2013 3* DT Parker Cothren (Penn State signee)

[Johndunc 33]

YES THEY CAN !!!!!

[IronMan70 3,277]

Sure you can name individual exceptions. However, the percentage of four and five star players that excel in college is always higher than the percentage of two and three stars that excel.

Exactly. If AU cannot recruit at the same level as spuat, LSU, uga, UF, USCe and Texas A&M then we are destined to be less than average because there is NO way our coaching staff is good enough to coach up less talented players to compete with the teams I referenced.

wde

That particular issue wasn't a problem with the last staff and I am sure it wont be a problem with this staff. This year will be the anomaly for the obvious reasons but it appears even this year, Gus and staff will finish strong.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Mikey, you just spouted off my favorite silly argument! Of course the hit rate is higher for four and five star kids! Most of them also receive multiple offers from major program. Meaning? The coaches have evaluated them at the proper level to contribute.

There are far more two and three star players. Given that fact, you cannot have a similar success rate. It's statistically impossible (since there are a finite number of starting spots and even fewer all-conference slots). So, at best, the "percentage of success" argument is simply stating the obvious.

The proper comparison is success rate for two and three star players that were also offered by major programs. That trims the group of players considerably and gets to a relevant group. If you do that, I wouldn't be surprised if the success rate is comparable for two, three, four, or five star players... all of whom have been evaluated by their coaches as capable of contributing.

[AUIH1 1,515]

Sure you can name individual exceptions. However, the percentage of four and five star players that excel in college is always higher than the percentage of two and three stars that excel.

Exactly. If AU cannot recruit at the same level as spuat, LSU, uga, UF, USCe and Texas A&M then we are destined to be less than average because there is NO way our coaching staff is good enough to coach up less talented players to compete with the teams I referenced.

wde

That particular issue wasn't a problem with the last staff and I am sure it wont be a problem with this staff. This year will be the anomaly for the obvious reasons but it appears even this year, Gus and staff will finish strong.

True, but we must have both coaching and recruiting. The last staff could hold its own recruiting, but were exposed as terrible coaches both on and off of the field. spuat, uga and lsu have all proven to have good coaches and recruiters over an extended period of time (minimum of 4 years). The jury is still out on uf and Texas A&M right now in the coaching department. Nonetheless, we have to match those guys in recruiting and coaching to be competitive.

wde

[ellitor 33,093]

Yet another of the hundreds of threads hijacked by the never ending stars ratings versus coaching debate. They are both equally important. PERIOD. Now back to Cothren. He is a hard worker and I would love to have him.

[IronMan70 3,277]

Sure you can name individual exceptions. However, the percentage of four and five star players that excel in college is always higher than the percentage of two and three stars that excel.

Exactly. If AU cannot recruit at the same level as spuat, LSU, uga, UF, USCe and Texas A&M then we are destined to be less than average because there is NO way our coaching staff is good enough to coach up less talented players to compete with the teams I referenced.

wde

That particular issue wasn't a problem with the last staff and I am sure it wont be a problem with this staff. This year will be the anomaly for the obvious reasons but it appears even this year, Gus and staff will finish strong.

True, but we must have both coaching and recruiting. The last staff could hold its own recruiting, but were exposed as terrible coaches both on and off of the field. spuat, uga and lsu have all proven to have good coaches and recruiters over an extended period of time (minimum of 4 years). The jury is still out on uf and Texas A&M right now in the coaching department. Nonetheless, we have to match those guys in recruiting and coaching to be competitive.

wde

Yes, I agree with coaching being very important too, in fact in my book the most important factor. But in your post that I responded to, you were talking about recruiting. That is why I used the words "particular issue" in my post. You mentioned coaching in that post but it was in the context of recruiting vs coaching when you stated "NO way our coaching staff is good enough to coach up less talented players to compete with the teams I referenced."

Coaching, recruiting, both important, yes.

[Mikey 16,599]

Mikey, you just spouted off my favorite silly argument! Of course the hit rate is higher for four and five star kids! Most of them also receive multiple offers from major program. Meaning? The coaches have evaluated them at the proper level to contribute.

There are far more two and three star players. Given that fact, you cannot have a similar success rate. It's statistically impossible (since there are a finite number of starting spots and even fewer all-conference slots). So, at best, the "percentage of success" argument is simply stating the obvious.

The proper comparison is success rate for two and three star players that were also offered by major programs. That trims the group of players considerably and gets to a relevant group. If you do that, I wouldn't be surprised if the success rate is comparable for two, three, four, or five star players... all of whom have been evaluated by their coaches as capable of contributing.

The question was something like: "Is it not just as good to sign two and three star players and coach them up?" The answer is an emphatic NO.

[autan 737]

I don't think anyone is saying that it's just as good to sign two and three star players like Vandy, but some two-star guys like Daren Bates and Zac Clayton or three-stars like Darvin Adams, Nick Fairly, or Johnny Manziel perform at a higher level in college than these recruiting gurus think possible. I trust our coaches to determine which one of the recruits have that kind of ability and potential. Some on this board apparently do not.

[autan 737]

Yet another of the hundreds of threads hijacked by the never ending stars ratings versus coaching debate. They are both equally important. PERIOD. Now back to Cothren. He is a hard worker and I would love to have him.

Couldn't agree more. Somehow, someway our staff needs to find a spot for him in this class and hardest part may be to convince PC that Auburn is the right place for him instead of PSU or UT. IMHO.

[Browning4AU 405]

Hazel Green HS, class of '03 right here!!!!!!!!

Sorry just had to throw it out there.

[NoALtiger 3,860]

Hazel Green HS, class of '03 right here!!!!!!!!

Sorry just had to throw it out there.

Maybe this is the year we sign a Greenie. Ha!

[ausburn 159]

Save the thread......

Yet another of the hundreds of threads hijacked by the never ending stars ratings versus coaching debate. They are both equally important. PERIOD. Now back to Cothren. He is a hard worker and I would love to have him.

I can not get a read on how much interest he has in AU.

[JCTIGER1 0]

Well, it's silly to think recruiting rankings dictate whether a guy has the potential to be a special player. A much better indication is the opinion of a proven staff. If the staff hasn't shown the ability to identify "diamonds in the rough," then yes, I think it's better to have higher rated players. If however, you have a staff with a track record of seeing talent, regardless of the star rating, and churning out good football players, then I'm more inclined to trust their eye over the star system.

The best examples that come to mind are Tuberville at Auburn and Beamer at VaTech. Both guys routinely took/take mid-level prospects and either (1) turned them into great players or (2) saw the ability that others couldn't (depends on how much credit you want to give the coaches). I mean, just off the top of my head, Ben Nowland, Ben Grubbs, Sen'Derrick Marks, etc. all came into Auburn as mid-level 3* players or lower. All of them left Auburn as NFL-ready players. It's a trust that develops over time. In a vaccuum, you'd rather have the higher rated guys, but when you're staff has shown a better eye for talent over time, you just want the guys your staff wants, regardless of the rating.

Well said!!

Just out of curiosity, who evaluates the players and rates them? College coaches? Former college coaches? Analysts? "Professionals"?

So back to my question, who evaluates the players and rates them, and why do they (evaluators) have so much credibility for some people to hang their hat on?

[Browning4AU 405]

Hazel Green HS, class of '03 right here!!!!!!!!

Sorry just had to throw it out there.

Maybe this is the year we sign a Greenie. Ha!

Now that's going back a ways

[ellitor 33,093]

Well, it's silly to think recruiting rankings dictate whether a guy has the potential to be a special player. A much better indication is the opinion of a proven staff. If the staff hasn't shown the ability to identify "diamonds in the rough," then yes, I think it's better to have higher rated players. If however, you have a staff with a track record of seeing talent, regardless of the star rating, and churning out good football players, then I'm more inclined to trust their eye over the star system.

The best examples that come to mind are Tuberville at Auburn and Beamer at VaTech. Both guys routinely took/take mid-level prospects and either (1) turned them into great players or (2) saw the ability that others couldn't (depends on how much credit you want to give the coaches). I mean, just off the top of my head, Ben Nowland, Ben Grubbs, Sen'Derrick Marks, etc. all came into Auburn as mid-level 3* players or lower. All of them left Auburn as NFL-ready players. It's a trust that develops over time. In a vaccuum, you'd rather have the higher rated guys, but when you're staff has shown a better eye for talent over time, you just want the guys your staff wants, regardless of the rating.

Well said!!

Just out of curiosity, who evaluates the players and rates them? College coaches? Former college coaches? Analysts? "Professionals"?

So back to my question, who evaluates the players and rates them, and why do they (evaluators) have so much credibility for some people to hang their hat on?

WOW! rehijecking an unhijacked thread. lol I don't know about 247, Rivals, and Scout but for ESPN that stuff is done bt Pro scouts, former players, and former coaches all at the college level or higher.... You guys can create a thread on stars versus coaches, evals, etc. Now back to Cothren. I hope we get him.

[ausburn 159]

I thought the TSA was to have someone on board to stop hijacking? See where Tennessee offered. Where is our Hazel Green connection for info?

[JCTIGER1 0]

I apologize for "hijacking" the thread, it was just on my mind and I wanted to know! I agree about Cothren too, we need hard working kids in our program!

[NoALtiger 3,860]

I thought the TSA was to have someone on board to stop hijacking? ;)/> See where Tennessee offered. Where is our Hazel Green connection for info?

Yes, enough of the fluff. Information please. Preferably by someone who knows something they didn't read off the Internet.

[ausburn 159]

I thought the TSA was to have someone on board to stop hijacking? ;)/> See where Tennessee offered. Where is our Hazel Green connection for info?

Yes, enough of the fluff. Information please. Preferably by someone who knows something they didn't read off the Internet.

Wait now..I was just reading your comments off the internet..... I think he sticks with Penn State, but I think I saw that on the internet.

[HGtiger8 0]

Looking like a no go on PC. Penn State looks like they have him locked up. As of now he will not be visiting AU next weekend.

[ellitor 33,093]

Looking like a no go on PC. Penn State looks like they have him locked up. As of now he will not be visiting AU next weekend.

Not downing you. Just curious where this is coming from?

[HGtiger8 0]

My younger brother goes to school with him and they are good friends. I am also good friends with his two older brothers.

[gilstein21 1]

just watched the video .... one thing that stood out to me is he has great tackling technique. He really explodes through what he is hitting and he wraps up. He's going to be a good player wherever he ends up.

[ellitor 33,093]

My younger brother goes to school with him and they are good friends. I am also good friends with his two older brothers.

Cool. Thanks for the info.

[JCTIGER1 0]

Kids pretty salty IMO. Hate it if we miss out on him, and I believe the only reason he was not already offered by other staff was because of the lack of stars. IMO perfect fit for the spur off the edge!!