Ideal QB Situation

[macauburn 6]

Looking at the schedule, it is front loaded and there is a potential for many injuries , so it might be an all hands on deck approach to quarterback,   probably all will get to play.

[DAG 33,982]

1 minute ago, AUwent said:

^ It was a joke, since we seem cursed at QB.

Only at recruiting them from high school. My bad.

[Randman5000 4,228]

On 7/15/2016 at 2:07 PM, 80Tiger said:

I have been suggesting our current QB talent is avg. You mention our two "highly recruited" pocket passers. Lets look at that. According to ESPN recruiting JJ had offers from AU, Ole Miss, AL State, Arky State, Houston, LSU, Memphis, and Purdue. SW had offers from AU, BC, Cincy, Hawaii, Florida Int., Kent State, Miami OH, Toledo, Wake Forest, and WV.

While all admirable schools neither of the lists are earth shattering. JJ had 3 SEC offers and the rest were 2nd tier schools. SW had no SEC offers and no other tier 1 type schools. So lets not get carried away with "highly recruited". They were not. JJ more so than SW. I would imagine that JJ's LSU offer was contingent on who else they signed that year. I believe some schools saw JJ as a potential D1 QB but doesn't look like "everyone" wanted him. SW had no offers from year in/year out contenders except AU. He was a fall back after we missed on a couple of other guys. I am just saying that most schools did not see either of this guys as have to have. I also believe that if you could do trades in college football that no one would be beating AU door down to trade for these guys. My point being is that we need an upgrade at QB. I don't know if JF3 is an upgrade or not but he is here for a reason.

Just to add to this insightful post, Franklin didn't have a great offer list as well....

I did just watch his highlights again however, and he seems like a legit running threat in actual passing situations. Sometimes people only mention the wildcat or running plays..if Sean can't win it, because I think he is the only one who can show he can toss it like he's been playing quarterback for awhile, then I hope a running quarterback helps Gus open up his offense once again. 

[80Tiger 899]

23 hours ago, Barnacle said:

Never have I seen anyone ever blame Jeremy Johnson's poor play on the receivers. And I don't think I've seen people place the sole burden of Sean White's play on the receivers either. Sometimes I can't tell who you are talking about with quotes like the one above. I think people like me are only arguing to the "Sean White only threw one touchdown pass and is therefore a bad quarterback" crowd to look at last season in its aggregate. For the record, I definitely do not include you in that crowd, Cole. To the others, at least consider how other positions and circumstances affected the offense as a whole, including the quarterback position. Sean deserves the full responsibility for mental errors that he made last season, just as much as Jeremy deserves for his mental errors. But, in my opinion nothing was going to save Jeremy from himself last year. I don't know that Michael Irvin could have helped Jeremy last year. My point is, Sean would have benefited more from better circumstances than Jeremy would have. That's really what it comes down to. Sean's youth and mental errors limited him last year. Jeremy's straight up prevented him from playing well at all. If we had two viable quarterbacks returning from last season, I would comment all day long about how they are going to need better support this year/could have benefited from more support last year. The problem is, I don't think Jeremy is viable in the least. As a result, when I talk about offensive deficiencies outside of the quarterback position, I generally talk about them in the context of Sean - because he's the only viable returning quarterback. 

Perfect example. Again, one of these quarterbacks is battling for the starting job. The other is languishing as a 3rd string (according to those who know more than I do). If we looked at that statistic alone, it would be difficult for anyone to justify that disparity. You can't just point to the stats and say, "See! They both suck. Why does everyone only talk about how much Jeremy sucks, but not Sean!?" The answer is because one is a viable option at quarterback. The other is a total liability. You won't find the reason why that is in the statistic you posted. 

I'm not saying Sean is the answer. I just don't have any reason to talk about our offense in the context Jeremy Johnson, who probably won't see a snap as the starting quarterback. So, if I talk about what could have helped Sean last year or what could help him this year, its because he's the one returning guy who actually would be affected by it. 

The reason for looking at the stats of last years performance is to show there is not any real difference between SW and JJ. Once you start ignoring the tangibles for the intangibles then you are fooling yourself. IMO the coaches certainly know that and JJ has as much opportunity to win the job as SW. Neither were improving as the year went on. In fact our QB play was a hinderance in the bowl game. We won because of the running game and defense. My contention is that if either of the last years guys win the job, we have a repeat of last year. 

[AUwent 3,748]

^ He won't be ready this year but WB had a nice offer list. To be fair, JJ's offer list was pretty similar in quality to Nick's. Regardless, we need to spend this season and next spring getting Barrett ready.

[WarTiger 3,901]

22 hours ago, macauburn said:

Looking at the schedule, it is front loaded and there is a potential for many injuries , so it might be an all hands on deck approach to quarterback,   probably all will get to play.

I see this posted from time to time and it just makes no sense.  A player can get injured in any game they participate.  The level of competition is totally irrelevant to injuries.

[Barnacle 9,064]

25 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

The reason for looking at the stats of last years performance is to show there is not any real difference between SW and JJ. Once you start ignoring the tangibles for the intangibles then you are fooling yourself. IMO the coaches certainly know that and JJ has as much opportunity to win the job as SW. Neither were improving as the year went on. In fact our QB play was a hinderance in the bowl game. We won because of the running game and defense. My contention is that if either of the last years guys win the job, we have a repeat of last year. 

So we should just ignore the intangibles? Is that your argument? Your logic cuts both ways, and my point has always been that you have to consider both. 

From what insiders have posted on this board, JJ is a distant third in the quarterback battle. 

[doc4aday 1,887]

I have a ton of faith in JFIII and think he will come out smoking from game 1 throughout the season. There is far more to this young man than most folks realize. All of this talk about Jumbo the Dumbo Fisher not being able to get JFIII to perform has little merit. I think JFIII will prove to be a far better QB than most folks realize. The season will be a good one folks so lets just sit back and watch it unfold to all of our delight.

[DAG 33,982]

5 hours ago, Randman5000 said:

Just to add to this insightful post, Franklin didn't have a great offer list as well....

I did just watch his highlights again however, and he seems like a legit running threat in actual passing situations. Sometimes people only mention the wildcat or running plays..if Sean can't win it, because I think he is the only one who can show he can toss it like he's been playing quarterback for awhile, then I hope a running quarterback helps Gus open up his offense once again. 

2

Nobody ever claimed that JF3 was an elite qb, unlike a few posters on here who like to throw that out about SW. He is an athlete playing QB, alas Nick Marshall. 

[AUcivE09 582]

May as well throw out my 0.02 cents.

1) In retrospect - AUJeff has the right idea

2) BEST case - JJ gets his head on. By far the best physical specimen.

3) Best REALISTIC case - JF3 and SW both do really well in the fall and we end up with a very capable backup no matter who wins the job. I do think if SW wins the job we see more of a 2QB offense - which is honestly why I hope JF3 wins it outright even if it stands the chance of hurting our recruiting.

4) Going forward Best case - that guy committed to uat flips to the good guys. Still cant believe he picked the tide for more reasons than its just bama. Fully expected him to stay on the west coast.

[80Tiger 899]

12 hours ago, Barnacle said:

So we should just ignore the intangibles? Is that your argument? Your logic cuts both ways, and my point has always been that you have to consider both. 

From what insiders have posted on this board, JJ is a distant third in the quarterback battle. 

Didn't say that in the least. Just said you can't ignore the tangibles. I would like to hear from your perspective which tangibles and intangibles make SW the better between he and JJ. My take is that is there not that much difference. I take most of the insiders stuff with a grain of salt. I have only seen one guy on here say that he has seen a practice or 2. JJ very well may be completely out of the race. But last years performance and this years A Day hasn't  shown any separation between any of them.

[Barnacle 9,064]

22 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

Didn't say that in the least. Just said you can't ignore the tangibles. I would like to hear from your perspective which tangibles and intangibles make SW the better between he and JJ. My take is that is there not that much difference. I take most of the insiders stuff with a grain of salt. I have only seen one guy on here say that he has seen a practice or 2. JJ very well may be completely out of the race. But last years performance and this years A Day hasn't  shown any separation between any of them.

You are more than welcome to go and read some of my other posts, but there is no use rehashing a discussion that's been held a million times over on this board. If there is no separation in JJ and SW in your mind, then that's your opinion. No use arguing about it. Taking everything together I'm of the opinion that SW is a much better option. 

[80Tiger 899]

17 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

You are more than welcome to go and read some of my other posts, but there is no use rehashing a discussion that's been held a million times over on this board. If there is no separation in JJ and SW in your mind, then that's your opinion. No use arguing about it. Taking everything together I'm of the opinion that SW is a much better option. 

Ok. Fair enough. That's what the board is about. Opinions. If SW starts I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, 80Tiger said:

Didn't say that in the least. Just said you can't ignore the tangibles. I would like to hear from your perspective which tangibles and intangibles make SW the better between he and JJ. My take is that is there not that much difference. I take most of the insiders stuff with a grain of salt. I have only seen one guy on here say that he has seen a practice or 2. JJ very well may be completely out of the race. But last years performance and this years A Day hasn't  shown any separation between any of them.

This isn't an exact response to your question, but here's an opinion that is considered pretty valuable around here weighing in on it. You seem to refuse to acknowledge that quarterbacks can be affected by factors beyond their control. Well, here are some "tangibles" suggesting they can:

Quote

Auburn never had the opportunity to combine their best "first down" combination of QB-RB in 2015. Jovon Robinson and Sean White teamed up only once as the starters during the regular season (Ole Miss) and Sean White was nowhere close to being healthy. Despite his health issues, Auburn did average 6.8 yards per play on first down against the Rebels. During the first 3 games of the regular season, Auburn averaged 6.5 yards per pass attempt on first down with Johnson as the starting QB. During Sean White's 5 starts during the regular season, Auburn averaged 11.1 yards per pass attempt on first down. (Sean White was No. 8 nationally in producing 1st downs, throwing on first down during 2015.) When Jeremy Johnson returned to start the last 4 games of the regular season, the Tigers averaged 6.7 yards per pass attempt on first down. Had Sean White and Jovon Robinson started the season and remained healthy, the 2015 Auburn offense would have likely grown into a more consistent entity, thriving from their success on first down.

 

[80Tiger 899]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This isn't an exact response to your question, but here's an opinion that is considered pretty valuable around here weighing in on it. You seem to refuse to acknowledge that quarterbacks can be affected by factors beyond their control. Well, here are some "tangibles" suggesting they can:

 

That is a tangible and a good one. I have also mentioned that SW YPA is higher than JJ which is a good tangible. He throws the ball down the field. That is a good tangible. I get it. I have never said he did not have some good traits. Then there are some tangibles that are not good, such as overall QB rating, and percentage completions and lack of TD productions.  And yes QB can be affected by things beyond their control. That has happened to all QB's. But there is a perception on this board that he is head and shoulders above JJ and to me I cannot find very much to suggest he is. Yes, he was better that JJ on first down. What about 2nd and 3rd downs? I have no idea, but 2nd and 3rd downs are part of the game also. It is great to look at thing in minutia. It does tell you a lot. But you have to look at the total. You can be great on 1st down but if you stink on 2nd and 3rd down, then you still have a problem. Here is a nice stat. During AU first 3 games we went 2 and 1. During the next 5 we went 2 and 3. Would those have been different if JJ had started all games or SW started all games? Nobody knows.

[McLoofus 35,182]

28 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

But there is a perception on this board that he is head and shoulders above JJ and to me I cannot find very much to suggest he is. 

That's a valid and defensible argument, and honestly it's not something I've argued against. I *think* Sean White is better than Jeremy, but that's purely based on eye test and I can't ask anybody to see what I see.

Your argument that I do vehemently disagree with is the notion that it doesn't matter that Sean had never touched a football in a college football game before he started against MSU and that our offense is going to be exactly the same this year as it was last if one of those guys starts. To say that is to ignore a lot. 

Quote

Here is a nice stat. During AU first 3 games we went 2 and 1. During the next 5 we went 2 and 3. Would those have been different if JJ had started all games or SW started all games? Nobody knows.

Again, trying to argue that Sean is much better than Jeremy isn't what I'm here for... but I'm always going to argue logic. That's a nice stat? Are you trying to make an apples to apples comparison between what a somewhat experienced junior did* and what a freshman who'd never taken a college snap did**? 

*Against a bad Louisville team, an FCS team against whom he was lucky not to lose at home and one decent SEC team

**Against 4 SEC teams and San Jose State, the last couple of which he was injured

 

[kd4au 1,145]

Here is my 2 cents and it is not even worth that much, ha ha.If all three Qb's are EQUAL, I would go SW because he has more years left to play and I would hope he could continue improving with more game experience.But I hope one will separate from the others and be a winning QB for us and not have to use a two QB system, I don't care  who it is.

[DAG 33,982]

I would love to see how SW could handle a UGA, LSU or Alabama defense. As much as I could gripe about JJ, He did face some serious defensive caliber foes. Until SW does that, I am forever cautiously optimistic of his abilities. Ole miss was in the bottom half of SEC defenses, btw. Also, I like how Louisville is a bad football team lol. Beat as many SEC teams as we did. 

[AUwent 3,748]

^The same ones too. They got a lot better as the year went on, and I think they pose a legitimate threat to FSU and Clemson. I'm not sure if they will beat either, but I think they will at least come very close to beating both.

Also, I'm fairly confident a healthy SW would've beaten Georgia (and still have beaten A&M).

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, AUwent said:

^The same ones too. They got a lot better as the year went on, and I think they pose a legitimate threat to FSU and Clemson. I'm not sure if they will beat either, but I think they will at least come very close to beating both.

 

True, Almost beat Clemson last year.

[AUcivE09 582]

We caught Louisville at a great time last year.....game 1

I can only hope that is the case this season!

[Tiger 8,825]

SW didn't play the toughest competition, that is for sure. But he also didn't have the luxury of playing an FCS school either. But while JJ played tougher comp, he also was a key reason as to why we almost had the most embarrassing loss in school history. So while he didn't look good against good competition, he certainly didn't look good in a game where the 2nd and 3rd stringers should've been getting experience-reps for the last 30 minutes of game time. What does this mean?

 

 

Nobody knows lol

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I don't think JJ's issues can be attributed to the caliber D we were facing. 

[DAG 33,982]

27 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

I don't think JJ's issues can be attributed to the caliber D we were facing. 

That is the truth

[cole256 17,065]

I don't agree with that at all, who can scrub even say that? To constantly make excuses for sw but just say I don't think it would matter with jj is bull. Another thing jj started early in the season while the o line play was miserable. Then while people talked dropped passes, what nobody watched the first two games? Everything was going fine against Louisville until Drago whiffed that block and that td had to come back then Carl went out and without him and Davis being the corner he is now we had a suspect D after a blazing start. And jj wasn't good but everybody was quick to say well Texas a&m he didn't have to do this and that and didn't we play somebody like Idaho? Whoever it was everybody was like it's just Idaho.

 

And I argue that particular fcs school led by a qb that we wanted to come here and start, and who's wr's made our db's reevaluate their positions is better or at least close too Kentucky and San Jose st. I mean they are still an fcs school but let's not try to act like they couldn't beat any D1 schools and they were typical

Telling thing is same mistakes jj makes were the same mistakes sw made at the END of the season against an inferior team that we bowl prepped for. That's why I said very early you better look at the qb coaching. But that weak part of the schedule tricked some of you.