Gus is an average coach

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 hours ago, mom2kid said:

And don’t think Pruitt hasn’t taking the artform to UT.  I tire of people who say all teams do it including us.  If so, we’re bad at it because we come in 2nd on so many recruits.  We will see this next week where we land on some of these recruiting battles.  We can then revisit some of our opinion of Gus and staff.  We need to start leveling the talent level with this class or we will be perennial #2/3 in SEC

I doubt very much that Pruitt had to take it with him. Tennessee has been crooked at least going back to Fulmer if not further. They don't call the award for most off-field issues the Fulmer cup for nothing. I'm sure the boosters were waiting for him when he got off of the plane to discuss how he could pass them the names of recruits he was targeting so they could do their thing without involving him directly. 

The only way we are ever going to get the level of continual talent that bama and Georgia are going to get/keep getting under Saban and Smart is to play their game, which is not only cheating, but risky and takes years to build, or hope that the people who are supposed to be keeping those things from happening finally do their job. Otherwise, we are going to have to ride our #2/3 status and take down Goliath every few years.

[DAG 33,982]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

True, but Mikey is a benevolent troll who I respect and enjoy engaging with. I've tried like hell to get under his skin, with little or no success. 

 

Best way to do it, I find is with facts haha.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

22 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Missed assignments and bad fundamentals (catching) is due to poor preparation. Although execution is on the players, being prepared to execute is on the coaches

At times. It can also be due to distraction, miscommunication on the field (due to noise or whatever), excess adrenaline, or just a simple brain fart. As a coach, you should know as well as anyone that there's only so much you can do and the player needs to decide to do the rest.... and even then, things like pain, personal troubles, etc can sneak into  their heads and cause them to be off their game. No one is perfect.

That is the one thing I will say that Saban is amazing at. He has figured out how to practically turn his guys into robots. I don't know how that would be possible in a family style team like Auburn. You really have to function with military precision to get to that level.

[bigbird 60,525]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

At times. It can also be due to distraction, miscommunication on the field (due to noise or whatever), excess adrenaline, or just a simple brain fart. As a coach, you should know as well as anyone that there's only so much you can do and the player needs to decide to do the rest....

If I've done my job to the best of my ability, there is nothing that an offense will show that we haven't seen and repped. Yes, execution is on the player, but not being prepared to execute is not.

We have been woefully unprepared when a defense adjust to take away what we are doing. That is not execution. Period. 

Running a jet sweep into a 9 man front that has shifted in the direction to the run because everyone knows the play shows a level of preparedness that our opponents  have had for a few years now.  Our offense has not shown the same level of rediness needed to counter the elite defenses we face.

[DAG 33,982]

Good lord..smh 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 minutes ago, bigbird said:

If I've done my job to the best of my ability, there is nothing that an offense will show that we haven't seen and repped. Yes, execution is on the player, but not being prepared to execute is not.

We have been woefully unprepared when a defense adjust to take away what we are doing. That is not execution. Period. 

Running a jet sweep into a 9 man front that has shifted in the direction to the run because everyone knows the play shows a level of preparedness that our opponents  have had for a few years now.  Our offense has not shown the same level of rediness needed to counter the elite defenses we face.

No, that's the lack of "plan b" that I've been talking about all thread long. That's something I've been trying to figure out for years, because in 2009-10, we were known for being able to run 3, 4, even 5 different plays out of the exact same look, which was a nightmare for defensive coordinators. In 2015-16 I assumed our lack of creativity came from our personnel issues and having to substitute too much, but last year, we didn't have that excuse. I don't know why we can't get out of vanilla, when it's obvious that the staff, or at least the head coach, has the ability to scheme for it, because he has in the past.

[Mikey 16,600]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Best way to do it, I find is with facts haha.

You present facts? Who knew?

[Mikey 16,600]

5 hours ago, bigbird said:

As I've stated before, this is hot, hard dirty work but somebody has to do it. Without  frequent doses of reality, any number of my AU brothers and sisters might leap off the edge and we can't have that. Warm bodies are needed to adequately roll Toomer's Corner.

[Tiger 8,826]

58 minutes ago, bigbird said:

We have been woefully unprepared when a defense adjust to take away what we are doing. That is not execution. Period. 

Running a jet sweep into a 9 man front that has shifted in the direction to the run because everyone knows the play shows a level of preparedness that our opponents  have had for a few years now.  Our offense has not shown the same level of rediness needed to counter the elite defenses we face.

 

Edit: for clarity, the fact that Gus allows this to happen is what's dumb. Not the content of your post. 

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

If I've done my job to the best of my ability, there is nothing that an offense will show that we haven't seen and repped. Yes, execution is on the player, but not being prepared to execute is not.

We have been woefully unprepared when a defense adjust to take away what we are doing. That is not execution. Period. 

Running a jet sweep into a 9 man front that has shifted in the direction to the run because everyone knows the play shows a level of preparedness that our opponents  have had for a few years now.  Our offense has not shown the same level of rediness needed to counter the elite defenses we face.

During the Peach Bowl broadcast, a graphic came up at halftime or maybe just before that AU under Gus had a rather sorry & dismal record when behind at halftime:  something like 3-8 (?)  I apologize for not having the correct information as I've since deleted my recording of the game (out of disgust) but I do remember that graphic as being really indicative of not being able to adapt.  Maybe some of y'all (masochists) who've kept the recording  can enlighten us? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, AUloggerhead said:

During the Peach Bowl broadcast, a graphic came up at halftime or maybe just before that AU under Gus had a rather sorry & dismal record when behind at halftime:  something like 3-8 (?)  I apologize for not having the correct information as I've since deleted my recording of the game (out of disgust) but I do remember that graphic as being really indicative of not being able to adapt.  Maybe some of y'all (masochists) who've kept the recording  can enlighten us? 

What's scary is that, if my math is right, that would mean he's lost 14 games in 5 years after leading at halftime. 

[Mikey 16,600]

15 minutes ago, AUloggerhead said:

During the Peach Bowl broadcast, a graphic came up at halftime or maybe just before that AU under Gus had a rather sorry & dismal record when behind at halftime:  something like 3-8 (?) I apologize for not having the correct information as I've since deleted my recording of the game (out of disgust) but I do remember that graphic as being really indicative of not being able to adapt.  Maybe some of y'all (masochists) who've kept the recording  can enlighten us? 

I looked for such stats across all of college football but couldn't fine any. My gut feeling is that 3-8 in games where a team trails at the half is pretty darned good, way above average to be sure. I stand to be corrected by someone who is better at internet searches, but until then I'll stick with 3-8 in such games being above average.

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I looked for such stats across all of college football but couldn't fine any. My gut feeling is that 3-8 in games where a team trails at the half is pretty darned good, way above average to be sure. I stand to be corrected by someone who is better at internet searches, but until then I'll stick with 3-8 in such games being above average.

Do you have a recording of the game and, if so, could you report the actual numbers?  Incidentally, above average "across all of college football" is not encouraging to those of us that want AU to be competing in the playoff. 

[keesler 5,924]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

At times. It can also be due to distraction, miscommunication on the field (due to noise or whatever), excess adrenaline, or just a simple brain fart. As a coach, you should know as well as anyone that there's only so much you can do and the player needs to decide to do the rest.... and even then, things like pain, personal troubles, etc can sneak into  their heads and cause them to be off their game. No one is perfect.

That is the one thing I will say that Saban is amazing at. He has figured out how to practically turn his guys into robots. I don't know how that would be possible in a family style team like Auburn. You really have to function with military precision to get to that level.

A player that is distracted, has excess adrenaline or lack of adrenaline, allows pain and personal troubles to sneak into their heads and cause them to have an off game, can't get motivated to play a game away from their home crowd have an issue with mental toughness.   (Will Muschamp saw this and he knew how to fix it, Steele has built on it... thank you Lawd.)

You brought up Saban, so I'll take the liberty of elaborating on his system.  The man firmly believes mental toughness and attention to detail is equally as important as physical toughness and football knowledge.  He so vehemently believes this that he has an unlimited expense account to bring in psychologists, sports therapists, motivational speakers, personal help guru's, team building professionals at minimum on a monthly basis.  These are professionals that work with Fortune 500 companies and many professional sports organizations.  Those professionals are just as much a part of the fabric of his Process as the analysts and GA's on the staff.  

You are right, no one is perfect and even NS's players make mistakes and have a brain fart at times and fail to execute the play - things like that happen at the pro level too, it's human nature.  I personally think NS's players are robots, brainwashed, too entrenched in the "Process" - at the end of the day those players are fundamentally developed and they are prepared to DO THEIR JOB.  It is a business over there and they run that thing like a franchise factory, the end result unquestionably works for Alabama football.   

Watch what slowly happens at UGA with KS, I know for a fact he addressed the "mental" training within a month of hitting that campus.  Kirby quoted some of the same motto's from Saban's mental guru's in his press conferences and I heard a couple of UGA players do the same.  That Saban brainwashing will slowly seep into those bulldog's heads. 

[Tiger 8,826]

Why haven't we invested in the same type of mental coaching that our main rivals (with winning records against us) have been implementing? Is this something that has been discussed or thought about?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, keesler said:

A player that is distracted, has excess adrenaline or lack of adrenaline, allows pain and personal troubles to sneak into their heads and cause them to have an off game, can't get motivated to play a game away from their home crowd have an issue with mental toughness.   (Will Muschamp saw this and he knew how to fix it, Steele has built on it... thank you Lawd.)

You brought up Saban, so I'll take the liberty of elaborating on his system.  The man firmly believes mental toughness and attention to detail is equally as important as physical toughness and football knowledge.  He so vehemently believes this that he has an unlimited expense account to bring in psychologists, sports therapists, motivational speakers, personal help guru's, team building professionals at minimum on a monthly basis.  These are professionals that work with Fortune 500 companies and many professional sports organizations.  Those professionals are just as much a part of the fabric of his Process as the analysts and GA's on the staff.  

You are right, no one is perfect and even NS's players make mistakes and have a brain fart at times and fail to execute the play - things like that happen at the pro level too, it's human nature.  I personally think NS's players are robots, brainwashed, too entrenched in the "Process" - at the end of the day those players are fundamentally developed and they are prepared to DO THEIR JOB.  It is a business over there and they run that think like a franchise factory, the end result unquestionably works for Alabama football.   

Watch what slowly happens at UGA with KS, I know for a fact he addressed the "mental" training within a month of hitting that campus.  Kirby quoted some of the same motto's from Saban's mental guru's in his press conferences and I heard a couple of UGA players to the same.  That Saban brainwashing will slowly seep into those bulldog's heads. 

For the record... my like is for agreeing with you, not that I like the fact that it's happening.

You are totally right and that method does create great football players. It's the same thing the Army does to create men who know, instinctively, what to do when bullets start whizzing by their heads, instead of running and hiding. I personally think it has some serious downsides for the players personal lives, but you can't deny the result on the field.

I do believe that it, to do it at the level that Saban does, you need a lot of behind the scenes support to protect/bolster the process. My hope is that it will take Kirby some time to build those kinds of resources, if he can at Georgia.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Why haven't we invested in the same type of mental coaching that our main rivals (with winning records against us) have been implementing? Is this something that has been discussed or thought about?

Part of the reason is that we take a very different approach to football. We're about family, support, building good men along with good football players. A lot of the mental stuff goes against that, because it's about tearing the individual down and building them back up as a football machine. The closest thing we have to that is Garner, and he still goes into dad mode when he feels a player needs it. Saban doesn't do dad mode. He's the boss, you work for him, it's your job to do your job, period. Don't do it, someone else will. Don't like it? There's the door.

[DAG 33,982]

The family stuff is sounding super cultish. What if you grew up in a military family ? One is not dependent on the other and I would argue structure and accountability is what a lot of these young men need which is what NS seems to be building.

[keesler 5,924]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

For the record... my like is for agreeing with you, not that I like the fact that it's happening.

You are totally right and that method does create great football players. It's the same thing the Army does to create men who know, instinctively, what to do when bullets start whizzing by their heads, instead of running and hiding. I personally think it has some serious downsides for the players personal lives, but you can't deny the result on the field.

I do believe that it, to do it at the level that Saban does, you need a lot of behind the scenes support to protect/bolster the process. My hope is that it will take Kirby some time to build those kinds of resources, if he can at Georgia.

Kirby came in with a super supportive base of boosters and in-house higher up's that are eager to help and bolster his Process.  Those UGA good ole boys have sat back and watched this conference run rough shod over college football for the last 15 yrs and UGA played no part in that romping.  UGA has been virtually irrelevant on the national championship level since the first conference expansion. 

So KS has a eager bunch ready, willing, and able to provide support and resources in any capacity.  They're workin them backwoods pig trails in Gawja as I sit on my back deck responding to you.  

 

 

[Tiger 8,826]

30 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Part of the reason is that we take a very different approach to football. We're about family, support, building good men along with good football players. A lot of the mental stuff goes against that, because it's about tearing the individual down and building them back up as a football machine. The closest thing we have to that is Garner, and he still goes into dad mode when he feels a player needs it. Saban doesn't do dad mode. He's the boss, you work for him, it's your job to do your job, period. Don't do it, someone else will. Don't like it? There's the door.

Ehhhhhh. I see what you're saying but the bottom line is Gus could be at a 100% success rate at providing a family atmosphere, building good men, making sure everyone is graduating etc but if he doesn't win enough he will lose his job. I'd say Gus has done a great job with all of the things you've mentioned and has improved the overall character of the players in the program since the Chizik days. However none of that will save him if he starts giving us 4 and 5 loss seasons. Now don't get me wrong, none of those things should be ignored or overlooked and they are good qualities that all AU fans/alums can be proud of but we should not forgive not doing all we can within the rules to be the best football program we can be just to fulfill some of these ideals. Gus knows it too. He knows it's good for PR to have all the family/support vibe chugging on all cylinders but he knows even better that if he doesn't win enough he will be fired.

So IMO we are doing it wrong if we are intentionally handicapping our football program's ability to win games by excusing not giving our players coaching in aspects that other top programs are. Especially when the 2 schools Gus is judged most against are implementing these methods and beating us in the process (losing record vs both Saban and bowlcut Kirbz). 

[keesler 5,924]

14 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Part of the reason is that we take a very different approach to football. We're about family, support, building good men along with good football players. A lot of the mental stuff goes against that, because it's about tearing the individual down and building them back up as a football machine. The closest thing we have to that is Garner, and he still goes into dad mode when he feels a player needs it. Saban doesn't do dad mode. He's the boss, you work for him, it's your job to do your job, period. Don't do it, someone else will. Don't like it? There's the door.

^^^^^   Hammer meet Nail!   ^^^^^

AU chooses a holistic approach,  build the whole person not just a specific part. Faith-Family-Football (Bro Chette Williams plays a big part)

UA chooses a professional approach, build from pro franchise business model - build the specimen you need to compete at an elite level.  >> (Dr. Kevin Elko plays a big part)

 

 

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Ehhhhhh. I see what you're saying but the bottom line is Gus could be at a 100% success rate at providing a family atmosphere, building good men, making sure everyone is graduating etc but if he doesn't win enough he will lose his job. I'd say Gus has done a great job with all of the things you've mentioned and has improved the overall character of the players in the program since the Chizik days. However none of that will save him if he starts giving us 4 and 5 loss seasons consistently again. Now don't get me wrong, none of those things should be ignored or overlooked and they are good qualities that all AU fans/alums can be proud of but we should not forgive not doing all we can within the rules to be the best football program we can be just to fulfill some of these ideals. Gus knows it too. He knows it's good for PR to have all the family/support vibe chugging on all cylinders but he knows even better that if he doesn't win enough he will be fired.

So IMO we are doing it wrong if we are intentionally handicapping our football program's ability to win games. Especially when the 2 schools Gus is judged most against are implementing these methods and beating us in the process (losing record vs both Saban and bowlcut Kirbz). 

You're right... if you want to be the equivalent of a minor league NFL team and at the pinnacle of the sport, Saban has laid out the road map and Smart is most likely following suit. But the thing is, we're talking about a bunch of 18-22 year old kids here. I don't think Gus or Auburn can bring themselves to the point of treating them like a part in a machine, especially when the vast majority of them won't play football after they are done at Auburn. I think Gus would rather his players have fun and learn to be good men than win it all every year if he knew it would require giving that up. I agree with that. I'll take 3-4 losses a year if I know that the majority of our guys are going to have a better opportunity at a good life because of it.

I also don't think anyone at Gus's level is overtly worried about being fired. I guarantee you that he could retire, tomorrow, on the money he's already made. Coaches don't coach because they need the job. They coach because they love the game and they love the kids, or in some cases, because they desire a legacy.

[keesler 5,924]

Ohhhh, these comparisons are so agonizing.  I feel like the SEC is dangerous waters and AU has thrown a jelly fish in the tank when our rivals tossed in killer sharks.......now we have to tread the currents with Fisher at aTm and a Brinks truck backing his play. 

[aucom96 1,618]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

 I think Gus would rather his players have fun and learn to be good men than win it all every year if he knew it would require giving that up. I agree with that. I'll take 3-4 losses a year if I know that the majority of our guys are going to have a better opportunity at a good life because of it.

We can get those results a lot cheaper than we're paying. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 minutes ago, aucom96 said:

We can get those results a lot cheaper than we're paying. 

Not in the SEC we can't. Jimmy Sexton sets the price for SEC coaches. You just have to learn to deal with it.