jj3jordan 2,078 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, TexasTiger said: So God made gay people and they are his beloved children? God made people. After that people have free will to accept or reject God. If they reject God, they are extremely susceptible to the sin and evil in the world, even if that sin is falsely cloaked in righteousness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,120 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, jj3jordan said: God made people. After that people have free will to accept or reject God. If they reject God, they are extremely susceptible to the sin and evil in the world, even if that sin is falsely cloaked in righteousness. Do you vote for people extremely susceptible to sin and evil in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,078 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: Do you vote for people extremely susceptible to sin and evil in the world? Everyone is susceptible to sin and evil, those who accept God have tools to resist. As far as I know I do not. Is this relevant to gay marriage? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 983 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said: Even accepting that people are born with homosexual tendencies, I am having a difficult time following the import you suggest. No one is instinctively good; all have sinful desires in their hearts; Bill may desire A, Bob may desire B; A and B can be totally different things, but both nevertheless sinful; God wants Bill to turn from A, Bob from B. Right? The example you put at the end is still an example that homosexuality is a choice. A better example would be if God created Billy a homosexual. God also created Bob specifically for Billy and he was also homosexual. Bob and Billy live a Christian life and save themselves for each other. Both ask for forgiveness of their sins, except they leave out their homosexual relationship, because why would this be a sin when God created it. Do you believe God has made a mistake and they are living their life in sin and destined for hell? Did we make a mistake in translating the Bible and they were living the life God intended and will see them in heaven? Should they have gone against God's will and faked a heterosexual marriage with Jill and Jane instead and left Jill and Jane's partners out of luck? Should they have married but stayed celibate and miss out on the love God gifted us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,120 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, jj3jordan said: Everyone is susceptible to sin and evil, those who accept God have tools to resist. As far as I know I do not. Is this relevant to gay marriage? It’s relevant to your stated beliefs regarding gay marriage. Did you vote for Trump? See him as following Christ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed 1,666 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) I believe we need to be careful with the term "God created xyz (Billy/Bob)". The bible only specifies he created Adam and Eve. Now maybe God created others but its not specifically stated. What we do know is after Adam and Eve, humans were procreated as the result of "normal" or "non-normal relations" between a woman and a man. That is until the 20th century when science allow for procreating without any "relations" between a woman and a man. Edited June 8, 2023 by creed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,078 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: It’s relevant to your stated beliefs regarding gay marriage. Did you vote for Trump? See him as following Christ? Well I said accepting God versus rejecting God not following Christ, so nice try. Yes I voted for Trump in the general election. Cruz in the primary. Trump has openly stated he believes in God and I believe his public exposure has actually affected him in positive ways he did not expect. Pro life alone is a big topic. Would I want him as my pastor? Brother in law? Boss? Partner in business? Partner in a $2 Nassau? All no. Trump has a long way to go to be accused of following Christ. Trump at least publicly supported numerous issues I support. The alternative was Hillary and Biden. Hillary supports abortion on demand plus gov control of health care and led the charge to destroy Bill’s dalliances all the while throwing the family Bible at him. All this while purporting herself to possibly be a Methodist minister. Joe and his devout Catholic friends like Pelosi also pro abortion flaunting the church and its teachings are more fake than Trump could ever be. Is this thread about voting? Are you changing the topic to one you feel more justified in supporting? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,120 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, jj3jordan said: Well I said accepting God versus rejecting God not following Christ, so nice try. Yes I voted for Trump in the general election. Cruz in the primary. Trump has openly stated he believes in God and I believe his public exposure has actually affected him in positive ways he did not expect. Pro life alone is a big topic. Would I want him as my pastor? Brother in law? Boss? Partner in business? Partner in a $2 Nassau? All no. Trump has a long way to go to be accused of following Christ. Trump at least publicly supported numerous issues I support. The alternative was Hillary and Biden. Hillary supports abortion on demand plus gov control of health care and led the charge to destroy Bill’s dalliances all the while throwing the family Bible at him. All this while purporting herself to possibly be a Methodist minister. Joe and his devout Catholic friends like Pelosi also pro abortion flaunting the church and its teachings are more fake than Trump could ever be. Is this thread about voting? Are you changing the topic to one you feel more justified in supporting? No, I just always wonder when folks cite deep religious beliefs for opposing gay rights how they square that with embracing an obviously Godless man. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFAN78 3,943 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 52 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: No, I just always wonder when folks cite deep religious beliefs for opposing gay rights how they square that with embracing an obviously Godless man. In the interest of fairness, we can go back a couple centuries at minimum to discuss Godless men and women for that matter. Kind of a wash if you will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,902 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 9 hours ago, arein0 said: Please just read the sermon I linked last night. He is able to communicate my thoughts more clearly than I am. I did read some and skimmed through the rest. The guy did a good job and well prepared for his speech. From the go he recognized Gods creation did not include homosexuality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 hour ago, arein0 said: A better example would be if God created Billy a homosexual. Okay. You’ve explained your premise clearly. I’m exploring it. I’ll ask it again: What if a person has a burning lust for lower animals? Should Christians then approve that person engaging in bestiality on ground that it is not abnormal for that person? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,902 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 3 hours ago, homersapien said: Science has proven that homosexuality is not a "choice". Science has not proven that there is no God. Something created your “ Big Boom”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,703 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said: What if a person has a burning lust for lower animals? Should Christians then approve that person engaging in bestiality on ground that it is not abnormal for that person? @CoffeeTiger already addressed this..... No, because the animal doesn't have the intelligence or capability to consent to sexual relationships with humans, and it is considered a form of abuse. Just like it's illegal to have non-consensual sex with humans or with anyone who is not capable of giving reasoned consent. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,902 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 hour ago, TexasTiger said: Did you vote for Trump? See him as following Christ? Yes and no would be my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 983 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: Okay. You’ve explained your premise clearly. I’m exploring it. I’ll ask it again: What if a person has a burning lust for lower animals? Should Christians then approve that person engaging in bestiality on ground that it is not abnormal for that person? No, Coffee's post below explains why not. 3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said: No, because the animal doesn't have the intelligence or capability to consent to sexual relationships with humans, and it is considered a form of abuse. Just like it's illegal to have non-consensual sex with humans or with anyone who is not capable of giving reasoned consent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said: No, because the animal doesn't have the intelligence or capability to consent to sexual relationships with humans, and it is considered a form of abuse. But I thought God doesn’t care about sexuality, right? What about a man who has a burning lust for multiple wives? Or a man who desires multiple sexual partners? Must Christians approve these simultaneous relations as part of the man’s sexuality? @arein0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 minute ago, arein0 said: No, Coffee's post below explains why not. But the man was born with a desire to have sexual relationships with animals. You say we should approve men who desire sexual relations with other men on ground that God created it, yes? Why can’t the same be true for men inclined to bestiality? How about incest? I could keep going…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,120 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Leftfield said: @CoffeeTiger already addressed this..... No, because the animal doesn't have the intelligence or capability to consent to sexual relationships with humans, and it is considered a form of abuse. Just like it's illegal to have non-consensual sex with humans or with anyone who is not capable of giving reasoned consent. How about brother and sister? Does that warrant approval? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,120 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, NolaAuTiger said: How about brother and sister? Does that warrant approval? Are you asking for yourself? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arein0 983 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said: But I thought God doesn’t care about sexuality, right? What about a man who has a burning lust for multiple wives? Or a man who desires multiple sexual partners? Must Christians approve these simultaneous relations as part of the man’s sexuality? @arein0 All of these questions are questions about lust, not sexuality. Which again shows you cannot grasp the concept that homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you didn't choose to be heterosexual, homosexuals didn't choose to be homosexual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, arein0 said: All of these questions are questions about lust, not sexuality. Which again shows you cannot grasp the concept that homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you didn't choose to be heterosexual, homosexuals didn't choose to be homosexual. Sure these are questions about sexuality! Please address them. Joe is sexually attracted to his sister and vice versa. They love each other. Do we approve or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,078 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 hour ago, TexasTiger said: No, I just always wonder when folks cite deep religious beliefs for opposing gay rights how they square that with embracing an obviously Godless man. Believing in God is hardly “deep religious beliefs” but whatever. I don’t oppose gay rights. Who does? The question was about Biblical marriage and the answer is clear. Whether you choose to believe it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftfield 2,703 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, NolaAuTiger said: How about brother and sister? Does that warrant approval? I'm assuming you're asking for approval by the Church? No, because approval would set up the potential for procreation of children with severe birth defects. Same reason we have laws against it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NolaAuTiger 3,295 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 Just now, Leftfield said: I'm assuming you're asking for approval by the Church? No, because approval would set up the potential for procreation of children with severe birth defects. Same reason we have laws against it. So, as long as they don’t procreate, all is okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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