I'm confused, but sw and jj are the same

[FoundationEagle 637]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

It's impossible to read cole in any other way than what he posts every 2 seconds. He argues ad nauseum with anyone who suggest that SW performed better than JJ. He does not want discussion of who is better, he wants succession from everyone here that SW was not better than JJ and any statement to the contrary will be attacked and the poster belittled. I applaud your effort to defend someone, but Cole is not being misunderstood. He is on every thread on this topic barking the same exact things and attacking anyone that doesn't agree. No misunderstanding here.

Completely not true, but yes if I state they play the same and you state sw was better then I'm going to say why I felt they were the same and then I'd assume you'd state why you feel sw was better...we're doing the same exact thing.

I find it funny you of all people say this. People called you a troll and said stuff about you being negative and you said you were just giving an opinion and what you see. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear and now you're doing the same....that's ironic

And the attacks continue. Have never seen anyone call me a troll. I was negative about a lot of things, and most have improved. And , I didn't attack you, I said you aren't misunderstood and provided the pattern of why I believed so. Thanks for proving my point. Carry on

Attacks?? I attacked you? When did I say you attacked me? No credibility,Man really stop talking to me.

Insinuating that others call me a troll when it's not true is just a friendly gesture? Got it. I'd put you on my ignore list but you aggregate so many people into quoting you that it won't help. Let's just agree to disagree. Bygons, etc. moving on.

[Weegle777 78]

I apologize for the sour grapes comment. But you have to admit that your argument is premature.

[AUbritt 611]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

That's all well and good but my comment was about "a thread like this", not the originator of the thread or motives.

Well, I think we may be splitting hairs here, IronMan -- and you know I don't want to argue with you. What you initially said, and what I initially responded to, was about "a thread to compare SW to JJ." My response was that the thread got sidetracked, and that it wasn't the main purpose of the OP to compare SW to JJ. That's what led to my talk of cole's motives; but I think those motives are relevant to discussing what it means to have "a thread like this."

Maybe I just misunderstood your posts. It happens.

[cole256 17,080]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

It's impossible to read cole in any other way than what he posts every 2 seconds. He argues ad nauseum with anyone who suggest that SW performed better than JJ. He does not want discussion of who is better, he wants succession from everyone here that SW was not better than JJ and any statement to the contrary will be attacked and the poster belittled. I applaud your effort to defend someone, but Cole is not being misunderstood. He is on every thread on this topic barking the same exact things and attacking anyone that doesn't agree. No misunderstanding here.

Completely not true, but yes if I state they play the same and you state sw was better then I'm going to say why I felt they were the same and then I'd assume you'd state why you feel sw was better...we're doing the same exact thing.

I find it funny you of all people say this. People called you a troll and said stuff about you being negative and you said you were just giving an opinion and what you see. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear and now you're doing the same....that's ironic

And the attacks continue. Have never seen anyone call me a troll. I was negative about a lot of things, and most have improved. And , I didn't attack you, I said you aren't misunderstood and provided the pattern of why I believed so. Thanks for proving my point. Carry on

Attacks?? I attacked you? When did I say you attacked me? No credibility,Man really stop talking to me.

Insinuating that others call me a troll when it's not true is just a friendly gesture? Got it. I'd put you on my ignore list but you aggregate so many people into quoting you that it won't help. Let's just agree to disagree. Bygons, etc. moving on.

This is stupid. YOU come talking negative about me as if you knew me or I had a history with you, say I said you attacked me when I didn't, all because you don't agree with me and don't want me to reply when you talk. This is so crazy I would say you have me confused with someone else. Then talk about an ignore feature lol....I've seen your posts but I can't say I've seen you as a must follow type of poster lol. You don't have to ignore me we can continue as it always been....don't say anything to me, I've been damn near oblivious to your presence.

[cole256 17,080]

I apologize for the sour grapes comment. But you have to admit that your argument is premature.

No need to apologize gramps, you're always fussing about sensitive kids anyway lol. But at this time I really don't think what I'm saying is premature though. I may not be expressing myself thoroughly though

[AUbritt 611]

I apologize for the sour grapes comment. But you have to admit that your argument is premature.

No need to apologize gramps, you're always fussing about sensitive kids anyway lol. But at this time I really don't think what I'm saying is premature though. I may not be expressing myself thoroughly though

I thought the comparison was between the way the fans (or posters here) were reacting to SW versus how they were reacting to JJ.

I still think the explanation for the difference is that we had very different expectation levels of the two: sky high for JJ, very low for SW.

[cole256 17,080]

That was part of it, and I'm also thinking if they are making the same mistakes maybe qb development is a problem. But I have a different theory about sw though. I think some were going to say he's better than jj and have positive things to say about him no matter what. It's like they whole heartedly have to pit them against each other. Like you have to like this about one and not this about the other I don't understand it ...But that's just my opinion

[AUbritt 611]

That was part of it, and I'm also thinking if they are making the same mistakes maybe qb development is a problem

Right. Which is consistent with others asking who's actually responsible for the playcalling (Gus or Rhett). Wonder whether, if it is Rhett, there's been any consideration given to changing that. I mean, we do have CDC right there. Couldn't he help with the QBs? What about Bentley? If not with the playcalling, at least more help with film analysis and practice seems to be something Gus ought to consider at this point.

[Weegle777 78]

Every person on this board was and is behind Jeremy. What are you basing this opinion on?

[TexasTiger 12,876]

That was part of it, and I'm also thinking if they are making the same mistakes maybe qb development is a problem. But I have a different theory about sw though. I think some were going to say he's better than jj and have positive things to say about him no matter what. It's like they whole heartedly have to pit them against each other. Like you have to like this about one and not this about the other I don't understand it ...But that's just my opinion

What's the point of the original question, though? You know one guy's had 5 starts and played in other big games and the the other guy has never had a snap. Do you honestly expect folks to have the same frustration with the mistakes of a player who has never taken a snap? Didn't the way you phrased the topic set that dynamic up?

[IronMan70 3,277]

Well, I think we may be splitting hairs here, IronMan -- and you know I don't want to argue with you. What you initially said, and what I initially responded to, was about "a thread to compare SW to JJ." My response was that the thread got sidetracked, and that it wasn't the main purpose of the OP to compare SW to JJ. That's what led to my talk of cole's motives; but I think those motives are relevant to discussing what it means to have "a thread like this."

Maybe I just misunderstood your posts. It happens.

No, there is no splitting of hairs going on, you misunderstood apparently. Read them together, the theme of "a thread" was clear in all 3 of my very short comments.

"But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other."

"Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this."

"That's all well and good but my comment was about 'a thread like this', not the originator of the thread or motives."

[bikeriderga 134]

I guess we watched two different games. I thought Sean had a good first game. A couple of mistakes, but played much better than JJ has been playing.

We actually should have won this game. Every stat was better for AU over Miss. State except the one that counted. 4 red zone entries and only field goals to show for it, is what killed us in this game.

[cole256 17,080]

That was part of it, and I'm also thinking if they are making the same mistakes maybe qb development is a problem. But I have a different theory about sw though. I think some were going to say he's better than jj and have positive things to say about him no matter what. It's like they whole heartedly have to pit them against each other. Like you have to like this about one and not this about the other I don't understand it ...But that's just my opinion

What's the point of the original question, though? You know one guy's had 5 starts and played in other big games and the the other guy has never had a snap. Do you honestly expect folks to have the same frustration with the mistakes of a player who has never taken a snap? Didn't the way you phrased the topic set that dynamic up?

I addressed this in an earlier post. One thing when everybody is saying he can't be worse, he's more cerebral, makes progressions, is more accurate, has better instincts then yes I do expect to see a difference. Then a play where you throw into triple coverage and there isn't a wr around, yes I expect criticism from that. Now the one Brown should've picked no I wouldn't expect the same. So I guess it depends on what mistake it is. But things like now discussing the o line, and wr drops when it wasn't an excuse earlier is peculiar to me (of course I can't say this is every poster) jj runs the long td against LSU and it's no running ability was required sw has some smaller runs and he's a leader and a champion, that's peculiar imo. But I can't tell anybody else what to do but me personally I'm going to call a spade a spade

[AUbritt 611]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

That's all well and good but my comment was about "a thread like this", not the originator of the thread or motives.

Well, I think we may be splitting hairs here, IronMan -- and you know I don't want to argue with you. What you initially said, and what I initially responded to, was about "a thread to compare SW to JJ." My response was that the thread got sidetracked, and that it wasn't the main purpose of the OP to compare SW to JJ. That's what led to my talk of cole's motives; but I think those motives are relevant to discussing what it means to have "a thread like this."

Maybe I just misunderstood your posts. It happens.

We aren't splitting hairs at all. The theme of "the thread" was clear in all 3 of my very short comments. You apparently misunderstood.

"But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other."

"Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this."

"That's all well and good but my comment was about "a thread like this", not the originator of the thread or motives."

Indeed, I see that "the thread" was a thread in all your comments. I still think the OP's motives are relevant to discussing the need to have a thread like this. But I can also understand it if someone wants to say that we should determine the need based on the consequences of a thread like this (negative comments about both players) and say we don't need that.

[Ronin 2]

Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

About sums it up.

Well, like I said, I'm not convinced they are the same. But Stat also makes a similar claim in his report card thread. Essentially, statistically, SW did no better passing than JJ has done so far.

But I saw what y'all saw -- that SW looked more decisive and more in control. So, I'm asking cole for more support for the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

I think Stats point was that in the plays we called last night, it wouldn't have made a difference. I don't necessarily agree with that, but he has the evidence to support that theory. His point was critical of play calling, not White, and he wasn't trying to say they are the same.

Well, I've asked Stat to clarify just this point. Here's what he said:

Toss out the last offensive possession and 88% of the pass attempts were within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. This conservative approach made the quarterback change pointless for the most part. Jeremy Johnson was already completing 84% of his passes without an interception within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to take away from a gutty performance by Sean White, but Johnson could have produced the same results.

I agree that his main point seems to be to decry the conservative play-calling. But one might also interpret him as suggesting that JJ could have done just as well as SW.

I think cole is suggesting that SW did no better than JJ would have done, or at least that he made the same sorts of mistakes. Now, cole's question, as I see it, is why is SW getting a pass when JJ was getting slammed. I'm suggesting two things:

1) SW did in fact play better than JJ, and

2) Expectations were dramatically different, and people are more disappointed in JJ because of higher expectations.

I think someone mentioned it earlier but we also haven't seen much evidence that JJ was improving and we still have some hope that Sean will. Why are we comparing Sean's 1st start to JJ's 5th?

This is what impatience bring-- as I'm catching up on the thread I see TexasTiger said essentially the same thing.

[cole256 17,080]

I guess we watched two different games. I thought Sean had a good first game. A couple of mistakes, but played much better than JJ has been playing.

We actually should have won this game. Every stat was better for AU over Miss. State except the one that counted. 4 red zone entries and only field goals to show for it, is what killed us in this game.

I thought me played well too. I think from what I saw he should be the starter. But I'm also saying when it was third and long??? Same results from both qb's. When we had penalties and drops on a drive? Same results. I'm thinking performance is alot closer than what many are saying. But I also believe if it's that close and since he seemed to run more he should start.

Second part of what I'm saying if they do make the same bad mistakes like throwing into triple coverage....I think it says something with the qb coaching

[FoundationEagle 637]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

It's impossible to read cole in any other way than what he posts every 2 seconds. He argues ad nauseum with anyone who suggest that SW performed better than JJ. He does not want discussion of who is better, he wants succession from everyone here that SW was not better than JJ and any statement to the contrary will be attacked and the poster belittled. I applaud your effort to defend someone, but Cole is not being misunderstood. He is on every thread on this topic barking the same exact things and attacking anyone that doesn't agree. No misunderstanding here.

Completely not true, but yes if I state they play the same and you state sw was better then I'm going to say why I felt they were the same and then I'd assume you'd state why you feel sw was better...we're doing the same exact thing.

I find it funny you of all people say this. People called you a troll and said stuff about you being negative and you said you were just giving an opinion and what you see. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear and now you're doing the same....that's ironic

And the attacks continue. Have never seen anyone call me a troll. I was negative about a lot of things, and most have improved. And , I didn't attack you, I said you aren't misunderstood and provided the pattern of why I believed so. Thanks for proving my point. Carry on

Attacks?? I attacked you? When did I say you attacked me? No credibility,Man really stop talking to me.

Insinuating that others call me a troll when it's not true is just a friendly gesture? Got it. I'd put you on my ignore list but you aggregate so many people into quoting you that it won't help. Let's just agree to disagree. Bygons, etc. moving on.

This is stupid. YOU come talking negative about me as if you knew me or I had a history with you, say I said you attacked me when I didn't, all because you don't agree with me and don't want me to reply when you talk. This is so crazy I would say you have me confused with someone else. Then talk about an ignore feature lol....I've seen your posts but I can't say I've seen you as a must follow type of poster lol. You don't have to ignore me we can continue as it always been....don't say anything to me, I've been damn near oblivious to your presence.

Big man words. What a keyboard badass you are. Seriously, just stop. Im here as an Auburn supporter, not to be a "must follow poster". If that's what you're here for then we know the problem.

[cole256 17,080]

Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

About sums it up.

Well, like I said, I'm not convinced they are the same. But Stat also makes a similar claim in his report card thread. Essentially, statistically, SW did no better passing than JJ has done so far.

But I saw what y'all saw -- that SW looked more decisive and more in control. So, I'm asking cole for more support for the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

I think Stats point was that in the plays we called last night, it wouldn't have made a difference. I don't necessarily agree with that, but he has the evidence to support that theory. His point was critical of play calling, not White, and he wasn't trying to say they are the same.

Well, I've asked Stat to clarify just this point. Here's what he said:

Toss out the last offensive possession and 88% of the pass attempts were within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. This conservative approach made the quarterback change pointless for the most part. Jeremy Johnson was already completing 84% of his passes without an interception within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to take away from a gutty performance by Sean White, but Johnson could have produced the same results.

I agree that his main point seems to be to decry the conservative play-calling. But one might also interpret him as suggesting that JJ could have done just as well as SW.

I think cole is suggesting that SW did no better than JJ would have done, or at least that he made the same sorts of mistakes. Now, cole's question, as I see it, is why is SW getting a pass when JJ was getting slammed. I'm suggesting two things:

1) SW did in fact play better than JJ, and

2) Expectations were dramatically different, and people are more disappointed in JJ because of higher expectations.

I think someone mentioned it earlier but we also haven't seen much evidence that JJ was improving and we still have some hope that Sean will. Why are we comparing Sean's 1st start to JJ's 5th?

I could give you my answer to that question if you wanted my opinion

[cole256 17,080]

I thought White played very well for his first start as a redshirt Freshman. He showed leadership, toughness, command of the offense, wasn't rattled, ran well and engineered 4 nice drives into the redzone. He did a nice job. But, I don't see any need to have a thread to compare SW to JJ. All it does is cause negative comments to be posted about one or the other.

I think the thread got sidetracked. Cole's initial question was why are folks giving SW a pass when they were piling on JJ for the same things SW did. I think it's due to the different expectation levels. But people got all interested in comparing SW and JJ, so that's where the thread went.

Which is exactly what I said is caused by a thread like this.

I'm not 100% supportive of the execution of the thread; but I'm confident cole meant well when he started it. Not sure whether folks have noticed, but cole has been one of the most supportive (yet still critical) posters of the team. As I read him, cole just wants is to take a more critical look at ourselves (being critical of players, coaches, or the team). Nothing wrong with that motive, in my book.

It's impossible to read cole in any other way than what he posts every 2 seconds. He argues ad nauseum with anyone who suggest that SW performed better than JJ. He does not want discussion of who is better, he wants succession from everyone here that SW was not better than JJ and any statement to the contrary will be attacked and the poster belittled. I applaud your effort to defend someone, but Cole is not being misunderstood. He is on every thread on this topic barking the same exact things and attacking anyone that doesn't agree. No misunderstanding here.

Completely not true, but yes if I state they play the same and you state sw was better then I'm going to say why I felt they were the same and then I'd assume you'd state why you feel sw was better...we're doing the same exact thing.

I find it funny you of all people say this. People called you a troll and said stuff about you being negative and you said you were just giving an opinion and what you see. I guess I'm not saying what you want to hear and now you're doing the same....that's ironic

And the attacks continue. Have never seen anyone call me a troll. I was negative about a lot of things, and most have improved. And , I didn't attack you, I said you aren't misunderstood and provided the pattern of why I believed so. Thanks for proving my point. Carry on

Attacks?? I attacked you? When did I say you attacked me? No credibility,Man really stop talking to me.

Insinuating that others call me a troll when it's not true is just a friendly gesture? Got it. I'd put you on my ignore list but you aggregate so many people into quoting you that it won't help. Let's just agree to disagree. Bygons, etc. moving on.

This is stupid. YOU come talking negative about me as if you knew me or I had a history with you, say I said you attacked me when I didn't, all because you don't agree with me and don't want me to reply when you talk. This is so crazy I would say you have me confused with someone else. Then talk about an ignore feature lol....I've seen your posts but I can't say I've seen you as a must follow type of poster lol. You don't have to ignore me we can continue as it always been....don't say anything to me, I've been damn near oblivious to your presence.

Big man words. What a keyboard badass you are. Seriously, just stop. Im here as an Auburn supporter, not to be a "must follow poster". If that's what you're here for then we know the problem.

Once again I never addressed you EVER. YOU talked about me. Just stop talking to me and we won't talk....that's it. Just stop writing me

[jmcrosson 203]

SW and JJ played the exact type game made the same mistakes. The only difference is that SW is more apt to run but usually that's viewed as a negative for a qb.

I say go with white since he's younger thus more upside and we may as well get the youth movement going at this position as well...But the way many was complaining about EVERY detail of one qb and to not say anything about the same stuff from another qb is funny to me.

I agree, you are confused.and probably are about much in life based on your post. You do get to express your opinion but it is so blatantly ignorant that it does not deserve a counter argument. Your confusion stems from you not having the ability to read body language, pick up on non-verbals or understand the very basics of the game and so we cannot help you. .

I'm a nuclear engineer, you talking about and trying to relate this to life reflects your intellect far more than mine

Nothing I said is related to "love"? Being nuclear engineer will not solve your dilemma and help you with understanding the subtleties of reading people and seeing intangible qualities that can't be solved with an equation.

The fact you still put love in this quote after the typo tells me much about you. Debating isn't your thing, you shouldn't. And you don't know ANYTHING about me to even come to the conclusions you make. If you knew my background then maybe you could have made that little attack work.

But I want get personal on this board. It's pointless, everybody is superman on a CPU, besides me I'm spider man

[cole256 17,080]

Story of my life

[jmcrosson 203]

haha - just thought I'd lighten the mood a bit.

[Weegle777 78]

Thread needs to be locked and revisited after three more games where White starts.

[Weegle777 78]

Or where Sean starts. Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

[cole256 17,080]

Or just stop posting in it...