I'm confused, but sw and jj are the same

[Barnacle 9,107]

Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

About sums it up.

Well, like I said, I'm not convinced they are the same. But Stat also makes a similar claim in his report card thread. Essentially, statistically, SW did no better passing than JJ has done so far.

But I saw what y'all saw -- that SW looked more decisive and more in control. So, I'm asking cole for more support for the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

I think Stats point was that in the plays we called last night, it wouldn't have made a difference. I don't necessarily agree with that, but he has the evidence to support that theory. His point was critical of play calling, not White, and he wasn't trying to say they are the same.

Well, I've asked Stat to clarify just this point. Here's what he said:

Toss out the last offensive possession and 88% of the pass attempts were within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. This conservative approach made the quarterback change pointless for the most part. Jeremy Johnson was already completing 84% of his passes without an interception within 10-yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to take away from a gutty performance by Sean White, but Johnson could have produced the same results.

I agree that his main point seems to be to decry the conservative play-calling. But one might also interpret him as suggesting that JJ could have done just as well as SW.

That's exactly what he was saying, in the plays that were called. There's not a difference when we aren't throwing the ball down field. The difference in the two occurs when we ask them to throw down field.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I don't see cole as saying 'haha I told you so'.

I also think comparing the two is a legit question that the coaches better ask -- who is more likely to help us win? Is SW really better than JJ?

But cole is asking a different question: why did we pile on JJ and give SW a pass for the same sort of performance?

That's a valid question if the performances were comparable.

[TexasTiger 14,303]

I don't see cole as saying 'haha I told you so'.

I also think comparing the two is a legit question that the coaches better ask -- who is more likely to help us win? Is SW really better than JJ?

But cole is asking a different question: why did we pile on JJ and give SW a pass for the same sort of performance?

If you assume their performances were more or less identical, which I don't, JJ's last 3 performances lowered expectations considerably. Let's see how Sean looks after his 5 start.

[Weegle777 78]

After two more games, we will have an honest body of work to compare. After that, if Sean hasn't shown decent improvement then you will have an argument. Until then, this is irrelevant.

[AUbritt 611]

One damn game? The guy has played one game!

True. But maybe you missed the part where cole is in agreement that SW should be the starter from here forward.

He's not slamming SW. He's wondering why SW isn't getting slammed for the same things JJ was.

Again, I think SW played better, and not the same. I also think expectations were much lower for SW. That's my answer to cole's question. I'm waiting to see more evixence to back up the claim that SW and JJ played the same.

[jmcrosson 203]

Actually they aren't even remotely the same. Sean White, when asked to throw it, went through his progressions very well. There were several times everything down field was covered and he went to his last option and we got positive yards out of it. There were also times when absolutely everything was covered and he tucked it and took off running. We never saw any of that with Johnson. I thought Sean looked very comfortable back there and did a nice job. Redzone offense was an issue last year with Marshall at QB and it hasn't been fixed. I think that's a play calling issue. But to think White and Johnson are the same just isn't accurate.

Holy smokes...I agree with everything WarTiger just said. Someone jot down the date. Points well made.

[Weegle777 78]

One damn game? The guy has played one game!

True. But maybe you missed the part where cole is in agreement that SW should be the starter from here forward.

He's not slamming SW. He's wondering why SW isn't getting slammed for the same things JJ was.

Again, I think SW played better, and not the same. I also think expectations were much lower for SW. That's my answer to cole's question. I'm waiting to see more evixence to back up the claim that SW and JJ played the same.

Sean is a redshirt freshman playing his first game against a western division team. Jeremy is a junior. You honestly don't see why there isn't a comparison yet?

[OnthePlains 2,014]

One damn game? The guy has played one game!

True. But maybe you missed the part where cole is in agreement that SW should be the starter from here forward.

He's not slamming SW. He's wondering why SW isn't getting slammed for the same things JJ was.

Again, I think SW played better, and not the same. I also think expectations were much lower for SW. That's my answer to cole's question. I'm waiting to see more evixence to back up the claim that SW and JJ played the same.

Sean is a redshirt freshman playing his first game against a western division team. Jeremy is a junior. You honestly don't see why there isn't a comparison yet?

This

[AUbritt 611]

One damn game? The guy has played one game!

True. But maybe you missed the part where cole is in agreement that SW should be the starter from here forward.

He's not slamming SW. He's wondering why SW isn't getting slammed for the same things JJ was.

Again, I think SW played better, and not the same. I also think expectations were much lower for SW. That's my answer to cole's question. I'm waiting to see more evixence to back up the claim that SW and JJ played the same.

Sean is a redshirt freshman playing his first game against a western division team. Jeremy is a junior. You honestly don't see why there isn't a comparison yet?

I do see, which is why I suggested that one answer to cole's question is the dramatically different expectations we have/had for the two players.

We expected much more out of JJ than we got.

We didn't expect a whole lot out of SW, given his youth/inexperience and so on.

So, even if the performances were the same, I'd expect less criticism of SW.

I'm still interested to see whether cole can support the claim that JJ and SW are the same.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

The deep pass was taken away due to the deep safeties. I don't think Sean was scared as much as he didn't have that option due to the safeties playing so deep.

[Weegle777 78]

He can't support that argument because he doesn't have enough evidence yet.

[80Tiger 907]

Agreed with it's just one game, but there was some critics of JJ after one game. And also agree expextations between JJ and SW are way different.

Again these are opinions but did not see a lot of difference. SW took way to long in the pocket on some plays and should have never taken a sack on the last drive. He could have easily thrown the ball away. And the biggest stat to me is we did not score a TD

SW should get the nod for next week.

[AUbritt 611]

He can't support that argument because he doesn't have enough evidence yet.

Fair point, Weegs.

[FoundationEagle 637]

Point to consider. JJ played quite a few snaps last year. He has also played 3 full games this year. If anyone here really believes that a RS freshman taking his first ever college snap is equal to JJ after the amount of time JJ has had to prepare, then obviously we should go with the guy that played his first ever game on the same level as the almost veteran, right? If SW's starting point is the same as JJs level a year further in the system and a bunch more play time....it seems a foregone conclusion which one has the higher ceiling. Sw is 4 games in to his first season not on the scout team and already shows leadership and good decision making as well as arm talent.

Last year a lot of people suggested that NM be benched and JJ put in to take his lumps so we would be better this year. Does no one think the same thing this year? SW is a leader on and off the field and plays with a determination that JJ is currently lacking. With just a serviceable Oline last night, we win by double digits. I think SW has the higher ceiling at this point and should take his lumps now and lead us to a natty next year. JMO

[Weegle777 78]

I didn't have an issue with how Jeremy played in the Louisville game. He played well. Louisville didn't make it close until the fourth quarter.

[tiger88 934]

One thing I will say about jj is for the first time in a long time he looked like he wanted to get back in the game.

Why would we be disappointed in sean white for last nights game? 1st start for a rs freshman. One bonehead play. He looked relatively calm and composed and led the team up and fown the field hitting key passes on most drives, although one drive was mostly runs. The jury is still out on him. MSUs D is tough. They shut down LSU after an early flurry of points. Hopefully, he will light it up more in the future as he settles in.

JJ loved throwing to thr other team. He had serious issues reading defenses. Lets not pretend all his picks were on deep throws and he had 3-4 drops including a certain pick 6 on short routes. He looked jittery on hand off and short passes at times like he was lobbing a hand grenade. He also had some great throws and plays. We may need him again and hopefully his time on the bench helps him grow. Watching SW operate coolly as a rs fresh may calm him down. However, some qbs never outgrow the throwing it to the other team thing.

[AUbritt 611]

The deep pass was taken away due to the deep safeties. I don't think Sean was scared as much as he didn't have that option due to the safeties playing so deep.

It's true that the defense was set up to deny us the deep pass, and I agree that SW wasn't scared to throw it deep, in principle.

This makes me think about some of the criticisms of the playcalling, too, though.

I mean, you want to force Miss State to bring one of those safeties down into the box to open up the passing game. So, you run the ball more. We did that. But Miss State was still able to play with two high safeties for almost all of the game. So, what gives?

We didn't convert in the redzone. They could play essentially a 'prevent' D all night, because they never broke. And we didn't do enough to get them to change their strategy.

[tiger88 934]

I didn't have an issue with how Jeremy played in the Louisville game. He played well. Louisville didn't make it close until the fourth quarter.

The only issue I had was the three int's thrown directly to their guys. The last one was as bad as ints get. It left a bad taste in my mouth to say the least.

[Barnacle 9,107]

The deep pass was taken away due to the deep safeties. I don't think Sean was scared as much as he didn't have that option due to the safeties playing so deep.

Plenty of one on one opportunities that we did not take.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

Point to consider. JJ played quite a few snaps last year. He has also played 3 full games this year. If anyone here really believes that a RS freshman taking his first ever college snap is equal to JJ after the amount of time JJ has had to prepare, then obviously we should go with the guy that played his first ever game on the same level as the almost veteran, right? If SW's starting point is the same as JJs level a year further in the system and a bunch more play time....it seems a foregone conclusion which one has the higher ceiling. Sw is 4 games in to his first season not on the scout team and already shows leadership and good decision making as well as arm talent.

Last year a lot of people suggested that NM be benched and JJ put in to take his lumps so we would be better this year. Does no one think the same thing this year? SW is a leader on and off the field and plays with a determination that JJ is currently lacking. With just a serviceable Oline last night, we win by double digits. I think SW has the higher ceiling at this point and should take his lumps now and lead us to a natty next year. JMO

I hope I am dead wrong on this but I am starting to get the feeling that there are some here who believe there is an ulterior motive from some others of us for wanting White to play instead of JJ....again, I truly hope I am dead wrong but it seems like some are wanting to imply something more nefarious about why we would criticize JJ and not White.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

The deep pass was taken away due to the deep safeties. I don't think Sean was scared as much as he didn't have that option due to the safeties playing so deep.

Well that plus he had no time to throw the ball on deep passes before MSU had him eating grass.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,668]

Point to consider. JJ played quite a few snaps last year. He has also played 3 full games this year. If anyone here really believes that a RS freshman taking his first ever college snap is equal to JJ after the amount of time JJ has had to prepare, then obviously we should go with the guy that played his first ever game on the same level as the almost veteran, right? If SW's starting point is the same as JJs level a year further in the system and a bunch more play time....it seems a foregone conclusion which one has the higher ceiling. Sw is 4 games in to his first season not on the scout team and already shows leadership and good decision making as well as arm talent.

Last year a lot of people suggested that NM be benched and JJ put in to take his lumps so we would be better this year. Does no one think the same thing this year? SW is a leader on and off the field and plays with a determination that JJ is currently lacking. With just a serviceable Oline last night, we win by double digits. I think SW has the higher ceiling at this point and should take his lumps now and lead us to a natty next year. JMO

I hope I am dead wrong on this but I am starting to get the feeling that there are some here who believe there is an ulterior motive from some others of us for wanting White to play instead of JJ....again, I truly hope I am dead wrong but it seems like some are wanting to imply something more nefarious about why we would criticize JJ and not White.

Certainly reads that way to me at times. And I'm not going to touch that topic if it's brought into the spotlight.

[wdefromtx 3,611]

I thought the offense was significantly better with SW. Play calling was suspect at best. That's on Gus though. He just needs to keep doing what works and quit changing stuff up especially when you got a rhythm going.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,668]

I thought the offense was significantly better with SW. Play calling was suspect at best. That's on Gus though. He just needs to keep doing what works and quit changing stuff up especially when you got a rhythm going.

Play calling was flat out bad.

[tiger88 934]

Point to consider. JJ played quite a few snaps last year. He has also played 3 full games this year. If anyone here really believes that a RS freshman taking his first ever college snap is equal to JJ after the amount of time JJ has had to prepare, then obviously we should go with the guy that played his first ever game on the same level as the almost veteran, right? If SW's starting point is the same as JJs level a year further in the system and a bunch more play time....it seems a foregone conclusion which one has the higher ceiling. Sw is 4 games in to his first season not on the scout team and already shows leadership and good decision making as well as arm talent.

Last year a lot of people suggested that NM be benched and JJ put in to take his lumps so we would be better this year. Does no one think the same thing this year? SW is a leader on and off the field and plays with a determination that JJ is currently lacking. With just a serviceable Oline last night, we win by double digits. I think SW has the higher ceiling at this point and should take his lumps now and lead us to a natty next year. JMO

I hope I am dead wrong on this but I am starting to get the feeling that there are some here who believe there is an ulterior motive from some others of us for wanting White to play instead of JJ....again, I truly hope I am dead wrong but it seems like some are wanting to imply something more nefarious about why we would criticize JJ and not White.

Certainly reads that way to me at times. And I'm not going to touch that topic if it's brought into the spotlight.

There will always be that element (and honestly there are probanbly a few bozos on each side of the debate that feel that way). Damn the facts, I have an agenda tattoed on my brain that will never go away. Forgot the fact that pretty much the entire AU world was in Jeremy's camp to start the year.