Notebook:

[Hank2020 3,199]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

A Stan is a fanboy that can not and will not see any wrong in that person. Like this for instance you say anything besides it's everybody else fault you're "hating"

Gotcha

[bigbird 60,525]

Objectivity doesn't take sides.

@cole256 has made some great points and observations about Bo and his game. Those observations aren't wrong because they aren't flattering. He and I agree that the OL and QB are tied to each other and their respective performances.  The area we differ is in the way we see the cause/effect aspect.  He sees it more skewed toward the QB and I see it more on the OL.  Neither are necessarily right nor are they necessarily wrong.   Both cause major issues throughout the game and we need both groups to significantly improve over the last two years showings.

I think the new staff will either lead both groups to doing what is necessary or they will replace them with those that will. 

 

JMO

[augolf1716 21,153]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Objectivity doesn't take sides.

@cole256 has made some great points and observations about Bo and his game. Those observations aren't wrong because they aren't flattering. He and I agree that the OL and QB are tied to each other and their respective performances.  The area we differ is in the way we see the cause/effect aspect.  He sees it more skewed toward the QB and I see it more on the OL.  Neither are necessarily right nor are they necessarily wrong.   Both cause major issues throughout the game and we need both groups to significantly improve over the last two years showings.

I think the new staff will either lead both groups to doing what is necessary or they will replace them with those that will. 

 

JMO

ZZZZZZZZZZZ

[W.E.D 11,070]

13 hours ago, cole256 said:

You must have missed where I said you can disagree and I don't care. The fact that you constantly infer that I hate on Bo really shows your bias and what would you expect from a Stan? Ok everybody knows that you refuse to think Bo performed poorly. We got it

Hate on is slang, I'm sure you can understand that vs the boomers here.  It doesn't mean you actually hate him.

I'm not really a Bo Stan, I just don't think his career is fully written and he can still improve.  A true Stan would think he's amazing and always has been.  I've said he's pretty much not been good yet.

13 hours ago, cole256 said:

Ok everybody knows that you refuse to think Bo performed poorly. We got it

I thought you hated when people make up things you didn't say then try to use them against you???  I've been extremely objective about Bo and said numerous times he hasn't been good.

[Hank2020 3,199]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Objectivity doesn't take sides.

@cole256 has made some great points and observations about Bo and his game. Those observations aren't wrong because they aren't flattering. He and I agree that the OL and QB are tied to each other and their respective performances.  The area we differ is in the way we see the cause/effect aspect.  He sees it more skewed toward the QB and I see it more on the OL.  Neither are necessarily right nor are they necessarily wrong.   Both cause major issues throughout the game and we need both groups to significantly improve over the last two years showings.

I think the new staff will either lead both groups to doing what is necessary or they will replace them with those that will. 

 

JMO

I agree will replace if they have someone they perceive that will play closer to their expectations. I think we are probably closer to that happening at QB but not confident we are their on OL. I still have much confidence in what we have at existing starters in both those poison groups nd firmly believe the change in system and in coaching up will supply what is needed.

[cole256 17,077]

2 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Hate on is slang, I'm sure you can understand that vs the boomers here.  It doesn't mean you actually hate him.

I'm not really a Bo Stan, I just don't think his career is fully written and he can still improve.  A true Stan would think he's amazing and always has been.  I've said he's pretty much not been good yet.

I thought you hated when people make up things you didn't say then try to use them against you???  I've been extremely objective about Bo and said numerous times he hasn't been good.

I know it's slang butt even using the slang you saying I hate on him is hilariously Dunn dumb. I haven't said one thing about Bo that isn't true and just because I talk about what he's actually done as opposed to you wanting me to kiss his ass, I'm hating. If I had ever said something like Bo sucks and will never be a good QB he doesn't have a chance, that's hating. Me pointing out his footwork being horrible and it's something that a guy with his background shouldn't be at now......that's simple reality. 

And what irks me even more is guys like Seth Williams that actually got hate while he performed well people are nowhere to be found. As if Bo hasn't already received the benefit of doubt and leeway people champion for him but leave guys like I mentioned out to dry. I think that's pathetic. 

You saying you've been objective about Bo is hilarious. If you were objective you wouldn't get angry when someone else is being objective. 

And that's your variation of a Stan. My opinion a Stan is someone who argues about a guy just because he doesn't want to hear anything but praise to him. You constantly want to fight with me about Bo as if I care. I can't emphasize this enough, if I was wrong with what I see then I would've been wrong 2 years ago when I said it.....clearly the things I saw was right because it happened.

And if you have been objective I haven't seen it, that's not making stuff up. Clearly anybody reading this forum would think that you get upset when someone gives criticism to him, if not why would you find the need to put on your cape and try to start fights (like you did when you made up stuff, you saying I blamed everything on offense on Bo) you jumped in a debate being had where we both were doing just fine using your over hyping to try to make a point. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Objectivity doesn't take sides.

@cole256 has made some great points and observations about Bo and his game. Those observations aren't wrong because they aren't flattering. He and I agree that the OL and QB are tied to each other and their respective performances.  The area we differ is in the way we see the cause/effect aspect.  He sees it more skewed toward the QB and I see it more on the OL.  Neither are necessarily right nor are they necessarily wrong.   Both cause major issues throughout the game and we need both groups to significantly improve over the last two years showings.

I think the new staff will either lead both groups to doing what is necessary or they will replace them with those that will. 

 

JMO

The OL got drastically worse by independent rankings.  There was a massive drop off.  Bo stayed about the same in most metrics, got a little better in Comp %.  I think both his TD/Game and INT/Game went up.  YPA might have changed slightly.

He wasn't good, but stayed about level vs an all P5 slate with a much worse OL

[W.E.D 11,070]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And what irks me even more is guys like Seth Williams that actually got hate while he performed well people are nowhere to be found.

Agree with you on this.  Seth got a ton of hate for a variety of reasons.  Bo got in a yelling match with the OC and it kinda got washed under the rug.

[cole256 17,077]

6 hours ago, bigbird said:

Objectivity doesn't take sides.

@cole256 has made some great points and observations about Bo and his game. Those observations aren't wrong because they aren't flattering. He and I agree that the OL and QB are tied to each other and their respective performances.  The area we differ is in the way we see the cause/effect aspect.  He sees it more skewed toward the QB and I see it more on the OL.  Neither are necessarily right nor are they necessarily wrong.   Both cause major issues throughout the game and we need both groups to significantly improve over the last two years showings.

I think the new staff will either lead both groups to doing what is necessary or they will replace them with those that will. 

 

JMO

Thank you. That post wont get all the likes though lol.

I have many times said I think it's possible that Bo has a big turnaround with the improvement of both him and the o line. 

O line needs to be more consistent and Bo get more accurate and decisive production can jump up exponentially. 

I once said I think Bo is a little cocky and that is good and of course people had to have a problem with that, but that's also a big reason I think he can really do this. I think confidence is the difference between a guy whose great and a guy who's horrible. Frazier and Johnson had all the physical tools but bout time they had their confidence taken away it was over. Gus did the opposite with Bo and empowered him and imo that's why he may be able to overcome this.

Edited July 29, 2021 by cole256

[W.E.D 11,070]

7 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And that's your variation of a Stan. My opinion a Stan is someone who argues about a guy just because he doesn't want to hear anything but praise to him. You constantly want to fight with me about Bo as if I care. I can't emphasize this enough, if I was wrong with what I see then I would've been wrong 2 years ago when I said it.....clearly the things I saw was right because it happened.

I constantly argue with you for two reason.  I love to argue.  Message boards are my outlet for it b/c I'll drive my wife crazy when I do it too much.  Second, I think you're a bit overly harsh on him, while being accurate at the same time.

We don't necessarily disagree.  We just disagree more on his possible path forward.  I'm more bullish, where you're more bearish on him.  I think/hope better coaching and offense will help put him in better situations vs you believe he's had good coaching since middle school and new coaching probably isn't going to help.

Bo shouldn't get a pass from anyone.  I've said a few times if he doesn't get better, he's going to be replaced 2nd half of the PSU game

[cole256 17,077]

4 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

The OL got drastically worse by independent rankings.  There was a massive drop off.  Bo stayed about the same in most metrics, got a little better in Comp %.  I think both his TD/Game and INT/Game went up.  YPA might have changed slightly.

He wasn't good, but stayed about level vs an all P5 slate with a much worse OL

His yards was down td's was down and int was up. But everything about the same. He feasted on the bad teams and didn't really do anything against the good teams. So if you just want to look at stats and say the numbers say you can.....

I know for a fact bird knows that doesn't tell the story. Besides Kentucky and LSU he didn't have multiple td games.

The games where he was let loose and he was able to really throw the ball a considerable amount of times he wasn't good. Uga, South c, miss st, Northwestern. 

So ok you can blame the o line for that. What I'm saying is I've seen a bunch of QB's with an o line similar in talent and production still look good throwing the ball. That's it, there's really nothing to argue about, you can't say I'm wrong. I can't say I have proof without a shadow of doubt that with a better o line Bo won't get better. That's it

[W.E.D 11,070]

8 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I once said I think Bo is a little cocky and that is good and of course people had to have a problem with that, but that's also a big reason I think he can really do this.

LMAO who got mad that our starting QB has some swagger?  That's probably the best/only good thing about Bo's game right now.

[cole256 17,077]

5 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I constantly argue with you for two reason.  I love to argue.  Message boards are my outlet for it b/c I'll drive my wife crazy when I do it too much.  Second, I think you're a bit overly harsh on him, while being accurate at the same time.

We don't necessarily disagree.  We just disagree more on his possible path forward.  I'm more bullish, where you're more bearish on him.  I think/hope better coaching and offense will help put him in better situations vs you believe he's had good coaching since middle school and new coaching probably isn't going to help.

Bo shouldn't get a pass from anyone.  I've said a few times if he doesn't get better, he's going to be replaced 2nd half of the PSU game

Well maybe you'll stop arguing when you realize I haven't ever said Bo has had good coaching since middle school. That doesn't change that he should've been much further along than he has been in the fundamentals of being a QB. I haven't even been harsh on him. I'm purposely not so because if I ever do I know I'd give people who want to embellish ammunition. 

I've never said anything other that he needs to get more accurate and read defenses, and put time in and work on his fundamentals. That's it.

Where people on here has gotten mad at me is when I want say it's other people, not Bo. And I point out how privileged he has had it.

From that I'm a Bo hater, I'm against him because I wanted gatewood, I'm a Bo basher.....because I said he needs to get more accurate and improve his fundamentals....as if that can be disputed. If I said stuff that I critiqued Nick Marshall, Johnson, White and stidham on I guess I'd be banned

[cole256 17,077]

6 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

LMAO who got mad that our starting QB has some swagger?  That's probably the best/only good thing about Bo's game right now.

Show where I got mad about his swagger and I'll concede. If you can't you concede 

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

His yards was down td's was down and int was up. But everything about the same. He feasted on the bad teams and didn't really do anything against the good teams. So if you just want to look at stats and say the numbers say you can.....

I know for a fact bird knows that doesn't tell the story. Besides Kentucky and LSU he didn't have multiple td games.

The games where he was let loose and he was able to really throw the ball a considerable amount of times he wasn't good. Uga, South c, miss st, Northwestern. 

So ok you can blame the o line for that. What I'm saying is I've seen a bunch of QB's with an o line similar in talent and production still look good throwing the ball. That's it, there's really nothing to argue about, you can't say I'm wrong. I can't say I have proof without a shadow of doubt that with a better o line Bo won't get better. That's it

I don't disagree agree with you on a lot of this.  Stats are correct.  We really agree.  He wasn't really that good.

For me, USC is an example of why I think/hope decent coaching can help.  The entire gahd damn game the game plan was to attack Horn.  And Horn absolutely beasted on Seth Williams.  Why are we attacking the top corner in the nation as our priority game plan??  Why couldn't we do much of anything else to get Seth matched up on another corner.  It was an absolutely terrible game plan against an awful team with 1 elite player in their secondary.

[W.E.D 11,070]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well maybe you'll stop arguing when you realize I haven't ever said Bo has had good coaching since middle school. That doesn't change that he should've been much further along than he has been in the fundamentals of being a QB. I haven't even been harsh on him. I'm purposely not so because if I ever do I know I'd give people who want to embellish ammunition. 

I've never said anything other that he needs to get more accurate and read defenses, and put time in and work on his fundamentals. That's it.

Where people on here has gotten mad at me is when I want say it's other people, not Bo. And I point out how privileged he has had it.

From that I'm a Bo hater, I'm against him because I wanted gatewood, I'm a Bo basher.....because I said he needs to get more accurate and improve his fundamentals....as if that can be disputed. If I said stuff that I critiqued Nick Marshall, Johnson, White and stidham on I guess I'd be banned

I wanted Joey too, fwiw.

[cole256 17,077]

15 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I wanted Joey too, fwiw.

I wanted a QB that could move the sticks but Bo turned out to be a better athlete that I initially thought. I wanted this because I knew the o line would need help.

I also wanted a fair and healthy QB competition to force both to get better and we got anything but. 

Especially when all that was said about one was how he really shined when it was game time.....I figured he'd get an opportunity to run the offense at least once..   

[cole256 17,077]

But alright cool, there's nothing to argue about as far as this goes anymore right, we agree we all are eager and hopeful that different scheme, better coaching we hope to see better production and we're waiting to see. Right?

[W.E.D 11,070]

20 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I wanted a QB that could move the sticks but Bo turned out to be a better athlete that I initially thought. I wanted this because I knew the o line would need help.

I also wanted a fair and healthy QB competition to force both to get better and we got anything but. 

Especially when all that was said about one was how he really shined when it was game time.....I figured he'd get an opportunity to run the offense at least once..   

Some would say he's an elite athlete.  😀

I really hope we see our back up QBs run the real offense in the 4th quarter when we are up by a million

[W.E.D 11,070]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

But alright cool, there's nothing to argue about as far as this goes anymore right, we agree we all are eager and hopeful that different scheme, better coaching we hope to see better production and we're waiting to see. Right?

Yeah, def.  Everything is my opinion vs a stated fact.

I've been waiting for a real offense since Gus was hired.  Especially since NCAA took away Gus' only advantage then Gus became too stubborn and though his s*** offense could do well w/out a running QB threat and hurry up

[bigbird 60,525]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

The OL got drastically worse by independent rankings.  There was a massive drop off.  Bo stayed about the same in most metrics, got a little better in Comp %.  I think both his TD/Game and INT/Game went up.  YPA might have changed slightly.

He wasn't good, but stayed about level vs an all P5 slate with a much worse OL

You're not wrong

[W.E.D 11,070]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

You're not wrong

I actually am wrong on his TD per game.  That went down.  I ended up doing the math after saying it. Assumed the denominator going from 13 to 11 was enough, but it wasn't

[bigbird 60,525]

Just now, W.E.D said:

I actually am wrong on his TD per game.  That went down.  I ended up doing the math after saying it. Assumed the denominator going from 13 to 11 was enough, but it wasn't

I stand corrected. I accept your wrongness.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

I stand corrected. I accept your wrongness.

I'll try to do better.

[bigbird 60,525]

Just now, W.E.D said:

I'll try to do better.