Why Can’t Trump Just Condemn Nazis?

[homersapien 11,371]

18 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Would you find it objectively odd if someone asserted that Obama could not single out Black Supremacists as unacceptable because he didn’t want to disturb his base?

Such an assertion would be absurd as a matter of principle, much like yours. Do you seriously maintain that Trump empathizes with racists?

The logical extensions of what you purport and inferences spawned therefrom are facially offensive to white and black people who voted for Trump. 

Yes.  Absolutely.  That's exactly my point.

Furthermore, "the logical extension of what you purport and inferences spawned therefrom"  suggests you are inclined to do the same thing.

"Black Supremacy" is not a feature of the BLM or any other civil rights movement, regardless of the statements of a given individual here or there. (Lewis Farrakan is a favorite 'go-to' for equivocators).  In fact, most, if not all, black rights movements are promoting equality, not superiority.

Nazis and White Supremacists are motivated by a completely different belief system they are quite clear about.  Does Trump really believe that?  I don't know, but it's clear he is willing to overlook or accept blatant racism if he thinks it benefits him politically. 

I am dismayed and a little shocked that so many on this forum are willing to do the same.  I would have hoped we were all better than that by now.

 

 

[japantiger 4,051]

Fake news Homey....this from last year....

“Anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable,” Trump said in brief remarks to reporters in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House, where he returned after a week of vacation in Bedminster, N.J. “We condemn in the strongest possible terms the egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America.”

Trump added: “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to all that we hold dear as Americans.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/14/trump-denounces-kkk-neo-nazis-as-justice-department-launches-civil-rights-probe-into-charlottesville-death/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9dc275f35c07

 

[homersapien 11,371]

17 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Fake news Homey....this from last year....

“Anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable,” Trump said in brief remarks to reporters in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House, where he returned after a week of vacation in Bedminster, N.J. “We condemn in the strongest possible terms the egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. It has no place in America.”

Trump added: “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to all that we hold dear as Americans.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/08/14/trump-denounces-kkk-neo-nazis-as-justice-department-launches-civil-rights-probe-into-charlottesville-death/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9dc275f35c07

 

Somehow, I find reading a prepared statement at a press conference a week later unpersuasive. 

I am sure his racists followers get the same message.

[japantiger 4,051]

So what you really mean then is no matter what he does, you're not going to give him credit for it....got it....glad to know you're an honest broker in this process.

[alexava 6,973]

30 minutes ago, japantiger said:

So what you really mean then is no matter what he does, you're not going to give him credit for it....got it....glad to know you're an honest broker in this process.

Give him just a minute and he’ll contradict himself again and give the warm and fuzzy reminder about the “very fine people “inside these groups. 

[AUDub 11,147]

24 minutes ago, alexava said:

Give him just a minute and he’ll contradict himself again and give the warm and fuzzy reminder about the “very fine people “inside these groups.  

Truth.

It's hard not to be cynical.

[homersapien 11,371]

1 hour ago, japantiger said:

So what you really mean then is no matter what he does, you're not going to give him credit for it....got it....glad to know you're an honest broker in this process.

I don't believe it.  He's lying.  Someone wrote this for him.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

I don't know, but it's clear he is willing to overlook or accept blatant racism if he thinks it benefits him politically. 

I am dismayed and a little shocked that so many on this forum are willing to do the same.  I would have hoped we were all better than that by now.

Because you’ve conjured it in your mind doesn’t necessarily make it objectively clear. Your take on it is based on silence. That’s poor reasoning on your part.

Further, how do you conclude that others on this forum are willing to overlook or accept “blatant racism” in exchange for benefit? You’re free to make such assertions - but when you do, you should at least provide plausible support to accompany. Unless of course, you mean that disagreement with your assessment equates to the same “atrocity” you’re accusing Trump of.

[japantiger 4,051]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

I don't believe it.  He's lying.  Someone wrote this for him.

Because, well, no one ever wrote the speech of any other politician ..... I guess Trump would be the first one to ever have a speech writer.....

Thanks for confirming my point.

[Mims44 1,869]

I'm gonna start using this logic in all types of illogical situations from now on when someone criticizes me.

 

 

 

"You wanna criticize me on how these cabinets I installed are uneven, but not even CONDEMN THE NAZIS??!!? Racist!"

 

 

[homersapien 11,371]

16 hours ago, japantiger said:

Because, well, no one ever wrote the speech of any other politician ..... I guess Trump would be the first one to ever have a speech writer.....

Thanks for confirming my point.

Only Trump would need for someone else to write a criticism of white supremacists.

[homersapien 11,371]

20 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Because you’ve conjured it in your mind doesn’t necessarily make it objectively clear. Your take on it is based on silence. That’s poor reasoning on your part.

Further, how do you conclude that others on this forum are willing to overlook or accept “blatant racism” in exchange for benefit? You’re free to make such assertions - but when you do, you should at least provide plausible support to accompany. Unless of course, you mean that disagreement with your assessment equates to the same “atrocity” you’re accusing Trump of.

I am speaking to the efforts - in this thread - to equivocate American Nazis and white supremacists with the people who oppose them.  There is no equivalent to the organized, dogmatic groups espousing racial superiority represented by white supremacist organizations.

To "conjure" up such a counter movement is nothing more than normalizing or justifying these groups.  This is exactly why Trump's initial comments - implying such an equivalence - were so controversial.

Frankly, at this point, I am not surprised that Trump supporters don't get this.

[homersapien 11,371]

7 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I'm gonna start using this logic in all types of illogical situations from now on when someone criticizes me.

"You wanna criticize me on how these cabinets I installed are uneven, but not even CONDEMN THE NAZIS??!!? Racist!"

 

This makes no sense to me.  Care to explain?

[Mims44 1,869]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This makes no sense to me.  Care to explain?

"all types of illogical situations"

[homersapien 11,371]

20 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Because you’ve conjured it in your mind doesn’t necessarily make it objectively clear. Your take on it is based on silence. That’s poor reasoning on your part.

Further, how do you conclude that others on this forum are willing to overlook or accept “blatant racism” in exchange for benefit? You’re free to make such assertions - but when you do, you should at least provide plausible support to accompany. Unless of course, you mean that disagreement with your assessment equates to the same “atrocity” you’re accusing Trump of.

I didn't say that.  To suggest I did is totally disingenuous.

Trump obviously is pandering to his base which are largely motivated by their perceived "loss of status" from immigrants and people of color. 

I suspect a degree of personal racism - expressed in the form of accommodating supremacist philosophy is also involved.  That's undoubtedly true for many Trump supporters who receive a psychological benefit from having their fears pandered to.

[homersapien 11,371]

5 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

"all types of illogical situations"

Sorry, but I am still lost.

Perhaps it would help to quote what you are referring to?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

I didn't say that.  To suggest I did is totally disingenuous.

This is what you said:

“I don't know, but it's clear he is willing to overlook or accept blatant racism if he thinks it benefits him politically. 

 I am dismayed and a little shocked that so many on this forum are willing to do the same.  I would have hoped we were all better than that by now.”

[Mims44 1,869]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:43 PM, homersapien said:

And to my original point, Trump cannot single out White Supremacists as unacceptable because he doesn't want to upset his base.

I've seen you say this or something similar many times.

Do you believe there are enough white supremacists in the US to win a presidential election (and damn near a majority vote)?

 

If you had to take a guess, what percentage of trump voters (his base) are white supremacists?

[Mims44 1,869]

5 hours ago, homersapien said:

Sorry, but I am still lost.

Perhaps it would help to quote what you are referring to?

You want me to quote everyone getting pissy every time Trump doesn't specifically mention nazis?

I doubt a post can fit that many quotes in it, so I'll sum up.

 

Trump: Racism is bad, racists are bad!

Everyone in the world: He didn't mention white supremacists all by themselves, he is secretly the leader of all white racists!

1 week older Trump: White racists in particular are extra bad!

Everyone in the world: Sure, a week later... I bet a writer forced him to say that! He's the leader of all white racists after all, so he wouldn't say that unless he was forced.

Random posters many moons later: Didn't Trump once say racism and white racists are bad?

Homer: Everything he says that could be perceived as being against racism or white racists is secretly a *wink wink nod nod* to all his white supremacist followers.

 

 

I really hope that helps, but I doubt it will.

[SaltyTiger 7,795]

10 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

 

If you had to take a guess, what percentage of trump voters (his base) are white supremacists?

Pretty sure it has been pointed to Brother Homer that this was a stupid post. I met two KKK members in 1979. Got to have the time to go and counter protest if you want to meet one today.

[homersapien 11,371]

16 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

This is what you said:

“I don't know, but it's clear he is willing to overlook or accept blatant racism if he thinks it benefits him politically. 

 I am dismayed and a little shocked that so many on this forum are willing to do the same.  I would have hoped we were all better than that by now.”

It's the "for benefit" part that threw me.  I presume no one on this forum is pandering to racists for political support.

But you are correct, I am dismayed and shocked that so many on this forum apparently support Trump's attitude.  While Trump clearly thinks there is a direct benefit of not condemning white supremacist dogma,  I don't understand how people on this forum could perceive "direct benefit" of refraining from doing so. 

They are either mindlessly supporting Trump just for the sake of supporting him or they are reflecting personal latent insecurity/resentment regarding status and race.  It reminds me of the "all lives matter" rejoinder to "black lives matter", only much worse.

 

[homersapien 11,371]

14 hours ago, Mims44 said:

I've seen you say this or something similar many times.

Do you believe there are enough white supremacists in the US to win a presidential election (and damn near a majority vote)?

 

If you had to take a guess, what percentage of trump voters (his base) are white supremacists?

Similar to what?

No I don't.  I don't really understand why Trump refused to do the obvious thing after the Charlottesville demonstrations.  I don't think it would have hurt him politically if he had done so.  It inclines me to believe he has inherent racist instincts, which is also suggested by his history.

I don't know how many of Trump supporters are self-identified "white supremacists"; I suspect it's not many as there don't seem to be that many people who self-identify as such. Again, this is why I don't understand why he didn't immediately single out Nazis and white supremacists immediately.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percent of Trump supporters have feelings related to "status insecurity".  There have been several articles that have looked at this. (see below).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/04/17/racism-motivated-trump-voters-more-than-authoritarianism-or-income-inequality/?utm_term=.f2e8422ac0cd

Racism motivated Trump voters more than authoritarianism

 

https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publications/2016-elections/the-five-types-trump-voters

The Five Types of Trump Voters

Who They Are and What They Believe

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2018/05/14/daily-202-trump-voters-stay-loyal-because-they-feel-disrespected/5af8aac530fb0425887994cc/?utm_term=.8c6ef3c78978

The Daily 202: Trump voters stay loyal because they feel disrespected

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html

Trump Voters Driven by Fear of Losing Status, Not Economic Anxiety, Study Finds

[homersapien 11,371]

14 hours ago, Mims44 said:

You want me to quote everyone getting pissy every time Trump doesn't specifically mention nazis?

I doubt a post can fit that many quotes in it, so I'll sum up.

 

Trump: Racism is bad, racists are bad!

Everyone in the world: He didn't mention white supremacists all by themselves, he is secretly the leader of all white racists!

1 week older Trump: White racists in particular are extra bad!

Everyone in the world: Sure, a week later... I bet a writer forced him to say that! He's the leader of all white racists after all, so he wouldn't say that unless he was forced.

Random posters many moons later: Didn't Trump once say racism and white racists are bad?

Homer: Everything he says that could be perceived as being against racism or white racists is secretly a *wink wink nod nod* to all his white supremacist followers.

 

 

I really hope that helps, but I doubt it will.

I didn't say Trump was "forced" to make the second, prepared statement.  He was undoubtedly persuaded to do so by people on his staff. 

And in case you haven't noticed, I am certainly not the only one who noticed his original statements in response to Trump's comments after Charlottesville.  There was a fairly sizeable outrage over it. ("Good people on both sides.....").  To have the POTUS equivocating about Nazis and white supremacists is a big deal.

Hell, the OP featured an opinion piece about this and I could call up more if required.  This is not about just me.  Half the country thinks of Trump as racist:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/04/politics/donald-trump-quinnipiac-poll/index.html

 

Finally, if you are going to quote me, quote me, please don't paraphrase what I actually wrote with a different spin.  It's disingenuous. 

[homersapien 11,371]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Pretty sure it has been pointed to Brother Homer that this was a stupid post. I met two KKK members in 1979. Got to have the time to go and counter protest if you want to meet one today.

What was a "stupid post" - the question Mim's asked?

[Mims44 1,869]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

And in case you haven't noticed, I am certainly not the only one who noticed his original statements in response to Trump's comments after Charlottesville. 

Hell, the OP featured an opinion piece about this and I could call up more if required.  This is not about just me.  Half the country thinks of Trump as racist:

Weird, since my wording was literally "Everyone in the world" right up till the last sentence

...but you heard only Homer.

 

2nd I explained in my post what I was doing with the italics, either whine to an admin about it or get over it. Just quit whining to me.... It's very disingenuous.