What do you think about Obama's answer

[Tigermike 3,427]

"answering that question with specificity . is above my pay grade."

I don't care what side of the abortion debate you are on, this was simply a cop out:

Asked at what point a baby gets "human rights," Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: ". whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity . is above my pay grade."

No. It's not. Answering that question is how one arrives, at least partially, at their position of being for or against abortion. For a legislator who has passed legislation which directly bears on that determination it is an absolute cop out to claim such a determination is "above my paygrade". If he's passing laws that allow abortion then he is, defacto, making such determinations - his "pay-grade" requires it of him. As far as I'm concerned, claiming he isn't equipped to make such a determination means he's not equipped to be President of the United States either.

[AURaptor 1,137]

But didn't he already answer that question w/ the Illinois abortion bill ?

I'm confused.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

In effect, yes he has answered it. When you look at the various competing ideas about when a baby becomes a human being and you always fall on the side of giving as many rights to the mother and as little as possible to the preborn child, you've given your answer: the child has no human rights whatsoever until it's completely outside the mother's womb. And even then, if the kid is outside the womb because he survived an abortion attempt, it's a coin toss in Illinois as to whether it will be afforded the medical care a normal human being would receive.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

"answering that question with specificity . is above my pay grade."

I don't care what side of the abortion debate you are on, this was simply a cop out:

Asked at what point a baby gets "human rights," Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: ". whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity . is above my pay grade."

No. It's not. Answering that question is how one arrives, at least partially, at their position of being for or against abortion. For a legislator who has passed legislation which directly bears on that determination it is an absolute cop out to claim such a determination is "above my paygrade". If he's passing laws that allow abortion then he is, defacto, making such determinations - his "pay-grade" requires it of him. As far as I'm concerned, claiming he isn't equipped to make such a determination means he's not equipped to be President of the United States either.

[BamaGrad03 0]

I think in his attempt to be more moderate, he feels that if he provides an answer to that question that is commensurate with his voting record, he will not be able to claim he's a moderate.

In other words, to him, he's more pro-choice than planned parenthood and other pro-choice organizations...but to articulate that now would be campaign suicide.

[AURaptor 1,137]

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

As a conservative who is also an atheist, I find your attempted reply a complete cop out. Even w/ out the issue of " god knowing ", the fundamental question remains the same. At what point does human life achieve the status of being an individual recognized by our laws ? And this isn't merely a question of science, but of culture as well. In the Chinese culture, the age of a person is determined when the individual is still a fetus, in the womb, not upon arrival outside the mother's body. ( Unless you're happen to be a female gymnast, then your age is determined yrs before conception, but that's for another thread )

If Obama knows when it's ok to murder an unborn child, he's admitting that child has no rights to humanity, ergo, he's already made at least a partial answer to the question.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

I think in his attempt to be more moderate, he feels that if he provides an answer to that question that is commensurate with his voting record, he will not be able to claim he's a moderate.

In other words, to him, he's more pro-choice than planned parenthood and other pro-choice organizations...but to articulate that now would be campaign suicide.

He's not "more pro-choice" than those organizations:

WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says "mental distress" should not qualify as a justification for late-term abortions, a key distinction not embraced by many supporters of abortion rights.

In an interview this week with "Relevant," a Christian magazine, Obama said prohibitions on late-term abortions must contain "a strict, well defined exception for the health of the mother."

Obama then added: "Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/04/o...e_n_110884.html

But he's clearly the pro-choice candidate in this race. If that's your key issue either way, the decision is pretty easy.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Based on his actual voting record, and not what he told a Christian magazine, he's at least as pro-choice as NARAL. They gave him a rating of 100%.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

As a conservative who is also an atheist, I find your attempted reply a complete cop out. Even w/ out the issue of " god knowing ", the fundamental question remains the same. At what point does human life achieve the status of being an individual recognized by our laws ? And this isn't merely a question of science, but of culture as well. In the Chinese culture, the age of a person is determined when the individual is still a fetus, in the womb, not upon arrival outside the mother's body. ( Unless you're happen to be a female gymnast, then your age is determined yrs before conception, but that's for another thread )

If Obama knows when it's ok to murder an unborn child, he's admitting that child has no rights to humanity, ergo, he's already made at least a partial answer to the question.

There are many on the pro-choice side who have no problem answering that the fetus has no rights at all and that abortion is simply a medical procedure between a woman and her doctor. Obama apparently sees the issue as more complex than that and doesn't deny the moral dimension. Folks can disagree on his ultimate position to support Roe v. Wade, and vote accordingly.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

Based on his actual voting record, and not what he told a Christian magazine, he's at least as pro-choice as NARAL. They gave him a rating of 100%.

No one is denying he is pro-choice and supported by NARAL.

[AURaptor 1,137]

[

There are many on the pro-choice side who have no problem answering that the fetus has no rights at all and that abortion is simply a medical procedure between a woman and her doctor. Obama apparently sees the issue as more complex than that and doesn't deny the moral dimension. Folks can disagree on his ultimate position to support Roe v. Wade, and vote accordingly.

Having no problem answering the question in no way makes the answer 'right' or morally clear. Hitler had no problem gassing millions of Jews, in many muslim countries folks have no problem in stoning to death women merely accused of infidelity, etc.... RvW is viewed honestly by those on both sides of the debate as being a horribly wrong decision, not because of the result of legalized abortions nation wide, but simply because it is a bad law. Being against RvW doesn't mean one is against abortion.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Based on his actual voting record, and not what he told a Christian magazine, he's at least as pro-choice as NARAL. They gave him a rating of 100%.

No one is denying he is pro-choice and supported by NARAL.

BG pointed out that based on his voting record, he's more pro-choice than the likes of NARAL. You answered that based on his answer to Relevant Magazine, he's not. Based on his actual voting record and not campaign year rhetoric, he's in lockstep with NARAL.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

Based on his actual voting record, and not what he told a Christian magazine, he's at least as pro-choice as NARAL. They gave him a rating of 100%.

No one is denying he is pro-choice and supported by NARAL.

BG pointed out that based on his voting record, he's more pro-choice than the likes of NARAL. You answered that based on his answer to Relevant Magazine, he's not. Based on his actual voting record and not campaign year rhetoric, he's in lockstep with NARAL.

To say he's "more pro choice than NARAL" is meaningless political rhetoric, of the type commonly used by Republicans. He's a pro-choice candidate supported by NARAL. No one is denying that.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Well, that's why I restated it: He's just as pro-choice as NARAL, based on his actual voting record.

[autigeremt 6,970]

I think it's pretty clear after watching this event.

McCain isn't going to mice words with his stance. Straight talk, whether you believe in him or not. He also made it a point to look at the people in the audience and relay his message to them.

Obama searches for his words throughout the majority of the Q&A (nothing wrong with methodical answers). He rarely looks at the audience (in and outside the room) which is a turn off for some people.

I thought both did well, but McCain was forceful and direct. I thought given the expectations coming into the evening, John McCain did himself well with this group, and with the voters who may have been watching.

Obama did well in his presentation, but he stumbles a lot in this setting. He's not a great "shoot from the hip" speaker, but makes up for it a lot of times with his speech delivery. I give him kuddos for agreeing to this.

I also thought the format was very nice and a stark contrast to the back and fro of the debate season.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

This sums it up well:

For better or worse, Obama seems to have chosen to treat this event as sort of an intimate evening with Rick Warren — that just happened to be nationally televised. McCain, by contrast, treated it as a straight campaign event: he had his stump speech talking points ready, and he was eager to cram as many of them into his 50 minutes as possible.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/...8_08/014320.php

Obama's replies were more thoughtful and conversational. McCain's were more like political soundbites. The same folks who admired Dubya's rhetorical style will like it.

[WinCrimson 61]

McCain isn't going to mice words with his stance. Straight talk, whether you believe in him or not.

Straight as Lombard Street...

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...c=46946&hl=

[BamaGrad03 0]

Funny I thought BOTH candidates answered questions with stump speech snippets.

[HuntsvilleTiger 0]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

If he doesn't know the answer (and that is what he said), then wouldn't being pro-life be the safe stance in the eyes of God, if you are a true Christian? I know if I don't know the answer to when life begins, I don't want to be killing what God would consider His creation. That's pretty simple. That leads me to believe that Obama does believe he knows when life begins as he's publicly stated/voted that he's not pro-life.

[arnaldoabru 11]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

If he doesn't know the answer (and that is what he said), then wouldn't being pro-life be the safe stance in the eyes of God, if you are a true Christian? I know if I don't know the answer to when life begins, I don't want to be killing what God would consider His creation. That's pretty simple. That leads me to believe that Obama does believe he knows when life begins as he's publicly stated/voted that he's not pro-life.

Are using condoms committing abortion?

[autigeremt 6,970]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

If he doesn't know the answer (and that is what he said), then wouldn't being pro-life be the safe stance in the eyes of God, if you are a true Christian? I know if I don't know the answer to when life begins, I don't want to be killing what God would consider His creation. That's pretty simple. That leads me to believe that Obama does believe he knows when life begins as he's publicly stated/voted that he's not pro-life.

Are using condoms committing abortion?

Nope.....conception hasn't taken place......unless it rips .

None of us have a choice as to whether we are born or not. None of us have a choice as to what nationality, ethnicity, or culture we are born into. Only those who are alive have that choice. The same choice they have in using protection during sex. For those of incest and rape, I think they should have a choice. If their lives are in jeapordy, then they should be able to choose. But the choice of killing the unborn for selfish reasons is very, very debatable.

[Tigermike 3,427]

Obama - Facilitating evil on behalf of abortion.

[arnaldoabru 11]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

If he doesn't know the answer (and that is what he said), then wouldn't being pro-life be the safe stance in the eyes of God, if you are a true Christian? I know if I don't know the answer to when life begins, I don't want to be killing what God would consider His creation. That's pretty simple. That leads me to believe that Obama does believe he knows when life begins as he's publicly stated/voted that he's not pro-life.

Are using condoms committing abortion?

Nope.....conception hasn't taken place......unless it rips .

None of us have a choice as to whether we are born or not. None of us have a choice as to what nationality, ethnicity, or culture we are born into. Only those who are alive have that choice. The same choice they have in using protection during sex. For those of incest and rape, I think they should have a choice. If their lives are in jeapordy, then they should be able to choose. But the choice of killing the unborn for selfish reasons is very, very debatable.

But isn't birth control interferring with God's "plan"

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Obama stated it better at the forum at Messiah College:

MEACHAM: Senator, do you personally believe that life begins at conception? And if not, when does it begin?

OBAMA: This is something that I have not, I think, come to a firm resolution on. I think it's very hard to know what that means, when life begins. Is it when a cell separates? Is it when the soul stirs? So I don't presume to know the answer to that question. What I know, as I've said before, is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when we're having these debates.

He's saying God knows the answer, he doesn't. It's a position that shows some humility. Fundamentalists think they know what God knows. Obama doesn't claim to know what God knows. Of course, the so called "religious" Right will pound him for it. For so many Republicans, religion is just a political tool.

If he doesn't know the answer (and that is what he said), then wouldn't being pro-life be the safe stance in the eyes of God, if you are a true Christian? I know if I don't know the answer to when life begins, I don't want to be killing what God would consider His creation. That's pretty simple. That leads me to believe that Obama does believe he knows when life begins as he's publicly stated/voted that he's not pro-life.

Are using condoms committing abortion?

Nope.....conception hasn't taken place......unless it rips .

None of us have a choice as to whether we are born or not. None of us have a choice as to what nationality, ethnicity, or culture we are born into. Only those who are alive have that choice. The same choice they have in using protection during sex. For those of incest and rape, I think they should have a choice. If their lives are in jeapordy, then they should be able to choose. But the choice of killing the unborn for selfish reasons is very, very debatable.

But isn't birth control interferring with God's "plan"

That really isn't the issue at hand. The issue is ending a human life.

[BamaGrad03 0]

But isn't birth control interferring with God's "plan"

No conception has taken place. No fetus has been delievered as viable after an attempt at killing it while still in the womb.