The Cross and the Confederate Flag

[homersapien 11,389]

As predicted.

http://www.al.com/ne...and_has_al.html

Sad.

There is nothing sad about it. The people that believe the flag has a deeper meaning than race has every right to buy it.

I neither said, nor implied, anything about rights.

And it's still sad.

Well then you need to give an argument for why it's sad. The cross is a horrible argument so keep that in my mind

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but...

It's a flag that was borne of a country that really only existed because it wanted to preserve slavery. Their own words at the time make it abundantly and undeniably clear that slavery was the reason they were seceding. Regardless of any other good or noble things you think the CSA stood for, that massive stain overshadows everything else. Then in the decades after the defeat of the Confederacy, it was a flag adopted by the KKK and other white supremacists who helped enact Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise and subjugate blacks - not to mention intimidated, terrorized, beat and murdered blacks and those who sympathized with them.

As society began to awaken to this grave sin and moral blight and called for the end of these oppressive laws and segregation, those who still championed the ideas of white supremacy, segregated (but unequal) schools, restaurants, theaters and water fountains chose this same flag as their symbol. They changed state flags to incorporate it into the design. They added it to municipal and state seals and symbols. They raised it over capital domes. They waved it at their pro-segregation rallies.

When they lost those battles in the wake of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, it still was used as a symbol of defiance of those changes.

In spite of all of this, some still try to somehow blot that from their minds and claim it merely represents history and heritage, bravery and valor. But it means none of those things to our black neighbors, brothers and sisters in Christ (for those of us who claim to be Christians). For the overwhelming majority of blacks, it has no honor, no valor, no heritage. It is a symbol of a country that saw them as property, broke up their families, stripped them of their history, and for 100 years after they were technically freed, did everything in its power under that symbolic banner to keep a white boot on their necks. There are no visions of Scarlett O'Hara, cotillions and mint juleps on the veranda. There are visions of hard manual labor in the sweltering Southern summers, being called n***er, being lashed with a bullwhip, poverty, lynchings, rigged jury trials, treated as unclean, and hooded mobs terrorizing them in the night.

This flag has no prior history to the Confederacy that can be recovered. The Cross has that. Heck, even a swastika has that. It is a symbol whose origin and most of its implementation have been associated with nothing but suffering, pain, oppression, subjugation, dehumanization and death for black people in this country.

So in light of all that, I find it sad that the only thing that matters to some (at best) is their feelings, their associations of what the flag means and at worst is a purposeful thumbing of the nose and a middle finger to those for whom it is an inevitably and logically a wholly painful symbol. It's sad that they feel their right to display and fly it is more important than what it means to their neighbor.

i may borrow this to use elsewhere.

I archived it also. Its a well-written, succinct summary.

[aujeff11 6,243]

And even though the rest of society turned away from de jure segregation before the south, they remained in their de facto segregation ways even until today. In 1907, Indiana passed a law to sterilize the murderers along with the ones with mental deficiencies. Talking about moral blights. Take the American flag down too.

[augolf1716 21,213]

:popcorn:

[cole256 17,084]

Everybody calm down.....(You know it's bad when I'm the one to say this lol)

[augolf1716 21,213]

wow cole it worked

[TitanTiger 20,499]

And even though the rest of society turned away from de jure segregation before the south, they remained in their de facto segregation ways even until today. In 1907, Indiana passed a law to sterilize the murderers along with the ones with mental deficiencies. Talking about moral blights. Take the American flag down too.

The US, though imperfectly, has made great efforts at equality and continues to do so. And they did so (though late) without having to be defeated in a bloody 4-year war. The Confederacy formed because of slavery and only gave up slavery because they were defeated, battered and bruised and had no choice. Then as soon as Reconstruction was over, the sympathizers of that regime rose up and did all they could for the next century to beat blacks right back in to their place below the white man.

The situations simply aren't comparable. It's a blight on your critical thinking skills that you'd try to pass off this weak sauce as if they were.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Titan continues with revised history so we will reach 100 pages easily

[WarTim 3,456]

How about this. A wise man once stated we should judge a man by the content of his character. Hmmmm. That works...when applied by ALL. Whatever happened to that man and this amazingly true and do-able idea? Oh. That's right. He was killed for so boldly stating the Truth...

[Mims44 1,872]

How about this. A wise man once stated we should judge a man by the content of his character. Hmmmm. That works...when applied by ALL. Whatever happened to that man and this amazingly true and do-able idea? Oh. That's right. He was killed for so boldly stating the Truth...

That actually got me curious enough to look up James Earl Ray a bit, I was not aware that the King family does not believe Ray is guilty of killing MLK.

Pretty strange.

[DKW 86 7,428]

Thanks for the funny. But if people are going to ask me, I'm going to tell them.

Titan, it was for this whole thread, not just you. All 90 plus pages of it so far.

[cole256 17,084]

wow cole it worked

Well I have paid the cost to be the boss...

[WarTim 3,456]

How about this. A wise man once stated we should judge a man by the content of his character. Hmmmm. That works...when applied by ALL. Whatever happened to that man and this amazingly true and do-able idea? Oh. That's right. He was killed for so boldly stating the Truth...

That actually got me curious enough to look up James Earl Ray a bit, I was not aware that the King family does not believe Ray is guilty of killing MLK.

Pretty strange.

Whether or not he acted alone, I believe he pulled the trigger.Our Country suffered a HUGE loss that day and IMHO have not yet recovered. Several have "tried" ( or so they claim) to fill His shoes. It simply has not happened ...yet.

[cole256 17,084]

Nobody has replaced any great men in history. Haven't recovered from the loss of any of them imo

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Titan continues with revised history so we will reach 100 pages easily

Says AUF's Chief Revisionist.

[homersapien 11,389]

Titan continues with revised history so we will reach 100 pages easily

Name one thing Titan has cited that isn't true.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Easy....that the Civil War started over slavery. That is revisionist history at it's best.

[alexava 6,973]

yet i see no other reasons for the start of the war offered.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Easy....that the Civil War started over slavery. That is revisionist history at it's best.

I've said repeatedly that the South seceded over slavery. It is the #1 reason the CSA came into existence. That is undeniable.

And yes, they knew it would inevitably mean war with the U.S. However, that's not exactly the same thing as what your selective hearing took in.

No revisionism over here. Check your area again.

[homersapien 11,389]

Easy....that the Civil War started over slavery. That is revisionist history at it's best.

Presumably that's (weak) sarcasm.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Not sarcasm, just truth. The states seceded over the issues of states tight. Slavery became the main issue shortly after the war started. Anyone who thinks different probably thinks the Emancipation Proclamation set the slaves free. But to each s own opinion.

[alexava 6,973]

Not sarcasm, just truth. The states seceded over the issues of states tight. Slavery became the main issue shortly after the war started. Anyone who thinks different probably thinks the Emancipation Proclamation set the slaves free. But to each s own opinion.

states tight? I assume you mean states rights? can you be more specific?

[AUUSN 823]

Not sarcasm, just truth. The states seceded over the issues of states tight. Slavery became the main issue shortly after the war started. Anyone who thinks different probably thinks the Emancipation Proclamation set the slaves free. But to each s own opinion.

states tight? I assume you mean states rights? can you be more specific?

States tights

[cole256 17,084]

Uh oh a typo....You know what that means

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Not sarcasm, just truth. The states seceded over the issues of states tight. Slavery became the main issue shortly after the war started. Anyone who thinks different probably thinks the Emancipation Proclamation set the slaves free. But to each s own opinion.

Bull****.

The states said clearly why they seceded and it wasn't states rights, unless by states right you mean what they meant: slavery. The right to own slaves without interference from anyone else, the right to have fugitive slaves returned to them and the promise of spreading slavery to other territories. No other states right amounted to a hill of beans compared to that. The South seceded because of slavery. The said it clear as day in their articles of secession and in numerous other public statements before the first shot was ever fired.

This is not a matter of opinion. This has been shown to you over and over and over again with quotes from the states that were seceding themselves. I'm not repeating this for you because I know you read it and if you didn't understand it, go back in time and slap your reading teachers square in the mouth for completely failing you. If you did understand it and are still peddling this southern-fried fairy tale, you're just dishonest. Either that or you are seriously desperate to get this thing to 100 pages.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Uh oh a typo....You know what that means

Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!