Stop praising Freeze for everything good but blaming Harsin and Gus for everything bad

[GreenTiger 1,007]

Zero brings up some good points and fair concerns. It’s a really, really bad loss and the past coaches excuses have no bearing this week and probably need to be put to rest. 
 

I’m having a difficult time figuring out how I feel about CHF and the job he is doing. Certainly some positive things are happening in the program and in recruiting. On the field coaching or whatever he is doing in that area has been a head scratcher. I would expect Coach Montgomery to be replaced after the season and hopefully the replacement can run a better offense.

 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 hour ago, GreenTiger said:

Zero brings up some good points and fair concerns. It’s a really, really bad loss and the past coaches excuses have no bearing this week and probably need to be put to rest. 
 

I’m having a difficult time figuring out how I feel about CHF and the job he is doing. Certainly some positive things are happening in the program and in recruiting. On the field coaching or whatever he is doing in that area has been a head scratcher. I would expect Coach Montgomery to be replaced after the season and hopefully the replacement can run a better offense.

 

It's a bad loss , a horrible loss. But to say past recruiting classes or the lack there of have nothing to do with it is a stretch IMO. If u want to say  the transfers Freeze brought in have underperformed or haven't been coached up then that's a different case. On the flip side , if the last 2 or 3 recruiting classes were any good or if they were still on the roster, Harsin would prob still be here

Edited November 20, 2023 by NWALA Tiger

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

Time will be gauge of success. Always will be. This embarrassing loss will either be a blip on the radar OR will be looked upon as the beginning of the unraveling of the Freeze Era. 

We can all argue our points till the cows come home. But time will have the final say so.  BTW, this hire was approved by the "Big guy", so I wouldn't expect time to be running out anytime soon

Edited November 20, 2023 by NWALA Tiger

[maryland tiger 616]

14 hours ago, CCTAU said:

TL:DR. The cupboard is bare. And that’s on Harsin and Gus!

The effort showed last Saturday is not on Hardin and Gus. It was an embarrassment for Auburn and its fans. Gus and Harsin never got beat that badly by a less talented, power 5 team. 

[EagleEye67 1,947]

Helluva melt

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

Just being fair, Hugh Freeze has always laid a couple eggs per season. And I went back and watched his 2014 team ranked number 8 in the country at Arkansas lose 30-0. They played that soft zone all night and Brett Beilema and Arkansas just ate it alive. I miss Gus and Kevin Steele and I wish we would’ve just stuck with Gus or Steele instead of firing him in the middle of COVID. We traded in Gus for a series of inferior coaches and looking back on it I’m ashamed of the way that we treated him. We’re walking into the desert of college football and I don’t think we’re going to come out of it for years. 

[TitanTiger 20,559]

7 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

Just being fair, Hugh Freeze has always laid a couple eggs per season. And I went back and watched his 2014 team ranked number 8 in the country at Arkansas lose 30-0. They played that soft zone all night and Brett Beilema and Arkansas just ate it alive. I miss Gus and Kevin Steele and I wish we would’ve just stuck with Gus or Steele instead of firing him in the middle of COVID. We traded in Gus for a series of inferior coaches and looking back on it I’m ashamed of the way that we treated him. We’re walking into the desert of college football and I don’t think we’re going to come out of it for years. 

The issue wasn't firing Gus.  It was time.  The issue was the idiot we replaced him with.  We had a chance at a couple of really good coaches and chose the worst of all possible options and it took a problem we had at the end of Gus's tenure and made it multiple times worse.

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

The issue wasn't firing Gus.  It was time.  The issue was the idiot we replaced him with.  We had a chance at a couple of really good coaches and chose the worst of all possible options and it took a problem we had at the end of Gus's tenure and made it multiple times worse.

Ehhh I disagree. You fire Gus after going 6-4 against an all SEC schedule in the middle of COVID. And before that from 2016 to 2019 you went to a sugar bowl, an SEC title game, a disappointing but competitive 2018, and a very competitive 2019 squad that dropped some heartbreakers at Florida and LSU. I just think you have to take a step back and acknowledge that we were consistently towards the top of the SEC from 2016 through 2019 and we’ve been so much worse since then. 

[TitanTiger 20,559]

3 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

Ehhh I disagree. You fire Gus after going 6-4 against an all SEC schedule in the middle of COVID. And before that from 2016 to 2019 you went to a sugar bowl, an SEC title game, a disappointing but competitive 2018, and a very competitive 2019 squad that dropped some heartbreakers at Florida and LSU. I just think you have to take a step back and acknowledge that we were consistently towards the top of the SEC from 2016 through 2019 and we’ve been so much worse since then. 

You're not firing Gus after going 6-4 in one oddball year.  It was far more than that.  When you look at this track record...

12-2
8-5
7-6
8-5
10-4
8-5
9-4
6-4

...you see that it's not just a one year thing.  I'm sorry, 4.7 losses per season since the magical 2013 run is unacceptable at Auburn.  You cannot keep watching that same Groundhog Day episode for seven seasons and really believe it's going to look different in season 8 or 9.

Not to mention, he couldn't recruit OL to save his life and is one of the big reasons we're in the mess we find ourselves in now (Harsin didn't do any better but this OL problem started with Gus).

It was past time for him to go.  

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You're not firing Gus after going 6-4 in one oddball year.  It was far more than that.  When you look at this track record...

12-2
8-5
7-6
8-5
10-4
8-5
9-4
6-4

...you see that it's not just a one year thing.  I'm sorry, 4.7 losses per season since the magical 2013 run is unacceptable at Auburn.  You cannot keep watching that same Groundhog Day episode for seven seasons and really believe it's going to look different in season 8 or 9.

Not to mention, he couldn't recruit OL to save his life and is one of the big reasons we're in the mess we find ourselves in now (Harsin didn't do any better but this OL problem started with Gus).

It was past time for him to go.  

Yeah. I get people are pissed about Saturday. Alot reasons to be. But to say Gus to an extent,  but Harsin for sure havent contributed to why we are where we are today is short sided.

[I_M4_AU 8,114]

13 minutes ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Yeah. I get people are pissed about Saturday. Alot reasons to be. But to say Gus to an extent,  but Harsin for sure havent contributed to why we are where we are today is short sided.

You must have quoted the wrong person or misinterpreted what was said.

[Auburn93 586]

15 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

This fanbase LOVES blaming past coaches and staffs for any little thing that goes wrong but then props up the current coach for every little thing that is good. It doesn't work this way!! Gus has been gone going on 4 years now but some here love to keep beating that dead horse. 

I'll get slammed for this but what in Hugh Freeze's past shows you that he is the man that will lead us past what the other coaches did? Recruiting? Well, when he didn't pay for his players, he has been pretty so so. Coaching? When he did pay for players he didn't do any better than current Ole Miss with Kiffin besides 2 Bama wins. I would argue the current Ole Miss product is better than with Hugh but is doing it with classes that are in the 20's nationally. 

Look at Liberty currently. Jamey Chadwell is 11-0 in year 1. Hugh Freeze got housed and I mean HOUSED, his final 4 games at Liberty last year. Hugh also lost as a 33 point favorite to La Monroe. He lost 49-14 to NMSU last year as a 24 point favorite. He lost NMSU yesterday 31-10 as a 25.5 point favorite. Those are swings of 59 points and 46.5 points. Btw, Liberty under Chadwell smoked NMSU 33-17 this season.

These last 2 games are what Hugh Freeze is and has always been. He went into Fayetteville as a 3.5 underdog and beat an Arkansas team by over 5 TD's that had a new OC and had just won in The Swamp for the first time ever last week. 7 days later, riding a 3 game SEC win streak, Hugh's team loses by 3 TD's at home as a 25.5 point favorite and was NEVER, EVER in the ballgame!!!! Yesterday was the first loss that Auburn has suffered at home against a "non-major" opponent since 1991. We had won 84 straight games at home against non-major opponents until yesterday.

Chizik pulled it out against Utah State. Gus pulled it out against Jax State. Harsin pulled it out against Georgia State. Hugh never was close to pulling this game out.

This is what Hugh Freeze has ALWAYS been. Win a game you have no business winning and then lose a game you have no business losing. How is that better than a coach like Gus who could beat LSU and Bama but couldn't beat them in Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa or UGA in Athens? Hugh won't recruit better than Chizik or Gus when it's all said and done. We praise Hugh for every 4 and 5 star he signs but constantly dogged Gus's classes in the top 10 with 4 and 5 stars and claimed "he gets the wrong 4 and 5 stars and just goes after stars and not positions of need." 

If Hugh accomplished what our past coaches accomplished, alot of fans would put a statue of the man outside the stadium. I'm sorry but he has NEVER done anything as an OC or HC that tells us he will be better than what Chizik or Gus was but everybody props him up as some coaching savant. He hasn't beaten a team with a winning record this year.

Just be ready for years of riding the wildest rollercoaster known to man because his tenure here will be a rollercoaster. Others have been a rollercoaster as well but they weren't a threat to embarrass the school off the field or get us on a death penalty probation like our current coach. 

But Auburn is as aligned from top to bottom as we've ever been and everybody that matters at Auburn ALL got their coach!!! Or did we just get a coach we knew would be cheap and wouldn't turn us down and we knew we had the leverage over because of his past? Then the Auburn big wigs simply spin it as "we are all aligned" trying to get the entire fanbase onboard with a checkered coach. War Eagle

 

I was with you till the last paragraph.

[Auburn93 586]

15 hours ago, JDUBB4AU said:

This again? To be honest as of right now all three suck 

Gus and Harsin absolutely ruined the people management side of AU

Freeze can’t multitask- you have to coach and recruit. He just said let’s take a dump on 2023. He has a big steamer right now. 

 

Freeze, Gus, and Harsin all currently stink . Change my mind 

a lot of coaches stink. 

[Sizzle 3,925]

With any fan base but especially Auburn’s there always has to be a scapegoat. When we get a new coach and something bad happens with the current coach everybody blames the ex coach. It happened when Harsin was new too.

Tbh I agree with OP, anytime something good happened this year it was because of Freeze, but when something bad happens it was because of the ex coaches. 
 

That excuse won’t save Freeze for long, this is a long rebuilding process but Auburn fans want to see results in year 2. The Auburn HC hot seat can heat up fast

[GreenTiger 1,007]

1 hour ago, NWALA Tiger said:

It's a bad loss , a horrible loss. But to say past recruiting classes or the lack there of have nothing to do with it is a stretch IMO. If u want to say  the transfers Freeze brought in have underperformed or haven't been coached up then that's a different case. On the flip side , if the last 2 or 3 recruiting classes were any good or if they were still on the roster, Harsin would prob still be here

Please read what I said.  “No bearing this week” . There is absolutely no justified argument for loosing to NMSU. Period! 

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

46 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You're not firing Gus after going 6-4 in one oddball year.  It was far more than that.  When you look at this track record...

12-2
8-5
7-6
8-5
10-4
8-5
9-4
6-4

...you see that it's not just a one year thing.  I'm sorry, 4.7 losses per season since the magical 2013 run is unacceptable at Auburn.  You cannot keep watching that same Groundhog Day episode for seven seasons and really believe it's going to look different in season 8 or 9.

Not to mention, he couldn't recruit OL to save his life and is one of the big reasons we're in the mess we find ourselves in now (Harsin didn't do any better but this OL problem started with Gus).

It was past time for him to go.  

And even with all those shortcomings of the Malzahn era we haven’t been anywhere near as good since he left. My family has had season tickets for over 50 years and I’m about to say screw it and do something else with my fall Saturdays. That’s just me. 

[aucom96 1,641]

1 hour ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

I miss Gus and Kevin Steele and I wish we would’ve just stuck with Gus or Steele instead of firing him in the middle of COVID.

I just wish we'd approach a coaching hire more thoughtfully than either "this guy coached at Auburn once!" or "this guy has the secret to beating Saban!" 

I thought we had TRIED to do that with Harsin, but then it turned out he didn't think he had to recruit... which should have come out in interviews. I think our problem is as much with who's hiring the coaches as the coaches themselves. 

[NoALtiger 3,873]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

The issue wasn't firing Gus.  It was time.  The issue was the idiot we replaced him with.  We had a chance at a couple of really good coaches and chose the worst of all possible options and it took a problem we had at the end of Gus's tenure and made it multiple times worse.

Allen Greene just keeps on giving and giving lol. Not enough is mentioned about his atrocious hire and how he went out on his own to find that bozo. It is still affecting us. 

[TitanTiger 20,559]

22 minutes ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

And even with all those shortcomings of the Malzahn era we haven’t been anywhere near as good since he left. My family has had season tickets for over 50 years and I’m about to say screw it and do something else with my fall Saturdays. That’s just me. 

No, because we hired a potato after him instead of an actual good coach.  That doesn't change the fact that the firing was justified.

[gr82be 14,519]

The same old tired and worn out rhetoric that Gus had top ten recruiting classes. Doesn’t matter when you are stuffing the bag with TEs that you don’t use and 4* “athletes” that can’t do anything but run fast. Padding the star ratings was what Gus did more but that’s been stated repeatedly and it falls on deaf ears. There’s a reason Gus and Harsin are blamed, they didn’t do a satisfactory job in recruiting.There will be opportunities to lay full blame on Hugh Freeze but this is not the season for that. 

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

No, because we hired a potato after him instead of an actual good coach.  That doesn't change the fact that the firing was justified.

If you didn’t have a viable alternative or vision for the future then it’s hard to say that the firing was justified. Again, we went to two new years six bowls, won the west twice, won the SEC, competed for a national title, and came up short of the college football playoff a couple of times. We’re so far away from the level of success we had under Gus and there’s no reason to believe that Hugh is going to get back to that level of success. His first season was a failure and it’ll take a long time to erase what they did last Saturday. 

[TitanTiger 20,559]

1 minute ago, OfficiatingExpert said:

If you didn’t have a viable alternative or vision for the future then it’s hard to say that the firing was justified. Again, we went to two new years six bowls, won the west twice, won the SEC, competed for a national title, and came up short of the college football playoff a couple of times. We’re so far away from the level of success we had under Gus and there’s no reason to believe that Hugh is going to get back to that level of success. His first season was a failure and it’ll take a long time to erase what they did last Saturday. 

Well, we kinda did have a viable alternative when we fired him.  But then a faction of the power brokers decided they wanted someone else and a power struggle ensued, resulting in Greene and Gouge taking over and doing their own thing.

But the bottom line is, Gus peaked year one, then averaged almost 5 losses a season for 7 straight years.  He didn't lose less than 4 games the rest of the way.  Recruiting was on the wane and he couldn't get decent OL for at least the last 4 years he was here.  He was being paid far too much for that kind of mediocrity.

[ScotsAU 1,343]

There’s a lot of data manipulation in this OP. I will give the OP one thing… We shouldn’t be blaming Gus at this point. He’s been gone for almost 3 years now. In the world of the transfer portal, that’s plenty time to correct things. But leaving Harsin out of the discussion here is nuts. Freeze hasn’t put together a flawless season, and there’s some games and decisions that (to make the common QB statement) I’m sure he’d like to have back. 
 

But Harsin left a bare cupboard with little talent, no depth, and players who I’d argue have been damaged from his coaching. At this point, we can’t easily separate what completely is on Freeze and what is leftover from Harsin. But there’s no doubt Harsin’s actions have impacted this year’s team. 
 

As for the end of last season at Liberty and the loss to NMSU last year… that narrative just needs to die. The Liberty NMSU game last year was 2 days before the official announcement of him as our head coach happened. The players started playing differently when they heard speculation and later confirmation that Freeze was leaving. That also spilled over into the final game as well I’m sure, and probably spilled over the other way (I.e, speculation had aggressively started that he was taking the Auburn job) into their close loss the previous week to Va Tech. 
 

And for the heck of it… let’s talk about Liberty for a second. Prior to Freeze, they weren’t very good. In fact, they made the move to FBS under the previous coach and struggled. Freeze built that program. Nothing on Chadwell. I think he’s also a good coach. But right now, he’s playing with a team of mostly Freeze recruits. They’ve also had zero… none… nadda… power 5 opponents on their schedule this year compared to last year when they had 3, and beat one of them (Arkansas). 
 

Is Freeze going to be successful at Auburn? It’s too early to know. But take out the mess that was last Saturday, and things generally appear to be moving in the right direction on and off the field. This is just yet another case of GD overreaction that I was talking about on the thread I started yesterday. 

[OfficiatingExpert 126]

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, we kinda did have a viable alternative when we fired him.  But then a faction of the power brokers decided they wanted someone else and a power struggle ensued, resulting in Greene and Gouge taking over and doing their own thing.

But the bottom line is, Gus peaked year one, then averaged almost 5 losses a season for 7 straight years.  He didn't lose less than 4 games the rest of the way.  Recruiting was on the wane and he couldn't get decent OL for at least the last 4 years he was here.  He was being paid far too much for that kind of mediocrity.

I agree with that. I just can’t overlook the fact that Hugh Freeze has had a loss each of the last three seasons where his team was favored by 20+. Doesn’t make me optimistic for the next few years. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

You must have quoted the wrong person or misinterpreted what was said.

My bad