For those of you who think firing Malzahn for Harsin was a mistake

[Mikey 16,779]

I think it was time for a change. The AU and Coach Malzahn relationship had played out. About hiring Harsin as the replacement, he was as good as any. Hiring a new head football coach is a crap shoot. Many SEC schools have to go through multiple coaches before they settle on one. Even "mighty" bammer went through five between Stallings and Saban. If Harsin turns out to be a keeper we will have beaten the odds. Barring the unforeseen, Harsin deserves three or four years to put his plan in place. We all better hope we got lucky and beat the odds. If we haven't been lucky we'll be in for another three to four year trial period after Harsin is fired.. So, here's to Coach Harsin's success!

That having been said, his first year was underwhelming. He's not off to a good start here.

[Rednilla 5,401]

49 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I think it was time for a change. The AU and Coach Malzahn relationship had played out. About hiring Harsin as the replacement, he was as good as any. Hiring a new head football coach is a crap shoot. Many SEC schools have to go through multiple coaches before they settle on one. Even "mighty" bammer went through five between Stallings and Saban. If Harsin turns out to be a keeper we will have beaten the odds. Barring the unforeseen, Harsin deserves three or four years to put his plan in place. We all better hope we got lucky and beat the odds. If we haven't been lucky we'll be in for another three to four year trial period after Harsin is fired.. So, here's to Coach Harsin's success!

That having been said, his first year was underwhelming. He's not off to a good start here.

Then why are you always talking like he's not good enough? If he deserves our support for three or four years, when does yours start? Or do you only offer support after, what was it? Being part of an NC run, taking us to another NC game, and beating the #1 team in the country twice in three weeks? I mean, that's what you said, isn't it?

[Mikey 16,779]

2 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Then why are you always talking like he's not good enough?

Because to date he hasn't been good enough. It's not complicated.

Accomplishing those things bought some credit and continued support for Malzahn, who had been here a long time. Harsin has yet to do anything to earn support. He deserves three or four years to put his plan in place is what I wrote, not three or four years of worship. I hope he turns this around because he's AU's coach. Beyond that, I'm not jumping on some happy camper bandwagon when he's done nothing to earn a bandwagon.

 

 

[slyinsocal 831]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Because to date he hasn't been good enough. It's not complicated.

Accomplishing those things bought some credit and continued support for Malzahn, who had been here a long time. Harsin has yet to do anything to earn support. He deserves three or four years to put his plan in place is what I wrote, not three or four years of worship. I hope he turns this around because he's AU's coach. Beyond that, I'm not jumping on some happy camper bandwagon when he's done nothing to earn a bandwagon.

 

 

It's good that one coach slipped up and made you proud. It's also a shame that Shug, Dye, Tuberville, and Chizik couldn't measure up to the great Gus.

[AUwent 3,778]

10 minutes ago, slyinsocal said:

It's good that one coach slipped up and made you proud. It's also a shame that Shug, Dye, Tuberville, and Chizik couldn't measure up to the great Gus.

You're correct that Harsin had the equivalent of Dye and Tuberville's first seasons. If our offensive recruiting were even close to being as good as our defensive recruiting currently is, it would be very easy to see we're building something great.

At this point I couldn't care less about Gus. So could we please stop talking about him?

Edited December 31, 2021 by AUwent

[slyinsocal 831]

31 minutes ago, AUwent said:

You're correct that Harsin had the equivalent of Dye and Tuberville's first seasons. If our offensive recruiting were even close to being as good as our defensive recruiting currently is, it would be very easy to see we're building something great.

At this point I couldn't care less about Gus. So could we please stop talking about him?

1st point, agree. 2nd point? Like it or not, this debate will continue to get triggered from time to time. Eventually it will fade over time. You won't see me starting a thread. Don't need to with gems like these....."For those of you who think firing Malzahn for Harsin was a mistake"....and....."With Gus, Did we Ever Lose 5 in a Row?"

[AUwent 3,778]

4 minutes ago, slyinsocal said:

1st point, agree. 2nd point? Like it or not, this debate will continue to get triggered from time to time. Eventually it will fade over time. You won't see me starting a thread. Don't need to with gems like these....."For those of you who think firing Malzahn for Harsin was a mistake"....and....."With Gus, Did we Ever Lose 5 in a Row?"

I agree. I'm just sick of hearing about him, from both sides.

Edited December 31, 2021 by AUwent

[sevenlee36 1,654]

I’d rather have a guy who has coached in three SEC Championship games, 2 National Title games and has beaten Saban numerous times (assuming Saban can’t be my coach). I probably hate losing worse than BH, that doesn’t necessarily mean I should be head coach but if the money is right ya never know.

[jluvah 674]

Gus was absolutely satisfied with 8-4. History shows it.

[AuCivilEng1 11,049]

I still don’t understand the backlash on the 6-4 comment. Yes, no coach should be happy with a 8-4/9-3 season. Completely agree that Malzahn slipped up. But people act like if our coach goes 8-4 they’re underperforming. Auburn’s all time winning percentage is .629. In a 12 game season that’s between 7 and 8 wins. Like it or not. That’s what we are. A middle of the pack football program with the ability to have great years. I’d like to get a coach that envisions us as a 10+ win program. But the odds of it happening after 129 years is low. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

5 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I still don’t understand the backlash on the 6-4 comment. Yes, no coach should be happy with a 8-4/9-3 season. Completely agree that Malzahn slipped up. But people act like if our coach goes 8-4 they’re underperforming. Auburn’s all time winning percentage is .629. In a 12 game season that’s between 7 and 8 wins. Like it or not. That’s what we are. A middle of the pack football program with the ability to have great years. I’d like to get a coach that envisions us as a 10+ win program. But the odds of it happening after 129 years is low. 

I can help you understand it:

A bunch of us think we can be better than an 8-4 program and don't want someone who thinks its a pretty good year.  We've seen what success at the highest level looks like and want it more often.

Past medicrioty does not neccessitate future mediocrity. 

I always ask folks who point to our past to answer these questions: 

What was Clemson as a program before Dabo got that going?  How about Oregon prior to Belotti?  Should Nebraska still be a power now just because they've won historically?

Times have changed.  There's a lot more money and resources involved and we're one of the few schools with a legit shot win it all every year if we get the right folks in place.  Time to stop settling for 8-4.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

7 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Then why are you always talking like he's not good enough? If he deserves our support for three or four years, when does yours start? Or do you only offer support after, what was it? Being part of an NC run, taking us to another NC game, and beating the #1 team in the country twice in three weeks? I mean, that's what you said, isn't it?

Harsin has done nothing to prove himself yet. He doesn't have a warm and dynamic personality, so that hasn't won people over either. I'm kind of tired of the expectation that Auburn fans should just fall in line and think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread before he even accomplishes anything. Everyone wants him to be great but so far he hasn't even been good, so the wait and see mindset is actually very fair and probably the smartest way to keep expectations in check. That doesn't mean people wanted to keep Gus around, and it doesn't mean anybody hates Harsin. It means that Harsin is unimpressive, and it's his job to change that. Everyone wants that to happen. But he has to earn it. 

When Gus took over he already had a good history with Auburn. He brought in Cam Newton and was a vital part of 2010. There was a different feel to it. Gus also walked into a team in disarray, and he gave us Nick Marshall and 2013. So the excuses about Gus leaving the program in bad shape are just not enough. Most of the time when a new coach takes over...it's because the previous coach wasn't effective and there are always bare spots in the roster. Harsin is in no worse a position than anyone else, and is definitely in a better position than some other first year coaches. 

Nobody should get outraged because people are somewhat skeptical at this point. Harsin has done nothing in the SEC yet. He will be wholly accepted when he proves he can actually do the job. He will have to improve vastly in 2022....way beyond the lukewarm efforts we saw this season. 

[Hank2020 3,228]

5 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Harsin has done nothing to prove himself yet. He doesn't have a warm and dynamic personality, so that hasn't won people over either. I'm kind of tired of the expectation that Auburn fans should just fall in line and think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread before he even accomplishes anything. Everyone wants him to be great but so far he hasn't even been good, so the wait and see mindset is actually very fair and probably the smartest way to keep expectations in check. That doesn't mean people wanted to keep Gus around, and it doesn't mean anybody hates Harsin. It means that Harsin is unimpressive, and it's his job to change that. Everyone wants that to happen. But he has to earn it. 

When Gus took over he already had a good history with Auburn. He brought in Cam Newton and was a vital part of 2010. There was a different feel to it. Gus also walked into a team in disarray, and he gave us Nick Marshall and 2013. So the excuses about Gus leaving the program in bad shape are just not enough. Most of the time when a new coach takes over...it's because the previous coach wasn't effective and there are always bare spots in the roster. Harsin is in no worse a position than anyone else, and is definitely in a better position than some other first year coaches. 

Nobody should get outraged because people are somewhat skeptical at this point. Harsin has done nothing in the SEC yet. He will be wholly accepted when he proves he can actually do the job. He will have to improve vastly in 2022....way beyond the lukewarm efforts we saw this season. 

What successfully HC of the 4 in the playoffs have a “warm and dynamic” personality? Maybe Finkell? Don’t see this adding anything to successfully HC conversation.

[Rednilla 5,401]

2 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Harsin has done nothing to prove himself yet. He doesn't have a warm and dynamic personality, so that hasn't won people over either. I'm kind of tired of the expectation that Auburn fans should just fall in line and think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread before he even accomplishes anything. Everyone wants him to be great but so far he hasn't even been good, so the wait and see mindset is actually very fair and probably the smartest way to keep expectations in check. That doesn't mean people wanted to keep Gus around, and it doesn't mean anybody hates Harsin. It means that Harsin is unimpressive, and it's his job to change that. Everyone wants that to happen. But he has to earn it. 

When Gus took over he already had a good history with Auburn. He brought in Cam Newton and was a vital part of 2010. There was a different feel to it. Gus also walked into a team in disarray, and he gave us Nick Marshall and 2013. So the excuses about Gus leaving the program in bad shape are just not enough. Most of the time when a new coach takes over...it's because the previous coach wasn't effective and there are always bare spots in the roster. Harsin is in no worse a position than anyone else, and is definitely in a better position than some other first year coaches. 

Nobody should get outraged because people are somewhat skeptical at this point. Harsin has done nothing in the SEC yet. He will be wholly accepted when he proves he can actually do the job. He will have to improve vastly in 2022....way beyond the lukewarm efforts we saw this season. 

Harsin hasn't done much AT AUBURN to prove himself yet, no. But it gets just a little bit tiring hearing a Gus fanboy constantly talking about how much better Malzahn would have been doing, how much of a mistake Harsin was, etc, ESPECIALLY when he, himself, noted that Harsin needs to be given at least 3 to 4 years to establish his direction for the program.

If you don't want to support the coaching staff, fine, but don't be so belligerent about noting every single potential misstep along the way while ignoring any potential good if you want to call yourself a fan.

[keesler 5,934]

40 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I still don’t understand the backlash on the 6-4 comment. Yes, no coach should be happy with a 8-4/9-3 season. Completely agree that Malzahn slipped up. But people act like if our coach goes 8-4 they’re underperforming. Auburn’s all time winning percentage is .629. In a 12 game season that’s between 7 and 8 wins. Like it or not. That’s what we are. A middle of the pack football program with the ability to have great years. I’d like to get a coach that envisions us as a 10+ win program. But the odds of it happening after 129 years is low. 

With the multi-millions coaches are paid now and the multi-millions that are now allowed through NIL, there are no excuses for mediocrity.  Auburn has historically been an 8 win team, but the stakes have ampted up tremendously with the money Auburn is willing to spend.  Money like today demands better than 8 win seasons and losing seasons are totally unacceptable.

[AUwent 3,778]

@Brad_ATX and @Rednilla:

Ok, and how many years into Harsin's tenure should we demand that we surpass that? Because I think most of us would be ecstatic at 8-4 next year.

Oh and dear sweet baby Jesus please let us stop playing Georgia every year when the SEC expands. I *really* wish we could move to the Big 12 or ACC, but that'll do for now.

Edited January 1, 2022 by AUwent

[Rednilla 5,401]

46 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I still don’t understand the backlash on the 6-4 comment. Yes, no coach should be happy with a 8-4/9-3 season. Completely agree that Malzahn slipped up. But people act like if our coach goes 8-4 they’re underperforming. Auburn’s all time winning percentage is .629. In a 12 game season that’s between 7 and 8 wins. Like it or not. That’s what we are. A middle of the pack football program with the ability to have great years. I’d like to get a coach that envisions us as a 10+ win program. But the odds of it happening after 129 years is low. 

Middle of the pack? We've won the 13th most games of any school in NCAA history.

But no, it's not about the belief that we are underperforming at 8-4. It's about the complacency with 8-4, the trying to convince the fan base that 6-4 wasn't that bad. It's about the hunger and drive to become a program that wins 10 games in a season regularly. 

Actually, come to think of it, did you even read the OP?

[AuCivilEng1 11,049]

3 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Middle of the pack? We've won the 13th most games of any school in NCAA history.

But no, it's not about the belief that we are underperforming at 8-4. It's about the complacency with 8-4, the trying to convince the fan base that 6-4 wasn't that bad. It's about the hunger and drive to become a program that wins 10 games in a season regularly. 

Actually, come to think of it, did you even read the OP?

Yea I did. I get it man. Not trying to argue about it. I agree that we shouldn’t be complacent with the status quo. That’s boring. But Malzahn was kind of right. His last year, we probably would have gone 9-3 if we had a regular season with cupcakes. That is a solid season. It’s not great. But it’s solid. I would have called it solid if Harsin would have pulled it off this year. So that’s why I don’t understand the backlash on that comment alone. Malzahn had a ton of things he deserved to be fired for, but that comment, imo was low on the list. 
 

Also, the money Auburn is willing to pay isn’t always spent on the best things. Lol. Auburn is willing to give coaches stupid extensions and pay buyouts. But they don’t seem to be willing to upgrade the stadium significantly or buy big name HC’s. We don’t spend money wisely as a football program.

[Rednilla 5,401]

14 minutes ago, AUwent said:

@Brad_ATX and @Rednilla:

Ok, and how many years into Harsin's tenure should we demand that we surpass that? Because I think most of us would be ecstatic at 8-4 next year.

You're asking for a definitive value, and I'm not going to even attempt to provide one. 

However, the list you have as your signature quote isn't a bad place to start.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,838]

1 hour ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I still don’t understand the backlash on the 6-4 comment. Yes, no coach should be happy with a 8-4/9-3 season. Completely agree that Malzahn slipped up. But people act like if our coach goes 8-4 they’re underperforming. Auburn’s all time winning percentage is .629. In a 12 game season that’s between 7 and 8 wins. Like it or not. That’s what we are. A middle of the pack football program with the ability to have great years. I’d like to get a coach that envisions us as a 10+ win program. But the odds of it happening after 129 years is low. 

I’m glad we keep on attempting to be better than that all the same, but yeah, it does seem like Gus’s tenure was a microcosm of Auburn, aside from Pat Dye

 

and in some ways, the extreme outlier that Dye has represented in relation to modern Auburn coaches…well that’s also part of the Auburn experience. I guess it’s a very fatalistic viewpoint I’m giving 🤣

[AUwent 3,778]

10 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

You're asking for a definitive value, and I'm not going to even attempt to provide one. 

However, the list you have as your signature quote isn't a bad place to start.

I just don't see many people providing a similar outline. I see a lot of "Harsin is going to take us beyond the mediocrity of Gus!" while seeing how we should just hope to make a bowl next year. Fair, as that's what I wrote, but at a certain point we need to start expecting better than what we had this year. I obviously maintain that 2023 needs to be the step forward but I just have a gut feeling that at this time next year we'll be staying the same things currently being said. If we're still saying that, then Harsin should be on the hot seat entering year 3. If things are legitimately looking good (as in, we're talking about winning ~9 games in year 3), then he should not. We are definitely going where I want defensively, but I see very little to indicate the same offensively. Now, if Joiner commits to us tomorrow and he's planned as an OL, there's a start.

Edited January 1, 2022 by AUwent

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,838]

Really I just don’t think we’ll break a 130 year trend until we hire a coach that has already broken mold. Some programs have gotten lucky hiring the plucky upstart. We’ve gotten that archetype right once, and wrong quite a few more times 

[Rednilla 5,401]

3 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Yea I did. I get it man. Not trying to argue about it. I agree that we shouldn’t be complacent with the status quo. That’s boring. But Malzahn was kind of right. His last year, we probably would have gone 9-3 if we had a regular season with cupcakes. That is a solid season. It’s not great. But it’s solid. I would have called it solid if Harsin would have pulled it off this year. So that’s why I don’t understand the backlash on that comment alone. Malzahn had a ton of things he deserved to be fired for, but that comment, imo was low on the list. 
 

Also, the money Auburn is willing to pay isn’t always spent on the best things. Lol. Auburn is willing to give coaches stupid extensions and pay buyouts. But they don’t seem to be willing to upgrade the stadium significantly or buy big name HC’s. We don’t spend money wisely as a football program.

That comment was the straw that broke the camel's back. His focus wasn't on getting better, his focus was on convincing people that what he had done was pretty good. 

[Rednilla 5,401]

8 minutes ago, AUwent said:

I just don't see many people providing a similar outline. I see a lot of "Harsin is going to take us beyond the mediocrity of Gus!" while seeing how we should just hope to make a bowl next year. Fair, as that's what I wrote, but at a certain point we need to start expecting better than what we had this year. I obviously maintain that 2023 needs to be the step forward but I just have a gut feeling that at this time next year we'll be staying the same things currently being said. If we're still saying that, then Harsin should be on the hot seat entering year 3. If things are legitimately looking good (as in, we're talking about winning ~9 games in year 3), then he should not. 

I think the main thing is that we want to see steady improvement towards becoming the caliber program our two biggest rivals are at right now. If we're not to 8-4, with prospects looking even more positive going forward, by 2023, then Harsin's seat is going to be uncomfortably warm at best.

[AUwent 3,778]

10 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

I think the main thing is that we want to see steady improvement towards becoming the caliber program our two biggest rivals are at right now. If we're not to 8-4, with prospects looking even more positive going forward, by 2023, then Harsin's seat is going to be uncomfortably warm at best.

Glad we can come to an agreement.

(I slightly modified my sig just now--equivalent expectations, it's just that previously I was accounting for the pre-Red River Twins  schedule, which was set to go through '25; we were scheduled to play Vandy in '23, Florida in '24 and Tennessee in '25, which is why I said 9 in '23 and 8 in '24.)

Edited January 1, 2022 by AUwent