out of them “!

[Mikey 16,600]

Poll: The title of this thread should be changed to:

1)Just another bash Gus thread

2)Just another premature meltdown thread

3)I'm a better coach and know more football than Gus but no P5 team will hire me

I'm leaning towards 3. What say y'all?

[GwillMac6 20,678]

3 hours ago, WFE12 said:

I know this is equestrian but I love this guy's attitude. I want our football coach to have this confidence. Gus showed it a bit as we know after the LSU game but had to get his butt handled for it to happen.

If Gus had Bruce Pearls attitude and swagger we would have at least 1 more sec title and 2 more 10 win seasons. Yes. I really do believe this. 

[toddc 13,194]

48 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Poll: The title of this thread should be changed to:

1)Just another bash Gus thread

2)Just another premature meltdown thread

3)I'm a better coach and know more football than Gus but no P5 team will hire me

I'm leaning towards 3. What say y'all?

I believe the OP was just a fishing expedition to see what fish would take the bait, and I’ve been surprised so many got caught and fought hard to stay on this troller’s line! Post didn’t seem to be done in the Auburn spirit of forum decorum!!! 

This is how I posted about this thread about seven pages ago!

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 4/23/2018 at 10:29 PM, DAG said:

Exactly and their team lost in OT in the playoff semifinals , correct? I consider the things we complain about to be marginal when you have fans who expect championships. 

The OU people I know recovery very quickly though and go into optimist mode for the coming season. I don't know any that spend months fearing an opening game like people at Auburn can do. Course I don't patrol OU boards.

I can tell you though that when their dog runs over there little kid and drags him, and you tell them they should of named the dog Bo instead of Boz..... you will be asked to leave.

[DAG 33,983]

5 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

The OU people I know recovery very quickly though and go into optimist mode for the coming season. I don't know any that spend months fearing an opening game like people at Auburn can do. Course I don't patrol OU boards.

I can tell you though that when their dog runs over there little kid and drags him, and you tell them they should of named the dog Bo instead of Boz..... you will be asked to leave.

As they shouldn’t . They should feel confident going into every game as we should. I will say that they expect a big 12 championship and playoff appearance every year. Most of our fans just want consistent play. I think that is fair lol.

[GwillMac6 20,678]

7 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

The OU people I know recovery very quickly though and go into optimist mode for the coming season. I don't know any that spend months fearing an opening game like people at Auburn can do. Course I don't patrol OU boards.

I can tell you though that when their dog runs over there little kid and drags him, and you tell them they should of named the dog Bo instead of Boz..... you will be asked to leave.

Well when you have 15 ten win seasons since the year 2000 you tend to bounce back pretty quickly and expect and DEMAND greatness and excellence year in year out. There is a reason JABA is a negative real thing attached to AU football. I mean we are over here JUST WANTING FRICKIN BACK TO BACK ten win seasons for the first time since the late 80's for goodness sake. Auburns highs are as high as most of the blue blood programs. Unfortunately and this is where we lose ground to them our lows are like that of a ole miss or miss st program. A "down" season for Oklahoma is still 9 or 10 wins. That needs to be our base. Unfortunately when we have a down year WE REALLY have a down year. 7-6, 8-5 you name it. It happens to us way to often sandwiched around our magical years.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

6 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Well when you have 15 ten win seasons since the year 2000 you tend to bounce back pretty quickly and expect and DEMAND greatness and excellence year in year out. There is a reason JABA is a negative real thing attached to AU football. I mean we are over here JUST WANTING FRICKIN BACK TO BACK ten win seasons for the first time since the late 80's for goodness sake. Auburns highs are as high as most of the blue blood programs. Unfortunately and this is where we lose ground to them our lows are like that of a ole miss or miss st program. A "down" season for Oklahoma is still 9 or 10 wins. That needs to be our base. Unfortunately when we have a down year WE REALLY have a down year. 7-6, 8-5 you name it. It happens to us way to often sandwiched around our magical years.

They did not freak out and believe they would never win a bowl game under Bob ever again either when they went 1-5 over a stretch including a loss to Boise State.

And OU has had those demands since the days of Bud Wilkerson, they are exactly like Alabama.

Hell, even with Blake the OU people I knew didn't write the next season off until it at least started.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

As they shouldn’t . They should feel confident going into every game as we should. I will say that they expect a big 12 championship and playoff appearance every year. Most of our fans just want consistent play. I think that is fair lol.

I have no issues with wanting consistent play and I am completely on board with that.

I hated the entire Tuberville OCC games are preseason games and lose them as much as the next Auburn fan/grad/student. I didn't spend 8 months on a daily basis going ok, we are going to lose game one and Tuberville is gonna say it didn't count though either lol.

Guess I just maintained my athlete thinking of if you walk into the stadium believing you are gonna lose, well you already lost.

I'm not saying your doing that btw. Need to hit you up on some earlier posts I read at work that you made cause you have some very well balanced and fair points regarding issues/situations that could improve and distribution of want and responsiblitly.

[GwillMac6 20,678]

41 minutes ago, Texan4Auburn said:

They did not freak out and believe they would never win a bowl game under Bob ever again either when they went 1-5 over a stretch including a loss to Boise State.

And OU has had those demands since the days of Bud Wilkerson, they are exactly like Alabama.

Hell, even with Blake the OU people I knew didn't write the next season off until it at least started.

Not gonna lie not really what I was looking for in a response for you! Wanted more of a Auburn perspective answer and how you agree with me that we need our down years to be 9 or 10 wins. PLUS FOR THE LOVE OF PAT DYE we need to string together back to back 10 win seasons! lol. That is what I was looking for. You just went a whole other direction and I was not feeling it! haha. BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  O and to finally respond to the points in your post OF COURSE they did not freak out. They are frickin OU!! They expect the best. We are Auburn we expect the worse. REMEMBER (WAIT HOW COULD YOU FORGET WHEN WE OUR BEATEN OVER THE HEAD WITH IT! LOL) Our own fanbase rather be the underdog than the favorite. Schools like oklahoma cherish being the top dog.

 

[mom2kid 216]

On 4/24/2018 at 12:13 AM, lionheartkc said:

Boosters for every team do pay players. There are a few, however, whow have turned buying players into an artform, and we now recruit directly against two of the biggest offenders.

And don’t think Pruitt hasn’t taking the artform to UT.  I tire of people who say all teams do it including us.  If so, we’re bad at it because we come in 2nd on so many recruits.  We will see this next week where we land on some of these recruiting battles.  We can then revisit some of our opinion of Gus and staff.  We need to start leveling the talent level with this class or we will be perennial #2/3 in SEC

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 hours ago, Texan4Auburn said:

They did not freak out and believe they would never win a bowl game under Bob ever again either when they went 1-5 over a stretch including a loss to Boise State.

But that's the point. They knew that was an aberration because it was.

A 1-5 start would be an aberration for us, too, but not by as much. 2015 came only 3 years after 2012, which came only 4 years after 2008, which came only 5 years after 2003, which came only 5 years after 1998. Going back 20 years now, we're good for a meltdown season at least every 5 years, and it's not like we've won 10 games in most of the seasons in between.

Our best run was from '04-'06. That was over 10 years ago. 

Auburn fans are justified in waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because, historically, it always does. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

Poll: The title of this thread should be changed to:

1)Just another bash Gus thread

2)Just another premature meltdown thread

3)I'm a better coach and know more football than Gus but no P5 team will hire me

I'm leaning towards 3. What say y'all?

Man, I wish I knew who this perfect coach and football team you pull for are, because it sounds fun and I wish I could pull for them, too. Unfortunately, my coach and team lost 4 games last season, 5 games the year before, and 6 games the year before that. Which means they have things they can get better at doing. 

I realize an Auburn football forum is a ridiculous place for fans to talk about what those things might be, but until you offer a better solution, we'll be here doing this. But keep fighting the good fight. 

[bigbird 60,525]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

Poll: The title of this thread should be changed to:

1)Just another bash Gus thread

2)Just another premature meltdown thread

3)I'm a better coach and know more football than Gus but no P5 team will hire me

I'm leaning towards 3. What say y'all?

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

47 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

But that's the point. They knew that was an aberration because it was.

A 1-5 start would be an aberration for us, too, but not by as much. 2015 came only 3 years after 2012, which came only 4 years after 2008, which came only 5 years after 2003, which came only 5 years after 1998. Going back 20 years now, we're good for a meltdown season at least every 5 years, and it's not like we've won 10 games in most of the seasons in between.

Our best run was from '04-'06. That was over 10 years ago. 

Auburn fans are justified in waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because, historically, it always does. 

 

Consistently.

[keesler 5,924]

18 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

The rest of it I see as a lot of generalities that ignored the details of the games that were played. Saying things like "we are a deep ball and WR screen team" totally ignores the fact that we did A LOT more than that. Heck, our best receiver, while he did get a decent amount of screens, caught balls all over the field. And while Hastings had a few good long balls, most of his action was over the middle.  It's like you see the things that annoy you and totally forget about the rest of the game.

Yes, we lacked an answer when the running game was slowed down because the running game was slowed down by our #1 back being hurt and no one being ready to step up in his place.

Yes, Stidham was running for his life, because the line wasn't protecting him and/or the receivers weren't getting open. That's also part of why we had no one to fill in for Kerryon, because even when he was hurt, he was still our best blocker. That's not a flaw in the overall scheme, that's lack of execution.

Here's the thing, you can call plays all day long, but if you don't have the players who are both ready and talented enough to execute those calls they aren't going to be successful.

So I go back to my original statement. Our offense is not an issue against good defenses, our lack of having a plan b when something doesn't go right and our lack of having back-up players ready to go if the starter goes down are the issues we need to fix.

If a coach (an offensive genius) forms a game plan and chooses to call in plays when he doesn't have the talent and doesn't have his players trained and prepared to execute his plan then the coach has failed.  Any offensive mind in the profession has the mental capacity to tailor his scheme, play calling, and game plan to fit his players talent level and their level of preparedness.   Those are his players, his scheme, his game plan, and as a highly paid SEC coach he should be able to adapt and evolve to an offensive plan that is productive.

Any offense will flounder against top shelf defenses, but blaming the lack of offensive production on poor execution over and over and over is asinine.  Modify the damn offense if your own people can't execute it!

 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

Very well stated.  If the play calls and game plan are flawed then there will always be poor execution.  You are asking players to do something that is bound for failure because the Defense has adjusted to stop certain things.  Rather than keep calling the same thing over and over again as a coach sometimes you MUST adjust to what the defense is doing.  Just because I tell you to drive up the wrong side of the interstate does not mean that you will have success doing it as long as you execute the game plan properly.  

[DAG 33,983]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Man, I wish I knew who this perfect coach and football team you pull for are, because it sounds fun and I wish I could pull for them, too. Unfortunately, my coach and team lost 4 games last season, 5 games the year before, and 6 games the year before that. Which means they have things they can get better at doing. 

I realize an Auburn football forum is a ridiculous place for fans to talk about what those things might be, but until you offer a better solution, we'll be here doing this. But keep fighting the good fight. 

Should’ve just ignored him . He was really wanting a response from quality posters. Very troll like IMO

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Should’ve just ignored him . He was really wanting a response from quality posters. Very troll like IMO

True, but Mikey is a benevolent troll who I respect and enjoy engaging with. I've tried like hell to get under his skin, with little or no success. 

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

13 hours ago, Mikey said:

Poll: The title of this thread should be changed to:

1)Just another bash Gus thread

2)Just another premature meltdown thread

3)I'm a better coach and know more football than Gus but no P5 team will hire me

I'm leaning towards 3. What say y'all?

How 'bout we just call it what it is?

"Mikey Bait"

[keesler 5,924]

I have to say that Gus is one of the great innovators of the modern era of college football.  Nearly every team in the conference is using some of this schemes and tempo to help energize and push their offensive production.  

Over the last few years we see that teams adjusted and they're better equipped to defend that offense now.  They revamped their recruiting and went for defensive players better suited to defend the HUNH/Fast Paced type game.  They rebuilt their dlines and the body style and stamina needed to go toe to toe with Gus' offensive players.

It's time for Gus to put his innovator visor back on and change things, and if the can't do it then let Lindsey do it for him.  It's very hard for an established coach to make total changes to what got them to where they are now (making $7mm/yr.)  But the elite level coaches are/were flexible enough to know when to evolve and they accept feedback and insight from others to help them. (Bryant trashed the pro-style and went wishbone/Spurrier canned the fun 'n gun and went to RO out of the shotgun)   The one's that are stubborn and set in their ways often find themselves in Les Miles position - a wealthy former HC that refused to make a change and evolve his program with the times who sits on his sofa watching the game every Saturday.  

I'm interested to see how Gus does this season with what should be a year where we see a focus and emphasis on the passing game.  Will he trust CCL to take control and add in his passing schemes, will the Oline be up to the challenge?  When the offense hits a road block with CGM make the quick decision changes to counter what the opponent throws at him?

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 hours ago, keesler said:

If a coach (an offensive genius) forms a game plan and chooses to call in plays when he doesn't have the talent and doesn't have his players trained and prepared to execute his plan then the coach has failed.  Any offensive mind in the profession has the mental capacity to tailor his scheme, play calling, and game plan to fit his players talent level and their level of preparedness.   Those are his players, his scheme, his game plan, and as a highly paid SEC coach he should be able to adapt and evolve to an offensive plan that is productive.

Any offense will flounder against top shelf defenses, but blaming the lack of offensive production on poor execution over and over and over is asinine.  Modify the damn offense if your own people can't execute it!

 

My comment was in reference to his assertion that we needed to add certain plays to the playbook to be a better offense. The point I was making is that we call the plays that our guys are going to be successful executing. Until our line is providing exceptional protection, and we are running clean routes and getting open, adding more/different passing isn't going to do anything for us but leave Stidham holding the ball too long or trying to force it into traffic. Whether we have the personnel to get to where we can run those plays is a question only the staff can answer.

As for execution... I have said repeatedly that the issues go beyond that, but to leave poor execution out of the equation is equally as asinine. As many people who are far smarter about football than all of us have pointed out for years, the coaching staff is in charge of getting the players ready to play and calling the plays, but they are not on the field executing those plays. They don't cause fumbles, dropped passes, missed assignments, etc. And just like top shelf defenses will cause any offense to flounder to some degree, they will also cause more mistakes and capitalize more on those mistakes.

[bigbird 60,525]

Missed assignments and bad fundamentals (catching) is due to poor preparation. Although execution is on the players, being prepared to execute is on the coaches