Biden's Approval Ratings Are So Low In Part Because He's Been Too Centrist and Too Bi-Partisan.

[Grumps 3,704]

[cbo 7,917]

On 12/31/2021 at 9:25 AM, homersapien said:

It's hard for me to lay direct responsibility for things like the covid pandemic on any POTUS (including Trump).  I think Biden did over-promise in that regard and the country was not prepared for a relapse with omicron. 

Having said that, Trump made the (natural for him) mistake of seeing the pandemic primarily as a personal political threat and HE was largely responsible for politicizing it.

Biden doesn't have the instincts to get out front of such an issue for political gain, which is a positive compared to the last guy.

I don't know what to say about the border. I think the problems there are largely due to the problems in South and Central America and I don't think our country has the stomach for seriously addressing them at their source. 

In the absence of any sort of legislative proposals, any president is stuck with the dilemma of balancing the need to show compassion and common sense to immigrants who seek refuge (and the opportunity to work their butts off, which most of them do) and improve both their lives as well as benefiting the country.

(Again, Trump saw this as just another political opportunity to pander to and solidify his base -"build a wall" - without really addressing the root causes of the problem.)

One of the things that would help at the border is to re-direct our drug policies from the "war on drugs" to a medical/healthcare approach instead of criminal one.  This would go a long way toward separating the legitimate refugees from the criminal elements at the border.  We should provide drugs to addicts in controlled settings and address their addiction at the same time.

I don't fully understand the supply chain issues nor what the POTUS could do to directly address them. It seems to me this will naturally take some time to sort itself out.  Inflation is in the same category IMO. 

The Afghanistan withdrawal was going to be messy regardless, but the total chain of command really screwed it up and made it worse than it could have been.  Biden - as commander-in-chief - is responsible for that chain of command.  It was never going to be a positive but it didn't have to be the fiasco it appeared to be. That's on him.

As far as Biden's promises, I think getting at least the first half of his economic package - the infrastructure package - passed was a positive.  I think much of his BBB proposal would go a long way to benefit the country economically but we'll have to see what makes it through, if anything.

Longer term, for this country to prosper, we have to adapt a single payer healthcare system like the rest of the developed world has.  (For example, about 20% of our current healthcare expenditures are funneled into the pockets of rich healthcare companies, drug companies and insurance companies.)  It's totally inefficient.  We have armies of clerks and bureaucrats just to handle reimbursement billing and we have far fewer doctors and clinicians. 

Other countries spend far less on healthcare than we do because and have better outcomes.  (I am currently reading "The Hidden History of American Healthcare - Why sickness Bankrupts You and Makes Others Insanely Rich, by Thom Hartmann.  So more on this later.)

Obviously, I don't see Biden reforming our healthcare system.  The country is afflicted with "Stockholm Syndrome" - we just can't imagine anything different.

The other fundamental problem - perhaps the root problem - with our country is the influence of money in government.  (This affects both parties equally, it's just Republicans are more upfront and honest about it.) 

Here's an example of that taken from the above book. It's  talking about the creation of the 20 percent out-of-pocket responsibility in the 1965 Medicare Act: 

"For the Republicans and "conservative" (corporate-owned) Democrats,  that gap represented a multibillion-dollar profit opportunity for insurance companies to expand into; and expand they did, with Medigap policies no covering over 14 million Americans.  Tragically, that's only a bit more than a third of all Medicare beneficiaries; most elderly people can't afford the the additional $150-$500 a month for a Medigap policy and thus can end up on the hook for 20 percent of an unlimited expense if they get seriously ill."

So, bottom line - and to answer the question about Biden - meh. 

But then, I really didn't have any expectations that he would do anything meaningful given the context of our fundamental problems - our healthcare system and money influencing our political system.  

And now it appears we can add a possible third fundamental problem which is 3) the erosion of our democracy.

I voted for Biden because the alternative was voting for Trump (which perhaps illustrates another fundamental problem in our electoral system). Regardless, it's always a good move to stop the bleeding even if a cure is not in sight.

I think the country is in steady decline and it will probably take a crisis to reverse it.  This is why a part of me would welcome giving Trump another chance to create that crisis.  But it will be bloody.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! 

I just want to say you are way more knowledgeable and articulate than me when it comes to politics, and I truly appreciate and enjoy your contributions here. 

[AU9377 5,035]

On 12/31/2021 at 1:06 PM, aubiefifty said:

see i think this is sad. i think biden is easing up all the left stuff and trying to be more centrist because he wants to try and bring the country back together as much as he can. it does not seem to be working. but i applaud his efforts even tho i am somewhat disappointed but hey i like him better today than i did because i just found out my ccrs wage increase is right at a hundred and twenty bucks. fed employees too often get caught up in politics and normally do not get raises and it has been that way for years on both sides of the board. so i feel like i finally got a real cost of living increase. in fairness trump was better than some but i felt it was still lacking. but i lost on social security cus my medicare went up and i did not get that much to begin with. so that is something on my end even if it might appear selfish.

It will never have a chance to succeed as long as people continue to form their opinions from information they are fed by media sources that profit from division.  Biden could mirror every Trump policy and they would still label him as an anti-American senile socialist.  If all they hear are jokes & baseless statements that claim Biden can't write his name due to his mental state, that becomes a fact that they accept as truth based solely on it being repeated 1,000 times.  That sort of manipulation gets repeated over and over and as long as it keeps working, they will keep doing it.

[DKW 86 7,440]

12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

It will never have a chance to succeed as long as people continue to form their opinions from information they are fed by media sources that profit from division.  Biden could mirror every Trump policy and they would still label him as an anti-American senile socialist.  If all they hear are jokes & baseless statements that claim Biden can't write his name due to his mental state, that becomes a fact that they accept as truth based solely on it being repeated 1,000 times.  That sort of manipulation gets repeated over and over and as long as it keeps working, they will keep doing it.

And Russians!!! was what exactly? Four years of BS that at the end amounted to just this side of nothing. Face it, both of these parties are too far down the rabbit hole now. Both sides are skilled at the art of dismissing the other for nothing, most days. No adults in DC.  

[AU9377 5,035]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And Russians!!! was what exactly? Four years of BS that at the end amounted to just this side of nothing. Face it, both of these parties are too far down the rabbit hole now. Both sides are skilled at the art of dismissing the other for nothing, most days. No adults in DC.  

Yes, but we have to work to change that.  Abandoning effort altogether will not get anything accomplished either.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And Russians!!! was what exactly? Four years of BS that at the end amounted to just this side of nothing. Face it, both of these parties are too far down the rabbit hole now. Both sides are skilled at the art of dismissing the other for nothing, most days. No adults in DC.  

Keep telling yourself that, but at the end of the day if independent progressives like yourself ever want to have a chance in hell of seeing any of the policies or social changes you support or advocate for it will be because Democrats finally got the supermajority in our government and is able to pass it even with universal Republican opposition. 

 

Democrats aren't perfect and they may not even be "good", but they're the damn best shot that the United States has at progress and sustainability going forward for the near future. 

[AUFAN78 3,926]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:19 PM, AU9377 said:

It will never have a chance to succeed as long as people continue to form their opinions from information they are fed by media sources that profit from division.  Biden could mirror every Trump policy and they would still label him as an anti-American senile socialist.  If all they hear are jokes & baseless statements that claim Biden can't write his name due to his mental state, that becomes a fact that they accept as truth based solely on it being repeated 1,000 times.  That sort of manipulation gets repeated over and over and as long as it keeps working, they will keep doing it.

Nothing could be further from the truth. People are feeling inflation it in their pocketbooks, people see the border is in chaos, the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle was preventable, crime is out of control, the idiocy of CRT, and need I mention Covid? I could go on, but it is hardly necessary. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

8 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Keep telling yourself that, but at the end of the day if independent progressives like yourself ever want to have a chance in hell of seeing any of the policies or social changes you support or advocate for it will be because Democrats finally got the supermajority in our government and is able to pass it even with universal Republican opposition. 

 

Democrats aren't perfect and they may not even be "good", but they're the damn best shot that the United States has at progress and sustainability going forward for the near future. 

so much wrong there. You dont need a supermajority that may never come again. BTW, Obama had all that and all he did was drone half the middle east and give us a crappy version the healthcare reform we really needed. I admit i came to late to that party. But now… what do we get? Seriously? More empty promises and more BS. We dont even get promises for votes. We dont get s***. Get a little now, push the subject. We didnt get single payer with ACA, but we can and should tweek it. 

[AU9377 5,035]

5 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Nothing could be further from the truth. People are feeling inflation it in their pocketbooks, people see the border is in chaos, the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle was preventable, crime is out of control, the idiocy of CRT, and need I mention Covid? I could go on, but it is hardly necessary. 

You think the Federal govt has something to do with CRT?  Those talking points get driven home every day. You have listened well.  Yes, inflation is a problem.  What would Trumpy do? Give more tax breaks to corporate America?  Most Americans are just glad that a President had the balls to get us out of that pit of hell called Afghanistan.  What is the Federal solution to Crime again?  Trump inherited a good economy and then pumped it with steroids and debt spending to fuel it more.  I am not in favor of spending trillions like some on the far left want now, but neither side has any place to accuse the other of overspending, given their history.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

so much wrong there. You dont need a supermajority that may never come again. BTW, Obama had all that and all he did was drone half the middle east and give us a crappy version the healthcare reform we really needed. I admit i came to late to that party. But now… what do we get? Seriously? More empty promises and more BS. We dont even get promises for votes. We dont get s***. Get a little now, push the subject. We didnt get single payer with ACA, but we can and should tweek it. 

Obama DID gave us something with healthcare though, and at a time when progressive's weren't as prevalent in government as they are now, and the ACA we did get was already vehemently opposed by Republicans. They tried like hell for the next decade to get it repealed and scared their base to death with lies about 'death squads' and 'socialism'. A true single payer system is likely to have been completely repealed by Republicans later on and then we'd be back where we started. 

You're making perfection the enemy of good. 

One side will bring you alittle closer to your goals slowly over time with a lot of frustration

The other side will never get you to your goals ever because they are opposed 100% to every one of them. 

 

You're looking at these two sides and saying "i just wont support either" 

that's your prerogative, but it's not what will lead to progress on what you say you want accomplished. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[DKW 86 7,440]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:49 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Obama DID gave us something with healthcare though, and at a time when progressive's weren't as prevalent in government as they are now, and the ACA we did get was already vehemently opposed by Republicans. They tried like hell for the next decade to get it repealed and scared their base to death with lies about 'death squads' and 'socialism'. A true single payer system is likely to have been completely repealed by Republicans later on and then we'd be back where we started. 

You're making perfection the enemy of good. 

One side will bring you alittle closer to your goals slowly over time with a lot of frustration

The other side will never get you to your goals ever because they are opposed 100% to every one of them. 

 

You're looking at these two sides and saying "i just wont support either" 

that's your prerogative, but it's not what will lead to progress on what you say you want accomplished. 

We are arguing nuance here, I agree.  But my nuance is "Speed of the Progress"  I am for M4A, etc. I have no delusion that anyone on the Right is going to do anything but kiss Wall Street Ass. The Republicans are so far gone now. But the Progs in America during the 2020 Election were promised several things. Support for Minimum Wage Hike and M4A thru...Called Votes. Thats all we were promised and we accepted that. We wanted to move closer to the goal post still knowing that we were not there yet. 

What we got...NOTHING. No votes, not even promises of votes.  I see exactly what you are saying. But I also want you to see what we are saying. We once again did the dutiful thing, we supported Bernie, got ran over by the DNC Machine, turned around like good lil children and supported Biden, and in the end, didnt even get a KMA for the support.

THATS where we are now. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by DKW 86

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

51 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

We are arguing nuance here, I agree.  But my nuance is "Speed of the Progress"  I am for M4A, etc. I have no delusion that anyone on the Right is going to do anything but kiss Wall Street Ass. The Republicans are so far gone now. But the Progs in America during the 2020 Election were promised several things. Support for Minimum Wage Hike and M4A thru...Called Votes. Thats all we were promised and we accepted that. We wanted to move closer to the goal post still knowing that we were not there yet. 

What we got...NOTHING. No votes, not even promises of votes.  I see exactly what you are saying. But I also want you to see what we are saying. We once again did the dutiful thing, we supported Bernie, got ran over by the DNC Machine, turned around like good lil children and supported Biden, and in the end, didnt even get a KMA for the support.

THATS where we are not now. 

We got nothing because the Democrats don't have a real majority in government and 99.9% of Republicans will oppose all of those things no matter what, and the Democrats have people like Sinema and Manchin who are elected by mostly conservative voters and wont support any of those proposals unless Republicans get on board too (which will never happen), so thus...nothing can be done. 

 

I do agree that Democratic leadership like Pelosi, McCarthy, and Biden are playing too nice and have their own agendas which don't always align with progress, but we'd be seeing more progress if Democrats had a true majority. 

Progressives like you, Greenwald, and Jimmy Dore who have your own little Crusade going on against the Democratic establishment at the expense of empowering the Republicans aren't going to help America get where we need to go any faster. Independent progressives who abandon the Democrats are more likely to make the Democrats go more rightward to the center to try and attract more conservative independents to win elections more then you are to make them want to go further left. 

Progressives have growing power in America, but you aren't powerful enough to fuel a presidential election win on your own and you don't have the power to establish and push a 3rd party, so you have 2 choices. Make the best of the situation that you can with Democrats or stay on the sidelines and help Republicans reclaim power.

Edited January 4, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[DKW 86 7,440]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

We got nothing because the Democrats don't have a real majority in government and 99.9% of Republicans will oppose all of those things no matter what, and the Democrats have people like Sinema and Manchin who are elected by mostly conservative voters and wont support any of those proposals unless Republicans get on board too (which will never happen), so thus...nothing can be done. 

 

I do agree that Democratic leadership like Pelosi, McCarthy, and Biden are playing too nice and have their own agendas which don't always align with progress, but we'd be seeing more progress if Democrats had a true majority. 

Progressives like you, Greenwald, and Jimmy Dore who have your own little Crusade going on against the Democratic establishment at the expense of empowering the Republicans aren't going to help America get where we need to go any faster. Independent progressives who abandon the Democrats are more likely to make the Democrats go more rightward to the center to try and attract more conservative independents to win elections more then you are to make them want to go further left. 

Progressives have growing power in America, but you aren't powerful enough to fuel a presidential election win on your own and you don't have the power to establish and push a 3rd party, so you have 2 choices. Make the best of the situation that you can with Democrats or stay on the sidelines and help Republicans reclaim power.

So, your recommendation is just keep kissing DNC ass, Get Nothing, And be thankful we get nothing. 

That's an odd perspective in politics. You assume we asked for something that is going to damage the cause. What cause tho?

All the Progs asked for was: WHAT WE WERE PROMISED. Nothing more. A simple up-down vote to raise public awareness. That doesnt damage the DNC in any way. 

What we got was NOTHING. We stood our ground and tried to #Forcethevote and were attacked by everyone for trying to simply stand our ground. THe DNC says "STFU, you get nothing, now vote for us all the time and get absolutely nothing going forward, and oh yea, we are going to continue to lie to you in everyway." Is that it? All the Progs are doing right now is standing our ground. The Dems have shown us that they care nothing about keeping us happy. They wont even allow a frickin vote, or to try and force a vote. 

So wow, we get nothing, ever. We saw how it went with Obama.

The DNC is now too busy shooting itself in the ass with DTP, Border Mess, Inflation, SCM Crisis, the Great Resignation, COVID Mandates for as far as the eye can see.  Biden poll numbers are crashing, Harris' numbers could not be worse. And we are supposed to sit back, give 100% Support and Get Nothing. What if the Dem Leadership crashes and burns in 2022? What if we are even farther away from that Dem Supermajority Fantasy. The last time the Dems had a SM, they lost 1000 seats across the nation and realigned some state legislatures for several decades.

Edited January 4, 2022 by DKW 86

[AUFAN78 3,926]

13 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You think the Federal govt has something to do with CRT? 

Ask the DOJ.

Those talking points get driven home every day. You have listened well. 

I can argue the same for you, but let's stick to reality.

Yes, inflation is a problem.  What would Trumpy do? Give more tax breaks to corporate America? 

Trump isn't the president. No amount of deflection on your part is helping those suffering.

Most Americans are just glad that a President had the balls to get us out of that pit of hell called Afghanistan. 

The problem was the methodology. Of course you knew this already, but choose once again to deflect. A pattern.

What is the Federal solution to Crime again? 

Oh I don't know? Prosecution maybe?

Trump inherited a good economy and then pumped it with steroids and debt spending to fuel it more.  I am not in favor of spending trillions like some on the far left want now, but neither side has any place to accuse the other of overspending, given their history.

Quite sure I did not address the overall economy. Stick with inflation please the current crippler.

Got anything of substance?

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by AUFAN78

[autigeremt 6,684]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:49 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

Obama DID gave us something with healthcare though, and at a time when progressive's weren't as prevalent in government as they are now, and the ACA we did get was already vehemently opposed by Republicans. They tried like hell for the next decade to get it repealed and scared their base to death with lies about 'death squads' and 'socialism'. A true single payer system is likely to have been completely repealed by Republicans later on and then we'd be back where we started. 

You're making perfection the enemy of good. 

One side will bring you alittle closer to your goals slowly over time with a lot of frustration

The other side will never get you to your goals ever because they are opposed 100% to every one of them. 

 

You're looking at these two sides and saying "i just wont support either" 

that's your prerogative, but it's not what will lead to progress on what you say you want accomplished. 

The ACA wasn’t about healthcare as much as it was about currying favor with select insurance companies, taking over student loans and forcing a future single payer onto the country when the ACA fails. Ticking financial time bomb. 

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, autigeremt said:

The ACA wasn’t about healthcare as much as it was about currying favor with select insurance companies, taking over student loans and forcing a future single payer onto the country when the ACA fails. Ticking financial time bomb. 

If it does that, then ACA will have been a resounding success.

But it will never happen as long as the insurance companies and hospitals can control our political system with huge amounts of money.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

15 hours ago, autigeremt said:

The ACA wasn’t about healthcare as much as it was about currying favor with select insurance companies, taking over student loans and forcing a future single payer onto the country when the ACA fails. Ticking financial time bomb. 

 

Our healthcare industry as it stands right now is a ticking financial timebomb, except it's mostly regular American citizens who have to pay the penalty for it. 

Tens of millions of Americans are 1 healthcare emergency, 1 ambulance ride, one job loss, one hospital stay away from lifechanging financial ruin because American healthcare is operated by private companies who care about profit and being paid above all else. 

 

Every medial appointment and medical emergency involves a web of insurance companies, co-pays, deductibles, premiums, in network,  out of network, dealing with the hospital, doctor, anesthesiologist, the ambulance, all different companies, and all can be in or out of network for different plans. 

If you can't afford or otherwise don't have health insurance then you have to be nearly on the verge of death to receive free treatment  or surgeries. US ER rooms fill up with the uninsured who wont be accepted at regular doctors offices or in general admission because they can't pay; this leaves people with REAL emergencies waiting for hours in our busy understaffed ERs. 

 

I have what most people would consider a good quality healthcare plan through my employer and it only covers 80% of an ambulance or mediflight. 

Medflights can cost up to $40,000 a ride because they are almost all operated by private companies who typically do not agree to insurance network plans because they want to be able to bill the patient the full amount over accepting less funds through an insurance agreement. 

 

Even with good insurance I would be expected to pau hundreds to thousands of dollars out of pocket just for TRANSPORT to a hospital if I needed it. America is the only modern nation that has such as archaic and capitalistic form of healthcare and statistically we don't receive much benefit as American healthcare outcomes are typically on par with other nation's one payer systems, except the care you'll get in America will costs many times more than anywhere else.  

[BizTiger 242]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:28 AM, TexasTiger said:

Fake progressive. ^^^

And there are SCORES of them. 

[TexasTiger 13,006]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:14 PM, autigeremt said:

The ACA wasn’t about healthcare as much as it was about currying favor with select insurance companies, taking over student loans and forcing a future single payer onto the country when the ACA fails. Ticking financial time bomb. 

Came from a conservative think tank:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/?sh=54e845db6187

[autigeremt 6,684]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:06 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Our healthcare industry as it stands right now is a ticking financial timebomb, except it's mostly regular American citizens who have to pay the penalty for it. 

Tens of millions of Americans are 1 healthcare emergency, 1 ambulance ride, one job loss, one hospital stay away from lifechanging financial ruin because American healthcare is operated by private companies who care about profit and being paid above all else. 

 

Every medial appointment and medical emergency involves a web of insurance companies, co-pays, deductibles, premiums, in network,  out of network, dealing with the hospital, doctor, anesthesiologist, the ambulance, all different companies, and all can be in or out of network for different plans. 

If you can't afford or otherwise don't have health insurance then you have to be nearly on the verge of death to receive free treatment  or surgeries. US ER rooms fill up with the uninsured who wont be accepted at regular doctors offices or in general admission because they can't pay; this leaves people with REAL emergencies waiting for hours in our busy understaffed ERs. 

 

I have what most people would consider a good quality healthcare plan through my employer and it only covers 80% of an ambulance or mediflight. 

Medflights can cost up to $40,000 a ride because they are almost all operated by private companies who typically do not agree to insurance network plans because they want to be able to bill the patient the full amount over accepting less funds through an insurance agreement. 

 

Even with good insurance I would be expected to pau hundreds to thousands of dollars out of pocket just for TRANSPORT to a hospital if I needed it. America is the only modern nation that has such as archaic and capitalistic form of healthcare and statistically we don't receive much benefit as American healthcare outcomes are typically on par with other nation's one payer systems, except the care you'll get in America will costs many times more than anywhere else.  

I spent 10 years in the American Healthcare System working the frontlines and in the office. Auburn educated me well in the arena of healthcare administration and how to manage and administer Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance. The issues with our system began when government began to use healthcare as a political wedge to win voters and from there the costs have done noting but skyrocket. Single payer, government managed systems look great in countries where individual freedoms are “managed” more closely but I don’t think it will work out as well here in the US. I prefer a combination system but we need smarter, less ideological “leadership” in DC to approach it the right way. 

[AU9377 5,035]

On 1/5/2022 at 10:14 PM, autigeremt said:

The ACA wasn’t about healthcare as much as it was about currying favor with select insurance companies, taking over student loans and forcing a future single payer onto the country when the ACA fails. Ticking financial time bomb. 

Healthcare will be a ticking time bomb until we reign in costs.  Look around the world.  People don't seem to understand that health care is every bit as available, yet not near the burden in countries like the U.K.  It is past time that we stop forcing Americans to spend enormous amounts of money to simply insure their families.

[autigeremt 6,684]

14 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Healthcare will be a ticking time bomb until we reign in costs.  Look around the world.  People don't seem to understand that health care is every bit as available, yet not near the burden in countries like the U.K.  It is past time that we stop forcing Americans to spend enormous amounts of money to simply insure their families.

What happens when there’s a massive cut in pay to nurses, doctors, technicians, specialists and staff? Unions will flip out. It has to be approached in concert between gvt and the private sector through collaboration in my opinion. I don’t disagree but brevity is needed. 

[AU9377 5,035]

2 hours ago, autigeremt said:

What happens when there’s a massive cut in pay to nurses, doctors, technicians, specialists and staff? Unions will flip out. It has to be approached in concert between gvt and the private sector through collaboration in my opinion. I don’t disagree but brevity is needed. 

I honestly don't believe that salaries are feeding the cost problem.  Doctors, from what I have seen, are also not driving costs.  The biggest driver of costs are pharmaceutical and medical device/equipment providers.  Corporate hospitals are also feeding at the trough of taxpayer money.  The U.S. spends an amount equal to $12,530 per person annually on health care expenditures.  We spend an amount equal to over 17% of our GDP.  That is twice as much as countries like us around the world.

There is so much fleecing happening. A good portion of it is written into laws and regulations that were passed after lobbying on the part of the companies making simple, but highly beneficial medical devices.  I have seen that first hand with my father.  He has COPD.  He quit smoking in the mid 1980s.  However damage that was done to his lungs from the 60's until he quit reared it's head in 2010.  He sleeps with an at home ventilator device.  It is the size of a small igloo cooler and it functions by pushing air and supplemental oxygen while he sleeps.  There is nothing special about that compressor ability, but Phillips was able to get rules established that actually prevent individuals from buying the devices.  Instead, they must be rented.  The rent per month is over $1,000.  Insurance pays around $875 of that cost per month.  The devices are owned by home health care companies and cost them approx $11,000 per machine.  That is one hell of a return on an investment, especially when the investment is in something that the government requires someone to rent and prohibits them from buying.  He has been using this machine for around 8 years now.  The health care company has been making approx $12,000  a year on this device for over a decade.  Must be nice.

[jj3jordan 2,060]

11 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I honestly don't believe that salaries are feeding the cost problem.  Doctors, from what I have seen, are also not driving costs.  The biggest driver of costs are pharmaceutical and medical device/equipment providers.  Corporate hospitals are also feeding at the trough of taxpayer money.  The U.S. spends an amount equal to $12,530 per person annually on health care expenditures.  We spend an amount equal to over 17% of our GDP.  That is twice as much as countries like us around the world.

There is so much fleecing happening. A good portion of it is written into laws and regulations that were passed after lobbying on the part of the companies making simple, but highly beneficial medical devices.  I have seen that first hand with my father.  He has COPD.  He quit smoking in the mid 1980s.  However damage that was done to his lungs from the 60's until he quit reared it's head in 2010.  He sleeps with an at home ventilator device.  It is the size of a small igloo cooler and it functions by pushing air and supplemental oxygen while he sleeps.  There is nothing special about that compressor ability, but Phillips was able to get rules established that actually prevent individuals from buying the devices.  Instead, they must be rented.  The rent per month is over $1,000.  Insurance pays around $875 of that cost per month.  The devices are owned by home health care companies and cost them approx $11,000 per machine.  That is one hell of a return on an investment, especially when the investment is in something that the government requires someone to rent and prohibits them from buying.  He has been using this machine for around 8 years now.  The health care company has been making approx $12,000  a year on this device for over a decade.  Must be nice.

That is atrocious. How do we correct this type of wrong? There have to be more of them. This is where anti government sentiment can fester. 

[autigeremt 6,684]

17 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I honestly don't believe that salaries are feeding the cost problem.  Doctors, from what I have seen, are also not driving costs.  The biggest driver of costs are pharmaceutical and medical device/equipment providers.  Corporate hospitals are also feeding at the trough of taxpayer money.  The U.S. spends an amount equal to $12,530 per person annually on health care expenditures.  We spend an amount equal to over 17% of our GDP.  That is twice as much as countries like us around the world.

There is so much fleecing happening. A good portion of it is written into laws and regulations that were passed after lobbying on the part of the companies making simple, but highly beneficial medical devices.  I have seen that first hand with my father.  He has COPD.  He quit smoking in the mid 1980s.  However damage that was done to his lungs from the 60's until he quit reared it's head in 2010.  He sleeps with an at home ventilator device.  It is the size of a small igloo cooler and it functions by pushing air and supplemental oxygen while he sleeps.  There is nothing special about that compressor ability, but Phillips was able to get rules established that actually prevent individuals from buying the devices.  Instead, they must be rented.  The rent per month is over $1,000.  Insurance pays around $875 of that cost per month.  The devices are owned by home health care companies and cost them approx $11,000 per machine.  That is one hell of a return on an investment, especially when the investment is in something that the government requires someone to rent and prohibits them from buying.  He has been using this machine for around 8 years now.  The health care company has been making approx $12,000  a year on this device for over a decade.  Must be nice.

I disagree. Companies trying to make profits will dip into salaries when hit with big losses. Boards will make moves to insure hospitals keep their footing. The system is very, very dynamic and every state is so different a one size fits all won't work. That's why it needs to be a combination of increased access for those on the bottom via healthcare clinics and preventative medicine along with insurance for those who can afford it. The top earners should only need catastrophic plans.