Hitting women, equality?

[cole256 17,065]

To the ones that say the woman did nothing wrong,

I don't think anyone has made that claim.

if the FSU QB never punched her after being kneed in the midsection

We don't concede that this is an accurate description of what happened.

and punched, which party was more guilty?

If he still grabbed her and refused to let go every after her attempt to push away from him, I'd say she has a right to use force to make him get his hands off of her and stop controlling her movements.

You don't think anybody said she wasn't wrong??? Have you read through this thread?

I know I haven't. And I don't think I saw anyone claim she did nothing wrong. What has been said is that he was more in the wrong and that it was his actions that were the primary ones that escalated matters into violence.

That last sentence is what I can't agree with at all

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Oh yes they have!

Link? Because it certainly isn't me. Maybe I missed it though, so link away.

You havent conceded because you're allowing your pride to get the best of you.

No, I haven't conceded because your arguments are completely unconvincing and I think my arguments as well as those of homer, Ben, Raptor, alex and others do a far better job of accurately describing what happened.

Any time a fist is raised, the male has the privilege to get in his defensive position too. I'd rather "grab the hands" instead of getting into the fetal position.

Typical false dichotomy to deflect from a poor argument. The only options aren't to grab her or ball up like a baby.

A proportional defensive position would be to raise his own fist in response. You do not have the right to grab her simply because she gets into a defensive position of being ready to hit you if you don't stop jostling the girl around.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Off the top of my head raptor did. I want to say other people but I might get them mixed up with the other thread about this.

OH

To the ones that say the woman did nothing wrong,

I don't think anyone has made that claim.

if the FSU QB never punched her after being kneed in the midsection

We don't concede that this is an accurate description of what happened.

and punched, which party was more guilty?

If he still grabbed her and refused to let go every after her attempt to push away from him, I'd say she has a right to use force to make him get his hands off of her and stop controlling her movements.

You don't think anybody said she wasn't wrong??? Have you read through this thread?

I know I haven't. And I don't think I saw anyone claim she did nothing wrong. What has been said is that he was more in the wrong and that it was his actions that were the primary ones that escalated matters into violence.

I remember your post and I know you never implied that.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Oh yes they have!

Link? Because it certainly isn't me. Maybe I missed it though, so link away.

You havent conceded because you're allowing your pride to get the best of you.

No, I haven't conceded because your arguments are completely unconvincing and I think my arguments as well as those of homer, Ben, Raptor, alex and others do a far better job of accurately interpreting what happened.

Any time a fist is raised, the male has the privilege to get in his defensive position too. I'd rather "grab the hands" instead of getting into the fetal position.

Typical false dichotomy to deflect from a poor argument. The only options aren't to grab her or ball up like a baby.

A proportional defensive position would be to raise his own fist in response. You do not have the right to grab her simply because she gets into a defensive position of being ready to hit you if you don't stop jostling the girl around.

So you think he should have acted proportionally or allowed her to hit him. All or nothing, right!

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Off the top of my head raptor did. I want to say other people but I might get them mixed up with the other thread about this.

I just went through Raptor's posts on this thread. He believes the QB is totally in the wrong and doesn't put any responsibility on the girl for it. But that is qualified by what he said here:

Regardless of what the girl is, he is the one who initiated the contact. She raised her fist, but he's the one Who grabbed first. . That's when it started. Stop trying to deflect away from the fact that he hit her, hard.

The "it" being what happened from the point that started with him grabbing her. He doesn't detail what he thinks she might have done wrong before then.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

So you think he should have acted proportionally or allowed her to hit him. All or nothing, right!

Dear Lord - stop being a reactionary and think.

Again, those aren't his only options, False Dilemma Man. He could raise his own fist in response without grabbing her. If she takes a swing, does he not have the ability to move out of the way? Block or deflect the punch? Has he never watched 3 seconds of a boxing match?

You just don't seem to get that there are multiple responses and things he could have done to both avoid personal injury AND not escalate things.

[Mims44 1,869]

I said at the beginning I wouldn't have hit her, I don't hurt women... unless paid by my government to do so:)

That being said, I have, multiple times held a female or males arms back when they raise fists. I've never had it escalate to punches after that, I've had fights in bars but never when I was able to stop a first punch from being thrown. I just held them in place until I either calmed them down or got a bouncer over to intervene.

I've also never been the one to be escorted out by handling the situation in that manner, though it probably helps that when the bouncer comes over I calmly say whats going on, while the drunken moron screams obscenities at the top of their lungs.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I said at the beginning I wouldn't have hit her, I don't hurt women... unless paid by my government to do so:)

That being said, I have, multiple times held a female or males arms back when they raise fists. I've never had it escalate to punches after that, I've had fights in bars but never when I was able to stop a first punch from being thrown. I just held them in place until I either calmed them down or got a bouncer over to intervene.

I've also never been the one to be escorted out by handling the situation in that manner, though it probably helps that when the bouncer comes over I calmly say whats going on, while the drunken moron screams obscenities at the top of their lungs.

I have held fists back as well. It seems to be the most natural thing a person can do other than to blink or duck.

[aujeff11 6,243]

So you think he should have acted proportionally or allowed her to hit him. All or nothing, right!

Dear Lord - stop being a reactionary and think.

Again, those aren't his only options, False Dilemma Man. He could raise his own fist in response without grabbing her. If she takes a swing, does he not have the ability to move out of the way? Block or deflect the punch? Has he never watched 3 seconds of a boxing match?

You just don't seem to get that there are multiple responses and things he could have done to both avoid personal injury AND not escalate things.

Stop the name calling and practice what you preach, huh? All I did was state what you just wrote. Yeah he has the ability to get out of the way or to deflect. Is that all he has the ability to do?

[aujeff11 6,243]

Btw I don't think it is smart to tell the Lord to stop being a reactionary and to think.

[cole256 17,065]

I said at the beginning I wouldn't have hit her, I don't hurt women... unless paid by my government to do so:)

That being said, I have, multiple times held a female or males arms back when they raise fists. I've never had it escalate to punches after that, I've had fights in bars but never when I was able to stop a first punch from being thrown. I just held them in place until I either calmed them down or got a bouncer over to intervene.

I've also never been the one to be escorted out by handling the situation in that manner, though it probably helps that when the bouncer comes over I calmly say whats going on, while the drunken moron screams obscenities at the top of their lungs.

The fact that some are saying the big thing that went wrong was him holding her fist back is mind boggling to me. Like you should willingly take a punch or you just feel like because it's a woman you know you'll be fast enough to dodge or block the punch...people watch too many super hero movies, or like I said haven't been in any fights

[cole256 17,065]

Off the top of my head raptor did. I want to say other people but I might get them mixed up with the other thread about this.

I just went through Raptor's posts on this thread. He believes the QB is totally in the wrong and doesn't put any responsibility on the girl for it. But that is qualified by what he said here:

Regardless of what the girl is, he is the one who initiated the contact. She raised her fist, but he's the one Who grabbed first. . That's when it started. Stop trying to deflect away from the fact that he hit her, hard.

The "it" being what happened from the point that started with him grabbing her. He doesn't detail what he thinks she might have done wrong before then.

Well saying the guy is totally wrong and not playing any blame on the girl is what I disagree with

[TitanTiger 20,482]

So you think he should have acted proportionally or allowed her to hit him. All or nothing, right!

Dear Lord - stop being a reactionary and think.

Again, those aren't his only options, False Dilemma Man. He could raise his own fist in response without grabbing her. If she takes a swing, does he not have the ability to move out of the way? Block or deflect the punch? Has he never watched 3 seconds of a boxing match?

You just don't seem to get that there are multiple responses and things he could have done to both avoid personal injury AND not escalate things.

Stop the name calling and practice what you preach, huh? All I did was state what you just wrote. Yeah he has the ability to get out of the way or to deflect. Is that all he has the ability to do?

Keep your pants on.

And that's not what you did. You presented another false dilemma of act proportionally (raise his own fist) or just let her hit him. He could do a variety of things:

Raise his fist as a warning and a similar (proportional) defensive posture.

Put his hands up and tell her he didn't intentionally plow into her - try to defuse the situation

Tell her to calm her ass down and walk away.

Block or deflect a punch if she ended up throwing one.

Dodge any punch she threw.

Push her aside if she started to throw a punch to make her miss, then walk off.

I could probably come up with more. Amazingly, you can do all these things without grabbing someone. When he did that, all bets were off. Anyone that is being grabbed and controlled is going to feel threatened, much less a girl that's 4-5" shorter and 50 lbs or so lighter than an athletic guy.

[aujeff11 6,243]

So you think he should have acted proportionally or allowed her to hit him. All or nothing, right!

Dear Lord - stop being a reactionary and think.

Again, those aren't his only options, False Dilemma Man. He could raise his own fist in response without grabbing her. If she takes a swing, does he not have the ability to move out of the way? Block or deflect the punch? Has he never watched 3 seconds of a boxing match?

You just don't seem to get that there are multiple responses and things he could have done to both avoid personal injury AND not escalate things.

Stop the name calling and practice what you preach, huh? All I did was state what you just wrote. Yeah he has the ability to get out of the way or to deflect. Is that all he has the ability to do?

Keep your pants on.

And that's not what you did. You presented another false dilemma of act proportionally (raise his own fist) or just let her hit him. He could do a variety of things:

Raise his fist as a warning and a similar (proportional) defensive posture.

Put his hands up and tell her he didn't intentionally plow into her - try to defuse the situation

Tell her to calm her ass down and walk away.

Block or deflect a punch if she ended up throwing one.

Dodge any punch she threw.

Push her aside if she started to throw a punch to make her miss, then walk off.

I could probably come up with more. Amazingly, you can do all these things without grabbing someone. When he did that, all bets were off. Anyone that is being grabbed and controlled is going to feel threatened, much less a girl that's 4-5" shorter and 50 lbs or so lighter than an athletic guy.

Pushing her aside is so much less violent than grabbing her wrist. :-\

Here I thought grabbing her wrist was his way of saying "I don't want to fight."

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Pushing her aside is so much less violent than grabbing her wrist. :-\

Pay attention. I said he could push her aside if she threw a punch. He grabbed her wrist without her doing anything other than being ready to throw one.

Here I thought grabbing her wrist was his way of saying "I don't want to fight."

Actually the problem is that you keep typing before thought kicks in.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Pushing her aside is so much less violent than grabbing her wrist. :-\

Pay attention. I said he could push her aside if she threw a punch. He grabbed her wrist without her doing anything other than being ready to throw one.

Here I thought grabbing her wrist was his way of saying "I don't want to fight."

Actually the problem is that you keep typing before thought kicks in.

I'm not waiting for anybody to throw a punch.

No the problem is you're trying to be a know it all on a subject you're ignorant about.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I'm not waiting for anybody to throw a punch.

Then you too will be charged with assault and/or battery, and deservedly so. You don't get to grab and control people, especially people obviously weaker than you, because you're afraid they might do something. If she starts to throw it, you have more options. Until then, keep your hands to yourself.

No the problem is you're trying to be a know it all on a subject you're ignorant about.

If I have any level of ignorance here, it's still superior knowledge to yours.

I never claimed to know it all. But I know enough.

[WarTim 3,456]

Finally, it also offends my "Southern heritage" as it should any Southern man.

First sensible thing I've seen you post in quite some time.

Cheers.

I think you took the bait. Not happening...

Actually, Raptor and I agree on this.

"Think" what you will.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Finally, it also offends my "Southern heritage" as it should any Southern man.

First sensible thing I've seen you post in quite some time.

Cheers.

I think you took the bait. Not happening...

Actually, Raptor and I agree on this.

"Think" what you will.

The hell is that supposed to mean? He and Raptor do agree on this particular matter.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Yeah, a person could block, deflect, dodge, but none of that does me any good if I dont judge the punch or if my reflexes are not up to par. Which they wont be if the person is drinking- that is proven. Plus, you're allowing the aggressor the small chance to break your defense and get a lucky shot. I'd rather go ahead and grab the arm just to be on the safe side. That is why I don't fault the kid for grabbing her arm.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I'm not waiting for anybody to throw a punch.

Then you too will be charged with assault and/or battery, and deservedly so. You don't get to grab and control people, especially people obviously weaker than you, because you're afraid they might do something. If she starts to throw it, you have more options. Until then, keep your hands to yourself.

No the problem is you're trying to be a know it all on a subject you're ignorant about.

If I have any level of ignorance here, it's still superior knowledge to yours.

I never claimed to know it all. But I know enough.

Lol okay, smalls. Nobody is going to be charged with battery for trying to stop a fight.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I'm not waiting for anybody to throw a punch.

Then you too will be charged with assault and/or battery, and deservedly so. You don't get to grab and control people, especially people obviously weaker than you, because you're afraid they might do something. If she starts to throw it, you have more options. Until then, keep your hands to yourself.

No the problem is you're trying to be a know it all on a subject you're ignorant about.

If I have any level of ignorance here, it's still superior knowledge to yours.

I never claimed to know it all. But I know enough.

Lol okay, smalls. Nobody is going to be charged with battery for trying to stop a fight.

Battery in Florida at occurs when a person:

1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or

2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.

But yeah, I'm showing my ignorance.

But if you're feeling skippy, grab the next girl you see in a bar about the wrist and prevent her from pulling away because you feel "threatened" by her feminine power. We'll see who gets charged with what. The second you put your hands on her when she hasn't hit or grabbed you, battery is on the table.

[WarTim 3,456]

Finally, it also offends my "Southern heritage" as it should any Southern man.

First sensible thing I've seen you post in quite some time.

Cheers.

I think you took the bait. Not happening...

Actually, Raptor and I agree on this.

"Think" what you will.

The hell is that supposed to mean? He and Raptor do agree on this particular matter.

Wait....no....I am certain I was not speaking to you. Are you constantly defending sapien now?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Wait....no....I am certain I was not speaking to you. Are you constantly defending sapien now?

Wait...no....I can respond to any post in the thread I wish to. This isn't a private conversation between you and homer. There is functionality on this forum to do that if that's what you intended though. You've been here long enough to know how open threads work. Anyone could have asked the same question I did. It's not restricted to homer and no one else.

Raptor and homer do agree on this matter. Are you contesting this?

[WarTim 3,456]

Wait....no....I am certain I was not speaking to you. Are you constantly defending sapien now?

Wait...no....I can respond to any post in the thread I wish to. This isn't a private conversation between you and homer. There is functionality on this forum to do that if that's what you intended though. You've been here long enough to know how open threads work. Anyone could have asked the same question I did. It's not restricted to homer and no one else.

Raptor and homer do agree on this matter. Are you contesting this?

Thanks for the answer.