2013 3* DT Parker Cothren (Penn State signee)

[au701948 998]

For sure we are behind where we will hopefully find ourself in the recruiting arena this year with all our changes. However, I am hopeful as I am sure all of my fellow posters are on here that next year we again find ourselves recruiting at the highest levels for the players that Auburn needs to fit our type of game.

We, as a fan base, must quit "cold turkey" from thinking that we must "recruit" or "manage" our AU program in the image of another program. If we as a fan base can mature and grow out of our own self-imposed "little sister" mindset, then we can truly enjoy our successes for ourselves.

I apologize the the Mods if this comment is in the wrong place but I just had to put my thoughts in print today. Thanks.

[im4au 44]

IMHO coaches are better talent evaluators than recruiting services. Recruiting services run as a pack, but good coaches form their own opinions based on watching kids perform. We signed a 3-star quarterback last year with a scholly offer from Oregon and Chip Kelly - he's worked out pretty well. Our 5-star all-everything guy from Kentucky is now a tight end at a lower tier program. There is an unassigned star for academics and character that we've overlooked sometimes in the past.

[Auburn20041345162806 0]

I believe he's ranked as an oline guy so I don't see a reason not to be interested, anytime u got a guy good enough to play either that's a solid reason to recruit hm. I enjoy five stars and hype but we were one of the winningest programs in the country for a decade while rarely having a five star. While I am not tossing the old staff under the bus you cant just try to sign five stars. you sign the players that fit what you need and then you coach them up, we seem to have forgotten that as a fan base. tubbs was stellar at picking up linemen off basketball courts that are still in the nfl right now so I'm not too concerned if our coaches want a guy that some analyst hasn't fallen in love with

[GTNupe11 2,033]

SMH...Who cares about a rank. What you all are saying is the same thing some folks might have thought about JJ Watt. All I can say is, I played against the cat in HS and he was no slouch then, despite his 2 star rating.

[MontanaAubie 0]

Damion Square, Chance Warmack, Kellen Williams, Anthony Steen, Ryan Kelley, Vinney Sunseri, Brandon Ivory, Austin Shepherd, Phillip Ely are all 3 stars on the two deep chart at Alabama. 4 of them are starters. Saban doesn't take too many 3 stars at the skill positions (rb, wr, cb) but he likes to take a couple of big, strong, smart hard workers and put a couple in every class. He knows these guys will give it their all...and the smartest thing he does is put them ahead of more talented players that don't work as hard so that everyone knows to make it on the field you have to work as hard as these guys. Saban is not all 4 and 5 star players.

[AUIH1 1,515]

IMHO coaches are better talent evaluators than recruiting services. Recruiting services run as a pack, but good coaches form their own opinions based on watching kids perform. We signed a 3-star quarterback last year with a scholly offer from Oregon and Chip Kelly - he's worked out pretty well. Our 5-star all-everything guy from Kentucky is now a tight end at a lower tier program. There is an unassigned star for academics and character that we've overlooked sometimes in the past.

Our last coaching staff was either piss poor in the art of talent evaluation or piss poor coaches. Possibly both. Also, you are incorrect about our signing the criminal from Kentucky. By the time he signed with AU most folks had him downgraded to a 3 star.

[ellitor 33,093]

Damion Square, Chance Warmack, Kellen Williams, Anthony Steen, Ryan Kelley, Vinney Sunseri, Brandon Ivory, Austin Shepherd, Phillip Ely are all 3 stars on the two deep chart at Alabama. 4 of them are starters. Saban doesn't take too many 3 stars at the skill positions (rb, wr, cb) but he likes to take a couple of big, strong, smart hard workers and put a couple in every class. He knows these guys will give it their all...and the smartest thing he does is put them ahead of more talented players that don't work as hard so that everyone knows to make it on the field you have to work as hard as these guys. Saban is not all 4 and 5 star players.

Square was a 4 star but your point remains valid.

[MontanaAubie 0]

Rivals has Square as a 3 star class of 2008....but some of the other recruiting services may have him as a 4 star. So you are probably right.

RB, CB, and WR's I believe are the easiest to scout. QB's are the hardest, followed by OL, DL, TE, LB, and S in that order IMO.

[ellitor 33,093]

Rivals has Square as a 3 star class of 2008....but some of the other recruiting services may have him as a 4 star. So you are probably right.

RB, CB, and WR's I believe are the easiest to scout. QB's are the hardest, followed by OL, DL, TE, LB, and S in that order IMO.

I go by the 247 composite rankings which gives equal weight to all the sites rankings.

[Johndunc 33]

Demarcus Ware, Troy University was a 3 star no SEC team wanted.. Dallas Cowboys drafted, All Pro..

[Wareagletd 0]

Demarcus Ware, Troy University was a 3 star no SEC team wanted.. Dallas Cowboys drafted, All Pro..

Exception. Not the rule.

[wareaglexx 34]

He seems solid to me. If he has the right attitude he might be a good one. I'm tired of prima donnas.

I agree..

1 Attitude

2. Work Ethic

3. Determination

If he has those 3 things, this coaching staff will make him look like a 5 * before all is said and done... This goes for any other 3 * players as well.. If a 5 * player doesn't have any of the above three things then tell em to hit the road...

[Johndunc 33]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

[leglessdan 1,934]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Heck yeah! The majority of OL in the NFL were 3* in High School.

[jacksrc 4]

Rivals has Square as a 3 star class of 2008....but some of the other recruiting services may have him as a 4 star. So you are probably right.

RB, CB, and WR's I believe are the easiest to scout. QB's are the hardest, followed by OL, DL, TE, LB, and S in that order IMO.

According to Pete Carroll, CB is the hardest position to evaluate because HS film usually follows the ball. CBs in college are usually offensive skill players in HS. This was all in the book Meat Market. If you haven't read it E, I think you would enjoy it. It follows the "recruiting season" of Ole Miss when Coach O was there. I believe it was written by a former ESPN guy who is with CBS now.

[TexasTiger 12,862]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Heck yeah! The majority of OL in the NFL were 3* in High School.

I don't know about the majority, but you don't have to look to far to find this former 2 star projected in the first round:

http://sdg.scout.com/a.z?s=102&p=8&c=1&nid=3818123

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1673079

[ellitor 33,093]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Heck yeah! The majority of OL in the NFL were 3* in High School.

Raw numbers may make it look like that but 4 and 5* recruits have a much higher ratio of making ther leagus than 2 and 3 * recruits.

[Dunndone414 469]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Heck yeah! The majority of OL in the NFL were 3* in High School.

There should be, there are far more 2* and 3* than there are 4* and 5*'s! The whole "We need to recruit 3* guys instead of 5* guys" line of thinking is so frustrating. Sure some 5* players don't pan out, and some 3* players do, but the percentage of 5* players that make it to an All-SEC or All-American status is much higher.

[NoALtiger 3,860]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Heck yeah! The majority of OL in the NFL were 3* in High School.

There should be, there are far more 2* and 3* than there are 4* and 5*'s! The whole "We need to recruit 3* guys instead of 5* guys" line of thinking is so frustrating. Sure some 5* players don't pan out, and some 3* players do, but the percentage of 5* players that make it to an All-SEC or All-American status is much higher.

There is often a discussion on this topic during recruiting season and actually I could believe both sides. My question for all is, does anyone know where to find any factual information to back up either claim?

[alexava 6,973]

arent there a much smaller amount of 5 star guys. then you take injuries, and other setbacks and then the ratio shrinks more. there almost has to be a larger # of 3 stars in the nfl.

[Mikey 16,597]

It all depends on the recruiter's ability to judge talent. Spencer Johnson, D. Thomas, Ben Grubbs and so forth are as good at their positions as Auburn has had.

Of course, if we say that the talent evaluating ability of the coaches is more important, recruiting services and geeks that hang on their every quiver would soon fade into oblivion.

Or then we could quote Pat Dye, from about 1988; "There are enough players out there for everybody. What you do with 'em after you get 'em is more important than who you get." These last two years should have made that painfully obvious to any Auburn fan.

[IronMan70 3,277]

I too don't think it is an either or situation, high star ratings v lower star ratings. I also don't think you can get locked into one line of thinking when it comes to recruiting. You need top talent but you also have to look for those gems that are rated lower. But, you must also have the coaching to go with it no matter who you recruit. Someone asked where there was some factual information for one side or the other. The best place to look is the starting lineups in the NFL.

Since most of the small schools are getting very few 4* and 5* players out of HS, most NFL players from those smaller schools were HS 3*s or even less. Here are the starters from smaller programs on just two NFL teams and it's fair to assume that these players were missed by the larger D-1 programs. No, I did not take the time to look up all their HS rankings and yes there are exceptions to every rule, but I think you get the idea.

Washington Redskins starters: 7 of 22 from small schools.

LG Kory Lichtensteiger Bowling Green

WR Pierre Garçon Mount Union

FB Darrel Young Villanova

RB Alfred Morris Florida Atlantic

DE Stephen Bowen Hofstra

ILB London Fletcher John Carroll

SS Reed Doughty Northern Colorado.

NY Giants starters: 8 of 22 from small schools.

WR Victor Cruz Massachusetts

LT Will Beatty Connecticut

LG Kevin Boothe Cornell

RB Ahmad Bradshaw Marshall

LDT Linval Joseph East Carolina

RDE Jason Pierre-Paul South Florida

MLB Chase Blackburn Akron

WLB Michael Boley Southern Miss

[Mikey 16,597]

I too dont think it is an either or situation, high star ratings v lower star ratings. I also dont think you can get locked into one line of thinking when it comes to recruiting. You need top talent but you also have to look for those gems that are rated lower. But, you must have the coaching to go with it. Someone asked where there was some factual information for one side or the other. The best place to look is the starting lineups in the NFL.

Since most of the small schools are getting very few 4* and 5* players out of HS, most NFL players from the smaller schools were 3*s or even less from HS. Here are the starters from smaller programs on just two NFL teams and it's fair to assume that these players were missed by the larger D-1 programs. No, I did not take the time to look up all their HS rankings and there are exceptions to every rule, but I think you get the idea.

Washington Redskins: 7 of 22

LG Kory Lichtensteiger Bowling Green

WR Pierre Garçon Mount Union

FB Darrel Young Villanova

RB Alfred Morris Florida Atlantic

DE Stephen Bowen Hofstra

ILB London Fletcher John Carroll

SS Reed Doughty Northern Colorado.

NY Giants: 8 of 22

WR Victor Cruz Massachusetts

LT Will Beatty Connecticut

LG Kevin Boothe Cornell

RB Ahmad Bradshaw Marshall

LDT Linval Joseph East Carolina

RDE Jason Pierre-Paul South Florida

MLB Chase Blackburn Akron

WLB Michael Boley Southern Miss

Ah, hard information. That's a commodity that is becoming scarce on this forum!

[autan 737]

Nobody is saying all 3* recruits are better than 5*, but some are believe it or not. Best QB in NCAA is a freshman 3*. Trick is to find out which ones are better. Previous staff couldn't do it. Some people on this forum have not learned a lesson about putting recruiting in the proper perspective. Our previous staff put together 3 straight Top 5, Top 10 recruiting classes and would no doubt have had a 4th had they been retained. And guess what - our 2013 team would probably be 3-9 or 2-10 if Chiziks guys were still around. We have to coach the players and they have to be coachable. Some guys have all the talent in the world but just don't need to be at Auburn, wrong fit. We are fortunate to have the best staff ever assembled at AU in my opinion. Good recruiters, but Great coaches. And I for one trust their evaluations completely, although I reserve the right to personal opinions .

[IronMan70 3,277]

There seem to be a lot of exceptions playing pro football these days!

Not only playing but starting.