Naming a Starting QB at Auburn

[AUIH1 1,515]

40 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I've actually been told on here that Gus preferred white over Watson. That's when I knew this had went too far....But

Whomever told you that smokes orange and blue ganja daily.  Sounds like the typical sour grapes "we didn't want him anyway" or "I have seen him play and he really is not that good" that is posted at least once every recruiting cycle when a player turns us down.

wde

[homersapien 11,393]

3 hours ago, willieguns said:

it appears that everyone is Team White except a few of us.  Honestly I think we are screwed with White and some you wont forgive JJ for last season.  You seem to forget that white was just as bad as JJ was in the bowl game (Let me guess he was injured)  at that point in the season nobody is 100% healthy.  White may be a good passer but he's not a fit in the Malzan offense.  Whether any of you want to admit it Malzan would prefer a stable of running QB's all of his top choices are dual threats.  Malzan and Chip Kelly are the same in terms of mindset and offensive perspective.  Sam Bradford as solid as he is, was not a fit in Chip Kelly offense just as much as white is unless he is willing to take some hits and run at least 10 times per game.  What was our signature win last year and who was the quarter back, I would say TAMU?   Please don't give me the chris todd reference cause we went 3-5 in SEC play.  We cant keep rotating QB's in the redzone because that is when sean white weaknesses are exposed.  we also can't keep wearing the RB's down like we did to Peyton last year by saying we are just gonna run it.  FG's will lose games for you, give me a guy that can run the entire malzan offense and we build around him.  Not someone who will never run the ball on the read option that we have ran for years with success.  WDE

If Malzahn is signing players that don't fit into his "system", then he's way over-paid.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

I think that it stands to be said, that a lot of the people who say that Auburn requires a DT or at least a runner are partially and moreso correct. Yes AU can somewhat be in good shape with a pocket passer with decent mobility, but when you look at the offensive skeleton of the Wing T. Most of it's plays are made to be quick developing and quick hitting. It's about split second decisions, as is belied by the nature of the misdirection that takes place pre-snap and is a large focal point of the offense. Even the QB reads that we run require quickness. That being said, a DT QB on passes basically gives a sort of built in boon to the quick hitting nature of the offense. Being, that if the shorter routes that are used to nickel and dime the defense and establish tempo aren't available, then they take a peek to the more vertical routes. If those aren't available, then they can immediately take off rather than having to wait for someone to get open. We see the necessity for this because if you look at our offensive line, we utilize a lot of aggressive short drops and slide protection rather than mostly 90s pass sets and things that are characterized by most of your "Pro-Style" and "Full on West Coast" offenses. Also the offensive linemen are smaller and quicker and the steps are quicker too. All this leads to the need to get the ball out quickly and cause as much confusion and let these small fast offensive linemen get downfield afterwards and "Pick up trash" as our coaches used to call it on runs and short passes. 

The offense and tempo are designed to cause chaos and havoc due to speed and little duration for the defense to react. If you were going to run a read option, you're trying to play with the end and freeze that rush end on the backside for a SPLIT second because he has to account for the athleticism of the QB and take a second to respect that. That means that the ball needs to be gone fast, or you need to have a SUPER fast QB that can suck him in and then out-flank him. If neither of these happen, the end wont instinctively slow down and will attack the Mesh point UNBLOCKED because he doesn't have to respect the QB's speed and prepare to take a REALLY GOOD angle. In addition, when you look at the run that happens off of the read option should the ball be given to the RB, it's usually an off tackle run, which while that requires a little setup, is typically a FAST hitting run requiring your smaller offensive linemen to reach whoever they need to allow that RB to get to the edge and or have a cutback lane. This is all setup by the pre-snap window dressing which slows a defense down because they have to make coverage adjustments, as well as having defenders be wary of the speedy QB. Without that, you're pretty much one dimensional because your greatest advantage is gone. DT QBs possess a sort of defensive mechanism in their head telling them to trust their legs, which gives an EXTRA option to a play regardless, and that extra option is something that teams ALWAYS have to plan for in addition to their coverage shells and line stunts. Adding that to a player's head on defense will make them play a lot slower, than if they didn't have to worry about it. Rather than worrying about whether they get themselves out of angle for a running QB, they can rush, cover, and stunt however they need. 

There is a reason why teams playing against teams with a speedy QB will usually take a scout team RB and make him play QB for the main defense if they don't have a speed guy at QB.

Just now, homersapien said:

If Malzahn is signing players that don't fit into his "system", then he's way over-paid.

Not necessarily, it's more of a, symptom of the whole "Take the best player available and try to mold him" culture of college football. We see tons of teams do this, from Alabama (Who is the most notorious for it historically.) to LSU to Florida etc. Coaches know that if they can get someone who has one piece that you can't find in anyone else, then should their first option be gone, they'll simply take that player on as a project and try to develop them into the player they want by installing those parts they need. That's not to say that it can't be done, but not always does it workout as they plan. Auburn unfortunately doesn't have the recruiting power of some of these other schools to simply say, "We're going to take our grade A guys, and then take the projects and let whoever doesn't pan out leave." That teams like Bama and others do because of press and clout.

[Woodstock Tiger 131]

1 hour ago, auskip07 said:

i hesitate to even mention that he would play JF3 in the first play because football being a game of momentum  I look back at the Alabama game of 2014  the first play roc thomas doesnt catch the lateral/backward pass completely and its ruled a fumble and alabama recovers in their redzone on the 1st play of the game.  high risk high reward type of move that i feel has back fired on us before.  

To this day, IMO, that remains one of THE most head scratching personnel calls in Gus' career to date.  Total game changer.  Why, oh why, when you have seasoned veterans standing on the sideline who have proven themselves capable, would you put in a freshman (a freshman who had not started a game that season) to start that particular game, ESPECIALLY deep in AU territory?  Not only does he drop the ball, he doesn't make much effort to pounce on the drop.  DOH!  Given he was a freshman, it's understandable mistakes would happen.....which is specifically why Roc should not have been in there at that particular point in time.  But I'm not still upset about it.  No sir.  Sure, you would hear me screaming about it in my sleep some nights for about the first year after that happened, "WHY, Gus??  WHYYYY?!!!"  But it's all good now.  I've let it go. Yes sir.  No problems here. Except that twitch above my eye whenever it gets brought up (says Woodstock Tiger, as his eye begins twitching uncontrollably).        

[JJB74 77]

I find it funny that a lot of people in here think Gus can't coach but I bet you loved him in 2010 and 2013

he didn't forget how to coach or he didn't forget how to properly evaluate his QB's over night 

he's been coaching a long time 

how many guys on this forum have been a coach at the college level and have coached in the sec 

have any of y'all coached in or won a national championship game 

we were playing for the national championship 2 times in 4 years 

have we ever done that before 

give him some credit, he will pick the right QB for Auburn to win 

[steeleagle 2,945]

33 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It read pretty clearly that he was referring to whoever the starting QB is. 

And i know that SW can run the ball. He doesn't have lead feet like Todd or others who started under GM. He has quickness and good footwork.

Now SW does not have the experience to run the zone read, but he can effectively run the ball to keep the defenses thinking.

It's a matter of how much, since he is not the strong type QB like a JJ or the shifty running QB like Marshall.

 

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 minute ago, JJB74 said:

I find it funny that a lot of people in here think Gus can't coach but I bet you loved him in 2010 and 2013

he didn't forget how to coach or he didn't forget how to properly evaluate his QB's over night 

he's been coaching a long time 

how many guys on this forum have been a coach at the college level and have coached in the sec 

have any of y'all coached in or won a national championship game 

we were playing for the national championship 2 times in 4 years 

have we ever done that before 

give him some credit, he will pick the right QB for Auburn to win 

 

It's not about a Coach being unable to coach... It's about a coach not evolving their game or developing what they used originally. In conferences and games, other coaches will end up catching on to what you're doing and keying in on it. They have seasons to think up strategies and ways to counter what a coach brings to the table. Not to mention, you've got to be able to evolve and mold your game to your personnel. We saw this with the advent of Collin Kaepernick and the 49ers in his first few seasons, RGIII and the modified read option coming to the NFL with Washington, Auburn in 2010 was basically the coming of what people love to call the HUNH, it just so happened that we had the perfect run-pass balance in addition a DANGEROUS QB that had to be respected and provided credible threat. It was basically a perfect "Coming Out Party" for the style of offense. And not to mention, the defense was MORE THAN CAPABLE. 2013 was no different. The thing is, when you don't end up with the spectacular pieces that you used to have, you HAVE to evolve your game and strategy to fit those who you do have, because other coaches are DEFINITELY watching film and evolving their defenses to stop and counter you. 

[Piketiger1990 173]

30 minutes ago, Woodstock Tiger said:

To this day, IMO, that remains one of THE most head scratching personnel calls in Gus' career to date.  Total game changer.  Why, oh why, when you have seasoned veterans standing on the sideline who have proven themselves capable, would you put in a freshman (a freshman who had not started a game that season) to start that particular game, ESPECIALLY deep in AU territory?  Not only does he drop the ball, he doesn't make much effort to pounce on the drop.  DOH!  Given he was a freshman, it's understandable mistakes would happen.....which is specifically why Roc should not have been in there at that particular point in time.  But I'm not still upset about it.  No sir.  Sure, you would hear me screaming about it in my sleep some nights for about the first year after that happened, "WHY, Gus??  WHYYYY?!!!"  But it's all good now.  I've let it go. Yes sir.  No problems here. Except that twitch above my eye whenever it gets brought up (says Woodstock Tiger, as his eye begins twitching uncontrollably).        

I can imagine that was a recruiting promise. Only rationale reason I can come up with.

[TigerV6 9]

4 minutes ago, Piketiger1990 said:

I can imagine that was a recruiting promise. Only rationale reason I can come up with.

Exactly right, it was a promise when recruited that he would get the first carry in the IB.

[austudnt23 1,432]

58 minutes ago, AUIH1 said:

Whomever told you that smokes orange and blue ganja daily.  Sounds like the typical sour grapes "we didn't want him anyway" or "I have seen him play and he really is not that good" that is posted at least once every recruiting cycle when a player turns us down.

wde

Watson was the top player on our board. Then it was Brandon Harris and after we missed on both of them we offered SW late in the process.

[chimesAU 89]

27 minutes ago, JJB74 said:

I find it funny that a lot of people in here think Gus can't coach but I bet you loved him in 2010 and 2013

he didn't forget how to coach or he didn't forget how to properly evaluate his QB's over night 

he's been coaching a long time 

how many guys on this forum have been a coach at the college level and have coached in the sec 

have any of y'all coached in or won a national championship game 

we were playing for the national championship 2 times in 4 years 

have we ever done that before 

give him some credit, he will pick the right QB for Auburn to win 

?

[AUIH1 1,515]

1 minute ago, austudnt23 said:

Watson was the top player on our board. Then it was Brandon Harris and after we missed on both of them we offered SW late in the process.

I believe this.

 

wde

[AUsince72 11,084]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If Malzahn is signing players that don't fit into his "system", then he's way over-paid.

That's been my main concern with CGM is that IMHO he was gearing his offense toward a read-option/dual-threat QB direction by recruiting Cam & Nick (and I think JJ was SUPPOSED to be like that).  But then he went after SW & TQ, who appear more pocket types so it leaves us confused as to what IS the identity that he's shooting for?

2015 was evidence of that confusion... However, I (think) I see hope that he's made up his mind based on the signings of JF3 & WB and it seems dual threats are on his recruiting menu moving forward, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now.

But, you're right... Pick your system and recruit accordingly!

[auskip07 930]

I think Gus goes after the best available.  I cant really blame him for doing that.

[AUTIGERinSC 69]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

If they told a qb that is not the starter that they are guaranteed 5-10 snaps we will suck

Remember the Keihl Frazier charity runs off center. Jeezus those were head bangers. 

[willieguns 7]

2 hours ago, cole256 said:

I've actually been told on here that Gus preferred white over Watson. That's when I knew this had went too far....But

Brandon Harris and Desean Watson were his top candidates.  we offered white after everyone else went elsewhere.  It obvious what kind of QB he wants year in and year out.

[JGLEATON 1,244]

Well. I'm not team White, I just think maybe with a little team effort and execution by ALL of them "including" White himself... he can get  the job done. That's all...

I also do think JJ could be really special if he could just put it all together (i'd LOVE to see the JJ from Arky two years ago)...

and I'd be fine for JFIII to just come in and prove all the doubters wrong  and just light it up (i'm not really a doubter myself, no one really knows what he's capable of in SEC play)...

I just hope at least ONE of them steps up.

and I know some of our receivers let down ALL the QB's sometime including JJ... and they ALSO bailed the QB's out some too... I'm hoping we will get more consistent play out of that position so we don't HAVE to make miraculous catches or mount a come back to tie the game...


It was just that Arky game last year was PAINFUL to watch the first two-three series... and it was just about every receiver not just Lewis...  And some of the passes were not on the money, but were catchable.
One thing I noticed about SW even though it was a better game of his to look at just to get an idea of what he's capable of against a pretty good SEC team... he was not hitting most of the receivers in stride and even though he can throw a deep ball, he can't quite seem to throw it like Nick really could or even JJ can where it hit's them in stride so they don't have to adjust, can get more yardage or they can go all the way.

Then later 2nd quarter and n the second half, yes those same receivers came up with huge game saving / tying catches... so yin n yang, yes. I just think you can't blame everything on the QB's... just like you can't blame everything on the receivers... got to get more consistency out of all of them and play as a team.

BTW that block that Ray threw to spring Jason Smith for the touch down was something I'm hoping to see out of the young receivers too... Ray's catches over the middle and his Lutzy type catch for a 2 pt conversion in OT we need more of... and Lewis crazy catches at the end (Grey King's clutch catches)... Pettway's catch and the way he trucked that defender gives me HOPE.  Go back and watch that game... some good stuff in it that we could see a lot more of this year if SW is the guy, including JJ at least having a productive short yardage / Goal line role... KJ running the wildcat well, solid Oline play including giving the QB some time to throw and our HB's trucking some folks.


Biggest takeaway is they never gave up, even with the misplays at the beginning, stayed in it, played together as a team and could have won that game.

Not trying to argue, not trying to pump sunshine either, but I'm also not all gloom and doom... yet...

I just tried to look at a game where Sean had some SEC experience by then, the play calling was not "vanilla" and he played against a pretty good SEC team to see what our Offense MAY look like in about two weeks if he is the starter.


If anything at the end of the day I think we are ALL team AUBURN.

War Eagle!        and I'll shut up now...   

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

10 minutes ago, willieguns said:

Brandon Harris and Desean Watson were his top candidates.  we offered white after everyone else went elsewhere.  It obvious what kind of QB he wants year in and year out.

It maybe obvious what kind of QB Gus wants year in and year out, the question we should be asking is; why can't Gus get them on campus?  He's missed for a couple of years now.

[AU Tytrocious 24]

Has a QB been announced yet, or am I going to have to walk-on at 32 and show these kids how it's done?

 

[willieguns 7]

28 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

That's been my main concern with CGM is that IMHO he was gearing his offense toward a read-option/dual-threat QB direction by recruiting Cam & Nick (and I think JJ was SUPPOSED to be like that).  But then he went after SW & TQ, who appear more pocket types so it leaves us confused as to what IS the identity that he's shooting for?

2015 was evidence of that confusion... However, I (think) I see hope that he's made up his mind based on the signings of JF3 & WB and it seems dual threats are on his recruiting menu moving forward, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt right now.

But, you're right... Pick your system and recruit accordingly!

I am not gonna call our head coach limited.  He seems to have a playbook that works well with running QB's.  Us as fans see it because we follow recruiting and all he ever offers up front are runners then he adds the White's and Queens after he stricks out. 

 

16 minutes ago, JGLEATON said:

Well. I'm not team White, I just think maybe with a little team effort and execution by ALL of them "including" White himself... he can get  the job done. That's all...

I also do think JJ could be really special if he could just put it all together (i'd LOVE to see the JJ from Arky two years ago)...

and I'd be fine for JFIII to just come in and prove all the doubters wrong  and just light it up (i'm not really a doubter myself, no one really knows what he's capable of in SEC play)...

I just hope at least ONE of them steps up.

and I know some of our receivers let down ALL the QB's sometime including JJ... and they ALSO bailed the QB's out some too... I'm hoping we will get more consistent play out of that position so we don't HAVE to make miraculous catches or mount a come back to tie the game...


It was just that Arky game last year was PAINFUL to watch the first two-three series... and it was just about every receiver not just Lewis...  And some of the passes were not on the money, but were catchable.
One thing I noticed about SW even though it was a better game of his to look at just to get an idea of what he's capable of against a pretty good SEC team... he was not hitting most of the receivers in stride and even though he can throw a deep ball, he can't quite seem to throw it like Nick really could or even JJ can where it hit's them in stride so they don't have to adjust, can get more yardage or they can go all the way.

Then later 2nd quarter and n the second half, yes those same receivers came up with huge game saving / tying catches... so yin n yang, yes. I just think you can't blame everything on the QB's... just like you can't blame everything on the receivers... got to get more consistency out of all of them and play as a team.

BTW that block that Ray threw to spring Jason Smith for the touch down was something I'm hoping to see out of the young receivers too... Ray's catches over the middle and his Lutzy type catch for a 2 pt conversion in OT we need more of... and Lewis crazy catches at the end (Grey King's clutch catches)... Pettway's catch and the way he trucked that defender gives me HOPE.  Go back and watch that game... some good stuff in it that we could see a lot more of this year if SW is the guy, including JJ at least having a productive short yardage / Goal line role... KJ running the wildcat well, solid Oline play including giving the QB some time to throw and our HB's trucking some folks.


Biggest takeaway is they never gave up, even with the misplays at the beginning, stayed in it, played together as a team and could have won that game.

Not trying to argue, not trying to pump sunshine either, but I'm also not all gloom and doom... yet...

I just tried to look at a game where Sean had some SEC experience by then, the play calling was not "vanilla" and he played against a pretty good SEC team to see what our Offense MAY look like in about two weeks if he is the starter.


If anything at the end of the day I think we are ALL team AUBURN.

War Eagle!        and I'll shut up now...   

 

 

 

Great post brother!!! So of the fans can only account for JJ drops and not realize that WR's dropped balls all season last year.  WDE

[Woodstock Tiger 131]

1 hour ago, JJB74 said:

I find it funny that a lot of people in here think Gus can't coach but I bet you loved him in 2010 and 2013

he didn't forget how to coach or he didn't forget how to properly evaluate his QB's over night 

he's been coaching a long time 

how many guys on this forum have been a coach at the college level and have coached in the sec 

have any of y'all coached in or won a national championship game 

we were playing for the national championship 2 times in 4 years 

have we ever done that before 

give him some credit, he will pick the right QB for Auburn to win 

GUS??  Is that YOU???  (Kidding).  Agreed on several of those points.  That said, he's had some REALLY big misses too, perhaps some of the criticism is warranted.  I certainly think he's a good coach, but when he helped this team win in 2010, he had a once in a generation player with Cam to run his offense.  In 2013, it took two of the most unlikely plays in the last decade to stay on track to get to the big dance.  (Yeah, it always takes a little luck in for most teams that win a natty, but boy, AU got more than it's fair share that season).

JJ and his Heisman campaign flop was an outright stunner.  Yeah, there is an adjustment period - guys like Jason Campbell started off slowly as well and it took him a few years to blossom, and maybe JJ just needs more snaps to get his mental game together.  It's obviously unclear how JJ ends his career, whether it be with a clipboard on the sideline or actually leading this team, but JJ was touted for YEARS as the up and comer and pfffffffft....it took 3 games for us fans to see he was ill prepared for the SEC.  I get it as nerves are hard to coach out of a kid, but at what point does the blame start being assigned to Gus?  (Frazier was also Gus's guy - granted he left him here for Arky State, but still.  Frazier was a head case as well.)   I guess when AU doesn't have the success that's expected, who else are you going to look at first except the "CEO"?  

[kd4au 1,145]

The people saying SW can't run could be right,but maybe last year Gus didn't want him to do much running, because if SW did get hurt who would Gus had turned to then with JJ playing so inconsistent?This year he may want SW to run more because we have more depth.We will find out in a couple of weeks.

[Charhair 345]

SW seems to be good at making fast decisions. Which, as Malcom Flex said, is one of the most important things about Gus's offense. 

I know I've read that our coaches have complimented Sean's ability to make good reads on the zone. He also goes through his progressions very well even with the o line problems he dealt with last year, based off his limited footage.

Sure he's not the type of running threat that Cam and Nick were but if we have good enough production out of our running backs we won't necessarily need that. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I will say this... I'm going to laugh my butt off if we run a perfect read-option offense with Sean under center. I don't expect it... I expect a more traditional attack with misdirection and Sean taking off on designed runs 5-10 times a game, but I will enjoy it very much if after all the "Sean can't run" & "Gus recruited the wrong type of QB" chatter that Gus actually managed to turn him into a serviceable read-option QB who is more accurate than any other QB we've had under Gus.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, Charhair said:

SW seems to be good at making fast decisions.

I'm going to have to argue that point.  Sean's biggest weakness... though it has gotten better, is staying in the pocket too long. Yes, he got sacked a lot last year partially because our O-Line never fully clicked, but he also got sacked a lot last year because he held on to the ball WAY too long.

You are right that he reads a defense pretty well. Certainly better than Jeremy... maybe not as well as Nick, but that remains to be seen.