Who would replace Malzahn (merged threads again)

[DAG 33,982]

I am going to say this one more time. Auburn was able to win a NC with Gene Chizik. We have also been able to go to a NC with Gus. These two guys never built a single thing prior to being head coaches. Nick Saban and UM proved they could win at every level in some fashion as head coaches prior to their Power 5 gigs. People always bring up Nick Saban earlier record but then they forget he was at Michigan State and left them a 10 win team. Something he did not walk into. 

Key characteristics:

coaching tree - who have they came up under

previous history - how successful have they been (use perspective please). If you are coaching at freaking Indiana, your success and achievement will look different than someone who is at Auburn.

Building and development - how have you done at places with little to no support. Are they playing competitive ball? Look like they are getting better?

success - how successful have you been on the side of the ball that you coach?

Those are just some things I look at. 

[bigbird 60,520]

37 minutes ago, lurtz said:

Great topic for a new thread bird.  Care to give us a sketch of what those characteristics are?  C'mon, it will help your post count!

Some are...

Disciplined

Self awareness

Attention to detail

Ability to listen, process, and implement ideas

Highly organized

Good communicators

Highly adaptive

High sense of accountability

[bigbird 60,520]

42 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Who do you trust to make the evaluations? There are a lot of promising young coaches out there. What should the criteria be, and what are the best indicators for success?

What did all of those guys have in common before they got their big shot?

Who do I trust? No clue, maybe a proven search firm/headhunter

To me, coaching tree and pedigree is the biggest criteria when trying to predict future success.

 

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

26 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am going to say this one more time. Auburn was able to win a NC with Gene Chizik. We have also been able to go to a NC with Gus. These two guys never built a single thing prior to being head coaches. Nick Saban and UM proved they could win at every level in some fashion as head coaches prior to their Power 5 gigs. People always bring up Nick Saban earlier record but then they forget he was at Michigan State and left them a 10 win team. Something he did not walk into. 

Key characteristics:

coaching tree - who have they came up under

previous history - how successful have they been (use perspective please). If you are coaching at freaking Indiana, your success and achievement will look different than someone who is at Auburn.

Building and development - how have you done at places with little to no support. Are they playing competitive ball? Look like they are getting better?

success - how successful have you been on the side of the ball that you coach?

Those are just some things I look at. 

There are guys to hire to help find that coach for Auburn. I brought up a name about a month ago. A guy that I dont know a lot about but he does list evaluations on coaches and college players as a specialty. Supposedly coached in some capacity under Belichick. His name is Chris Landry. Now I know this guy has a radio show and may or may not be everyones choice to help decide on a coach for Auburn but there are probably others out there for hire. Somebody that makes it their business to evaluate coaches......not Bo Jackson and Pat Dye. No disrespect to those guys but that isnt what they do daily.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

34 minutes ago, DAG said:

I am going to say this one more time. Auburn was able to win a NC with Gene Chizik. We have also been able to go to a NC with Gus. These two guys never built a single thing prior to being head coaches. Nick Saban and UM proved they could win at every level in some fashion as head coaches prior to their Power 5 gigs. People always bring up Nick Saban earlier record but then they forget he was at Michigan State and left them a 10 win team. Something he did not walk into. 

Key characteristics:

coaching tree - who have they came up under

previous history - how successful have they been (use perspective please). If you are coaching at freaking Indiana, your success and achievement will look different than someone who is at Auburn.

Building and development - how have you done at places with little to no support. Are they playing competitive ball? Look like they are getting better?

success - how successful have you been on the side of the ball that you coach?

Those are just some things I look at. 

Urban yes.  Saban, not so much.  His only head coaching experience prior to Michigan State was at Toledo for one season.  It's the equivalent of Malzahn at Ark State.  The difference is that Saban came to MSU from the NFL (Browns D-Coordinator under Belicheck).

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Urban yes.  Saban, not so much.  His only head coaching experience prior to Michigan State was at Toledo for one season.  It's the equivalent of Malzahn at Ark State.  The difference is that Saban came to MSU from the NFL (Browns D-Coordinator under Belicheck).

So he came from Toledo and then he went to Michigan State where he stayed for several years and built them up. 

Malzhan went to Arkansas State for one year and then came to Auburn. There is no comparison. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, AU80cruiser said:

There are guys to hire to help find that coach for Auburn. I brought up a name about a month ago. A guy that I dont know a lot about but he does list evaluations on coaches and college players as a specialty. Supposedly coached in some capacity under Belichick. His name is Chris Landry. Now I know this guy has a radio show and may or may not be everyones choice to help decide on a coach for Auburn but there are probably others out there for hire. Somebody that makes it their business to evaluate coaches......not Bo Jackson and Pat Dye. No disrespect to those guys but that isnt what they do daily.

Thomas Dimitroff was a scout for the Patriots before the Falcons hired him as their GM. His tenure has been, by far, the most successful era in franchise history. Even with 3 bad years in the middle. How did he respond to those 3 bad years and promptly get the Falcons to the SB? Hired a Pete Carroll disciple. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Urban yes.  Saban, not so much.  His only head coaching experience prior to Michigan State was at Toledo for one season.  It's the equivalent of Malzahn at Ark State.  The difference is that Saban came to MSU from the NFL (Browns D-Coordinator under Belicheck).

 

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

So he came from Toledo and then he went to Michigan State where he stayed for several years and built them up. 

Malzhan went to Arkansas State for one year and then came to Auburn. There is no comparison. 

Also, saban was an assistant CFB coach in some capacity and at 6 different schools- including Ohio State, Michigan State and West Virginia- over the course of 14 years before getting the Toledo job. Gus *still* hasn't been in CFB that long. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

25 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, coaching tree and pedigree is the biggest criteria when trying to predict future success.

Boy, does that loom over this Auburn season like the biggest, darkest cloud ever. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

15 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Who do I trust? No clue, maybe a proven search firm/headhunter

To me, coaching tree and pedigree is the biggest criteria when trying to predict future success.

 

Sorry that first question was kind of rhetorical. I'm really thinking out loud. It seems paramount that an A.D. hires someone who knows how to evaluate coaches, especially younger "un-proven" coaches. I'm wondering who actually does that kind of work, and who's the best at it? Seems like I see A.D.'s following the typical former player, former player, corporate executive format for their search committees. I'm not suggesting that's a bad way to go, necessarily. I'm just wondering what the best way to go about a search actually is. 

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Thomas Dimitroff was a scout for the Patriots before the Falcons hired him as their GM. His tenure has been, by far, the most successful era in franchise history. Even with 3 bad years in the middle. How did he respond to those 3 bad years and promptly get the Falcons to the SB? Hired a Pete Carroll disciple. 

Yes, these guys are out there. We just need to take advantage of a guy like thats talent for finding a coach.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

33 minutes ago, DAG said:

So he came from Toledo and then he went to Michigan State where he stayed for several years and built them up. 

Malzhan went to Arkansas State for one year and then came to Auburn. There is no comparison. 

That's not the qualification you put on your statement.

"Nick Saban and UM proved they could win at every level in some fashion as head coaches prior to their Power 5 gigs."

I was merely pointing out that Saban had really proven nothing as a builder before getting a Power 5 gig.

[DAG 33,982]

24 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

That's not the qualification you put on your statement.

"Nick Saban and UM proved they could win at every level in some fashion as head coaches prior to their Power 5 gigs."

I was merely pointing out that Saban had really proven nothing as a builder before getting a Power 5 gig.

Fair enough but he also wasn't coaching at a program like LSU either for his next gig. Gus was.

[DAG 33,982]

I would've loved to see what Gus could do at Arkansas. To actually build something.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

Fair enough but he also wasn't coaching at a program like LSU either for his next gig. Gus was.

You're right.  MSU has actually been to the CFP

[Scotty2Hotty 520]

On 10/13/2018 at 4:12 PM, Tony87 said:

Out of the above list, Venables has the pedigree and background to be the next big time coordinator that becomes a good HC. 

Exactly who I’ve wanted for 3 years. Defense and recruiting would be a given. He’s been around high-scoring offenses for 20+ years. He’d bring in a quality OC. 

IMO, he’d be a slam dunk hire. 

[bg5 536]

Honest opinion on this whole thing (good or bad) if we beat A&M and Liberty I think  they will give Gus another year.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

1 minute ago, bg5 said:

Honest opinion on this whole thing (good or bad) if we beat A&M and Liberty I think  they will give Gus another year.

 

[bigbird 60,520]

27 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Exactly who I’ve wanted for 3 years. Defense and recruiting would be a given. He’s been around high-scoring offenses for 20+ years. He’d bring in a quality OC. 

IMO, he’d be a slam dunk hire. 

He would..he also won't be a HC for a while if ever.

[augolf1716 21,122]

7 hours ago, AURealist said:

I don't remember calling you ignorant at basketball, baseball or overall.  Did I do that?  Or is it merely exaggeration used to segue to the 'ignorance rant'?  I don't think you're ignorant on sports.  You're in sports.  I'm attempting to explain my point of view - one you don't agree with.  

I'm guessing you like the long hours and such because you continue to do it.  Are you making $7M a year?

Like the personal anecdotes, though.  You should see my golf game.  You know why it's so frustrating?  Because I can easily birdie a hard par 4 and then double bogey the following par 3.  My group calls it the (P-BFU).  Every round is like this.  Lessons, range time, lots of play...  no matter what, for years I'm inconsistent. To make matters worse, the whole handicap system works against inconsistent players.  I guess it's lucky for me that I'm not being paid to play golf, eh? I'd be feeling some heat, for sure.

I know Gus tries.  I was being hyperbolic in my earlier post, not because I thought Gus didn't care, but because based upon your previous statements, it would be logical and just fine if Gus didn't care because no one else cared.  I was pointing out that I didn't like that sort thinking or where it led.  My big complaint is that Gus' trying is not enough - not for the $ he makes.  For the reward of a life guaranteed to be forever without financial worries, Gus should deliver success.  Where we differ is whether or not he's doing that or even can do that.  

I understand standing by our team and coach, come what may.  I love an support the team.  Always have.  But I was against hiring Gus as HC and find myself frustrated and still a bit angry that Gus and Slippin' Jimmy have boxed us in so that even if we wanted to fire Gus today we couldn't. We are prevented from making any changes by pecuniary and political constraints imposed upon us by Gus and Jimmy who played their cards for money, not for Auburn.  In a business sense, they did the right thing for them.  So I really don't feel the urge to 'charge hell with a bucket of water' alongside Gus Malzahn.  I amuse myself imagining that Gus knows the deal sowed some ill-will and that's what prompted his $2M donation to the FOC fund, or maybe he just wanted it sooner?  Who knows?

We'll have to just agree to disagree on player assessment and development.  If you like how that's been going, let's just not talk about it.

Numbers can support an argument, refute an argument or just muddy an argument.  Just as it's possible in representative democracy to win an election without winning the the popular vote, it's also possible for your pitchers to throw 3 perfect games and outscore your opponents 10-1, but still lose the World Series. 

In Gus' case, the numbers that matter are:  6th, 5th @ $7M, 7, 2-3, 5-3, >25th, 0-1, 1-4

I could help you with that

[AURealist 2,185]

1 minute ago, augolf1716 said:

I could help you with that

Dunno.  Outside-in swing.  It's bad.     

But not Charles Barkley bad!   

[aubaseball 2,602]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

I would've loved to see what Gus could do at Arkansas. To actually build something.

I think people undervalue Arkansas.   Arkansas has history.  You can win at Arkansas.  I would also go out on a limb and say it’s easier to maintain and win at Arkansas than it is at auburn.   

[augolf1716 21,122]

18 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Dunno.  Outside-in swing.  It's bad.     

But not Charles Barkley bad!   

Easy fix but I ain't cheap

[AUFAN78 3,894]

20 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Easy fix but I ain't cheap

Pretend you're a walrus. 

[AURealist 2,185]

1 hour ago, augolf1716 said:

Easy fix but I ain't cheap

Like you'd actually charge a fellow tiger.  You.  Always the kidder.