WR coach Cornelius Williams fired

[Hank2020 3,199]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, the point is, while there may be problems in a lot of areas, it's not unreasonable to think that the head coach who is privy to far more information and observation on how guys are being coached and what the specific issues and fixes are in each area than all of us combined has good reason to fire one coach right now and not the others.

Probably the reason Harsin had   Someone sitting in on the WR meetings.

[cole256 17,049]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Not sure if you're being serious but I finally caught some of it last night and really enjoyed it. Like, King James sitting there calling touchdown plays while those lumpheaded dorks make fun of each other? I actually wanted to watch the saban segment but I fell asleep at halftime.

 

Oh speaking of the Manning's is there anyway we can form a gofundme and pay them whatever is needed for their nephew? It would be amazing to have a prodigy at QB

Edited September 28, 2021 by cole256

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oh, and this assumption that highly paid coaches make their decisions based on better information than what we are privy to flew way the hell out of the window several years ago. 

Sorry, I disagree.  The rank and file on this board don't know 1% of what goes on at practice, what's supposed to be happening during a game on a particular play, or behind closed doors.  It's basic common sense to believe that the head coach is way more informed than any of us.

And while it's fine to wonder exactly what led to Corn's firing, it's silly to just assume there's no good reason why he was let go and others haven't been (yet).

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

27 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well hopefully he expects more for the QB, te, o line, d line, secondary....Everybody else

I am not trying to say everyone else is doing well,  But there is a difference between...

A:   asking a QB,OL TE etc.  coach to fix their players lack of picking up slants and blitzes and dozens of techniques used against them.

and

B:    Asking your WR coach to get his guys lined up right or out on the field when their number is called.

 

A: takes a tremendous amount of time to learn ,perfect,  and be able to do without  having to think.

B:   well,  any JR high school player can learn that in a week. 

If the head coach comes over and tells you to fix A,  and it takes more than 1 week,  it is understandable.

If the head coach comes over and tells you to fix B  and it takes more than 1 week,  there is really no excuse.

 

If you aren't coaching the most simple basic things right,  you are hurting the team.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Quietmaninthecorner

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

It's basic common sense to believe that the head coach is way more informed than any of us.

And while it's fine to wonder exactly what led to Corn's firing, it's silly to just assume there's no good reason why he was let go and others haven't been (yet).

Pretty wild that you still assume all that after Gus Malzahn coached your team for 8 years. 

And until that good reason is made available or until those other units actually show that their leadership deserves to remain intact, then it's perfectly fair to wonder.

I mean, if we're going to just shut down all speculation, then you might as well hit the lights on this website. There's literally nothing to talk about if we're not going to question our head coach's decisions. I know you know this. 

[cole256 17,049]

2 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I am not trying to say everyone else is doing well,  But there is a difference between...

A:   asking a QB,OL TE etc.  coach to fix their players lack of picking up slants and blitzes and dozens of techniques used against them.

and

B:    Asking your WR coach to get his guys lined up right or out on the field when their number is called.

 

A: takes a tremendous amount of time to learn ,perfect,  and be able to do without  having to think.

B:   well,  any JR high school player can learn that in a week. 

If the head coach comes over and tells you to fix A,  and it takes more than 1 week,  it is understandable.

If the head coach comes over and tells you to fix B  and it takes more than 1 week,  there is really no excuse.

 

If you aren't coaching the most simple basic things right,  you are hurting the team.

 

Ok so why the defense do the same thing? Why did the Cowboys have that problem last night? Why does it happen every single Saturday by every team?

[cole256 17,049]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Sorry, I disagree.  The rank and file on this board don't know 1% of what goes on at practice, what's supposed to be happening during a game on a particular play, or behind closed doors.  It's basic common sense to believe that the head coach is way more informed than any of us.

And while it's fine to wonder exactly what led to Corn's firing, it's silly to just assume there's no good reason why he was let go and others haven't been (yet).

Who made that assumption?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Pretty wild that you still assume all that after Gus Malzahn coached your team for 8 years. 

I don't see Gus as representative of most coaches at this level.

 

Just now, McLoofus said:

And until that good reason is made available or until those other units actually show that their leadership deserves to remain intact, then it's perfectly fair to wonder.

Again, wonder away.  But some are jumping or close to jumping into assumption that's not warranted.

 

Just now, McLoofus said:

I mean, if we're going to just shut down all speculation, then you might as well hit the lights on this website. There's literally nothing to talk about if we're not going to question our head coach's decisions. I know you know this. 

I guess it's a fine line to me between "I wonder what was the breaking point that made him fire this guy" vs "How can he fire the WR coach and not the OL or DL coach?  Must be something else going on."  As if a coach can't reasonably look at one position group and say, "They screw up some but the effort is there and there's only so much we can expect out of guys with that level of talent.  We just need better players," while looking at another and saying, "These are smart, talented kids capable of a whole lot more but the coach isn't getting them there."

[TitanTiger 20,472]

For instance, with the defense.  We've seen the defense make adjustments and fix their mistakes in game.  Saturday we had our two best LBs out for the first half.  McClain gets back in there and the defense shut them down.  They cleaned up the execution and McClain as the QB of the defense fixed the communication issues and alignment problems.  Have we seen any similar adjustments to fix what ails the WRs at all?

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't see Gus as representative of most coaches at this level.

Do you see firing a WR coach 4 games into the season as representative of most coaches at this level?

Quote

Again, wonder away.  But some are jumping or close to jumping into assumption that's not warranted.

 

Quote

I guess it's a fine line to me between "I wonder what was the breaking point that made him fire this guy" vs "How can he fire the WR coach and not the OL or DL coach?  Must be something else going on."  As if a coach can't reasonably look at one position group and say, "They screw up some but the effort is there and there's only so much we can expect out of guys with that level of talent.  We just need better players," while looking at another and saying, "These are smart, talented kids capable of a whole lot more but the coach isn't getting them there."

Seems you're making your own assumption. Of course, you've decided that your assumption is warranted, but maybe it's not so much more warranted than anyone else's? 

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

For instance, with the defense.  We've seen the defense make adjustments and fix their mistakes in game.  Saturday we had our two best LBs out for the first half.  McClain gets back in there and the defense shut them down.  They cleaned up the execution and McClain as the QB of the defense fixed the communication issues and alignment problems.  Have we seen any similar adjustments to fix what ails the WRs at all?

I don't mean to be snarky but do you not just see how you somewhat answered your own question there?

 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

 

Ok so why the defense do the same thing? Why did the Cowboys have that problem last night? Why does it happen every single Saturday by every team?

I didn't see the Cowboys play. 

 

I have not noticed it as much on D.  When did the Defense have  issues lining up correctly?   Has this gotten better in the last few games?   

Obviously in real life no one is perfect.   There will be SOME mistakes, (and may be a lot in one game  every now and then )  but when the simple things  like not  lining up correctly or not even being on the filed are so prevalent, and  the coach doesn't  make any improvement,  something is wrong.    We are 1/3 way through the season,  and we still have issues lining up or being focused enough to realize you should be on the field.

 

[cole256 17,049]

We know the wr group is the least experienced group and this particular game they were missing their starter and best player.

We know that means somebody playing a bunch more time than they have played the entire season.

We saw one of the mistakes literally be that guy who also happens to be new at the position at wr as a whole.

We saw the wr's play better just like we saw the defense start to play better when a QB came in that can actually throw them the ball

We know the production of a wr is very dependent on a qb and our QB isn't the best unlike let's say a defense.

McCain is a vet been in the battles. It would have been great to have a Seth Williams come in and straighten everybody up as he did several times in the past. We know the wr group doesn't have that. 

Nobody said Newton isn't a wr he guess effort but there's just so much he can do. Everybody said he wasn't out there that's fireable. Actually nobody said that during the game because we see every football team do it. But when this came out now we exaggerate it and it happens all the time but there's one specific one that's talked about because it's the one that was actually seen

[W.E.D 11,070]

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

For instance, with the defense.  We've seen the defense make adjustments and fix their mistakes in game.  Saturday we had our two best LBs out for the first half.  McClain gets back in there and the defense shut them down.  They cleaned up the execution and McClain as the QB of the defense fixed the communication issues and alignment problems.  Have we seen any similar adjustments to fix what ails the WRs at all?

Our most experienced WR has been with the team for like 5 weeks.  We don't even have anyone like OP or ZM at wide receiver 

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

SIAD but on the final drive Canion made a hell of a play to come off his dig route to work all the back towards Finley and give him a target on the sideline. Everyone else basically quit on that play. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Do you see firing a WR coach 4 games into the season as representative of most coaches at this level?

I don't even see it as representative of Harsin.  He's never done it before.

 

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Seems you're making your own assumption. Of course, you've decided that your assumption is warranted, but maybe it's not so much more warranted than anyone else's? 

I'm not assuming.  I'm putting out a very reasonable possibility to illustrate why we can't assume he's being unfair by not also firing some other coaches.

I tend to believe that most people at this level of their profession don't act irrationally unless I've been given good reason to believe otherwise.  Harsin has not given me any reason at Auburn or looking at his history at Boise, Arkansas State (or as an OC at Texas) to make me think he's a rash or irrational decision maker.  So the simplest explanation to me is that he sees way more than any of us and made a decision he knew would be questioned based on sound reasons.

 

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

I don't mean to be snarky but do you not just see how you somewhat answered your own question there?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  My point is, if you're going to ask why certain defensive coaches haven't also been fired, look at what even the average coach potato can see.  The defense has had lapses but also has shown the ability to correct them and get better.  Can anyone honestly say they've seen anything similar out of the WRs?  If that's the case, maybe there's your answer - the WRs are not just messing up like you might expect a bunch of sophomore to do (although Robertson and Shed Jackson are seniors), they aren't improving.

[cole256 17,049]

Just now, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I didn't see the Cowboys play. 

 

I have not noticed it as much on D.  When did the Defense have  issues lining up correctly?   Has this gotten better in the last few games?   

Obviously in real life no one is perfect.   There will be SOME mistakes, (and may be a lot in one game  every now and then )  but when the simple things  like not  lining up correctly or not even being on the filed are so prevalent, and  the coach doesn't  make any improvement,  something is wrong.    We are 1/3 way through the season,  and we still have issues lining up or being focused enough to realize you should be on the field.

 

There was a play where Prescott went to hand the ball off and the hb wasn't on the field. My point is this happens on all levels. You are much more likely to seeing something like that happen than seeing no mistakes actually.

Penn st we literally lost the game because we couldn't line up and know who is supposed to do what. The ga st game we were misaligned and db's running on off who's supposed to be where....then the experienced leader came in and everything got back on track. Wr's don't have that. But it does show how important having that can be.

Nobody has shown this prevalent problem happening more than 4 times. Nobody has actually showed it more than once but I'm going to say I could've missed a couple because like you said we all make mistakes

[cole256 17,049]

2 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Our most experienced WR has been with the team for like 5 weeks.  We don't even have anyone like OP or ZM at wide receiver 

And for some reason he didn't play, which it's interesting it hasn't came out why by now

[cole256 17,049]

I saw at least one wr make an NFL play when the qb got him the ball. 

Btw our QB has the most experience in the ENTIRE SEC. Has he improved?

[cbo 7,837]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

And for some reason he didn't play, which it's interesting it hasn't came out why by now

This is what I keep wondering about. In the AL State game, it looked like he might be the breakout guy. Then there was a concerted effort to get him the ball at Penn State. Granted, those screens did not come close to working.

But then he is dressed out and doesn't see a snap against GA ST? Very odd. 

[AUApostle 7,651]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And for some reason he didn't play, which it's interesting it hasn't came out why by now

Do you know?  No one can answer this question?

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  My point is, if you're going to ask why certain defensive coaches haven't also been fired, look at what even the average coach potato can see.  The defense has had lapses but also has shown the ability to correct them and get better.  Can anyone honestly say they've seen anything similar out of the WRs?  If that's the case, maybe there's your answer - the WRs are not just messing up like you might expect a bunch of sophomore to do (although Robertson and Shed Jackson are seniors), they aren't improving.

You said yourself in your previous post that the defense got better when a single player came back on the field. You are not acknowledging the severe discrepancy in available talent and experience that Williams was trying to work with versus what the defensive staff is working with. Zakoby McClain might be one of the best four or five players on the team. And many of the other best players on the team are also on defense. Smoke Monday actually just said in a press conference that they didn't change anything schematically on defense in the second half of that game. 

And you are absolutely assuming just as much as anyone else is. Which is totally fine. That is the point.

[cole256 17,049]

Let's not pretend my questions are ridiculous, as you can see my questions and reasons for asking is much stronger than....the final drive they didn't get lined up right

[TitanTiger 20,472]

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

We know the wr group is the least experienced group and this particular game they were missing their starter and best player.

They were missing "a" starter (Shed Jackson - a senior - is also a starter).  Whether he's actually their best player is still up in the air.  He's been inconsistent to say the least.

 

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

We know that means somebody playing a bunch more time than they have played the entire season.

We saw one of the mistakes literally be that guy who also happens to be new at the position at wr as a whole.

But there were several mistakes, not just the one by Caylin.

 

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

We saw the wr's play better just like we saw the defense start to play better when a QB came in that can actually throw them the ball

We know the production of a wr is very dependent on a qb and our QB isn't the best unlike let's say a defense.

Granted.  At the same time we've also seen a LOT of situations where the WRs have not helped the QBs at all.  Just in the Penn St game, going through the 16 incompletions by Nix, at least six of them hit the WR in the hands and should have been caught.  Another 3 or 4 throws were throws to a spot where the receiver wasn't where he was expected to be (including the one PSU almost had a pick six on - the coaches were chewing out Shenker on that one for not running his route correctly).  There were a couple of obvious throwaways by Nix.  And there were probably about 4 throws where Nix just missed the guy - overthrows and such.

That's a high percentage of passes Nix didn't complete that weren't about the QB "not being the best."  Even if say 3 of the 6 passes that hit their hands are brought in, and say 2 of the 4 that were thrown to a spot, the receiver is there like he's supposed to be, how many drives does that keep going?  How much better do Nix's stats look with 5 additional completions?

 

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

McCain is a vet been in the battles. It would have been great to have a Seth Williams come in and straighten everybody up as he did several times in the past. We know the wr group doesn't have that. 

Agreed.  Shed Jackson and/or Robertson, as seniors, ought to be able to step into that role though.  But they have their own issues.  Hard to preach to the younger ones when you're dropping balls and stumbling on routes yourself.

 

6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Nobody said Newton isn't a wr he guess effort but there's just so much he can do. Everybody said he wasn't out there that's fireable. Actually nobody said that during the game because we see every football team do it. But when this came out now we exaggerate it and it happens all the time but there's one specific one that's talked about because it's the one that was actually seen

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here.

[cole256 17,049]

1 minute ago, AUDevil said:

Do you know?  No one can answer this question?

I've been waiting. Nobody didn't ask Harsin. Isn't that weird? Your best guy doesn't play and nobody cares? Especially when you start talking production and the microscope is on the wr's....maybe the editor needs to be fired over these reporters as well 😂

[McLoofus 35,182]

Also, several former Auburn wide receivers- including one who lives in Auburn and goes to every game- are asking the exact same questions that Cole is.