Allen Greene comments

[chimes 442]

34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

...and Deshaun Davis was a 3*. Sammie Coates was a 2*.

People said all the same things about Tre Mason and Kerryon Johnson that they're saying about our current RBs, at least a couple of whom would be *going off* from behind even a mediocre OL such as what we had the last couple years and with any threat of a passing game. 

We're a field goal away from having two wins over top-10 teams this season. And we damned sure didn't do that with coaching.

If you honestly think that our roster isn't one of the 25 most talented in the country, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

 

I never said we don’t have one of the top 25 most talented teams in the country. I just said I can’t figure out if it’s lack of coaching(development and scheme) or lack of talent in a few key areas. I think it’s probably closer to a mix of the two. 

Also, I’m NOT saying lower rated guys can’t be studs. I used to follow recruiting much more closely than I do now. I was very high on both Sammie and DD. I also made numerous posts before Tre got the starting gig that I thought he was going to be a MONSTER. I’ll admit I’ve missed on guys too- I was really low on CAP and he’s still proving me wrong.

[keesler 5,928]

9 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

Their backs are against the wall now. You're right....this weekend will tell the tale. If he can't pull this one out, there's absolutely zero chance anyone can defend him. I think we've already crossed that line personally,  but there are still a few clinging.

Oh no, the backbone to defend Gus Malzhan was broken in JHS in front of our home crowd last Saturday while anyone within a mile of the stadium could hear 'Rocky Top' billow out of the rafters. 

The Hillbilly's were ecstatic because their hey-seed 1st yr HC was able to chalk up UT's first SEC win in damn near two years. 

Anyone hanging on for dear life and scratching around the bottom of the bag to defend CGM is soft in the head.

 

[kevon67 2,368]

23 hours ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Like i said...with this coach...it's really no hope in it. Don't have to hope. Gus is getting the job done on his own. I can fully support the players and not the coach. Many are doing that right now. 

If we win out........which is highly unlikely.........I dont see CGM being at Auburn next season.

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 minutes ago, kevon67 said:

If we win out........which is highly unlikely.........I dont see CGM being at Auburn next season.

Did you really just say the words "If we win out...."?

 

[kevon67 2,368]

4 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Did you really just say the words "If we win out...."?

 

Admit..........still a ray of sushine trying to get out 😂

[DAG 34,017]

3 minutes ago, chimes said:

I never said we don’t have one of the top 25 most talented teams in the country. I just said I can’t figure out if it’s lack of coaching(development and scheme) or lack of talent in a few key areas. I think it’s probably closer to a mix of the two. 

Also, I’m NOT saying lower rated guys can’t be studs. I used to follow recruiting much more closely than I do now. I was very high on both Sammie and DD. I also made numerous posts before Tre got the starting gig that I thought he was going to be a MONSTER. I’ll admit I’ve missed on guys too- I was really low on CAP and he’s still proving me wrong.

I believe it is an evaluation issue. Gus has roles in his offense and he wants these guys to fit his roles no matter what. This is fine but you better be able to get the recruit fit that mold if you are that stringent. If you needed a Cam Akers to fit in your offense, then you better be doing everything , short of offering his mom a job, to get him here.

Now, he is Kam Martin, who I believe is very talented trying to run between tackles . In fact it seems KM has bought into this idea that he even has changed his running style. That’s not you bro. What he should be really doing his maximizing Kam’s talent by calling plays that suits his abilities. Lane Kiffen did this well. 

Look at Joey Gatewood. He has always been the best athlete on the field but red flags should’ve went off when he couldn’t outrightly win the QB job at his high school . Still , he could benefit in this offense , if you don’t make him something he is not. Put him in the Pat White school of hard knocks and make him be efficient in three layers of the passing game. The slant, stop and fade. After that, he has to be excellent in the QB read. But this doesn’t seem to be the case and now I doubt we will ever see him at QB at Auburn. Just my opinion. I could go on about SW/JS but I’ve said as much about them way too many times already .

Gus does not know how to adapt to his team’s strength. That is the #1 problem. This causes some serious evaluation issues as well. NCM being relegated to pure blocking and that is it. Some guys seeing PT more than others, although those other guys contributing way more. It is backwards but here we are.

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 minutes ago, chimes said:

I never said we don’t have one of the top 25 most talented teams in the country. I just said I can’t figure out if it’s lack of coaching(development and scheme) or lack of talent in a few key areas. I think it’s probably closer to a mix of the two. 

Also, I’m NOT saying lower rated guys can’t be studs. I used to follow recruiting much more closely than I do now. I was very high on both Sammie and DD. I also made numerous posts before Tre got the starting gig that I thought he was going to be a MONSTER. I’ll admit I’ve missed on guys too- I was really low on CAP and he’s still proving me wrong.

Okay. You said the roster is an illusion. I don't agree with that. I think that a good coach could walk in today and start winning a lot of games and look a lot better in losses to good teams than Gus does.

I do agree, however, that recruiting rankings can be illusory. You pointed out how high rankings might make our team look better on paper, so I pointed out that the absolute heart of our defense- and team, really- actually made it look worse. 

I personally see a relative talent deficiency at one position group that is being exacerbated by a lack of leadership, and I think our head coach is unnecessarily letting that drag down an entire team. 

Against Washington, we had some concerns and issues that were very correctable. We had a million penalties and still beat a top 10 team. Little by little, this team has gone from that to complete train wreck, one man at a time. That isn't a talent problem in my opinion. If they were good in game 1, they could and should be good now. 

[keesler 5,928]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

It’s just almost hard for me to believe the rumors of Chip having to go through Gus like that to get a play call out , but then I see the results and the tendencies from past playcalling of chip. What gets me is how these guys allow this stuff to happen. I mean I guess you are willing to go down with the sinking ship. You know that’s one thing about Gus lol. If he feels like he is cornered, he will bounce. 

The bounce was supposed to happen last week though, in the wake of the MooState loss where Fitz ran rough shod all over our guys. 

The articles ramped up about the contract and the buyout, rumors of a disgruntled locker room, fans in general were making noise.  I just knew the team would come out and handle UT in JHS, they'd make a statement and defend the home ground in front of our people.  The exact opposite transpired, and now reporters are peppering CGM with some seriously sensitive questions to which he has yet to take full ownership of the situation or even acknowledge his own coaching deficiencies.  

I lost all faith that he'll bounce back because he was all but cornered after the MooState loss and his team did not respond in any fashion vs UT.

[DAG 34,017]

Just now, keesler said:

The bounce was supposed to happen last week though, in the wake of the MooState loss where Fitz ran rough shod all over our guys. 

The articles ramped up about the contract and the buyout, rumors of a disgruntled locker room, fans in general were making noise.  I just knew the team would come out and handle UT in JHS, they'd make a statement and defend the home ground in front of our people.  The exact opposite transpired, and now reporters are peppering CGM with some seriously sensitive questions to which he has yet to take full ownership of the situation or even acknowledge his own coaching deficiencies.  

I lost all faith that he'll bounce back because he was all but cornered after the MooState loss and his team did not respond in any fashion vs UT.

Not bounce back lol. Like he leaves when he feels cornered haha. I don’t understand how CCL is letting Gus make him look foolish. If the rumors are true that is.

[I_M4_AU 7,999]

5 minutes ago, keesler said:

 

 

This quote is the whole reason Gus need to go.  “For whatever reason”. Coach if you don’t know the reason we are not executing, who does?  If you don’t know what the problem is, how do you fix it?

I know it’s probable a coach speak thing, but it doesn’t instill confidence in your coaching ability.

[McLoofus 35,182]

32 minutes ago, DAG said:

It’s just almost hard for me to believe the rumors of Chip having to go through Gus like that to get a play call out , but then I see the results and the tendencies from past playcalling of chip. What gets me is how these guys allow this stuff to happen. I mean I guess you are willing to go down with the sinking ship. You know that’s one thing about Gus lol. If he feels like he is cornered, he will bounce. 

Hate to say it, but I assumed it before the rumors started. Gus is a weird dude. 

[chimes 442]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

I believe it is an evaluation issue. Gus has roles in his offense and he wants these guys to fit his roles no matter what. This is fine but you better be able to get the recruit fit that mold if you are that stringent. If you needed a Cam Akers to fit in your offense, then you better be doing everything , short of offering his mom a job, to get him here.

Now, he is Kam Martin, who I believe is very talented trying to run between tackles . In fact it seems KM has bought into this idea that he even has changed his running style. That’s not you bro. What he should be really doing his maximizing Kam’s talent by calling plays that suits his abilities. Lane Kiffen did this well. 

Look at Joey Gatewood. He has always been the best athlete on the field but red flags should’ve went off when he couldn’t outrightly win the QB job at his high school . Still , he could benefit in this offense , if you don’t make him something he is not. Put him in the Pat White school of hard knocks and make him be efficient in three layers of the passing game. The slant, stop and fade. After that, he has to be excellent in the QB read. But this doesn’t seem to be the case and now I doubt we will ever see him at QB at Auburn. Just my opinion. I could go on about SW/JS but I’ve said as much about them way too many times already .

Gus does not know how to adapt to his team’s strength. That is the #1 problem. This causes some serious evaluation issues as well. NCM being relegated to pure blocking and that is it. Some guys seeing PT more than others, although those other guys contributing way more. It is backwards but here we are.

Completely agree with all of this.

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Okay. You said the roster is an illusion. I don't agree with that. I think that a good coach could walk in today and start winning a lot of games and look a lot better in losses to good teams than Gus does.

I do agree, however, that recruiting rankings can be illusory. You pointed out how high rankings might make our team look better on paper, so I pointed out that the absolute heart of our defense- and team, really- actually made it look worse. 

I personally see a relative talent deficiency at one position group that is being exacerbated by a lack of leadership, and I think our head coach is unnecessarily letting that drag down an entire team. 

Against Washington, we had some concerns and issues that were very correctable. We had a million penalties and still beat a top 10 team. Little by little, this team has gone from that to complete train wreck, one man at a time. That isn't a talent problem in my opinion. If they were good in game 1, they could and should be good now. 

There is PLENTY of talent on our roster for the coaches to put a MUCH better product on the field. I do think however that whatever our 5 year recruiting ranking is (5?) is illusory. The best way I can put it at the moment is that I don’t think we’re quite as stocked at certain positions as many believe. Some guys might have stars but not be suited for our offense. Some guys might have stars but don’t compliment the guys next to them (stacked dline that can’t generate a pass rush). Some guys might have stars but would not be filling the roles on other teams that they do on ours (Kam Martin).

I think Gus misevaluates both talent and fit. I think Stidham, Martin , and Shivers could all be very good playing for other coaches in different offenses.

 

I hate to keep piling on Whitlow bc the guy plays so hard but I do think it’s telling that he’s earned the RB1 role over these more highly sought after guys( haven’t looked at their offers yet but I’m trusting DAG here). I honestly think Whitlow has looked every bit of his offer list.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, Brad_ATX said:

If he loses every game but Liberty, we finish 5-7.  The last time an AU coach survived a losing season was TT in 1999, his first season.  That's why it wouldn't shock me if he was gone no matter the cost.

If were by some miracle to win out, then he's obviously safe but I think a lot of fans would be pretty upset in a different way.  Winning out would show that Gus completely wasted the first half of the season through sheer incompetence and pissed away a potential championship team.

If he wins out, beating the dawgs and bama, I won't complain about anything.

[keesler 5,928]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This quote is the whole reason Gus need to go.  “For whatever reason”. Coach if you don’t know the reason we are not executing, who does?  If you don’t know what the problem is, how do you fix it?

I know it’s probable a coach speak thing, but it doesn’t instill confidence in your coaching ability.

In over his head - stubborn as a mule - egocentric - entirely too analytical and too detailed in his philosophy - can't see that big old forest for focusing on tiniest seed on the pine cone on lower limb of the tree in the far back corner - inflexible - resists advice from others.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

5 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

If he wins out, beating the dawgs and bama, I won't complain about anything.

This is just me personally, but I'd like to see him gone even if he did that.  I'm tired of this roller coaster of not understanding what he has and frittering away opportunities for championships because of stubborn, predictable play calling and substandard recruiting efforts at key positions.  I'm ready to get Auburn to a place where 8-4 is a down year, not the norm.

[keesler 5,928]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

This is just me personally, but I'd like to see him gone even if he did that.  I'm tired of this roller coaster of not understanding what he has and frittering away opportunities for championships because of stubborn, predictable play calling and substandard recruiting efforts at key positions.  I'm ready to get Auburn to a place where 8-4 is a down year, not the norm.

Yep - Gus has lost all equity at this point, he's upside down on this mortgage and all the hoping, wishing, dreaming for change, enlightenment, adjustments, evolution, and improvements are depleted - the depreciation schedule has run out it's useful life,  it's time to buy new and start over.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

Yep - Gus has lost all equity at this point, he's upside down on this mortgage and all the hoping, wishing, dreaming for change, enlightenment, adjustments, evolution, and improvements are depleted - the depreciation schedule has run out it's useful life,  it's time to buy new and start over.

Of course let me qualify my statement:  If he wins out there's no way he'll get fired.  Auburn is willing to take the PR hit over a huge buyout for a guy that goes 6-6 or 5-7 (maybe even 7-5).  But they aren't paying a huge buyout for to fire a guy who wins his last 5 regular season games to finish 9-3, which includes wins over A&M, UGA and Alabama.  It will never happen.  Another opportunity could come along and he'd jump knowing his support is so thin here, but we wouldn't fire him.

But I'd still want him gone and hope to high heaven someone would take him off our hands.

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

To those saying we aren't talented

2012 looked so much worse from a talent standpoint but Gus turned it around. Don't underestimate what poor coaching's influence on how good players look can be. Chizik was terrible and it made the players look bad. Gus proved that the talent on that team (sure with a key addition at QB, but QB wasn't the only problem on the field that year at all) was significantly better than 3-9. 

Right now Gus is making our talent look terrible. Part of it is recruiting on the OL, part of it is just the way our offense is being run. Either way, it's on him.

That last line says it all. With OL problems, then running b/t the tackles becomes a problem, as well as QB mistakes due to such pressure beating our OL bad at times. Making JS run play fakes at times the D is only looking at rushing the passer puts JS is scramble mode, sack mode, or make a bad throw play.

So yes, it's the OL (the most important part of any offense) and the play calling when you have little room for error on Offense. One good drive, and then a qtr of nothing will not win us SEC games.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, chimes said:

Some guys might have stars but don’t compliment the guys next to them (stacked dline that can’t generate a pass rush). Some guys might have stars but would not be filling the roles on other teams that they do on ours (Kam Martin).

I think Gus misevaluates both talent and fit. I think Stidham, Martin , and Shivers could all be very good playing for other coaches in different offenses.

I hate to keep piling on Whitlow bc the guy plays so hard but I do think it’s telling that he’s earned the RB1 role over these more highly sought after guys( haven’t looked at their offers yet but I’m trusting DAG here). I honestly think Whitlow has looked every bit of his offer list.

We are tied for 11th in the country in tackles for a loss. Is our DL really that bad? Also, are we considering *everything else* going on with the team?

Regarding the running backs, yeah, they'd look different on a different team where blocking by the offensive line was a concept.

Stidham isn't a "fit" problem. He fit just fine last year. Yes, the complete ineptitude of his OL and his coach are exposing every weakness in his game this season.

Shivers is a true freshman and will fit just fine in any functional offense that has blocking and sensible play calling. He could've been OMac in 2010 or Corey Grant in 2013 or Eli Stove in 2017. And will be better than at least 2 of them if given a chance. 

We see different things with Whitlow. I see, as with most of the offensive players, a guy with tons of potential who is inexperienced and just screaming for adequate coaching. 

When players get better instead of worse but still aren't very good, I'll worry about talent. When guys like Stidham, Harrell and Horton don't markedly regress from one season to the next, I'll worry about talent. When we get a new coach in and kids start cycling out, we'll know who wasn't talented or who had genuine attitude problems. 

2003 begat 2004. 2008 begat 2009. 2012 begat 2013. Bad coaches make good players look like bad players. 

 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Whitlow has all the tools to be a great back in the SEC, not to mention the 'want to',  but he's a RS freshman and shouldn't have the RB1 role dumped on his shoulders this soon in his career.  He should be sitting behind an experienced RB or two, getting some mop up carries and learning the ropes this year, with a chance for an increased role next season and a shot at the starting role as a junior.  He's very talented, just raw.

But Gus has failed to recruit consistently at one of the most important positions on the field for his run/play-action based offensive scheme.  So we end up stuck in neutral when one RB goes down like Kerryon did.  Other schools not named Bama or UGA have more than one Power 5 caliber back on the roster at a time.  That's unacceptable roster management.

[McLoofus 35,182]

And @chimes, I'll give you another example that I already provided of just how bad our coach's decision making is. Anders Carlson is 9 of 10 inside of 50 yards this season. That is effing amazing for any kicker, much less a freshman. However, he's 1 of 8 beyond 50. Eight 50+ yard attempts in 7 games! For a freshman! Despite us not having surrendered more than 23 points in any game until this past Saturday. 

Is that an Anders Carlson problem? No. Just one more player being set up to fail by Gus. 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Whitlow has all the tools to be a great back in the SEC, not to mention the 'want to',  but he's a RS freshman and shouldn't have the RB1 role dumped on his shoulders this soon in his career.  He should be sitting behind an experienced RB or two, getting some mop up carries and learning the ropes this year, with a chance for an increased role next season and a shot at the starting role as a junior.  He's very talented, just raw.

But Gus has failed to recruit consistently at one of the most important positions on the field for his run/play-action based offensive scheme.  So we end up stuck in neutral when one RB goes down like Kerryon did.  Other schools not named Bama or UGA have more than one Power 5 caliber back on the roster at a time.  That's unacceptable roster management.

Totally agree with you here.

My initial point was only that the next coach will step into a much better situation than coaches filling vacancies typically do. With regards to the running back position specifically, I think there is plenty of reason for optimism that the freshmen we've got will produce in a reasonably functional offense. And, yes, we absolutely need to start competing with the big boys moving forward. Things look to be headed that way, or at least were. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

How bad is Gus?

Audience: HOW BAD IS HEEEEE????

He's so bad, I've seen TitanTiger post more in the few days than in the last couple of years!

Audience:. HAHAHAHAHA.....

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

he's a RS freshman and shouldn't have the RB1 role dumped on his shoulders this soon in his career

Just wanted to come back and highlight this. You can extrapolate this across much of the offense. A lot of guys with very little experience in key spots. I personally am not going to mistake their inexperience- compounded by the inexperience around them and the confusion above them- for a lack of talent. 

[chimes 442]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

We are tied for 11th in the country in tackles for a loss. Is our DL really that bad? Also, are we considering *everything else* going on with the team?

Regarding the running backs, yeah, they'd look different on a different team where blocking by the offensive line was a concept.

Stidham isn't a "fit" problem. He fit just fine last year. Yes, the complete ineptitude of his OL and his coach are exposing every weakness in his game this season.

Shivers is a true freshman and will fit just fine in any functional offense that has blocking and sensible play calling. He could've been OMac in 2010 or Corey Grant in 2013 or Eli Stove in 2017. And will be better than at least 2 of them if given a chance. 

 

Our DL is not bad and I haven’t said they are. Others have also pointed out that we always seem to have more than our fair share of tweeners- especially on the end. 

Again, the “blocking “ by the OL has been abhorrent this year. I’d be crazy to argue otherwise. It’s also not fair to blame every single negative play on offense on them. Sometimes they do hold blocks and Stidham still can’t see or hit wide open receivers. Sometimes they do open lanes and our RBs either don’t see the hole or so often go down on first contact. I just don’t think it’s fair or accurate to blame every single offensive issue on the OL 100% of the time. 

We’ll have to agree to disagree on Stidham being a fit issue. Gus’ offenses at Auburn have been markedly more successful with mobile QBs running the read option. 

Shivers is a true freshman and could end up being better than all those guys. Problem I see right now is that he’s being asked to fill a traditional RB role and those other guys weren’t.