What's keeping Auburn's Defense from being Elite?

[McLoofus 35,182]

Seems like we've been deficient in talent at LB & secondary players. I don't know why - LSU-FLA-UAT-UGA seem to get plenty of talent in those area's.

True, but we did sign a really strong DB class, a 5* LB and another LB who many think is an underrated 3* (and the best recruiter in the class). Not enough, but if we get Holland and McBryde and hold onto Bridges, then we're definitely trending upward. Also, Moncrief is looking like a stud and we should be able to move Holsey back to CB.

So... you're right. But hopefully we'll start catching up this season (...he says, after saying that every summer since '09).

[JFDTiger80 790]

We also have to consider how much more dynamic the offenses in the SEC are now compared to 5-10 years ago. I'm not so sure the 2004 defense wouldn't give up 400+ yards to some of the offenses around the league nowadays. With that I think our defense will be much improved this year with 4 star talent spread out pretty well across the starters and another year in CEJ's system.

These guys have all been ranked as 5 stars by one or more of the recruiting sites when they came on board:

Adams, Lawson, Daniels, Frost. This makes our talent seem even more impressive. Our Dbacks overall seem to be mostly 3 and 4 star kids while our LB's outside of Frost and Williams (5 star) are usually 4 star guys.

This all being said, our best defender last year and a 1st round draft pick, Ford was not a 4 or 5 star kid.

My thought is our kids have enough talent, they need to pick up the coaching better and play to their potential.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

The reason our defense has slacked off since Tubbs left is because Tubbs was not a good recruiter but was good at developing players. Chizik takes over and we put a premium on star searching rather than developing players. Not only did we not get stars under Chizik but we didn't develop players. Besides Corey Lemonier Nick Fairley and Dee Ford I can't think of any top players Chizik recruited/developed. I think NF was actually a Tubbs recruit out off high school and Dee took 4 years to develop.

I believe also that we will not statistically be as good as past years when we were a defensive team. But I do see us bringing in much better player that can actually play which will make for a better defense than the rubber band D Chizik played.

[WFE12 9,191]

man, if auburn could be like the miami teams of old with a completely dominant offense and defense......

[Dom1ni0n 51]

a.) The scheme and philosophy is still a work in progress with Johnson and co. I was never a fan of the Tampa-2, even during its heyday the Tony Dungee coaching era.

b.) Essentially it took the typical college kid's career for Chizik's methodologies to transform AU's traditionally stout and proud defenses to what has become traditionally underwhelming. Obviously, there were key areas last season where there was marked improvement from 2012, but there's still an uphill climb ahead overall for the D.

c.) While the linebacker and secondary play has drawn most of the criticism, I'm going to direct a few at the DTs. The defensive tone needs to be established for an entire game, and it starts up front. not just the 2nd half. More penetration into opponents' backfields will lead to more obvious passing situations early in the down and distance count. This should play right into the hands of the soon-to-be rangier and more physical secondary.

[Dom1ni0n 51]

man, if auburn could be like the miami teams of old with a completely dominant offense and defense......

If that happened, the other 13 league members would avidly petition for Auburn to be traded to the AFC South for the Jaguars.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,669]

man, if auburn could be like the miami teams of old with a completely dominant offense and defense......

If that happened, the other 13 league members would avidly petition for Auburn to be traded to the AFC South for the Jaguars.

Same that happened with the Elephants.

[WFE12 9,191]

man, if auburn could be like the miami teams of old with a completely dominant offense and defense......

If that happened, the other 13 league members would avidly petition for Auburn to be traded to the AFC South for the Jaguars.

Ha!..but really though who says that can't be auburn,it's possible and i hope to see it sooner than later

[BJ17 0]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

[AUbritt 611]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

If we play 15 games, I'd be happy with under 300 total points allowed (20 ppg). That would put us close to top ten, looking at last year's stats.

I think we can score three touchdowns on anyone (we averaged 39.5 ppg last season).

[caleb1633 1,418]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

You really think that with our offense we have to hold defenses to 13 points a game or less? I think we need to have more realistic expectations here.

[IronMan70 3,277]

Those looking to our offense for answers on the defense are looking down a rabbit hole. The answer lies in upgrading the talent level as well as building more depth in the back 7 (it's being done) and playing solid fundamentals. When games are on the line and poor tackling yields a 99 yard pass play or a 5 yard hitch that turns into a 45 yard gain, you need look no further. That has nothing to do with how good our offense is or how much better opposing offenses are now compared to 10 years ago.

The good news is we made marked improvement last year (redzone D, 3rd down D, scoring D, sacks, TFLs, better fundamentals) but it's just a start. We need to continue with that but take another big step in improvement this year too. With the upgrade in back 7 talent/depth in process I think the D will be better this year. So with that, taking the scoring D down from 24 points closer to 20 points (or less) is a very realistic goal. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Just a 20% improvement in our defense (very doable) when coupled with Gus's offense is going to make this '14 team very hard to beat.

[BJ17 0]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

You really think that with our offense we have to hold defenses to 13 points a game or less? I think we need to have more realistic expectations here.

Well if LSU and UAT can have stout defenses ever year than so can AU. It's not that unrealistic.

[AURex 1,998]

I like looking at stats. But the bottom line is, the only defensive statistic that means diddly squat is *scoring defense* just as the only offensive statistic that counts is *scoring offense*. Everything else is window dressing. If you can't score points on offense and stop teams from scoring on defense, that translates into losses.

That said, LSU plays solid defense against both traditional, spread, and up tempo offenses. It's partly recruiting (tall and athletic DBs), fast and sure-tackling LBs, and mobile DL with depth. The other part is scheming and play calling. Chavis does a really good job. Bama has had less success stopping up tempo teams because they rely too heavily on trying to do packages and confuse the offense, which doesn't work so well against up tempo teams that dictate. My impression is that Saban and company are working on alternatives for playing up tempo teams, so it may be even harder to score on them this year.

Auburn was 47th in scoring defense last year. The team needs to do better than that. Bama was 4th, USCe was 13th, and LSU was 22nd. It sure would be great if Auburn was in that top 25 ballpark.

[lca408 366]

Those looking to our offense for answers on the defense are looking down a rabbit hole. The answer lies in upgrading the talent level as well as building more depth in the back 7 (it's being done) and playing solid fundamentals. When games are on the line and poor tackling yields a 99 yard pass play or a 5 yard hitch that turns into a 45 yard gain, you need look no further. That has nothing to do with how good our offense is or how much better opposing offenses are now compared to 10 years ago.

The good news is we made marked improvement last year (redzone D, 3rd down D, scoring D, sacks, TFLs, better fundamentals) but it's just a start. We need to continue with that but take another big step in improvement this year too. With the upgrade in back 7 talent/depth in process I think the D will be better this year. So with that, taking the scoring D down from 24 points closer to 20 points (or less) is a very realistic goal. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Just a 20% improvement in our defense (very doable) when coupled with Gus's offense is going to make this '14 team very hard to beat.

Bingo. It doesn't necessarily have to do with a lack of talent with the exception of a position or two here or there. Auburn has essentially signed 5 straight top ten classes going back to 2010. A few of those were offense heavy but all had some big time defensive players, the majority of whom are either still here or were contributors. Yes there was attrition at spots but it wasn't a mass exodus. The problem is and always was development. We recruit the same guys that Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, etc. recruit. When those team can take their 4 star defensive guys as freshmen and sophomores on the field and not commit obvious fundamental errors even considering their youth, and you compare that to our players who have the same talent level and routinely give up bad angles, missed tackles, big plays, etc., you know there is something significant missing in the development department.

Auburn made significant headway in 2013 with a staff of coaches that put a premium on player development and coaching technique and fundamentals. For whatever reason, either the Chizik staff never spent any time on that or whatever coaching they did do didn't stick. I don't blame the coordinators as much as I blame the philosophy involved. Chizik was inadvertently called out in 2009 by Paul Roads when he took over at Iowa State for the fact that Cyclones players didn't know how to tackle properly and had been trained to leave their feet and dive at ballcarriers to go for the big hit. That's not real surprising given the results we saw on the field and when you see what Ted Roof did at Penn State immediately after leaving Auburn, I don't think it's a coincidence.

It may take time for these habits to be overcome but I think 2013 was a step in the right direction. I expect to see continued improvement this year, especially with the experience returning. To expect a top ten defense consistently is probably a bit unrealistic. I don't think the HUNH puts that much pressure on the offense but I'm sure there's some impact, however small it may be, if only because of playing style. Ultimately, we're gonna end up giving up more points because of the ability of offenses in today's world of college football. Shutouts might well become a thing of the past - for us, our last shutout on defense was in 2008, due to bad defense AND the influx of spread offenses. But we should be able to field a top 30 or even top 25 defense with the amount of talent we're amassing and it should work out just fine for this program.

[AUbritt 611]

I posted this article on Chavis and LSU last week in the Rivals section. I found it fairly informative.

I also agree with IronMan that a 20 ppg scoring defense would be a great goal for our D to shoot for.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

You really think that with our offense we have to hold defenses to 13 points a game or less? I think we need to have more realistic expectations here.

Well if LSU and UAT can have stout defenses ever year than so can AU. It's not that unrealistic.

I don't think that Caleb's disagreement was that we can't have a stout defense, I think he was disagreeing with the fact that we would need to average 13 points against with the high caliber offense that we have.

In other words, we know that Gus's offense is going to put up points. Nobody has found a way to consistently stop it yet. Our defense has the POTENTIAL to be stout, i.e. we can be stout, but our defense is not REQUIRED to be that stout for us to win games.

[Auburn4Winners 0]

I'd like to add that because defense is so reactionary, being in the system for longer will always help. Chavis' system has been in place for a while at LSU. Saban's system has been in place for a while at Bama. Obviously playmakers are playmakers and talent is talent but lack of talent can be made up for a lot by understanding and experience.

[leglessdan 1,934]

Let's not forget. ..in 2004 we had some of the hardest hitting DBs in CFB. And one of the best cover corners. I feel this team will come around this year or next as far as D goes. But with the dynamic offenses being used in this day and time. I'm a little confused as to why everyone is complaining about having a situational defense given the offensive fire power we are projected to be fielding this upcoming season. WDE

[leglessdan 1,934]

I'd like to add that because defense is so reactionary, being in the system for longer will always help. Chavis' system has been in place for a while at LSU. Saban's system has been in place for a while at Bama. Obviously playmakers are playmakers and talent is talent but lack of talent can be made up for a lot by understanding and experience.

+1000....give it time. We were a kickoff return due to lane breakdown from a hamstring injury and one missed tackle from being NCs last season. Considering what we went through in 2012....I'd say that was highly marked improvement. Not to mention the youth.

[caleb1633 1,418]

2009- 358

2010- 337

2011- 376

2012- 340

2013- 346

That is how many points AU has given up the last 5 seasons. IMO it needs to be under 200 this year or I just don't see ten going 15-0 or winning the West this year.

You really think that with our offense we have to hold defenses to 13 points a game or less? I think we need to have more realistic expectations here.

Well if LSU and UAT can have stout defenses ever year than so can AU. It's not that unrealistic.

I don't think that Caleb's disagreement was that we can't have a stout defense, I think he was disagreeing with the fact that we would need to average 13 points against with the high caliber offense that we have.

In other words, we know that Gus's offense is going to put up points. Nobody has found a way to consistently stop it yet. Our defense has the POTENTIAL to be stout, i.e. we can be stout, but our defense is not REQUIRED to be that stout for us to win games.

Exactly. While I would love to see us hold teams to 15 or less points per game this season, I think that if we hold teams to less than 20 on average, we'll have a great season and should be in the playoff.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Those looking to our offense for answers on the defense are looking down a rabbit hole. The answer lies in upgrading the talent level as well as building more depth in the back 7 (it's being done) and playing solid fundamentals. When games are on the line and poor tackling yields a 99 yard pass play or a 5 yard hitch that turns into a 45 yard gain, you need look no further. That has nothing to do with how good our offense is or how much better opposing offenses are now compared to 10 years ago.

The good news is we made marked improvement last year (redzone D, 3rd down D, scoring D, sacks, TFLs, better fundamentals) but it's just a start. We need to continue with that but take another big step in improvement this year too. With the upgrade in back 7 talent/depth in process I think the D will be better this year. So with that, taking the scoring D down from 24 points closer to 20 points (or less) is a very realistic goal. I have said this before but it bares repeating. Just a 20% improvement in our defense (very doable) when coupled with Gus's offense is going to make this '14 team very hard to beat.

I will be fortunate if I ever forget about the 5 yard hitch that turned into 45 yards. With that said, you are spot on

[Randman5000 4,228]

True to above. Our defense has been down the past few years and last year we were dreadful some times and cost us some times especially in the middle of the field or on the edge but they made drastic improvements considering what we were watching the year before. Not speaking of covering, but in tackling fundamentals. Jeez, I cannot even count the number of times I saw runners heading towards our defenders and us diving sideways so we could swipe at their feet or drop to our knees to try to take their ankles out with the shoulder. It still happened but it was no where close to the year before seeing our linebackers and safeties get run over or guys diving all over the place at ankles. Still work to do, but I think the coaches are up to the task. Getting talent in the secondary and lb is going to help tremendously this year. I think we will be prepared.

[macauburn 6]

At one time, Auburn was known for defense. The Auburn LSU interception game comes to mind, in 1994. The defense was capable of scoring more than the offense. Dye was a great defense coach and the world knew it. Malzahn is a great offense coach, and the world knows it now , if they did not know it before last season. The little fella coaching across the state is known for defense. He's not much on offense. Especially, bad defensively against the HUNH. I wish Florida would fire Muschamp and Auburn could convince him to coach on defense again. Muschamp had a charisma about him that the Auburn defensive players responded to. Otherwise, the defense needs to keep on chopping wood, it will be a slow process to regain the Auburn defenses of lore.

[macauburn 6]

How could I forget Terry Bowden was the coach in 1994? Yep , ole tater tot.