Trump: Americans who died in war are 'losers' and 'suckers'

[Mikey 16,751]

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

Peter Strzok:

Bwahahaha! He's subject to do jail time for his lies.

[TitanTiger 20,521]

I think at this point, unless some of the anonymous sources decide to risk it and go on the record, nothing is going to move people from their current positions.

Here's what I'm curious about though.  For those who currently plan to vote for the President and who believe this story is either entirely false or grossly twisted out of context in some way, a hypothetical:  

If Trump actually said all the things he's accused of in this article, would it change your vote - either to abstaining or going third party, or to Biden to send the GOP a message?

 

[homersapien 11,459]

12 hours ago, Mikey said:

Bwahahaha! He's subject to do jail time for his lies.

Wrong.

"The revelation of the text messages led Republican congressmen and right wing media to speculate that Strzok participated in a conspiracy to undermine the Trump presidency.^{[13][14][15][16]} A comprehensive review in February 2018 of Strzok's messages by The Wall Street Journal concluded that "texts critical of Mr. Trump represent a fraction of the roughly 7,000 messages, which stretch across 384 pages and show no evidence of a conspiracy against Mr. Trump".^[17]

On August 10, 2018, David Bowdich, the FBI deputy director, fired Strzok for the anti-Trump text messages.^[2] On August 6, 2019, Strzok filed a wrongful termination suit against the FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice, asking to be reinstated and awarded back pay. He asserted in the suit that his text messages were "protected political speech," and that his termination violated the First Amendment.^[18] In December 2019, a report by the Justice Department inspector general found that Strzok was not motivated by bias in his work on the FBI investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 elections.^[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Strzok

[homersapien 11,459]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:50 AM, AURex said:

If you actually Fact Check Trumps trumpeting, you'll find that (1) Congress allocates funding for the military as has always been the case, and the President just signs the bill, (2)) during the Great Recession, spending caps passed by the Republican-controlled congress were enacted that limited spending in ALL areas of government, including the military, (3) the amount actually spent under the trumpers administration, inflation adjusted, is no better than during the Obama administration, and (4) despite the liar in chief's claims, the majority of the money allocated for the military has not been spent ofn jets, ships, bombs, rockets, etc.

Fact Check that Trump has rebuilt the military is mostly False.

Fact Check #1

Fact Check #2

Fact is, the U.S. spends amazingly huge amounts of money -- FAR more than any other country -- on military. Much of it is unaccounted for, much of it is wasted, and most of it is a total waste.

But the budget is not the issue. His comments about our military and our veterans are the issue. And for that, he will be held accountable.

 

 

It figures Mikey would facepalm a recitation of simple facts. 

 

[TitanTiger 20,521]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It figures Mikey would facepalm a recitation of simple facts. 

He probably didn't read it.  

[AUFAN78 3,926]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:18 AM, homersapien said:

First, there is no such thing as a legal charge of "collusion", which in fact did happen.  It was a charge of "criminal conspiracy" that Miller failed to assert. 

And Miller never even considered the counter-intelligence aspects of Trump's relationship with Putin and the Russians as the interview with Peter Strzok I posted in the "serious" thread made clear:

 

Peter Strzok: In counterintelligence, when we say somebody is “compromised,” that doesn’t necessarily mean they are a Manchurian candidate or a spy who has been wittingly recruited. I don’t think that Trump, when he meets with Putin, receives a task list for the next quarter. But I do think the president is compromised, that he is unable to put the interests of our nation first, that he acts from hidden motives, because there is leverage over him, held specifically by the Russians but potentially others as well. For example, when he is on the campaign trail saying I have no financial relationships with Russia, while at the very same time, his lawyer Michael Cohen is in Moscow negotiating a deal for a Trump Tower, there are people who know that. Vladimir Putin knows that. As it happened, the FBI knew it. But nobody in the American public knew it. So the moment that he says it, everybody who knows about that lie has leverage over him.

(Conor Friedersdorf: Donald Trump gave Russia leverage over his presidency)

But that one incident is part of a pervasive pattern of conduct. Look at Trump’s failure to disclose his taxes, look at the story of his telephone call with the president of Ukraine. Time and time again, Trump is fighting tooth and nail to avoid things becoming public. If you’re a foreign intelligence service and you are able to use all of your tools to collect information—to intercept emails, intercept phone calls, recruit people or place people in the president’s orbit who can supply information—you are going to find out about the things that Trump is trying so hard to conceal because they would be damaging to him. That gives you coercive leverage. And that begins to explain why he has time and time again done these inexplicable things that have no positive outcome for U.S. national interests.

Applebaum: For example?

Strzok: Like, for example, why did he not take stronger action against the Russians for placing bounties on American soldiers in Afghanistan? Why has he, for no apparent reason, moved 11,000 American troops out of Germany? Or here’s an obscure one: Why did he parrot Russian propaganda and call Montenegro a “very aggressive” nation when that country had just joined NATO? Everybody knows damn well that Donald Trump couldn’t find Montenegro on a map. Who’s putting these ideas in his head?

Applebaum: Or why doesn’t he speak out against the poisoning of the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, or why hasn’t he spoken up for the democracy movement in Belarus? Do you think that there are other ways in which Trump is beholden to foreign powers?

Strzok: It seems clear to me from public reporting that there are more.

 

Bottom line, there is more to find out and it will eventually come to light.

 

 

Strzok is a liar and threat to America. Lock him up!

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/peter-strzok-claim-about-russia-investigation-origins-contradicted-by-robert-mueller-and-doj-inspector-general

[AURex 2,035]

This is not about "collusion". It is about the fact that, throughout his administration, Trump has disparaged and condescended on our veterans, our POWs, and our war dead. Over and over.  He just doesn't get why any American would volunteer to risk his life for his country - in his own words, they are "suckers", he is a fact-confirmed draft dodger, he considers POWs like McCain losers, he considers those who serve our country in wartime and die, "losers", and he has zero respect for our military forces.

Shart gooey diarrhea on his head an rub it into his eyes. He is an abomination and a traitor to our country.

 

[Mikey 16,751]

15 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

If Trump actually said all the things he's accused of in this article, would it change your vote - either to abstaining or going third party, or to Biden to send the GOP a message?

Absolutely not. People looking at Trump are looking in the wrong direction. Look the other way and see what you've got. The alternative to Trump is a babbling idiot incapable of negotiating anything and an avowed socialist. Their plans for increased taxes, destruction of the suburbs, Green New Deal, gun control, tacit support of barbarian groups such as ANTIFA and BLM, free college for all, free Medicare for all, ad nausea, would ruin America as we have known it.

Trump may be a B movie, but Biden/Harris/Pelosi is a real horror show.

[TitanTiger 20,521]

Damn. Trump was right. He really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose votes. There’s literally no depth he could sink to where folks wouldn’t follow him down. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

18 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Damn. Trump was right. He really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose votes. There’s literally no depth he could sink to where folks wouldn’t follow him down. 

It's a cult of personality to which this country has never seen before.  McCarthyism of course comes to mind and you could argue Teddy Roosevelt or Andrew Jackson to a degree, but this is a whole new level.

I mean, here you have an admitted voter saying that if Trump actually said those things about our WW1 heroes, then it still wouldn't matter   And this is the same guy who got mad because people didn't stand for the anthem since it "disrespected our troops".

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

And this is the same guy who got mad because people didn't stand for the anthem since it "disrespected our troops".

Ain't it something?

[TitanTiger 20,521]

7 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

It's a cult of personality to which this country has never seen before.  McCarthyism of course comes to mind and you could argue Teddy Roosevelt or Andrew Jackson to a degree, but this is a whole new level.

I mean, here you have an admitted voter saying that if Trump actually said those things about our WW1 heroes, then it still wouldn't matter   And this is the same guy who got mad because people didn't stand for the anthem since it "disrespected our troops".

“Disrespecting the troops” is A-ok if you’re Our Lord and Savior Trump. Only a problem if you’re black or a Dem. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

“Disrespecting the troops” is A-ok if you’re Our Lord and Savior Trump. Only a problem if you’re black or a Dem. 

He's literally dictating to these people what they think and will accept. A spectacularly vile man who speaks at a 4th-grade level is telling them who they are and what they want. 

 

[AUFAN78 3,926]

11 hours ago, AURex said:

This is not about "collusion". It is about the fact that, throughout his administration, Trump has disparaged and condescended on our veterans, our POWs, and our war dead. Over and over.  He just doesn't get why any American would volunteer to risk his life for his country - in his own words, they are "suckers", he is a fact-confirmed draft dodger, he considers POWs like McCain losers, he considers those who serve our country in wartime and die, "losers", and he has zero respect for our military forces.

Shart gooey diarrhea on his head an rub it into his eyes. He is an abomination and a traitor to our country.

 

Simply not true. As a vet I can not allow you to lie like that. No offense, but that was a blatant lie. Do better.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Fuentes also told Fox News he is not the source for the Atlantic article. He said he was in the room for all of the conversations regarding the trip to the Aisne-Marne cemetery, and that he would know what was and wasn't said.

Fuentes -- who worked under then-chief of staff John Kelly -- also claimed to Breitbart that his former boss would not have tolerated such disdain for the armed forces, even from the president.

"Honestly, do you think General Kelly would have stood by and let ANYONE call fallen Marines losers?” he told the publication.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-thanks-john-kelly-aide-denies-atlantic-story#

[Mikey 16,751]

17 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Damn. Trump was right. He really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose votes. There’s literally no depth he could sink to where folks wouldn’t follow him down. 

Again, stop fixating on President Trump and consider the dismal alternative. Trump cannot lose my vote. The Democrats could have won my vote with a centrist ticket. Instead, their ticket is the most left-wing ticket in modern times.

To not vote for Trump is to not vote for America.

@TitanTiger I have seen you call yourself a conservative. You say Trump is not a conservative and I'll give you that if you want it. However, how in this world, as a conservative, can you not vote AGAINST the Biden/Harris ticket? No, abstaining or writing in a third party is not voting against Biden/Harris. There are only two viable candidates in this race. People can vote for one, vote for the other or abdicate their responsibility. Any conservative should, in good conscience, while holding his nose if necessary, vote to re-elect the President.

[Mikey 16,751]

8 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Simply not true. As a vet I can not allow you to lie like that. No offense, but that was a blatant lie. Do better.

They are following the old adage; "People will question a little lie. Tell a big enough lie and some will believe it".

 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

36 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Again, stop fixating on President Trump and consider the dismal alternative. Trump cannot lose my vote. The Democrats could have won my vote with a centrist ticket. Instead, their ticket is the most left-wing ticket in modern times.

To not vote for Trump is to not vote for America.

@TitanTiger I have seen you call yourself a conservative. You say Trump is not a conservative and I'll give you that if you want it. However, how in this world, as a conservative, can you not vote AGAINST the Biden/Harris ticket? No, abstaining or writing in a third party is not voting against Biden/Harris. There are only two viable candidates in this race. People can vote for one, vote for the other or abdicate their responsibility. Any conservative should, in good conscience, while holding his nose if necessary, vote to re-elect the President.

IT'S THE PLATFORM.

"It's the platform."

It's the platform. 

Worldview usually drives the platform preference, but there are exceptions. Fixate upon Biden/Trump if you must, but it's. the. platform...and that's been the issue all along.  Each of us knows it, no matter the side, the article posted or dissed, and the lipstick-pig wars that define it all. 

Polls should mobilize all people who care to cast their lone vote...but if you think people are honest about their views when asked or if polls themselves are as reliable as some wish they were...Kansas, nevermind Arizona, oceanfront is calling. 

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Very interesting.........

 

[TitanTiger 20,521]

12 hours ago, Mikey said:

Again, stop fixating on President Trump and consider the dismal alternative. Trump cannot lose my vote. The Democrats could have won my vote with a centrist ticket. Instead, their ticket is the most left-wing ticket in modern times.

To not vote for Trump is to not vote for America.

@TitanTiger I have seen you call yourself a conservative. You say Trump is not a conservative and I'll give you that if you want it. However, how in this world, as a conservative, can you not vote AGAINST the Biden/Harris ticket? No, abstaining or writing in a third party is not voting against Biden/Harris. There are only two viable candidates in this race. People can vote for one, vote for the other or abdicate their responsibility. Any conservative should, in good conscience, while holding his nose if necessary, vote to re-elect the President.

Here's the best analogy I can give you.

If you're actually a conservative, then you recognize that Trump is not.  He is in fact, a cancer that is eating conservatism alive from within, infesting limb and organ with a deadly mutation at the cellular level.  And the longer you give cancer its way unimpeded the weaker and more likely to die you will be.

Biden/Harris is chemotherapy.  Under normal circumstances, a healthy person wouldn't use either.  Chemo is actually a poison.  It will wreak havoc on you in many ways that a healthy person would never choose to go through.  It would be pointless.  But for a person with cancer, it's a shot to live and recover.  You have to go through the side effects of the chemo to kill the cancer and give normal, healthy cells a chance to replicate again.  Eventually, hopefully, you come off the chemo and can go back to a normal life again.

The Democrats are not the party I want in the White House under normal circumstances.  There is much about their policies and philosophy of government that I disagree with.  But Trump is a cancer that is killing the GOP, killing conservatism, decimating the witness of conservative Christianity, and he and his entire nepotistic clan needs to be purged from politics for good. Conservatives need to do some serious soul-searching and relearn what it means to say you're a conservative and to even understand what the hell it is that you're looking to "conserve" in the first place.  To recover some of the humanity, honor, and decency that some of our past leaders had by the barge-load that Trump doesn't have a thimble-full of.  

Hopefully four years of chemo will do the trick and the GOP can come back a stronger, smarter, more worthwhile expression of political thought in this country.  But you won't get there without the chemo.

[johnnyAU 3,655]

If the cancer would be gone after 4 more years, I might not choose chemotherapy.  The GOP can recover from the Trump era.  Can the Democrats prevent themselves from being completely absorbed from within by the progressives, or is a third party eventually inevitable?  The edges are stretching the center thin on both sides. Can the center regain any resemblance of its former self? That would require compromise and setting aside partisanship, which has been looking more formidable over the past dozen years or so.

[TitanTiger 20,521]

7 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

If the cancer would be gone after 4 more years, I might not choose chemotherapy.  The GOP can recover from the Trump era.  Can the Democrats prevent themselves from being completely absorbed from within by the progressives, or is a third party eventually inevitable?  The edges are stretching the center thin on both sides. Can the center regain any resemblance of its former self? That would require compromise and setting aside partisanship, which has been looking more formidable over the past dozen years or so.

Cancer doesn't work that way.  There's no faith healer and no waiting it out.

[johnnyAU 3,655]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Cancer doesn't work that way.  There's no faith healer and no waiting it out.

Yes, that's why comparing it to cancer in the first place is an inaccurate, hyperbolic analogy.  No need for a faith healer. Just time itself. 

[TitanTiger 20,521]

1 minute ago, johnnyAU said:

Yes, that's why comparing it to cancer in the first place is an inaccurate, hyperbolic analogy.  No need for a faith healer. Just time itself. 

Trumpism will wreck the GOP for far longer than four more years if you let it.  Could be a decade.  Could be generational.

[johnnyAU 3,655]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Trumpism will wreck the GOP for far longer than four more years if you let it.  Could be a decade.  Could be generational.

I do not share your fear. I have faith that 8 years of Trump, and 2 consecutive elections with crap choices on both sides will bring forth some necessary reflections and real change to both parties. The democrats moving farther and farther left to appease the progressive base will hopefully at some point have a rebound effect as well.