PSU SANCTIONS AND PATERNO

[fortworthtiger 34]

The NCAA technically could argue that PSU did gain a competitive advantage because if this had come out in 98, while not nearly as severe as the present circumstances, it still would have rocked the football program in a negative way, especially since Sandusky was still on staff. So by covering up the issue, there was, albeit indirectly, a competitive advantage gained and more directly an obvious lack of institutional control.

There was not any lack of institutional control, there was way too much CONTROL but in the wrong direction.

I know you understand this, but from an ethical standpoint, there was an egregious lack of institutional control.

[Autigers71 0]

A very good article from Greg Doyel

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/19638878/theres-no-fixing-horrid-past-at-penn-state-but-ncaas-harsh-penalty-fits-the-crimes

For 45 glorious minutes on Monday morning, Mark Emmert spoke for most of us. He spoke for the innocent victims of serial pedophile Jerry Sandusky and the stunned onlookers who wondered why Penn State left him alone. He didn't speak for Penn State fans, but he spoke to them when he denounced the "hero worship" that created the culture that empowered Joe Paterno and spawned Sandusky's free reign from 2001-11.

Emmert was the hand of vengeance we've all wanted to swing at Penn State -- to stick up for the innocent victims of Sandusky, and to punish the evil cowards who covered for him.

Emmert swung that hand with fury, yet compassion. The NCAA thrashed Penn State football to within an inch of its life, crushing the football program but not the school or surrounding community. He said everything you wanted him to say, and everything I didn't want him to say -- but he said it so powerfully, so unsparingly, that he convinced me I'd been wrong when I wrote that the NCAA had no business judging Penn State.

Shame on me for writing this in November, and this in June.

Bravo to Mark Emmert for saying this. He spoke for you, me and everyone out there who was horrified, repulsed and ultimately furious with a school that would allow a child predator to run free because the apprehension of Jerry Sandusky -- regardless of how many boys it would have protected -- might have damaged its football team and coach.

The NCAA hit Penn State so hard that it should sink to the bottom of the Big Ten, yet hit it so intelligently that Penn State will have no choice to but sink anyway. The school can't make like Tulane basketball in 1985, when the Green Wave were caught up in a point-shaving scandal and simply did away with basketball for a few years. Penn State won't have that luxury, because the school has been fined $60 million -- and it needs football to pay that fine.

Penn State football will lose games but make money, which is the best possible result. The local community needs Penn State football, needs it more than Dallas needed SMU in 1987 or more, really, than just about any small college town needs its big college football program. State College, Pa., would have been devastated by the death penalty. Emmert was aware of that when he said the NCAA considered but rejected that sanction because it "would bring unintended harm to many that had nothing to do with this case."

Current Penn State football players and recruits will feel "unintended harm," but they have an out. They can leave and play immediately elsewhere, or they can stay at Penn State on scholarship -- whether they keep playing or not.

Meanwhile, Penn State fans will still come to games, still buy merchandise, still pump money like coal into that furnace. But the money will not be used toward better facilities, more leather chairs in the locker room, more flat-screen televisions in the player lounge. The money will be used to support the fight against child abuse, and to support its victims.

The NCAA did well here, better than any of us could have imagined. This is not a good day, so don't misread that. This is not a day to celebrate, although as in all things on this day, Mark Emmert said it better than I could -- so take it from him:

"I want to be very clear," he said, "there is nothing in this situation for anyone to feel good about."

Then he thought about the victims, many of whom were victimized after Penn State knew Sandusky was out there.

"What predicament did they find themselves in?" Emmert wondered. "What circumstances did they have to suffer through?"

Chilling words, but the right thing to say. Emmert devoted as much time as he could, in this press conference about Penn State and the NCAA, to remember the victims. Over and over he returned to them, to their families, to their suffering. So did Oregon State president Ed Ray, chair of the NCAA's Executive Committee that empowered Emmert to streamline the process and sanction Penn State swiftly.

Ray spoke of the "conspiracy of silence at the highest levels" and the "leadership failures at Penn State" and then raised his voice -- literally, he got louder -- when he sent the following warning to everyone else under the NCAA's watch:

"This should serve as a stark wake-up call to everyone involved in college sports that our first responsibility," Ray said, "is to adhere to the fundamental values of respect, honesty, responsibility."

I can't speak for anyone else, but Monday was damn sure a wake-up call to me. For months I've argued that this wasn't an NCAA issue, that Penn State hadn't cheated, that it was up to the criminal and civil courts to judge the school. I argued, to my utter shame, that the NCAA didn't have "jurisdiction."

And that's still how I felt Monday at 8:30 a.m. I started to feel nauseated. This was going to be bad. The NCAA was about to go where it had no business going. Those were my thoughts.

A live shot from the room where Emmert would speak was available online at 8:55 a.m., and now my heart was pounding. I was scared -- scared for Penn State, I guess.

Then Ed Ray spoke about "leadership failures" and the core NCAA values of responsibility. And Emmert started to speak, saying that the NCAA was about to demonstrate to Penn State and the world that "football [should] never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people."

Then Emmert started to outline the sanctions, separating them with a single word that sounded like the pounding of the gavel. He was saying words with numeric meaning, but all I could hear was the word guilty.

First, Penn State is fined $60 million.

Second, no bowl games for four years.

Third, massive scholarship reductions.

Fourth, the school vacates all wins from 1998 to 2011. Paterno is no longer the winningest coach in Division I history. Too bad he's not alive to see it.

By now my nausea and accelerated heart rate had been replaced by goose bumps. This has not been a good story and Monday morning was not a good moment, but it was a meaningful point in time, one of the first times the NCAA has stared so unflinchingly into the abyss of college athletics and said, "We're not scared of you."

This was fearless leadership, the kind we've always wanted from the NCAA -- and the kind that could have saved so many boys from an evil man named Jerry Sandusky.

[collector527 0]

Regardless about how anyone feels about what happen, the ruling is out and I must say Penn State football is dead. Period.  They were not gonna win anything important with the teams they had to play anyway but now it will be so hard on them to even be competetive.  They must try though.  Penn State is gonna suffer this ruling for the next 10 years probably but they have to let the team keep going. If they do not play for a few years then it will be even harder to get back to a winning program. Plus the players are not at fault here and they are the ones that wil be hit hardest by this.  Yes many will leave but for the ones who stay they need to know that there will be football and they deserve that.  I feel bad for them and the new coaching staff. People need to remember that there are many INNOCENT people affected by this as well. As I have said in another post, I do not like STate much but in this case I am rooting for those players who stick it out and try to rebuild what was lost.

[yeaauburn 21]

Quite simply, one of the most appalling academic institutional tragedies in American history.

[telling tiger 156]

Desmond Howard had some comments earlier that I really agreed with, "The child victims didn't have a choice, the adults did. The players now have a choice, they can stay and play for PSU or they can transfer to another school."

I do sympathize with the players now there and any team involved person not involved in these crimes. Ask any family member of a criminal and I'm sure they feel like they have been punished too. In those cases just like now, the only recourse is to reset your life and assure that it is led with integrity.

This program operated for a long time, while having knowledge of this and doing nothing about this.

Often many people pay for the actions of a few.

[PastorChris 0]

I am a bit surprised by so many who are passionately arguing that the NCAA overstepped its authority by getting involved in this matter and handing down so harsh a penalty.

It sounds like the basic reasoning for this position is that the problem is primarily a legal matter and should be punished by the legal process; that the NCAA is only for policing the competitive aspects of sports.

But the relationship between legal matters and athletics have always been intertwined. Every coach who is worth anything will suspend players who break the law. We fans even expect that of our coaches even though those legal troubles do not directly affect a young man's ability to play football. We encourage coaches to do this because we realize that a coach's job is not merely to win games but also to build character in young men and represent our institutions well.

Why should we be surprised that the athletic body that rules over and governs our colleges and universities has the same moral expectations of our schools and their administrations?

I, for one, am very thankful that the NCAA would make such a bold statement decrying the god that college football has become and acted so resolutely in punishing the inaction of the PSU administration in their effort to protect their god at the expense of Sandusky's victims.

[Guest jrljr]

As  someone who had their innocence ripped away at 8 years old, NO punishment is enough for anyone who assisted in this cover up! Its too bad Joe got to die and doesnt have to face the public ridicule he deserves. As for Sandusky, I pray they put him in General Population so he can get a taste of his own medicine before they shank him. Pedophiles/Rapists get no mercy here.

[msg6367 1]

I am a bit surprised by so many who are passionately arguing that the NCAA overstepped its authority by getting involved in this matter and handing down so harsh a penalty.

It sounds like the basic reasoning for this position is that the problem is primarily a legal matter and should be punished by the legal process; that the NCAA is only for policing the competitive aspects of sports.

But the relationship between legal matters and athletics have always been intertwined. Every coach who is worth anything will suspend players who break the law. We fans even expect that of our coaches even though those legal troubles do not directly affect a young man's ability to play football. We encourage coaches to do this because we realize that a coach's job is not merely to win games but also to build character in young men and represent our institutions well.

Why should we be surprised that the athletic body that rules over and governs our colleges and universities has the same moral expectations of our schools and their administrations?

I, for one, am very thankful that the NCAA would make such a bold statement decrying the god that college football has become and acted so resolutely in punishing the inaction of the PSU administration in their effort to protect their god at the expense of Sandusky's victims.

Do you think the NCAA should get involved everytime a student breaks the law and is not immediately suspended by the Coach??? That gives the NCAA way too much power. 

As I mentioned earlier, these accessories (all of them) should be charged through are legal system and if found guilty go to prison.  Have any been charged yet?

[AU64 10,122]

The NCAA is now the most powerful organization in the nation. 

It is not limited by "due process", it can operate in any state of the union, it can ignore state legislatures and university Boards of Trustees and it can assess huge fines/penalties with no  legal authority to do so.    It has already coerced a number of schools into abandoning their traditional mascots under threat of financial penalty.  What's next?

[bird36 5]

If one of several people high up in the PSU institution had done the right thing 14 years ago many, many, children would not have been abused.  This is the definition of lack of institutional control. 

The NCAA gave PSU the highest consequence on the table (most admit the death penalty is no longer on the table.)

PSU will not be good until the 2020's. 

[Tiger n Miami AU83 25]

The NCAA is now the most powerful organization in the nation. 

It is not limited by "due process", it can operate in any state of the union, it can ignore state legislatures and university Boards of Trustees and it can assess huge fines/penalties with no  legal authority to do so.    It has already coerced a number of schools into abandoning their traditional mascots under threat of financial penalty.   What's next?

Not sure about most powerful, but I agree with the problems of their actions today. The type of actions they have taken are massive and monumental. Hundreds of millions of dollars unilaterally sequestered by a single man without due process, along with the lives affected (not just players but all those connected with all sports at PSU which football directly funds and supports).

Lets face it, the massive actions taken today are in large part predicated upon everything being factual and correct in a report by a few individuals that have no authority and are not part of any court or body of law. Just a few people hired to write a report about the matter at hand.

I just do not like the precedent set. Maybe everything in the Freeh report is 100% correct, but I do not care (because I do not care about PSU at all one way or the other). What I do not like is the unilateral arbitrary actions the NCAA has taken based off a report that has not even been properly vetted. Not too mention it is even questionable if this is within the realm of the NCAA's purpose as an institution. I can kinda see both sides of that one. I think trying to say PSU gained an advantage by staying the same and not taking a PR hit years ago is REALLY stretching it. You can say the NCAA has as its purpose, the task of enforcing lawful and moral behavior on its memeber institutions, but that can create problems and boundary issues as well.

[keesler 5,928]

The NCAA is now the most powerful organization in the nation. 

It is not limited by "due process", it can operate in any state of the union, it can ignore state legislatures and university Boards of Trustees and it can assess huge fines/penalties with no  legal authority to do so.    It has already coerced a number of schools into abandoning their traditional mascots under threat of financial penalty.   What's next?

Good Night!  When you put it that way, it makes my skin crawl.  

[BirdofPrey76 0]

Going to take a long time before PSU is a viable football power again.......and RIGHTFULLY SO!

We might not see it in our lifetimes.

[telling tiger 156]

Pete Rose and major league baseball.

Michael Jordan and the NBA.

New Orleans Saints and the injury for pay scandal.

These are just three examples of extraordinary action by sports leagues or the presidents thereof. At no time has the MLB or NBA come close to taking the same action again in a situtaion that hasn't warranted it.

The overstatement of the powers of the NCAA is complete. PSU was a member, PSU AGREED to the penalty, a little fact not acknowledged.

Penn State could've said, "oh heck no, we will fight this all the way to the US Supreme Court." They didn't. you know why?

They were guilty.

[rockfordpi 91]

I am a bit surprised by so many who are passionately arguing that the NCAA overstepped its authority by getting involved in this matter and handing down so harsh a penalty.

It sounds like the basic reasoning for this position is that the problem is primarily a legal matter and should be punished by the legal process; that the NCAA is only for policing the competitive aspects of sports.

But the relationship between legal matters and athletics have always been intertwined. Every coach who is worth anything will suspend players who break the law. We fans even expect that of our coaches even though those legal troubles do not directly affect a young man's ability to play football. We encourage coaches to do this because we realize that a coach's job is not merely to win games but also to build character in young men and represent our institutions well.

Why should we be surprised that the athletic body that rules over and governs our colleges and universities has the same moral expectations of our schools and their administrations?

I, for one, am very thankful that the NCAA would make such a bold statement decrying the god that college football has become and acted so resolutely in punishing the inaction of the PSU administration in their effort to protect their god at the expense of Sandusky's victims.

IMO, the NCAA is not equipped to punish people, institutions, and whole states for crimes, at least not under the principles on which this country was founded.

What if this had been an issue of Drugs or an issue of these people selling unlicensed securities or if they were stealing money from the college?

Should the NCAA also be involved and just hand down lesser penalties for the less egregious crimes? If not, WHERE do we draw the line and say this crime is not sufficiently bad for the NCAA to become involved.

Other than Sandusky, NOBODY has been convicted of any crime. In the future, they may very well be, but they will have their day in court first.

[rockfordpi 91]

Pete Rose and major league baseball.

Michael Jordan and the NBA.

New Orleans Saints and the injury for pay scandal.

These are just three examples of extraordinary action by sports leagues or the presidents thereof. At no time has the MLB or NBA come close to taking the same action again in a situtaion that hasn't warranted it.

The overstatement of the powers of the NCAA is complete. PSU was a member, PSU AGREED to the penalty, a little fact not acknowledged.

Penn State could've said, "oh heck no, we will fight this all the way to the US Supreme Court." They didn't. you know why?

They were guilty.

The difference being, all the examples you give, to some degree, involved the playing of the game or a high profile player.

In this case, the NCAA jumped into what was a criminal/moral issue unrelated to the sport itself.

[telling tiger 156]

I'm thinking those coaches,showers and administrators are well connected to either the team, sport or school that those items are attached to.

Not trying to draw parallels to playing the game, but controls they are subjected to by the league/associations they belong to. PSU deserves every moment of everything it has been given. Plus.

All this theoretical digging into, well if it was drugs, gambling, blah,blah,blah, is meaningless. It was about the issue it was about. The lack of control exercised by the university over a sexual predator that the university had knowledge of, employed and allowed to use its' facilities.  Had I been the parent of one of those children, they would be scavenging for remains in the smoldering ashes.

Ahh poor PSU my arse, become solid citizens and pay for what you allowed to be done. It's over anyway. They've agreed to it, because they were guilty. Finis.

[rockfordpi 91]

Duplicate post. My Bad.

[rockfordpi 91]

I'm thinking those coaches,showers and administrators are well connected to either the team, sport or school that those items are attached to.

Not trying to draw parallels to playing the game, but controls they are subjected to by the league/associations they belong to. PSU deserves every moment of everything it has been given. Plus.

All this theoretical digging into, well if it was drugs, gambling, blah,blah,blah, is meaningless. It was about the issue it was about. The lack of control exercised by the university over a sexual predator that the university had knowledge of, employed and allowed to use its' facilities.  Had I been the parent of one of those children, they would be scavenging for remains in the smoldering ashes.

Ahh poor PSU my arse, become solid citizens and pay for what you allowed to be done. It's over anyway. They've agreed to it, because they were guilty. Finis.

And I would not fault you or  the families you one bit. If those guys covered it up and a family sued them and got 1 billion, I would be happy for them, if that lawsuit caused  the school to file bankruptcy and cease to exist, I would say, tough luck for them, they got what they deserved.

My only question is what is the proper role of the NCAA in this issue. They are not the victim and they are not the legal system.

Granted, PSU admitted and accepted the punishment, but I don't think they really had a choice.

[cooltigger21 0]

I'm thinking those coaches,showers and administrators are well connected to either the team, sport or school that those items are attached to.

Not trying to draw parallels to playing the game, but controls they are subjected to by the league/associations they belong to. PSU deserves every moment of everything it has been given. Plus.

All this theoretical digging into, well if it was drugs, gambling, blah,blah,blah, is meaningless. It was about the issue it was about. The lack of control exercised by the university over a sexual predator that the university had knowledge of, employed and allowed to use its' facilities.  Had I been the parent of one of those children, they would be scavenging for remains in the smoldering ashes.

Ahh poor PSU my arse, become solid citizens and pay for what you allowed to be done. It's over anyway. They've agreed to it, because they were guilty. Finis.

Ok but where does the NCAA draw the line. How far does their jusridiction reach? How much does an institution have to go in policing it's players and coaches to keep the NCAA at bay. It seems to me they can just intject themselves into any situation they please.

[telling tiger 156]

If the mighty Joepa were still alive, he would and should be facing criminal charges. If PSU thinks this is a scandal now, he should have lived to show them what a scandal really is. He too, would have deserved every moment of it.

The NCAA accepted with PSUs blessing the Freeh report findings. Just as easily PSU could have very gratefully done that instead of letting the NCAA conduct their own investigation. THEY EXERCISED THAT CHOICE.

All this handwringing over the reach of the NCAA could actually have been very restrained as compared to what they might have found on their own given time. It isn't as cut and dry as the previously stated panic over the unbridled power of the NCAA. Laughable. If they were to reach like that, en masse the major colleges would withdraw and leave them with nothing to oversee. We are to assume they wear jackboots too? Please. Internet panic is so much fun.

[rockfordpi 91]

I'm thinking those coaches,showers and administrators are well connected to either the team, sport or school that those items are attached to.

Not trying to draw parallels to playing the game, but controls they are subjected to by the league/associations they belong to. PSU deserves every moment of everything it has been given. Plus.

All this theoretical digging into, well if it was drugs, gambling, blah,blah,blah, is meaningless. It was about the issue it was about. The lack of control exercised by the university over a sexual predator that the university had knowledge of, employed and allowed to use its' facilities.  Had I been the parent of one of those children, they would be scavenging for remains in the smoldering ashes.

Ahh poor PSU my arse, become solid citizens and pay for what you allowed to be done. It's over anyway. They've agreed to it, because they were guilty. Finis.

Ok but where does the NCAA draw the line. How far does their jusridiction reach? How much does an institution have to go in policing it's players and coaches to keep the NCAA at bay. It seems to me they can just intject themselves into any situation they please.

Chasing a rabbit here, but on the topic of the NCAA over-stepping its bounds. Had I been Cecil Newton, I would have sued the NCAA for having me banned from my Son's games for simply exercising freedom of speech. All he allegedy did was have a conversation, albeit and unwise one, about something and this conversation occured before he or his Son were covered by NCAA rules.

He was banned from his Son's games by the NCAA for simply asking a question.

[PastorChris 0]

I am a bit surprised by so many who are passionately arguing that the NCAA overstepped its authority by getting involved in this matter and handing down so harsh a penalty.

It sounds like the basic reasoning for this position is that the problem is primarily a legal matter and should be punished by the legal process; that the NCAA is only for policing the competitive aspects of sports.

But the relationship between legal matters and athletics have always been intertwined. Every coach who is worth anything will suspend players who break the law. We fans even expect that of our coaches even though those legal troubles do not directly affect a young man's ability to play football. We encourage coaches to do this because we realize that a coach's job is not merely to win games but also to build character in young men and represent our institutions well.

Why should we be surprised that the athletic body that rules over and governs our colleges and universities has the same moral expectations of our schools and their administrations?

I, for one, am very thankful that the NCAA would make such a bold statement decrying the god that college football has become and acted so resolutely in punishing the inaction of the PSU administration in their effort to protect their god at the expense of Sandusky's victims.

IMO, the NCAA is not equipped to punish people, institutions, and whole states for crimes, at least not under the principles on which this country was founded.

What if this had been an issue of Drugs or an issue of these people selling unlicensed securities or if they were stealing money from the college?

Should the NCAA also be involved and just hand down lesser penalties for the less egregious crimes? If not, WHERE do we draw the line and say this crime is not sufficiently bad for the NCAA to become involved.

Other than Sandusky, NOBODY has been convicted of any crime. In the future, they may very well be, but they will have their day in court first.

Again, this is just my opinion, but I believe that the NCAA certainly has the right to inflict punishment on institutions that violate their rules and bylaws. Now this particular problem at PSU may not be spelled out specifically in the NCAA bylaws (I am in NO way an expert in what the bylaws are), but surely we can all agree that the coverup by the PSU administration for MANY years violates ANY ethical standard that the NCAA has, much less the ethical standard of basic human decency.

The point is not that the NCAA is trying to become an entity for legal punishment. The point is that the idolatry of football and the hero worship of Paterno contributed directly to the coverup of a horrific crime which testifies to the true deficiency of character in Paterno and the rest of the administration at PSU regardless of what the Paterno family would like us to believe.

Now, these character deficiencies and types of coverup are not the standard fare for NCAA intervention, and "no" I cannot clearly define where the line is, but surely we can agree that the line was crossed in this case, can't we?

Where the NCAA goes from here is certainly a slippery slope, but if the NCAA had not acted in this situation, they would have ZERO moral integrity to ever act again in significantly lesser cases of mere improper benefits being paid to recruits.

Does the NCAA have the right to act arbitrarily and without due process? Of course not. But they did not act arbitrarily or without due process this time.

Emmert himself stated that this is an EXTREME case that requires an EXTREME and unique response.

I happen to agree with him.

[Spencer 0]

Again, this is just my opinion, but I believe that the NCAA certainly has the right to inflict punishment on institutions that violate their rules and bylaws. Now this particular problem at PSU may not be spelled out specifically in the NCAA bylaws (I am in NO way an expert in what the bylaws are), but surely we can all agree that the coverup by the PSU administration for MANY years violates ANY ethical standard that the NCAA has, much less the ethical standard of basic human decency.

The point is not that the NCAA is trying to become an entity for legal punishment. The point is that the idolatry of football and the hero worship of Paterno contributed directly to the coverup of a horrific crime which testifies to the true deficiency of character in Paterno and the rest of the administration at PSU regardless of what the Paterno family would like us to believe.

Now, these character deficiencies and types of coverup are not the standard fare for NCAA intervention, and "no" I cannot clearly define where the line is, but surely we can agree that the line was crossed in this case, can't we?

Where the NCAA goes from here is certainly a slippery slope, but if the NCAA had not acted in this situation, they would have ZERO moral integrity to ever act again in significantly lesser cases of mere improper benefits being paid to recruits.

Does the NCAA have the right to act arbitrarily and without due process? Of course not. But they did not act arbitrarily or without due process this time.

Emmert himself stated that this is an EXTREME case that requires an EXTREME and unique response.

I happen to agree with him.

I agree with pretty much everything said here... The NCAA had no choice but to do something. It was a harsh penalty, and one that will take over a decade to overcome more than likely. But it was a harsh, deep, dark cover up.

[Tiger n Miami AU83 25]

Anyone want to take a stab at what these penalties actually accomplish?