The VP debate

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Much more respectable, much more in line with what you'd expect grown ups to behave like than that sorry display from Trump earlier.

I came away feeling like both sides held serve.  Pence stabilized the ship but I don't think landed enough punches to gain ground.  Harris played it safe, didn't take every opening that was there but didn't do anything that gave the Trump campaign a good foothold or opening to work with.

I also came away thinking that, regardless of whether you agree with Pence or believe what he says, it should be clear as day that if he were the one at the top of the ticket with someone other than Trump as his VP pick, this race would be tight as a tick right now.  He's a much better candidate and it's a shame that Republicans have sold their soul to the carnival barker occupying that office right now.

[SocialCircle 570]

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Much more respectable, much more in line with what you'd expect grown ups to behave like than that sorry display from Trump earlier.

I came away feeling like both sides held serve.  Pence stabilized the ship but I don't think landed enough punches to gain ground.  Harris played it safe, didn't take every opening that was there but didn't do anything that gave the Trump campaign a good foothold or opening to work with.

I also came away thinking that, regardless of whether you agree with Pence or believe what he says, it should be clear as day that if he were the one at the top of the ticket with someone other than Trump as his VP pick, this race would be tight as a tick right now.  He's a much better candidate and it's a shame that Republicans have sold their soul to the carnival barker occupying that office right now.

I really like Mike Pence. I like him by far more than the other 3 people on these tickets. 

[AUDub 11,184]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Much more respectable, much more in line with what you'd expect grown ups to behave like than that sorry display from Trump earlier.

I came away feeling like both sides held serve.  Pence stabilized the ship but I don't think landed enough punches to gain ground.  Harris played it safe, didn't take every opening that was there but didn't do anything that gave the Trump campaign a good foothold or opening to work with.

I also came away thinking that, regardless of whether you agree with Pence or believe what he says, it should be clear as day that if he were the one at the top of the ticket with someone other than Trump as his VP pick, this race would be tight as a tick right now.  He's a much better candidate and it's a shame that Republicans have sold their soul to the carnival barker occupying that office right now.

The fly ruined completely it for Pence. Pestilence jokes abound. 

[DKW 86 7,441]

Was up in IN for several weeks before he was named VP. On tv he came off as a robot, a stepford pol. Add in his religious overzealousnes and came off to me in 2016 as a modern day  “church lady.”

[RunInRed 16,492]

I got nothing out of it but entertainment value ...

My favorite line ... “you know what debt is? That’s when you owe somebody else MON-EY.”

[ShocksMyBrain 9,373]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

The fly ruined completely it for Pence. Pestilence jokes abound. 

It’s a hot meme market right now. 
 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Debate was pretty meh.  They both dodged question after question.  Pence certainly helped stabilize a few things, but I also think he hurt himself with women by constantly interrupting Harris.  Her "I'm talking" comment will resonate with a ton of women who feel like they aren't heard by men in the workplace or at home.

Polls won't move based on this debate though.  This election is ALL about Trump and he will undoubtedly do or say something in the next 24-48 hours that will shift all narratives away from tonight.

[AUFriction 1,179]

It was in some ways the antithesis of the presidential debate. In some ways, it wasn’t all that different. Neither candidate really answered the questions as asked. Most of the tome, Kamala would start to answer the question. But then she’d almost immediately shift to something only tangentially related to directly attack Trump. Pence tonight was the king of talk a lot and say very little. He would almost immediately pivot to an unrelated topic. 
 

Still, Kamala answered about 3 questions actually very well. While I think Pence dodged pretty much any question.

 

I actually think polls will move a little. There were a lot of people on the left holding back on Biden because of Harris. I think she gained votes from that group.

[ArgoEagle 1,798]

Pretty sure Kamala Harris set the record for number of bald face lies told in a debate.

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Debate was pretty meh.  They both dodged question after question.  Pence certainly helped stabilize a few things, but I also think he hurt himself with women by constantly interrupting Harris.  Her "I'm talking" comment will resonate with a ton of women who feel like they aren't heard by men in the workplace or at home.

Polls won't move based on this debate though.  This election is ALL about Trump and he will undoubtedly do or say something in the next 24-48 hours that will shift all narratives away from tonight.

Completely agree.

I would guess that most decided voters heard enough of what they wanted to hear from their candidate and most undecideds heard very little of value. 

But you're right about Pence and the chauvinist and patronizing behavior. Can't imagine many undecideds would be significantly moved by a veep engaging in veiled misogyny when his boss has spent decades in public life shouting it in their faces and collecting sexual assault lawsuits, but you're right that it registered. There's also a racial aspect to it. Again, though, it was a much more subtle version  from a far less important person than what those undecideds have already, evidently, become immune to. 

To viewers who actually have experience interacting with diverse acquaintances, it is recognized that Harris was being baited into fulfilling the "angry black woman" stereotype- which would have been a far more composed and elegant personage than anything Pence's boss is capable of under even the most ordinary of circumstances- and she easily avoided it. She displayed admirable restraint and composure.

Given the current context of the race, Pence probably needed a win he didn't get, and Harris succeeded in not screwing it up. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I think Pence's behavior will be read by some as patronizing, racial, or chauvinist, but I don't think that's fair with an objective look at it.  The tactic he employed is one that's been used by candidates on both sides for decades in debates.  If a man had been sitting in Kamala's chair, he'd have still interrupted the same amount, still taken liberties with going over his time, still used phrases like "you're entitled to your opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts."  And I know this because I've watched it dozens of times before now in prior debates.

It won't stop people from reading ill intent (misogyny, racism, condescension) into it, but I don't think it's accurate.  Just like Harris shouldn't have to pull her punches to avoid the "angry black woman" stereotype, Pence shouldn't have to pull his and play nicer because his opponent is a woman.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think Pence's behavior will be read by some as patronizing, racial, or chauvinist, but I don't think that's fair with an objective look at it.  The tactic he employed is one that's been used by candidates on both sides for decades in debates.  If a man had been sitting in Kamala's chair, he'd have still interrupted the same amount, still taken liberties with going over his time, still used phrases like "you're entitled to your opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts."  And I know this because I've watched it dozens of times before now in prior debates.

It won't stop people from reading ill intent (misogyny, racism, condescension) into it, but I don't think it's accurate.  Just like Harris shouldn't have to pull her punches to avoid the "angry black woman" stereotype, Pence should have to pull his and play nicer because his opponent is a woman.

That's a reasonable take on it, despite Pence's abhorrent stances and track record on gender issues. 

But in both debates, I would argue that the Republican candidate was the beneficiary of a double standard and enthusiastically exploited that fact. What's scary is that trump was simultaneously far less civilized about it and far more successful in making sure his own flung feces stuck to his opponent. I get that the objective is victory and not decency, but it's sad that decency has ceased to be a victory unto itself. 

Sorry. Not a trump thread. I do hear you and it's a fair take. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

That's a reasonable take on it, despite Pence's abhorrent stances and track record on gender issues. 

But in both debates, I would argue that the Republican candidate was the beneficiary of a double standard and enthusiastically exploited that fact. What's scary is that trump was simultaneously far less civilized about it and far more successful in making sure his own flung feces stuck to his opponent. I get that the objective is victory and not decency, but it's sad that decency has ceased to be a victory unto itself. 

Sorry. Not a trump thread. I do hear you and it's a fair take. 

I agree, Pence benefitted from a double standard.  He was able to get away with things that, while they are normal debating tactics we've seen dozens of times before, could not be employed to the same degree by Harris or she risks the "angry woman" or "angry black woman" stereotype.

I'm not sure what double standard Trump exploited over Biden though.  Expound on that one.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

I agree, Pence benefitted from a double standard.  He was able to get away with things that, while they are normal debating tactics we've seen dozens of times before, could not be employed to the same degree by Harris or she risks the "angry woman" or "angry black woman" stereotype.

I'm not sure what double standard Trump exploited over Biden though.  Expound on that one.

Ever been one of two kids in the back seat of a car, and the other one is doing that thing where they point their finger in your face and keep saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you"? And you're expected to just sit there and take it? And as soon as you slap that hand away or retaliate in any other manner, that car jerks over to the side of the road and both asses take a spanking?

That's pretty much exactly what happened to Biden. The narrative after the fact was some version of "two angry old men yelling at each other", when it was clearly one angry, stupid, petulant, monkey ass clown harassing another guy into an occasional swat. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Ever been one of two kids in the back seat of a car, and the other one is doing that thing where they point their finger in your face and keep saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you"? And you're expected to just sit there and take it? And as soon as you slap that hand away or retaliate in any other manner, that car jerks over to the side of the road and both asses take a spanking?

That's pretty much exactly what happened to Biden. The narrative after the fact was some version of "two angry old men yelling at each other", when it was clearly one angry, stupid, petulant, monkey ass clown harassing another guy into an occasional swat. 

Ah...the "both sides" false equivalency default people go to when they want to avoid calling something what it is and want to look non-partisan (or when they just want to deflect from their side's bad behavior).

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Ah...the "both sides" false equivalency default people go to when they want to avoid calling something what it is and want to look non-partisan (or when they just want to deflect from their side's bad behavior).

That's how I see it.

And usually both sides can make a case. But I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say that I don't think any of this qualifies as usual. 

I have no problem agreeing that last night's debate, however, came much closer to it, and that Pence's demeanor wasn't different than it's been in prior debates with male opponents. I'll give the guy that. He is steadfast AF. 

[kennypowers 1,431]

Pence is just a disgusting human-being.

[DKW 86 7,441]

13 hours ago, kennypowers said:

Pence is just a disgusting human-being.

The one thing positive i can say for Pence, he doesnt blow with the wind. He is who he is. To me, that is at least admirable. He is not HRC, Kerry, etc and just flip flops with every new focus group. He is however scarily non-changing in his views. You have to moderately flexible, in politics. You can have a spins and still be flexible. he is too rigid when I have seen him. It reminds me of some of the Stepford Pols in the 1960s. They all looked alike, sounded alike, didnt achieve much other than slowing needed change to a glacial pace. That is not a legacy to be honored and not a legacy that we longer need. 

[aubiefifty 16,915]

23 hours ago, ArgoEagle said:

Pretty sure Kamala Harris set the record for number of bald face lies told in a debate.

well hell name a few. i would love to hear it..............

[ArgoEagle 1,798]

18 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

well hell name a few. i would love to hear it..............

Trump will not condemn white supremacy; Several videos of him doing just that since 2016.        Trump called vets losers; people actually at the place in question said he never said that.      Biden and I will not ban tracking; Several videos of both of them promising they will ban tracking.   There you go

[aubiefifty 16,915]

1 minute ago, ArgoEagle said:

Trump will not condemn white supremacy; Several videos of him doing just that since 2016.        Trump called vets losers; people actually at the place in question said he never said that.      Biden and I will not ban tracking; Several videos of both of them promising they will ban tracking.   There you go

thank you. i am not going to argue because i disagree. i hope they do get rid of fracking because although it has been a couple of years or more fracking pollutes our water tables.

[aubiefifty 16,915]

21 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Ever been one of two kids in the back seat of a car, and the other one is doing that thing where they point their finger in your face and keep saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you"? And you're expected to just sit there and take it? And as soon as you slap that hand away or retaliate in any other manner, that car jerks over to the side of the road and both asses take a spanking?

That's pretty much exactly what happened to Biden. The narrative after the fact was some version of "two angry old men yelling at each other", when it was clearly one angry, stupid, petulant, monkey ass clown harassing another guy into an occasional swat. 

my sister would do that as well as pinching and i would get a smack from mom who happened to be driving. one day my sister did it one too many times and mom saw it in the rearview.let me tell you she pulled over and there was a reckoning........grins

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

my sister would do that as well as pinching and i would get a smack from mom who happened to be driving. one day my sister did it one too many times and mom saw it in the rearview.let me tell you she pulled over and there was a reckoning........grins

Bro, that must have been soooooo satisfying. To another reckoning in a little under a month.

 

[ArgoEagle 1,798]

3 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

thank you. i am not going to argue because i disagree. i hope they do get rid of fracking because although it has been a couple of years or more fracking pollutes our water tables.

You're welcome. I honestly don't know much about fracking, but that woman lied through her teeth the other night. You can tell when she is being called out bc she smiles really big, or giggles like a little girl, or shakes her head. I cannot stand to listen to her at all, much less when she is straight up lying.

[ArgoEagle 1,798]

15 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

Trump will not condemn white supremacy; Several videos of him doing just that since 2016.        Trump called vets losers; people actually at the place in question said he never said that.      Biden and I will not ban tracking; Several videos of both of them promising they will ban tracking.   There you go

You cannot legitimately face palm this Ichy. These are 3 indisputable lies she told. Look all 3 up you face palming troll.