JF3 in Netflix Documentary- airing 7/29

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

On 7/31/2016 at 11:10 AM, austudnt23 said:

Oh JF3 is definitely faster than NM. I also think he is a better runner being vision etc. 

Faster runner but does he have the instincts when a play breaks down, good decision making skills and calm demeanor similar to NM. NM was great athletically for sure but what made NM really good IMO are some of the things that don't show up on the stat sheet that you need from your QB. I'm interested in seeing if JF3 has those things or if a healthy SW possesses those things as well. 

[austudnt23 1,432]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

While a dual-threat QB would be ideal for our O, we don't have one that is ready on the roster. We have a runner and we have a passer. Woody might be the only dual guy we have right now and he needs to RS.  Sean runs as well as JF3 passes.

Maybe SW runs as good as JF3 passes, but the for our offense it's better to have a great runner who might have a little trouble throwing the football rather than a good passer who can run a little. I also definitely think JF3 passing ability would hurt a defense alot more than SW running.

[austudnt23 1,432]

16 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Faster runner but does he have the instincts when a play breaks down, good decision making skills and calm demeanor similar to NM. NM was great athletically for sure but what made NM really good IMO are some of the things that don't show up on the stat sheet that you need from your QB. I'm interested in seeing if JF3 has those things or if a healthy SW possesses those things as well. 

You are correct NM was great running the football. I actually think JF3 is a better runner than NM.  We shall see if he has the instincts that NM had. NM was a magician with the read and knowing when to hand off or run. That's something that it will be very hard for JF3 to be as good as Nick was at.  Also NM had ice water in his veins and didn't ever get rattled or lose his composure. I don't know if JF3 possesses that and we will not find out until he gets in a pressure situation. I am not sure what you are asking about a healthy SW but he does not possess anything close to NM dealing with the running and read option part IMO. SW possesses alot of skill throwing the football and looked pretty calm under pressure during the Arkansas game.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

2 hours ago, keesler said:

I hope Gus doesn't mention one word about the QBs publicly for the next month.  I want him to give vanilla commentary on their performance....total coach speak and not give a clue as to which one will take the reigns.... I hope he never names the starter and makes the whole country wait till the first snap vs CU.

We're going to get that anyway. I know what he said at media day but i don't trust it honestly. Of all years why name a starter now? Our QBs are so different no way i'd name a QB to the public. As long as he and the coaches have figured out the starter sooner rather than later i'm certainly fine with that. Let Clemson use as much time to prepare for SW and JF3. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 hours ago, austudnt23 said:

Also let me say this I have no clue yet who is going to start vs Clemson. I know who the coaches are hoping takes control to be the guy because he gives us the higher ceiling. 

No, you don't know that at all actually.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

39 minutes ago, austudnt23 said:

Maybe SW runs as good as JF3 passes, but the for our offense it's better to have a great runner who might have a little trouble throwing the football rather than a good passer who can run a little. I also definitely think JF3 passing ability would hurt a defense alot more than SW running.

No, it really isn't better. 

[DAG 33,983]

Here we go...

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

38 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I don't think there's any way, if Sean starts, he gets pulled for John if we are behind. I've never met a coach who goes "we're behind, better concentrate on running it".  I could definitely see it the other way around, however... just like the failed attempt against Georgia last year.  You're behind... pull your ground guy and put in the passer.

Why not though? Not trying to say JF3 will be NM 2.0 but 2013 there were some impressive quick running drives. Down 14 - 17 points at halftime is still reasonable time to comeback. Regarding the Clemson game...we're already a heavy underdog. Why not see what JF3 can do if in the first half we're down a good bit and the offense is not showing improvement? I wouldn't be opposed to it for sure but i highly doubt Gus would do it.  

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

47 minutes ago, austudnt23 said:

You are correct NM was great running the football. I actually think JF3 is a better runner than NM.  We shall see if he has the instincts that NM had. NM was a magician with the read and knowing when to hand off or run. That's something that it will be very hard for JF3 to be as good as Nick was at.  Also NM had ice water in his veins and didn't ever get rattled or lose his composure. I don't know if JF3 possesses that and we will not find out until he gets in a pressure situation. I am not sure what you are asking about a healthy SW but he does not possess anything close to NM dealing with the running and read option part IMO. SW possesses alot of skill throwing the football and looked pretty calm under pressure during the Arkansas game.

I was only asking does a health SW possess those similar instincts in regards to his pass efficiency, running a team in big games and key situations. Being that he was hurt a good bit and we didn't get to see him against tougher competition i think the same can be asked about him as well. 

[Altima 200]

Let's hold off proclaiming Pat White's West Virginia offenses as sooo dynamic...  I'm sorry but the defenses in the mid 2000's Big East, couldn't hold a candle to ANY of the 2016 SEC defenses.

just somethin to think about...

[DAG 33,983]

13 minutes ago, Altima said:

Let's hold off proclaiming Pat White's West Virginia offenses as sooo dynamic...  I'm sorry but the defenses in the mid 2000's Big East, couldn't hold a candle to ANY of the 2016 SEC defenses.

just somethin to think about...

 

Impossible to judge between decades. I do know that a pat white led WV team beat UGA in the 2006 sugar bowl, putting up 38 points against them, the most points that they had given up throughout their whole season in a single game.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

My problem with saying, "the offense was incredible in 2013 so let's gear toward that offense again" is that a few pieces are missing. Most importantly, can John run the read as well as Nick? I don't know. He's faster, but is he as deceptive and can he take care of the football? That's one issue.

Second, can this offensive line dominate in the running game? I think that's probably a hard no. There is no mauler on the edges of the OL. Austin Golson is a talented kid, but he's never going to be as physically dominant as Greg Robinson. Dampeer can play, but will he be as good as Dismukes? I doubt it. The OL can absolutely be very, very good, but I'm not convinced that we'll have a dominating run blocking group. If not, the 2013 offense isn't going to reappear no matter how good John is running the ball.

Last thing, we don't know that there is a take-the-top-off-the-defense WR. I don't believe that guy was on the roster in the spring. Kyle Davis could turn into one I guess. If we're banking on a freshman to fill Sammie's role, that's asking an awwwwwful lot. Without that consistent threat though, you can't recreate the 2013 offense. I've already said I don't see the arm strength from John pushing the ball vertically outside the numbers, and that just compounds this issue.

When a team/coaching staff is trying to recreate the good old times, they are often disappointed. Every group is different. Personally, I expect Sean to start. It's just a guess/feel thing. What he did as a passer as a redshirt freshman was underrated, and if you look at him running the read against MSU, you see a guy that can convert first downs. He can be a Bo Wallace/Machine Gun Kelly type of player, and you can win championships with that type of QB. If John can show consistent accuracy in the short/medium range, he'll start. He adds a lot to the run game. If he can't, Sean is going to be the guy, and I believe the offense would be in the upper-half of the SEC with him under center.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

41 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Why not though? Not trying to say JF3 will be NM 2.0 but 2013 there were some impressive quick running drives. Down 14 - 17 points at halftime is still reasonable time to comeback. Regarding the Clemson game...we're already a heavy underdog. Why not see what JF3 can do if in the first half we're down a good bit and the offense is not showing improvement? I wouldn't be opposed to it for sure but i highly doubt Gus would do it.  

Because the ground attack rarely eats up yardage quickly.  Occasionally you'll break a long run, but they aren't common. When you are behind you want quick scoring strikes because the clock is against you. The only way I see a coach swapping for a ground game is if the passing attack is completely ineffective AND the defense is playing lights out.  If you are confident that you can keep the other team out of the end zone, and get the ball back quickly, THEN you can make a come back by running the ball.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

Just now, mcgufcm said:

My problem with saying, "the offense was incredible in 2013 so let's gear toward that offense again" is that a few pieces are missing. Most importantly, can John run the read as well as Nick? I don't know. He's faster, but is he as deceptive and can he take care of the football? That's one issue.

Second, can this offensive line dominate in the running game? I think that's probably a hard no. There is no mauler on the edges of the OL. Austin Golson is a talented kid, but he's never going to be as physically dominant as Greg Robinson. Dampeer can play, but will he be as good as Dismukes? I doubt it. The OL can absolutely be very, very good, but I'm not convinced that we'll have a dominating run blocking group. If not, the 2013 offense isn't going to reappear no matter how good John is running the ball.

Last thing, we don't know that there is a take-the-top-off-the-defense WR. I don't believe that guy was on the roster in the spring. Kyle Davis could turn into one I guess. If we're banking on a freshman to fill Sammie's role, that's asking an awwwwwful lot. Without that consistent threat though, you can't recreate the 2013 offense. I've already said I don't see the arm strength from John pushing the ball vertically outside the numbers, and that just compounds this issue.

When a team/coaching staff is trying to recreate the good old times, they are often disappointed. Every group is different. Personally, I expect Sean to start. It's just a guess/feel thing. What he did as a passer as a redshirt freshman was underrated, and if you look at him running the read against MSU, you see a guy that can convert first downs. He can be a Bo Wallace/Machine Gun Kelly type of player, and you can win championships with that type of QB. If John can show consistent accuracy in the short/medium range, he'll start. He adds a lot to the run game. If he can't, Sean is going to be the guy, and I believe the offense would be in the upper-half of the SEC with him under center.

All good and valid points. I only lean towards the 2013 offense b/c of my lack in faith for us to actually build a good enough passing attach around SW. I REALLY hope Gus shows me otherwise regarding this but I'm not all in love with the read option 2013 b/c i'm sold that JF3 will be a replica of NM. If we trot SW out there and i see much of the same from last year then i'll be full aboard the JF3 read option train. I think JF3 or SW can win us 8 or 9 games. Maybe i'm just a little more sold on the fact that if JF3 can improve his passing his ceiling is higher than SW.

[AUcivE09 582]

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

Impossible to judge between decades. I do know that a pat white led WV team beat UGA in the 2006 sugar bowl, putting up 38 points against them, the most points that they had given up throughout their whole season in a single game.

Do not forget they had Noel Devine lined up next to Pat White. That is still one of the fastest backfields I have ever seen. Obviously the fastest UGA had seen! Now a days the SEC is used to seeing these fast read-option type of offenses.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Because the ground attack rarely eats up yardage quickly.  Occasionally you'll break a long run, but they aren't common. When you are behind you want quick scoring strikes because the clock is against you. The only way I see a coach swapping for a ground game is if the passing attack is completely ineffective AND the defense is playing lights out.  If you are confident that you can keep the other team out of the end zone, and get the ball back quickly, THEN you can make a come back by running the ball.

And I could easily see the Clemson game going this way which is why i don't think it's out of the question. 

[SumterAubie 3,031]

1 hour ago, CCslim said:

 

See this lies the problem with most the forum, you go by what "Others" tell you, instead doing a small amount of research and using your own evaluation skills. Do people really think they they evaluated and decided to offer him based on one JUCO game? He was a QB at Florida State, he was 3rd String as a True Freshman. You can even see him throwing during that game . 

 

He can pass "worth a lick" he is just erratic, which is all lower half( Fundamentals), which was mentioned during the documentary. He has been working on that this summer, what's left is to see where he is now. 

What number is he? 11 or 5. I hope 11 as 11 is very quick, fluid. And made a couple of good throws.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

My problem with saying, "the offense was incredible in 2013 so let's gear toward that offense again" is that a few pieces are missing. Most importantly, can John run the read as well as Nick? I don't know. He's faster, but is he as deceptive and can he take care of the football? That's one issue.

Second, can this offensive line dominate in the running game? I think that's probably a hard no. There is no mauler on the edges of the OL. Austin Golson is a talented kid, but he's never going to be as physically dominant as Greg Robinson. Dampeer can play, but will he be as good as Dismukes? I doubt it. The OL can absolutely be very, very good, but I'm not convinced that we'll have a dominating run blocking group. If not, the 2013 offense isn't going to reappear no matter how good John is running the ball.

Last thing, we don't know that there is a take-the-top-off-the-defense WR. I don't believe that guy was on the roster in the spring. Kyle Davis could turn into one I guess. If we're banking on a freshman to fill Sammie's role, that's asking an awwwwwful lot. Without that consistent threat though, you can't recreate the 2013 offense. I've already said I don't see the arm strength from John pushing the ball vertically outside the numbers, and that just compounds this issue.

When a team/coaching staff is trying to recreate the good old times, they are often disappointed. Every group is different. Personally, I expect Sean to start. It's just a guess/feel thing. What he did as a passer as a redshirt freshman was underrated, and if you look at him running the read against MSU, you see a guy that can convert first downs. He can be a Bo Wallace/Machine Gun Kelly type of player, and you can win championships with that type of QB. If John can show consistent accuracy in the short/medium range, he'll start. He adds a lot to the run game. If he can't, Sean is going to be the guy, and I believe the offense would be in the upper-half of the SEC with him under center.

Great post. We're also missing a Jay Prosch. Cox (and/or Pettway, maybe?) might be a very good blocker and might be a little more dynamic touching the ball, but he is not the athletic guard lined up in the backfield that Prosch was. And I don't know if we'll get the same blocking from the WRs that we got that year. More talent as route runners and pass catchers, quite possibly, but not necessarily the experience or ability to secure the perimeter that group had. Like mcgufcm said, not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Also agree with the assessment of Sean's mobility. He's not a "dual threat" QB, but he can get out of the pocket and make things happen. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

7 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

What number is he? 11 or 5. I hope 11 as 11 is very quick, fluid. And made a couple of good throws.

He is #11... #5 won the Heisman trophy...

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I wouldn't have the same expectations as far as numbers with the 2013 offense (although i'm sure some fans would). My expectations would be an offense that can sustain drives, better execution in the redzone and keeping defenses off balance. If JF3 can improve his passing our offense has shown in the past that having a QB that athletic is simply hard to account for and can possibly hide some deficiencies to a certain extent. 

[SumterAubie 3,031]

9 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

He is #11... #5 won the Heisman trophy...

Thanks. 

[austudnt23 1,432]

1 hour ago, johnnyAU said:

No, it really isn't better. 

OK your right.. maybe u should be our coach lol. I am saying in our offense it is better. We can coach JF3 up to improve his passing, but we can't coach up speed to SW. You either have the speed or you don't. I'm not saying either SW is super slow because he isn't slow but he does not possess the speed to make him any kind of a threat in our offense

[chimesAU 89]

21 minutes ago, SumterAubie said:

What number is he? 11 or 5. I hope 11 as 11 is very quick, fluid. And made a couple of good throws.

So you're hoping that he's not the guy who was drafted #1 overall? 

[austudnt23 1,432]

 NM was a much better and more polished passer when he finished at Auburn from where he began. It was obvious how much NM developed as a passer while at Auburn. He was not that good accuracy wise throwing the football when he arrived at Auburn. He was coached up and became pretty good throwing the football. I think the same could happen for JF3, although he is a little behind where NM was as a passer when he arrived. 

[SumterAubie 3,031]

23 minutes ago, chimesAU said:

So you're hoping that he's not the guy who was drafted #1 overall? 

No, smartass, I just saw a smoother looking runner who completed a couple of passes. I had no idea who 5 was when I posted that.