Georgia Grand Jury Returns 10 out of 10 Charges

[Didba 5,256]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Of course not. If the Democrats put up a palatable candidate to oppose Trump, I'll vote Democrat.

I’m glad to hear that. 

[AU9377 5,024]

I would add to this discussion just one reminder to people.  DAs over charge as a matter of course.  Don't be surprised if/when some of these charges get dismissed or individual defendants have their cases separated or moved from the core charges.  I also wouldn't be shocked if the case ends up being transferred to Federal Court.   Whatever happens, I can assure everyone that this won't be ready for trial within 6 months.

[Didba 5,256]

42 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I would add to this discussion just one reminder to people.  DAs over charge as a matter of course.  Don't be surprised if/when some of these charges get dismissed or individual defendants have their cases separated or moved from the core charges.  I also wouldn't be shocked if the case ends up being transferred to Federal Court.   Whatever happens, I can assure everyone that this won't be ready for trial within 6 months.

Why would it get transferred to federal court? 

[TexasTiger 12,998]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

I’m glad to hear that. 

He’s referring to either RFK Jr or Andrew Johnson, may he rest in peace.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

20 hours ago, Didba said:

You guys could just vote for third party and/or not vote then send letters/call your congressmen at the state and federal level to tell them that you didn’t vote at all/voted independent in protest of the terrible candidates the GOP keeps putting forth. If enough republicans did that y’all might actually get some change. 

Doesn't that apply to Dems as well?

[AU9377 5,024]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Why would it get transferred to federal court? 

The argument will differ depending on the defendant, but some will do as Mark Meadows has done here and argue that their actions were nothing more than carrying out their duties as an officer of the United States.  Others will argue that it should be move due to bias.  I'm not saying that these are all good arguments, but they are possibilities, depending on the judge.  If one federal judge pulls the case in, it becomes more likely that the entire case gets moved.

Of course, the federal court would be applying Georgia law.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/15/meadows-georgia-case-federal-court-00111382

Edited August 17, 2023 by AU9377

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Doesn't that apply to Dems as well?

See my answer to Mikey asking the same question at the bottom of the previous page. Short answer: yes. 

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The argument will differ depending on the defendant, but some will do as Mark Meadows has done here and argue that their actions were nothing more than carrying out their duties as an officer of the United States.  Others will argue that it should be move due to bias.  I'm not saying that these are all good arguments, but they are possibilities, depending on the judge.  If one federal judge pulls the case in, it becomes more likely that the entire case gets moved.

Of course, the federal court would be applying Georgia law.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/15/meadows-georgia-case-federal-court-00111382

That makes sense!

[TitanTiger 20,509]

7 hours ago, Mikey said:

If that action helps hand the election to Biden, then no. I'm not willing to sacrifice the United States for four more years just to send a message. My first order of business is to get Biden out of there.

Also, by your reckoning Democrats should do the same if Biden is their nominee. He is also a terrible candidate.

Then enjoy the s*** sandwich. They know they don’t have to care what you think, you’ll pull that R lever no matter what. 

[AU9377 5,024]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

Then give me someone to vote FOR. Because Trump and Biden are both horrible choices and one of them has better policies. Try looking at it this way: I wouldn't be voting for Trump, I'd be voting against Biden. Voting against his kow-towing to the Green New Deal idiots, refusal to do anything about the border, his war on energy and loss of trust from our foreign friends and lack of fear or even respect from our foreign adversaries. Do you think Putin would have invaded Ukraine if Biden hadn't wimped out in Afghanistan? I doubt it.

We went through this three years ago. It the same now. Forget Trump for just a brief time and consider the damage Biden can do with an additional four years. Contrary to the statement that "He can only do a limited amount of damage in four years", we've already seen what disasters he has accomplished in just 2&1/2 years.

You don't think the term "disasters" is a bit of a stretch?  I mean, it isn't like he is hell bent on destroying our alliances around the world, while defending Putin and singing his praises.  Our "friends" were not enjoying the uncertain foreign policy of the Trump administration.  We were not a dependable partner and they are skeptical to this day, unsure if we can be counted on or if we will re-elect the man again.

[Didba 5,256]

10 hours ago, Mikey said:

Of course not. If the Democrats put up a palatable candidate to oppose Trump, I'll vote Democrat.

Oh, one more hypo, what if the democratic candidate is Bernie Sanders but ten years younger to negate the obvious yeah he’s waaaay too old now. Would you vote against Trump then? 

[AUDub 11,169]

11 minutes ago, Didba said:

Oh, one more hypo, what if the democratic candidate is Bernie Sanders but ten years younger to negate the obvious yeah he’s waaaay too old now. Would you vote against Trump then? 

The only democrats Mikey would vote for are of the dixiecrat flavor. 

[auburnatl1 5,007]

25 minutes ago, Didba said:

Oh, one more hypo, what if the democratic candidate is Bernie Sanders but ten years younger to negate the obvious yeah he’s waaaay too old now. Would you vote against Trump then? 

Trump coined  maga because he simply read the room and knew what an under served faction wanted to hear.  Sales 101. He’s certainly not an ideologue and believes only what serves him Bernie is a pure ideologue and a socialist - and by any historic definition of a U.S. “democrat”, he isn’t one. He’s way left of that.  Imo trump is dangerous in one way because he needs to … matter - and will destroy literally anything to achieve it. Bernie is dangerous is a different way - he’s a zealot.

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Trump coined  maga because he simply read the room and knew what an under served faction wanted to hear.  Sales 101. He’s certainly not an ideologue and believes only what serves him Bernie is a pure ideologue and a socialist - and by any historic definition of a U.S. “democrat”, he isn’t one. He’s way left of that.  Imo trump is dangerous in one way because he needs to … matter - and will destroy literally anything to achieve it. Bernie is dangerous is a different way - he’s a zealot.

Not a socialist. Not a Zealot. He is a moderate democratic socialist that would be slightly left of center European democracies. Let's just stipulate to that and move on, I don't feel like re-hashing the European vs American democracy political spectrum.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Didba

[Mikey 16,711]

7 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Then enjoy the s*** sandwich. They know they don’t have to care what you think, you’ll pull that R lever no matter what. 

Then put up some candidate better than Biden. Otherwise you are doing what you're falsely accusing others of doing. I pull the lever for the candidate that will be best for America. That's different from those who pull the D lever because they hate Trump personally and don't care about the consequences.

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You don't think the term "disasters" is a bit of a stretch?  I mean, it isn't like he is hell bent on destroying our alliances around the world, while defending Putin and singing his praises.  Our "friends" were not enjoying the uncertain foreign policy of the Trump administration.  We were not a dependable partner and they are skeptical to this day, unsure if we can be counted on or if we will re-elect the man again.

Disasters is not a stretch at all. Disaster at the border, disaster in Afghanistan, disaster with the economy. I could go on but those should be enough disasters for any Biden supporter to digest. We were a dependable partner and Putin knew not to mess with America until Bungling Biden took over.

13 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Whatever happens, I can assure everyone that this won't be ready for trial within 6 months.

Of course it won't. The whole purpose of these charges is to hinder Trump's campaign effort. They will drag these things out until or close to election day 2024.

3 hours ago, Didba said:

Oh, one more hypo, what if the democratic candidate is Bernie Sanders but ten years younger to negate the obvious yeah he’s waaaay too old now. Would you vote against Trump then? 

I'd certainly vote for Trump over the socialist Sanders. You said palatable Democrat. Sanders doesn't qualify.

3 hours ago, AUDub said:

The only democrats Mikey would vote for are of the dixiecrat flavor. 

Admittedly it was a huge mistake, but when did Obama become a Dixiecrat? I did vote for him the first time. Not the second. Fool me once, etc. Still, being that far off the mark in judging Obama is humiliating. I don't regret voting for B. Clinton twice, he was ok. I had always thought my biggest mistake would be voting for Jimmy Carter the first time he ran, but then along came Obama.

[Didba 5,256]

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I'd certainly vote for Trump over the socialist Sanders. You said palatable Democrat. Sanders doesn't qualify.

He has none of the baggage of Biden or Trump, would enact legislation that would benefit you and I, while keeping corporations more in check than both the moderate democrats and republicans do.

He also isn't a socialist but a socialist democrat, no different than 60-70% of the politicians in European democracies. That's just established fact in the academic world. Like he literally doesn't fit under the definition of a true socialist.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Didba

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Trump coined  maga because he simply read the room and knew what an under served faction wanted to hear.  Sales 101. He’s certainly not an ideologue and believes only what serves him Bernie is a pure ideologue and a socialist - and by any historic definition of a U.S. “democrat”, he isn’t one. He’s way left of that.  Imo trump is dangerous in one way because he needs to … matter - and will destroy literally anything to achieve it. Bernie is dangerous is a different way - he’s a zealot.

man I am just gonna say now, you have been typing for waaay too long now for what should have been a short response if responding to me.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Didba

[Mikey 16,711]

5 minutes ago, Didba said:

He also isn't a socialist but a socialist democrat, no different than 60-70% of the politicians in European democracies.

I don't want this nation to emulate the Europeans. If they are so damn smart why do we always end up bailing them out of their own self-made troubles?

Is Tulsi Gabbard still a Democrat? I'd vote for her over Trump.

[auburnatl1 5,007]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

Not a socialist. Not a Zealot. He is a moderate democratic socialist that would be slightly left of center European democracies. Let's just stipulate to that and move on, I don't feel like re-hashing the European vs American democracy political spectrum.

It’s not a debate. He would align to the socialist party in any Northern European country.  Lived there for 10 years.  I agree there’s not a 1-10 socialist scale, but a charming term like moderate just isn’t accurate. Imo when someone honeymoons in the Soviet Union instead of Cancun at the peak of the Cold War, it’s kinda says something.

[Cardin Drake 1,853]

To return briefly to the subject of the Fulton county indictment, there's a pretty good article here: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theamericanconservative.com%2Fwelcome-to-the-circus-georgia-gets-in-the-ring%2F

I think Trump taking this to trial might be a good thing for him.  I'd like to see the fraud charges aired in a high profile venue where the nation is watching.

(Excerpt from the article)

Reading through the 41-count, 98-page Fulton County indictment, the facts are already well-known. One major event involves Ruby Freeman. Based upon my discussion with witnesses, this low-level Georgia poll worker got spooked after the November 2020 election, asked to speak at a police station, and copped to witnessing, and participating in, voter fraud in the state. Since then, the story in the media has flipped: Rather than whistleblowing on Democratic voter fraud, Ruby Freeman is the victim of witness intimidation. Bringing her to the witness stand and disclosing the evidence she provided (including the police body cam footage where she admits to the fraud) is probably not wise for Democrats in the state.

 

[AUDub 11,169]

6 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

It’s not a debate. He would align to the socialist party in any Northern European country.  Lived there for 10 years.  I agree there’s not a 1-10 socialist scale, but a charming term like moderate just isn’t accurate. Imo when someone honeymoons in the Soviet Union instead of Cancun at the peak of the Cold War, it’s kinda says something.

Lol no he wouldn't. He's align with the Soc-Dems of the Nordic countries more closely. 

The actual left in most western countries would consider him a lightweight moderate. 

[Didba 5,256]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

It’s not a debate. He would align to the socialist party in any Northern European country.  Lived there for 10 years.  I agree there’s not a 1-10 socialist scale, but a charming term like moderate just isn’t accurate. Imo when someone honeymoons in the Soviet Union instead of Cancun at the peak of the Cold War, it’s kinda says something.

It’s not a debate. You have stated your opinion. I am not stating an opinion. He isn't a socialist. He would align to the democratic socialist party in any European country, including France, England, Germany, Spain, and Italy. Within the international academic political science community this is established and understood as fact.  Socialism doesn't even exist anymore. It's just communism at the extreme far left and then everything else is a flavor of socialist democracies.

[Didba 5,256]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Lol no he wouldn't. He's align with the Soc-Dems of the Nordic countries more closely. 

The actual left in most western countries would consider him a lightweight moderate. 

[AUDub 11,169]

"I LIVED THERE FOR 10 YEARS!" 

Yeah well I slayed the Jabberwocky and saved Narnia.

Edited August 18, 2023 by AUDub

[auburnatl1 5,007]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Lol no he wouldn't. He's align with the Soc-Dems of the Nordic countries more closely. 

The actual left in most western countries would consider him a lightweight moderate. 

I appreciate your conviction about Europe, but no. If your point is sort of he doesn’t want to nationalize every single industry, that we know of, and that’s the current definition of a “moderate” - sure, ok.