Harsin saying 6-6 is not a good first year.

[DAG 34,054]

20 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

Some of our points: Then hire a guy that will get us out of 8-4, not someone who will continue to be there or worse.

Lil Nickie, the greatest coach in the history of college football…. maybe hire a guy that can beat him three times in seven years. On a sidenote, Kirby Smart sure can’t do it.

Kirby Smart owned Gus though so there is that.

[AU-24 3,121]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Kirby Smart owned Gus though so there is that.

You are correct! And Little Nicky didn’t, so there is that!
 

My point: why spend $30 million to get rid of a 8-4 Guy, to hire another 8-4 guy?

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

[DAG 34,054]

5 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

You are correct! And Little Nicky didn’t, so there is that!
 

My point: why spend $30 million to get rid of a 8-4 Guy, to hire another 8-4 guy?

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

I agree with all of that. I just don’t know why you are taking pot shots at Kirby lol. I would jump hop skip for someone like him to be our head coach. 

[AU-24 3,121]

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

I agree with all of that. I just don’t know why you are taking pot shots at Kirby lol. I would jump hop skip for someone like him to be our head coach. 

I understand, but that certainly is not who we hired. 

[nurbis 579]

24 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

But Bruce Pearl still needed a couple of years to get his system and players in place before he started winning. He didn't have a winning season until year 3 and he didn't have a winning season in conference until year 4. I pointed this out in another thread, but Pearl actually did worse in the SEC in his first year than Barbee did in his last.

The hill for Harsin to climb shouldn't be as steep as it was for Pearl in basketball but at some point we have to accept it will take some time to fix some of the major issues left by Malzahn. 

[The Freak 2,529]

44 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

How often do people catch lightning in a bottle?

[AcUmen 242]

45 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

You are correct! And Little Nicky didn’t, so there is that!
 

My point: why spend $30 million to get rid of a 8-4 Guy, to hire another 8-4 guy?

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

Because AU is the hardest football job in America, and it's not close.  Bama, LSU, UGA, aTm, Ole Miss, Arkansas EVERY single year. Not many coaches want that level of competition.  They would never admit it publicly, but it's a fact. Lincoln Riley, a very winning coach, just left OU to avoid the SEC.  Coaches are scared of it.

So, yeah, it's going to be very hard to get coaches to risk their careers at AU, especially younger coaches. I respect Harsin for taking the risk at only 44 years old.    

[nurbis 579]

5 minutes ago, AcUmen said:

 Lincoln Riley, a very winning coach, just left OU to avoid the SEC.

Maybe avoiding the SEC factored into his decision but probably what had more of an impact was the 110 million dollars, the 6 million dollar home they gave him, and the private jet he gets to use for whatever he wants. It wasn't like he took the USC job for less money just to escape the SEC. There isn't a person alive that would have turned down that deal. 

[Taco 617]

25 minutes ago, nurbis said:

But Bruce Pearl still needed a couple of years to get his system and players in place before he started winning. He didn't have a winning season until year 3 and he didn't have a winning season in conference until year 4. I pointed this out in another thread, but Pearl actually did worse in the SEC in his first year than Barbee did in his last.

The hill for Harsin to climb shouldn't be as steep as it was for Pearl in basketball but at some point we have to accept it will take some time to fix some of the major issues left by Malzahn. 

Barbee could have left him 5 chairs and Bruce probably would have been happier. 
 

I get what you’re saying. But the turnaround Bruce had to take on is much, much, MUCH bigger than what Harsin is. 

[Win4AU 4,055]

Harsin historically is a 10, 11, 12 win coach with 5 championships in 7 years at Boise.   It’s not like Auburn hired a guy with 1 year of head coaching at Arkansas State.  
 

As far as the Bruce comparisons, he had 2 losing seasons and a barely .500 season before Auburn had a team that could make the tourney.  How did that 1st Clemson game go?  How was last season?  Even the best coaches need a chance to build a team.  
 

 

[AU-24 3,121]

28 minutes ago, nurbis said:

But Bruce Pearl still needed a couple of years to get his system and players in place before he started winning. He didn't have a winning season until year 3 and he didn't have a winning season in conference until year 4. I pointed this out in another thread, but Pearl actually did worse in the SEC in his first year than Barbee did in his last.

The hill for Harsin to climb shouldn't be as steep as it was for Pearl in basketball but at some point we have to accept it will take some time to fix some of the major issues left by Malzahn. 

Several things to consider. Auburn basketball did not have the talent to play some of the best teams in conference and in the country. This last season Auburn Football had enough talent to beat top 10 Ole Miss, top 10 Alabama, top 25 Arkansas. With that kind of talent you should be doing better than 6-6 and we certainly should be doing better in recruiting. 

We could go on and on, but I think you have to admit there were some very questionable coaching calls/decisions this past season that are concerning.

Obviously no matter what happens next year, Harsin will get at least three years to see what he can do.

[e808 3,028]

21 hours ago, Win4AU said:

Harsin historically is a 10, 11, 12 win coach with 5 championships in 7 years at Boise.   It’s not like Auburn hired a guy with 1 year of head coaching at Arkansas State.  
 

As far as the Bruce comparisons, he had 2 losing seasons and a barely .500 season before Auburn had a team that could make the tourney.  How did that 1st Clemson game go?  How was last season?  Even the best coaches need a chance to build a team.  
 

 

U can’t compare the basketball team that’s apples to oranges. The basketball team was in way worse shape, u have less players and basically your entire team can leave after one year. Also in basketball one player can make or break your team. Not having Cooper for the entire season really hurt. There was no tournament one year and Auburn self imposed a ban the last year. It’s hard to gauge the last two seasons.

Edited December 7, 2021 by e808

[AU-24 3,121]

15 minutes ago, AcUmen said:

Because AU is the hardest football job in America, and it's not close.  Bama, LSU, UGA, aTm, Ole Miss, Arkansas EVERY single year. Not many coaches want that level of competition.  They would never admit it publicly, but it's a fact. Lincoln Riley, a very winning coach, just left OU to avoid the SEC.  Coaches are scared of it.

So, yeah, it's going to be very hard to get coaches to risk their careers at AU, especially younger coaches. I respect Harsin for taking the risk at only 44 years old.    

I appreciate the commentary but personally, I just don’t buy it. Several SEC, ACC or Big Ten for that matter, top coordinators would love to be at AU for $4 mil to $7 million per year. Several up-and-coming young coaches would love the same money to coach and raise their families in Auburn, Alabama. Not criticizing you, just saying I respectfully disagree.

We could say the same about the entire SEC West, realizing, Auburn does have to play Georgia every year as well. When Horns and Boomer join the SEC, some of that may change, and the schedules could be more difficult for everyone.

[Win4AU 4,055]

Just now, e808 said:

U can’t compare the basketball team that’s apples to oranges. The basketball team was in way worse shape, u have less players and basically your entire team can leave after one year. Also in basketball one player can make or break your team. Not having Cooper for the entire season really hurt. There was no tournament one year and Auburn self imposed a ban the band last year. It’s hard to gauge the last two seasons.

Just making the point that even the best coaches need time to bring in their players whether it’s bball or football.  Bruce got a lot more room to grow because most Auburn people didn’t really care that much about basketball before he got here.  Gotta give Harsin the same room to grow.  He has the track record that says he can do it.

[AU-24 3,121]

28 minutes ago, The Freak said:

How often do people catch lightning in a bottle?

When we name the legendary coaches in college football, Gus Malzone will not be on anyone’s list. He did manage to beat Saban with a junior college transfer, (Cam) with a Canadian football league defensive back (Nick) a NFL future fifth round draft pick (Jared) I think it was fifth round, and a teenage freshman. (Bo) I certainly think we could get someone even better than Gus that can average nine or 10 wins per season.

Obviously, I could be wrong. Maybe my thoughts towards Auburn are just better/greater than they should be.

[fredst 9,064]

7 hours ago, AU-24 said:

When we name the legendary coaches in college football, Gus Malzone will not be on anyone’s list. He did manage to beat Saban with a junior college transfer, (Cam) with a Canadian football league defensive back (Nick) a NFL future fifth round draft pick (Jared) I think it was fifth round, and a teenage freshman. (Bo) I certainly think we could get someone even better than Gus that can average nine or 10 wins per season.

Obviously, I could be wrong. Maybe my thoughts towards Auburn are just better/greater than they should be.

Who do you think that we should have hired to replace Gus? Or, in your opinion, should we have retained Gus? 

[Hank2020 3,228]

8 hours ago, nurbis said:

Maybe avoiding the SEC factored into his decision but probably what had more of an impact was the 110 million dollars, the 6 million dollar home they gave him, and the private jet he gets to use for whatever he wants. It wasn't like he took the USC job for less money just to escape the SEC. There isn't a person alive that would have turned down that deal. 

A better comparison is what LSU would have paid vs Oklahoma.

[woodford 3,682]

9 hours ago, AU-24 said:

You are correct! And Little Nicky didn’t, so there is that!
 

My point: why spend $30 million to get rid of a 8-4 Guy, to hire another 8-4 guy?

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

Auburn doesn't (or did not at the time) care about basketball. That was a total gamble. If it works then sweet! If not, meh who cares it's just basketball. It has worked.

They won't take gambles like that with football imo tbh

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

Comparing Harsin or Malzahn to Bruce Pearl is a terrible one. We didn't exactly go out and make a power move to steal Bruce from another top program. He was a proven coach who was only available thanks to ever inconsistent NCAA. Auburn was playing with house money effectively.

Name a head coach in FBS who is similarly available and equally as cheap...

 

[The Freak 2,529]

39 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Comparing Harsin or Malzahn to Bruce Pearl is a terrible one. We didn't exactly go out and make a power move to steal Bruce from another top program. He was a proven coach who was only available thanks to ever inconsistent NCAA. Auburn was playing with house money effectively.

Name a head coach in FBS who is similarly available and equally as cheap...

 

Hugh Freeze.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

2 minutes ago, The Freak said:

Hugh Freeze.

Considering he's black listed by the SEC, I would call his availability into question.

Edit: Also when you consider the well-documented methods by which he attained his top recruiting classes, I'm hesitant to really consider him an SEC caliber coach. He's done well at the G5 level.

Edited December 6, 2021 by JBiGGiE

[Hank2020 3,228]

20 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

Considering he's black listed by the SEC, I would call his availability into question.

Edit: Also when you consider the well-documented methods by which he attained his top recruiting classes, I'm hesitant to really consider him an SEC caliber coach. He's done well at the G5 level.

Freeze has a good niche at Liberty. Should stay there if he is allowed.

[Chaotic_zx 1,051]

11 hours ago, AU-24 said:

You are correct! And Little Nicky didn’t, so there is that!
 

My point: why spend $30 million to get rid of a 8-4 Guy, to hire another 8-4 guy?

When we hired Bruce Pearl we knew exactly what we were getting and he didn’t disappoint! Why can’t the football program do the same thing?

The reason is because you know what you are getting with the first 8-4 guy. A guy that rarely if ever beat UGA and LSU. A guy that owned Arkansas. A guy that went 2-5 in bowls and one of the wins was against a lower tiered program that had just lost it's coach to Virginia Tech. Malzahn had 7 years at Auburn and Auburn wasn't getting better. Support for the program was drying up. You want to make the AD, boosters, and the President move, let the money flow start to dry up. How many Auburn fans were wishing for basketball to start up? 

 

With Harsin, you really don't know what you're getting at this point. Ok so he may end the season at 6-7 or 7-6. I don't feel it is right to judge on 1 year. If in year 4 or 7 the recruiting or record isn't good, so be it. He wasn't up for the job. But we can hardly gauge that now. It has been too soon. The player's bad habits still manifest(fumbles, drops, whiff blocks,run right and throw it out of bounds). In the end he may arrive at being a 8-4 coach. He may end up losing consistently to UGA, LSU, and Bama. Ok, it is what it is. Get rid of him and start anew. The apathy from supporters of the program is palpable. 

 

I just don't see the commitment to building a consistent winner at Auburn. It is sad to me as I see the potential. If you have multiple 8-4 type coaches in a row, the problem may be outside of their control. I feel that you support the coaches as much as possible until they prove they can't do anything with it. At that point you make a move and fire them. So Auburn meanders through the years and has a good one once in 10-15 years. At what point do people stand back and question the people running the program? When do they tell people in power that you either can't pick good coaches or you're not supporting them enough? If you tell them this, you risk losing their money. That is the crux of the issue. There are no Pat Dye types walking through that door. The program needs an overhaul.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chaotic_zx

[Mikey 16,779]

5 minutes ago, Chaotic_zx said:

There are no Pat Dye types walking through that door. The program needs an overhaul.

The problem is, it's impossible to identify Pat Dye types ahead of time. Just ask Florida, Tennessee or the bammers, who went through five head coaches between Stallings and Saban. A&M is currently on their 5th since R.C. Slocumb and they aren't too happy with Jimbo.

Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot. We've been lucky in the past. Chizik, in spite of all, steered us to a national championship through some very rough waters. Terry Bowden's Auburn record was 47-17-1. Malzahn never had a losing season and took us to a national championship game.

Harsin could be the next Pat Dye but the odds don't favor that. He does need 3 to 4 years before anybody knows if his hiring was a mistake or not.

[Hank2020 3,228]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

The problem is, it's impossible to identify Pat Dye types ahead of time. Just ask Florida, Tennessee or the bammers, who went through five head coaches between Stallings and Saban. A&M is currently on their 5th since R.C. Slocumb and they aren't too happy with Jimbo.

Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot. We've been lucky in the past. Chizik, in spite of all, steered us to a national championship through some very rough waters. Terry Bowden's Auburn record was 47-17-1. Malzahn never had a losing season and took us to a national championship game.

Harsin could be the next Pat Dye but the odds don't favor that. He does need 3 to 4 years before anybody knows if his hiring was a mistake or not.

IMO he also needs support from fan base during that 3-4 years. We gave it to Malzahn until around 5-6 years.