PSU SANCTIONS AND PATERNO

[AU64 10,122]

For a week or so I've been of the opinion that the NCAA really does not have a role in the PSU issue, or at least doesn't have the authority to give PSU the death penalty over a criminal matter that is being actively pursued by several legal authorities.

But after recalling that a few years ago the NCAA threatened harsh penalties for a number of colleges and universities unless they changed their mascots,  I guess it has already been established that the NCAA, in fact, has authority over pretty much whatever aspect of a university's operation it wants to get involved with. 

I do wonder how a couple hundred university presidents, Boards of Trustees, state governors. state legislatures and millions of alums have allowed this basically unelected organization (that seems to be unanswerable to anyone) to reach a level of power that in some ways, exceeds the authority of the Federal Government.

Anyone else out there wondering what's going on there?    IMO, this is about more than PSU. 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

Will we go after any of their that can transfer without loosing any playing time? we need linebackers & d-linemen.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

IMO, the NCAA should shut that program down for at least 2 years plus take away 15 scholarships a year for the next 3 yers.

[walleyau22 0]

IMO, the NCAA should shut that program down for at least 2 years plus take away 15 scholarships a year for the next 3 yers.

What about all the people and businesses that rely on PSU football every year to make a living. T-shirt venders, hotdog stands, bars, places like Tigerrags, Toomers, AuburnArt, J&M. These places make a substancial amount of their living every Saturday that there is a game in town. Are they to be punished too?

[telling tiger 156]

About the competitive advantage issue, do you think PSU would have suffered in recruiting if this had of been handled properly in the beginning, when Sandusky was the DC and assistant HC?  Do you think it would have affected their prez'ssvp's, ad's, or Paterno's longevity at PSU?

A pr hit like that could have had any number of consequences for PSU, most all of them negative.  That is why it was covered up.

Not letting the story get out, not taking any internal action and not involving the authorities of any kind is totally designed to keep the program competitive. Violations are all over this in every way possible. Wins could easily be taken from paterno and not the team. Deservedly so. Many people have said some coaches at other schools have become too powerful. This could be the beginning of the school wagging the football program instead of football wagging the school. Agree with golf's statement from prev post in thread, they would be INSANE to fight the sanctions. More public ridicule and deservedly so. Start cleaning up and become better than you have been. Shameful.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I'm sure you could have said the same thing about those people in Dallas when SMU got slammed  in the late 80s. That doesn't change what went on at SMU and it doesn't change anything with the people in charge at Penn State who covered up everything since the 1990s.

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I was watching BSPN and a lot of Penn State fans still don't get it. Their saying it's totally unfair the way "Joe" is being treated. How about the way those young boys were treated in the shower with Jerry since 1998. It could go back even further then what we know now.

[BirdofPrey76 0]

I was watching BSPN and a lot of Penn State fans still don't get it. Their saying it's totally unfair the way "Joe" is being treated. How about the way those young boys were treated in the shower with Jerry since 1998. It could go back even further then what we know now.

^^THIS^^ Sandusky's perversion didn't just start in 1998. A thorough investigation is needed.

[around4ever 4,139]

I was watching BSPN and a lot of Penn State fans still don't get it. Their saying it's totally unfair the way "Joe" is being treated. How about the way those young boys were treated in the shower with Jerry since 1998. It could go back even further then what we know now.

^^THIS^^ Sandusky's perversion didn't just start in 1998. A thorough investigation is needed.

That is for the legal system to investigate.

[BirdofPrey76 0]

I was watching BSPN and a lot of Penn State fans still don't get it. Their saying it's totally unfair the way "Joe" is being treated. How about the way those young boys were treated in the shower with Jerry since 1998. It could go back even further then what we know now.

^^THIS^^ Sandusky's perversion didn't just start in 1998. A thorough investigation is needed.

That is for the legal system to investigate.

Once again, yes.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

All schools agree to the bylaws, so therefore  the NCAA has a right to uphold any parts that a member institution fails to uphold.  There's a posted section of these bylaws (the whole is easily found online) back on page 2.  Penn State (The School) violated  these, and failed to educate it's staff afterward. These could very well be violations of  2.4, 2.4a. and 2.4b, .  If so thereby the NCAA would have rights to act under 2.8.  of it's bylaws.

I believe (IMHO) some are confusing legal remedy under the law... with enforcement of articles in what's normally called a 'morals clause'.   This organization (the NCAA) has that base covered, and is quite likely to enforce this clause as a breech in it's rules of conduct.  Not under the guise of adjudication of criminal law, which is (most) certainly reserved for our judicial system.  This is a matter of breaking the rules of conduct of the organization, and as such the NCAA can remedy the situation in a number of ways. 

Penn State doesn't  have to like it, and probably needs to be cautious not to cause even more sever penalties... For any attempt to sidestep the NCAA's enforcement, could be taken as a further continuation or failure in it's agreed upon duties as a member institution.  This would not be the criminal or civil prosecution, but an in public B***h-Slap by all their associated Colleges and Universities, and merely conducted by the NCAA.

The NCAA bylaws govern the operation of the university's athletic programs and does not cover the actions of the school or its personnel beyond such.  Sandusky's crimes were not committed during the role of a PSU employee, but as an independent contractor, is my understanding.  He ran different youth oriented programs which had no official affiliation with PSU and during those activities he committed his crimes.  This would deny the reach of the NCAA.  My concern with this over reach by the NCAA is that it would grant itself new unlimited authority.

If the NCAA grants itself this new authority then you have to ask whether you are comfortable with scenarios like: Does the NCAA now have the right to sanction a program because a college-owned computer was used in a murder conspiracy ?  Does the NCAA now have the right to sanction a program because a college-owned vehicle operated by non-licensed operator hits a pedestrian ?  Does the NCAA now have the right to sanction a program because one coach is a tax cheat who stored his records in his office desk ?  Or some similar vagary.  The consequences are far reaching in effect.

[98tiger1345162952 0]

I agree the NCAA is on a slippery slope with this one

[walleyau22 0]

I'm sure you could have said the same thing about those people in Dallas when SMU got slammed  in the late 80s. That doesn't change what went on at SMU and it doesn't change anything with the people in charge at Penn State who covered up everything since the 1990s.

So the NCAA should have power indirectly over the money making interests of any college town? SMU got the death penalty, and to be honest I have always thought it was the first and last time it would ever happen. A town like Dallas or Miami could survive something like that. Do you think Auburn would fare so well if it happened to us? Would you change your tune if Auburn was going to receive the death penalty? State College is a town of about 40000, with surround townships totaling about 100000. A blow to the economy such as no football in a small to mid-size college town like that could be a fare chunk of the city's income. I hate what happened, but it is not a football matter solely because it was a football coach that perpetrated the crime. Should an upstanding citizen suffer the penalty of a few bad men? Would you sit idly by if the NCAA handed down a death penalty on Auburn for a crime indirectly related to football if you were an innocent T-shirt shop owner...thinking perhaps 75% of your business occurs on Saturday during football season.

I think here of Nick Saban's stupid idea of taxing tickets to give money to a child abuse fund. Why should the innocent ticket payers pay even a cent more? Let PSU research the amount that such a tax would make and then THEY incur that cost and make a donation. Further, once they make that payment, do not raise the cost of tickets to cover the loss. If the ticket payers want to make a donation that is both noble and kind of them to do so, but it is not Joe Schmo's fault that a few bad man were bad. He shouldn't be punished for it either.

[around4ever 4,139]

Possible fines included in penalties between $30M and $60M.  That's alot. 

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Possible fines included in penalties between $30M and $60M.  That's alot.   

Here's a link: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027

[walleyau22 0]

Possible fines included in penalties between $30M and $60M.  That's alot.   

WOW. That is alot! :o

[WarEagle10 77]

Possible fines included in penalties between $30M and $60M.  That's alot.   

Here's a link: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027

WOW! It just keep's getting worse for PSU every hour it seems today. This 8 a.m. presser tomorrow is must see. After this fine, and these lawsuits are settled, PSU is going to be seriously hurting financially.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Possible fines included in penalties between $30M and $60M.  That's alot.   

Here's a link: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027

WOW! It just keep's getting worse for PSU every hour it seems today. This 8 a.m. presser tomorrow is must see. After this fine, and these lawsuits are settled, PSU is going to be seriously hurting financially.

PSU endowment is approximately $1.7 billion and the athletic program generates about $116 million annually.  PSU will recover in a decade or two.

[Slammer1 409]

Some folks are finally getting the picture. This is a problem but not a NCAA problem, they are NOT a law enforcement agency. Let the proper authorities handle this.

[Tiger n Miami AU83 25]

Personally, I think the NCAA is making a huge mistake and over stepping their bounds MASSIVELY. IMO, the NCAA has no place here. They have no precedent. They have no authority. They are not within their jurisdiction (so to speak) and they are not operating within the confines of their purpose and existance as an institution at all. We have criminal courts to handle these types of matters. The NCAA is in the wrong galaxy here (not just zip code), and I cannot understand what Emmerrit is doing. At all.

PSU should fight the NCAA every step of the way on this one.

And by the way, I am not coming from a point of caring one bit what happens to PSU. I am coming from a much broader perspective of the NCAA operating WAY WAY out of its bounds in an area that has nothing to do with their actual purpose. It is a horrible idea, what they are doing and if they want to get involved with stuff like this (crimes and felonies) what type of precedent does it set, and where does it begin and end?

[AU64 10,122]

Some folks are finally getting the picture. This is a problem but not a NCAA problem, they are NOT a law enforcement agency. Let the proper authorities handle this.

Yes ^^^

[AU64 10,122]

Personally, I think the NCAA is making a huge mistake and over stepping their bounds MASSIVELY. IMO, the NCAA has no place here. They have no precedent. They have no authority. They are not within their jurisdiction (so to speak) and they are not operating within the confines of their purpose and existance as an institution at all. We have criminal courts to handle these types of matters. The NCAA is in the wrong galaxy here (not just zip code), and I cannot understand what Emmerrit is doing. At all.

PSU should fight the NCAA every step of the way on this one.

And by the way, I am not coming from a point of caring one bit what happens to PSU. I am coming from a much broader perspective of the NCAA operating WAY WAY out of its bounds in an area that has nothing to do with their actual purpose. It is a horrible idea, what they are doing and if they want to get involved with stuff like this (crimes and felonies) what type of precedent does it set, and where does it begin and end?

And This Too  ^^^ 

NCAA got away forcing schools to change their mascots for PC reasons...this is just another power grab.

[around4ever 4,139]

Fines will be donated to an endowment for children's causes.  

[Weegle777 78]

Personally, I think the NCAA is making a huge mistake and over stepping their bounds MASSIVELY. IMO, the NCAA has no place here. They have no precedent. They have no authority. They are not within their jurisdiction (so to speak) and they are not operating within the confines of their purpose and existance as an institution at all. We have criminal courts to handle these types of matters. The NCAA is in the wrong galaxy here (not just zip code), and I cannot understand what Emmerrit is doing. At all.

PSU should fight the NCAA every step of the way on this one.

And by the way, I am not coming from a point of caring one bit what happens to PSU. I am coming from a much broader perspective of the NCAA operating WAY WAY out of its bounds in an area that has nothing to do with their actual purpose. It is a horrible idea, what they are doing and if they want to get involved with stuff like this (crimes and felonies) what type of precedent does it set, and where does it begin and end?

This is exactly why I asked that question in the first place. If the NCAA is allowed to set this precedent, it will happen again and again. And pretty soon there will be no investigations, just punishments.

[Tiger n Miami AU83 25]

One other thing I would like to add that is pure speculation on my part...

I believe Emmerrit has just crumbled under pressure and perception. I believe he has taken criticism the past couple of years regarding the NCAA being impotent in its punishments of programs. The whole nation convicted AU and Cam when there was nothing there and Emmerrit was not able to "lay the smack down". Then the Miami thing and no punishment yet (by the way I have read down here that the penalties may not be horrific as the NCAA has had some trouble cooberrating some things), then USC and Bush and their sanctions do not appear to have had the desired effect (USC appears to be building a powerhouse that may win the NC this year right when they are supposed to be suffering).

So, IMO, Emmerrit decides it is high time to take a stand and flex the NCAA's muscles. And what better than a high profile, horrific and disgusting situation to act in?

Problem is, this situation has absolutely nothing to do with the NCAA, their purpose for existing, or anything else. It is just horribly stupid judgement by Emmerrit and a failure in his position as the head of the NCAA.