Harsin Lost us this Game

[selias 2,398]

3 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I’m not a fan of our O line but Zierer is an exception. He looked great against both Arky and Bama. His block allowed Shenker to score the 2 pt conversion last night. Should’ve been starting all year in my opinion, and look forward to watching him next season. But he’s the only one I’m excited about. 

Cool, so now all we need is another OT, 2 OG and a C. Seriously folks, this is not a 1 year problem solve

[Hank2020 3,215]

3 hours ago, AUght2win said:

They really and truly haven't been. Continuing to play and throw with TJ and not understanding the importance of 3rd and 2 (the two points that the thread is built on) have been largely, if not wholly, ignored throughout this thread. The few attempts to justify it were "dumb" (if that's your buzzword).

Again, I have never seen a kid that badly injured asked to play an entire quarter of football. It will never be justifiable.

How long did Bo play?

[AUght2win 6,859]

11 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

How long did Bo play?

1 series after his injury. Finley finished the game. 

[Hank2020 3,215]

3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

1 series after his injury. Finley finished the game. 

That’s not the way I remember it, by could be wrong as I often find out.

[AUght2win 6,859]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I would be willing to bet the kids felt they let the coaching staff down after Saturday’s Iron Bowl.  Harsin never lost this team as you are suggesting.  Harsin didn’t hide in his shell after the USCe game, he came up with a game plan that was remarkable.  Those players were doing as they were coached and they believed in what they were doing.

Belief and motivation isn't the problem. The staff is great at getting the kids ready to go. It's the actual in-game-chess that we suck at right now. Goalline fade at PSU. 4th and 1 bomb at USC. Collapse and fake punt against MSU. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on how severe the game mismanagement actually is, but surely no one thinks the instances I mentioned are good or even inconsequential. 

Way too many "WTF did we just do" moments this year. I believe in CBH. I think he can be the guy. But these things shake my faith in him.

[AUght2win 6,859]

Just now, Hank2020 said:

That’s not the way I remember it, by could be wrong as I often find out.

IIRC Bo got hurt on the deep ball to #6. That drive ended with I believe a blocked FG. Bo led one more drive after that I believe and he was done.

[FormerlySec38Row34 56]

Three things were glaring errors in coaching. One, TJ was so hobbled that he gave bammer the chance to stuff the run game even worse than it already had. They could have at least tried Loy or DD. They could have gone back to TJ if they didn't work. Remember, TJ threw two int's and was throwing behind on many of his passes Two, Bigsby should have been coached better in the situation to know that he should have gotten down inside the lines and forced bammer to use their final timeout and run another 40 seconds off the clock before bammer's last, game-tying possession. Three Derrick Mason inexplicably stopped putting pressure on Young, giving him time to pick our secondary apart, all the way to the end zone. He went 98 yards in a minute and a half because he had time in the pocket. This game could have been won in regulation, as bad as the offense was playing in the second half (thanks to keeping a hobbled QB in the game).

[selias 2,398]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

What is with these people who believe only coaches should comment on football? You have any opinions on music? TV? Politics? Do you do all of those thing professionally, as well?

And also, I, along with most everyone else on this board excoriated Gus for his terrible decisions. Did you have the opinion of "let the coaches coach" during his tenure, too?

Some of us are just grounded in reality.

Are there individual plays I would've made a different decision? Sure.

Were there things that could've skewed this game toward an Auburn win? Absolutely.

That's not what you're saying though.The staff did the best they could with what they had. It's REAL easy to armchair QB/coach. When you're in the thick of it, you go with what you think is best. I have seen it and done it in my professional life (that isn't coaching)....after the dust has settled, I've gone back and said "I should've done ABC vs XYZ" many many times in my career. That's how the saying "Hindsight is 20/20" came about.

[AUght2win 6,859]

1 minute ago, selias said:

Some of us are just grounded in reality.

Are there individual plays I would've made a different decision? Sure.

Were there things that could've skewed this game toward an Auburn win? Absolutely.

That's not what you're saying though.The staff did the best they could with what they had. It's REAL easy to armchair QB/coach. When you're in the thick of it, you go with what you think is best. I have seen it and done it in my professional life (that isn't coaching)....after the dust has settled, I've gone back and said "I should've done ABC vs XYZ" many many times in my career. That's how the saying "Hindsight is 20/20" came about.

Right, but what's the difference between a glaring, first-guessing, obvious mistake and an unclear, difficult decision? Subjectivity. 

As I said, go check the game thread. I was screaming to get TJ out after the first pass. It was clear he couldn't go. And I was screaming to take a timeout before 3rd and 2 to come up with a play to get TWO YARDS to seal it. 

It's subjective. Personally, some of these mistakes we're making are indefensible. I've yet to see anyone come to the defense of not pounding Tank on 4th and 1 last weekend in Columbia. 

[I_M4_AU 7,948]

6 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Belief and motivation isn't the problem. The staff is great at getting the kids ready to go. It's the actual in-game-chess that we suck at right now. Goalline fade at PSU. 4th and 1 bomb at USC. Collapse and fake punt against MSU. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on how severe the game mismanagement actually is, but surely no one thinks the instances I mentioned are good or even inconsequential. 

Way too many "WTF did we just do" moments this year. I believe in CBH. I think he can be the guy. But these things shake my faith in him.

Harsin’s first year in the league was a rough one.  Some of the in-game decisions were questionable we can agree on that.  The proof will be if he has learned anything this year and will his in-game adjustment reflect what he learned.. Of course, we won’t find out until next year, but I’m looking forward to it.

[selias 2,398]

11 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Right, but what's the difference between a glaring, first-guessing, obvious mistake and an unclear, difficult decision? Subjectivity. 

As I said, go check the game thread. I was screaming to get TJ out after the first pass. It was clear he couldn't go. And I was screaming to take a timeout before 3rd and 2 to come up with a play to get TWO YARDS to seal it. 

It's subjective. Personally, some of these mistakes we're making are indefensible. I've yet to see anyone come to the defense of not pounding Tank on 4th and 1 last weekend in Columbia. 

I avoid the game threads like the plague. That area is the very epitome of irrational reactions. I know how I act during the games and I need time to clear my head and evaluate the overall situation. Until the past week, I usually agreed with your takes, however it seems you're doubling down on the irrationality. I get it. The season had pivotal moments that could've vaulted our alma mater into national discussion. However, as we've seen previously, that discussion can be fleeting. A culture is being changed and a foundation is being built. With that in mind, we all need to step away from the hot takes.

[AUght2win 6,859]

2 minutes ago, selias said:

I avoid the game threads like the plague. That area is the very epitome of irrational reactions. I know how I act during the games and I need time to clear my head and evaluate the overall situation. Until the past week, I usually agreed with your takes, however it seems you're doubling down on the irrationality. I get it. The season had pivotal moments that could've vaulted our alma mater into national discussion. However, as we've seen previously, that discussion can be fleeting. A culture is being changed and a foundation is being built. With that in mind, we all need to step away from the hot takes.

I don't even consider my takes "hot takes". It's more that the longer the season has gone on, the more we are learning more about this staff, and there are some signs that don't need to be ignored. A theme of stagnation and not finishing are not good things to exhibit. 

The optimist in me says these could just be a string of bad games. But it's hard to believe this historically bad month doesn't reflect a serious flaw in CBH's in game management (statistically biggest collapse in 130+ years of football against MSU, first AU coach in 45 years to finish season with 4 straight losses, blowing the Bama game where we had a situational statcast 99.9% win probability).

All I can judge by is the evidence of what I see. This hasn't been a normal month. At all. Even for a first year head coach.

[selias 2,398]

Just now, AUght2win said:

I don't even consider my takes "hot takes". It's more that the longer the season has gone on, the more we are learning more about this staff, and there are some signs that don't need to be ignored. A theme of stagnation and not finishing are not good things to exhibit. 

The optimist in me says these could just be a string of bad games. But it's hard to believe this historically bad month doesn't reflect a serious flaw in CBH's in game management (statistically biggest collapse in 130+ years of football against MSU, first AU coach in 45 years to finish season with 4 straight losses, blowing the Bama game where we had a situational statcast 99.9% win probability).

All I can judge by is the evidence of what I see. This hasn't been a normal month. At all. Even for a first year head coach.

You do realize that when the ball was kicked on Saturday, the staff had been together less than 12 months?

So, assemble a staff, begin a culture change, shift philosophies on both sides of the ball, evaluate available talent,  attempt to fill gaps in the xfer portal, identify future recruiting needs, establish HS relationships, actually do some coaching, etc. Oh, and doing all this inside a year within the most high pressure football conference in the country. They're coaches, not miracle workers.

[Hank2020 3,215]

4 minutes ago, selias said:

You do realize that when the ball was kicked on Saturday, the staff had been together less than 12 months?

So, assemble a staff, begin a culture change, shift philosophies on both sides of the ball, evaluate available talent,  attempt to fill gaps in the xfer portal, identify future recruiting needs, establish HS relationships, actually do some coaching, etc. Oh, and doing all this inside a year within the most high pressure football conference in the country. They're coaches, not miracle workers.

Great post IMO.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

41 minutes ago, FormerlySec38Row34 said:

Three things were glaring errors in coaching. One, TJ was so hobbled that he gave bammer the chance to stuff the run game even worse than it already had. They could have at least tried Loy or DD. They could have gone back to TJ if they didn't work. Remember, TJ threw two int's and was throwing behind on many of his passes Two, Bigsby should have been coached better in the situation to know that he should have gotten down inside the lines and forced bammer to use their final timeout and run another 40 seconds off the clock before bammer's last, game-tying possession. Three Derrick Mason inexplicably stopped putting pressure on Young, giving him time to pick our secondary apart, all the way to the end zone. He went 98 yards in a minute and a half because he had time in the pocket. This game could have been won in regulation, as bad as the offense was playing in the second half (thanks to keeping a hobbled QB in the game).

I know everyone is referring to Tank not going out of bounds and rightfully so. However, this is essentially what lost the game to me. How in the world do you not blitz at some point of them having to go 98 yards. 98 YARDS! Bama is playing for their playoff lives and have to complete 98 yards for a TD and that's the time we choose to not bring any pressure when we did so the entire game? I'm just still perplexed by it. Bama had only managed 3 points on our defense and it's in there hands. I honestly started celebrating after they ended up having to go 98 yards. I trusted the defense far more than the offense b/c the defense was the reason we even had a shot. It was just a blow to the gut seeing them drive 98 yards so easily.

[cbo 7,895]

2 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I’m totally working this into a work convo this week.
 

Thank you so very much!

Enjoy and use it wisely! 

[AUght2win 6,859]

17 minutes ago, selias said:

You do realize that when the ball was kicked on Saturday, the staff had been together less than 12 months?

So, assemble a staff, begin a culture change, shift philosophies on both sides of the ball, evaluate available talent,  attempt to fill gaps in the xfer portal, identify future recruiting needs, establish HS relationships, actually do some coaching, etc. Oh, and doing all this inside a year within the most high pressure football conference in the country. They're coaches, not miracle workers.

Two things, though. This isn't a total rebuild. Gus brought in talent (albeit not well balanced, with many positions depleted). With guys like Tank, McCreary, Zakoby, Bo, and other solid role players, we have enough, right now, to win more than 6 games. Certainly to beat teams like MSU and USC. 

The 2nd thing - CBH can't slow play this. We're 6-6 this year. We don't look like we'll be more talented next year, and we currently have any impact recruits committed to improve our record. Auburn fans won't be, and shouldn't be, be satisfied with 20 wins over the next 3 seasons. But that's where things seem to be headed. Success has to come faster than that.

So combo these two. We aren't beating less or equally talented teams in the present, nor are we outrecruiting our conference rivals. Realistically, what's the blueprint for winning down the road?

[selias 2,398]

12 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Two things, though. This isn't a total rebuild. Gus brought in talent (albeit not well balanced, with many positions depleted). With guys like Tank, McCreary, Zakoby, Bo, and other solid role players, we have enough, right now, to win more than 6 games. Certainly to beat teams like MSU and USC. 

The 2nd thing - CBH can't slow play this. We're 6-6 this year. We don't look like we'll be more talented next year, and we currently have any impact recruits committed to improve our record. Auburn fans won't be, and shouldn't be, be satisfied with 20 wins over the next 3 seasons. But that's where things seem to be headed. Success has to come faster than that.

So combo these two. We aren't beating less or equally talented teams in the present, nor are we outrecruiting our conference rivals. Realistically, what's the blueprint for winning down the road?

All 4 of the players you listed rely on their respective line, OL or DL. That's a huge problem in and of itself, or do you think position groups exist in a vacuum? One of the absolute best things and the one I love best about football is, it's a team sport. You can have an all world QB and RB but they do nothing without a solid OL. WR and TE catch nothing without a competent QB with protection from said OL. QB can have all the talent in the world but if the WR couldn't catch a cold, he looks awful. The reverse is true on the defense. The DL limits time available for the opposing QB to throw, shuts down running lanes or eats blocks for the LBs to get tackles. Your DB rely on the front 7 (DB & LB) to limit the amount of time they have to react to men of similar skill sets. By the same token, you could have phenomenal OL or DL but with nothing behind them, a team does nothing of any import.

Sure, Gus brought in Top XX rated classes but now we're paying for the willful ignorance in recruiting and/or lack of development for those instrumental cogs of the offense and defense. You're on the verge of Mikey like ridiculousness with that nonsense.

Again, CBH has been at Auburn for less than a year (hired late December IIRC) and after the initial signing period. That's not exactly a long time to get in the ears of recruits that have been hearing from everyone else since they were putting on pads for the freshman team. Yeah, the incoming class may not be full of stars but, JFC give these guys a chance to develop relationships with HS coaches and players.

What you're expecting of these coaches is absurd and I would hate to work with or for you based on what you're posting here.

[AUght2win 6,859]

30 minutes ago, selias said:

All 4 of the players you listed rely on their respective line, OL or DL. That's a huge problem in and of itself, or do you think position groups exist in a vacuum? One of the absolute best things and the one I love best about football is, it's a team sport. You can have an all world QB and RB but they do nothing without a solid OL. WR and TE catch nothing without a competent QB with protection from said OL. QB can have all the talent in the world but if the WR couldn't catch a cold, he looks awful. The reverse is true on the defense. The DL limits time available for the opposing QB to throw, shuts down running lanes or eats blocks for the LBs to get tackles. Your DB rely on the front 7 (DB & LB) to limit the amount of time they have to react to men of similar skill sets. By the same token, you could have phenomenal OL or DL but with nothing behind them, a team does nothing of any import.

Sure, Gus brought in Top XX rated classes but now we're paying for the willful ignorance in recruiting and/or lack of development for those instrumental cogs of the offense and defense. You're on the verge of Mikey like ridiculousness with that nonsense.

Again, CBH has been at Auburn for less than a year (hired late December IIRC) and after the initial signing period. That's not exactly a long time to get in the ears of recruits that have been hearing from everyone else since they were putting on pads for the freshman team. Yeah, the incoming class may not be full of stars but, JFC give these guys a chance to develop relationships with HS coaches and players.

What you're expecting of these coaches is absurd and I would hate to work with or for you based on what you're posting here.

You're getting in your feelings and personal. No need for all that. 

We can't suck in all areas for long. This time next year we either need to be vastly improved on the field or on the trail. And yes, both are possible.

Discussed this a few weeks ago. Chizik had a top 10 class his first full year. Smart's recruiting success was instant. Malzahn's was near instant. Saban's was instant. 

We're Auburn. Our program has come way too far to lower your expectations back down to the Barfield era. I'll give the CBH time and belief, but not in excess. We need to show some sort of improvement soon. Hope we close strong with this class.

[slyinsocal 831]

2 hours ago, AUght2win said:

You're getting in your feelings and personal. No need for all that. 

We can't suck in all areas for long. This time next year we either need to be vastly improved on the field or on the trail. And yes, both are possible.

Discussed this a few weeks ago. Chizik had a top 10 class his first full year. Smart's recruiting success was instant. Malzahn's was near instant. Saban's was instant. 

We're Auburn. Our program has come way too far to lower your expectations back down to the Barfield era. I'll give the CBH time and belief, but not in excess. We need to show some sort of improvement soon. Hope we close strong with this class.

24 hours later and failure is all you still see. Your claim to support Harsin is as empty as your next post. At least some people offer suggestions in play calls and strategy. But others? Nothing positive at all. Just criticism, panic, and end of the world. Where's your solution? Your plan? Anything? I remember the hopeless Barfield era, too. But hey, let's bring Chizik back! Saban, Smart, and Meyer broke rules left and right in plain sight. Can't help that.

It is sad to hope that 17-18 year old recruits, and their parents, will be wise enough to dismiss these....

https://vnexplorer.net/auburn-football-fans-are-ready-to-fire-bryan-harsin-after-blowing-iron-bowl-eu20213019740.html

https://papertribune.com/sports/auburn-football-fans-are-ready-to-fire-bryan-harsin-after-blowing-iron-bowl/

In favor of these....

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/auburns-bryan-harsin-has-honest-admission-on-coaching-rumors

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/179915-harsin-leaving-impressions/

Since you claim to support Harsin, what is your positive message to recruits? Let's hear it!

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by slyinsocal

[kevon67 2,368]

Lots of folks bitching about Bigsby..........none of which could take his position if given a chance..........with the momentum it was nearly impossible to slide........lets not forget he was trying to get the most out of the run....when your moving that fast you cant just stop.

[e808 3,028]

5 minutes ago, kevon67 said:

Lots of folks bitching about Bigsby..........none of which could take his position if given a chance..........with the momentum it was nearly impossible to slide........lets not forget he was trying to get the most out of the run....when your moving that fast you cant just stop.

Exactly , unless u want him to fall down once he cuts without attempting to get the needed yardage for a first. It was just an unlucky thing that happened as the Bama player used his momentum to ride him out of bounds. For him to just drop down as some hope probably would result in him sustaining an injury.

[slyinsocal 831]

57 minutes ago, kevon67 said:

Lots of folks bitching about Bigsby..........none of which could take his position if given a chance..........with the momentum it was nearly impossible to slide........lets not forget he was trying to get the most out of the run....when your moving that fast you cant just stop.

Don't blame him for a second. He's our rock. He'd taken a beating all game, hitting wall after wall after wall. For once he sees hope around the corner. And if he uses this as fuel to leave, who the hell could blame him?

[AUght2win 6,859]

2 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

24 hours later and failure is all you still see. Your claim to support Harsin is as empty as your next post. At least some people offer suggestions in play calls and strategy. But others? Nothing positive at all. Just criticism, panic, and end of the world. Where's your solution? Your plan?

It's amazing how some people will just lie. 

The literal start of this thread suggested pulling TJ for DD and running the read option. 

I also suggested calling a timeout prior to the 3rd and 2 to dial up a play to seal it (the Shenker throwback would have worked).

I suggested running tank on 4th and goal at PSU and 4th and 1 at USCe. I've offered alternatives to every problem I've raised throughout the season. And chiefly, the most consistent idea I've offered is replacing Mike Bobo with someone young and dynamic.

You need to either be honest about this stuff or do your due diligence in reading what's been written. 

[slyinsocal 831]

24 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

It's amazing how some people will just lie. 

The literal start of this thread suggested pulling TJ for DD and running the read option. 

I also suggested calling a timeout prior to the 3rd and 2 to dial up a play to seal it (the Shenker throwback would have worked).

I suggested running tank on 4th and goal at PSU and 4th and 1 at USCe. I've offered alternatives to every problem I've raised throughout the season. And chiefly, the most consistent idea I've offered is replacing Mike Bobo with someone young and dynamic.

You need to either be honest about this stuff or do your due diligence in reading what's been written. 

And didn't I say your show of support lasts about as long as the next post? What about that? And what about the rest? Anything positive? At all? What would you tell a recruit and his family? That this staff stinks and will be bashed repeatedly after they put their trust in them? I'll never coach a game and neither will you. But our support, with a first year staff, through thick and thin. is what really matters. Especially in the toughest of times. I was wrong. You're a fountain of optimism with a positive outlook towards the future. Excuse me. Try looking up the definition of wisdom and expressing some, or is that a foreign concept?

Edited November 29, 2021 by slyinsocal