Opining all things Gus (Merged)

[johnnyAU 3,644]

It's just too easy to defend Malzahn's offense.  So vanilla and predictable, with the occasional bonehead trick play. 

All the D has to do is blitz on 1st and 2nd down and drop back in coverage on 3rd and long. We're done. Gus runs it up the middle 90% of the time, with almost exactly the same play anyway. He hasn't evolved this offense one iota since 2013.  He won't use the TE. He won't increase the route tree for the WR's.  He won't give up on the ridiculous sugar huddle with the hideaway small back....that has worked about once or twice since he first tried it in 2006. 

Even when he had to throw it deep and back off the D, he still was too stubborn to let JFIII air it out. 

I'm baffled at how we don't have a decent OC 4 years into this mess. There is no excuse for how badly the offense is executing the last two seasons, and now the D is starting to revert to the 2014 form. 

It's sickening to watch. 

[Eisenhower_1952 87]

Lawson can do what he wants to, but in my opinion, I think another year would help him.  I don't see him going til the 4th round. Wasn't Avery Young projected in the 1st or 2nd round, and he didn't even get drafted. If he was a running back then go, but another year could boost his stock.

[Eagle Eye 7]

We should give Malzahn time.  

[TitanTiger 20,510]

17 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Noted. Clint Moseley would've been an improvement over the other two.

Not nearly the improvement that Sean was.  Not even in the same area code.

 

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Has been a problem for two years now. A temporary reprieve against garbage defenses only allowed our offense to be effective again.

First part is true.  Second part is hogwash.  Without Sean, we lose to Ole Miss and LSU at a minimum.  Probably even Vandy.  Nothing even close to a 56-3 thrashing of Arkansas occurs.

 

Quote

The offense wasn't struggling that bad against Vandy with JF3. PFF even graded JF3 as better than SW that game.

Yes, it was.  And I don't know who or what PFF is, but JF3 was 2-4 for 9 yards passing.  He had 59 yds rushing on 7 carries.  No TDs throwing or running.  Sean was 10-13 for 106 with a touchdown pass.  Anyone who thinks JF3 graded out better is on drugs.

JF3 started the game well on his first drive, leading us 63 yards to a TD.  After that it was:

6 yards, punt
0 yards, fumble
47 yards, FG
7 yards, end of half

Sean came in to start the second half:

75 yards in 12 plays, TD pass from SW
39 yards, FG
42 yards, FG
63 yards, missed FG (this would have been another TD if Pettway doesn't pull up lame)

The difference was dramatic and obvious.

 

Quote

Why was he benched against TAM? You know, the only good defense that SW played against in which we cannot use injury as excuse. 

The first three games we were still playing experimentation games.  The Cox Cat was still considered part of our offense.  The offense was a mess.  It wasn't until the LSU game that we fully committed to one QB:  Sean White.

[Tigercj 242]

9 minutes ago, Eisenhower_1952 said:

Lawson can do what he wants to, but in my opinion, I think another year would help him.  I don't see him going til the 4th round. Wasn't Avery Young projected in the 1st or 2nd round, and he didn't even get drafted. If he was a running back then go, but another year could boost his stock.

Lawson needs to learn not everything is a speed rush. He continually ran himself out of plays all night. Last night defense reminds me of the Clemson defense that Steele coach that got manhandle in their bowl game. 

[tombigbeetiger 223]

8 minutes ago, Eagle Eye said:

We should give Malzahn time.  

you can't be serious, can you?.....i just talked to a friend of mine, who just got in from the sugar bowl, and to say that he was livid would be putting it mildly.....he wanted to lead a revolt and throw malzahn into the mississippi river and he said that he had plenty of support from the crowd around him....h said that he would not contribute one more nickle to the program as long as doublebubble is there and this would be his last game to go to....he was more pissed than i have ever seen him

[bg5 536]

Here are the facts. CGM will be the coach at Auburn next year. Nothing said on this board is going to change that. You can go all day with the back and forth but that's not going to change anything. Next year we will have a QB upgrade. If SW can get healthy we will have a good backup. that alone will make a huge difference. If it makes many of you feel better to vent go ahead but at some point let it go and move on. If with all the cards lined up next year everything falls apart I will be with you but I do think things are lined up good for us next year and I expect us to make a great run. All this really gets old saying Gus needs to go every time we lose a game. I don't hear a lot about him doing a good job when we win. For the most part at the beginning of the year most expected us to win 6 or 7 games. We got hot in the middle and exceeded that and the expectations went up. We all knew that we didn't have anyone behind SW so it should not have been a surprise when he went down that we didn't have much. Gus made some mistakes but all coaches do ours just happen to be in the most key position on the field. We have all seen what can be done with a quality QB in this Off.. We should have that next year. so let it all out then turn the page. I think next year will be a very different story.     

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The first three games we were still playing experimentation games.

If there was experimentation going on, it was insignificant. SW completed 18 passes for 126 yards. That's ineffective in a nutshell and a primary reason why our offense was stagnant.

 

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And I don't know who or what PFF is

Pro Football Focus. Their opinion is helluva lot more respected than yours. 

 

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Without Sean, we lose to Ole Miss and LSU at a minimum.

I'm not denying this only because I know the other two are ten times as bad and become less a QB and more of a liability. However I'm not going to commemorate SW for putting 6 FGs on the board either. All it took was one extra second and our ineffective offense would've lost against LSU. The defense deserves all the credit for that game. Touchdowns is the goal of the offense.

 

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Not nearly the improvement that Sean was.  Not even in the same area code.

And the SW improvement isn't in the same area code as the improvement that you're claiming. SW was serviceable, not the most effective.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

1 minute ago, bg5 said:

Here are the facts. CGM will be the coach at Auburn next year. Nothing said on this board is going to change that. You can go all day with the back and forth but that's not going to change anything. Next year we will have a QB upgrade. If SW can get healthy we will have a good backup. that alone will make a huge difference. If it makes many of you feel better to vent go ahead but at some point let it go and move on. If with all the cards lined up next year everything falls apart I will be with you but I do think things are lined up good for us next year and I expect us to make a great run. All this really gets old saying Gus needs to go every time we lose a game. I don't hear a lot about him doing a good job when we win. For the most part at the beginning of the year most expected us to win 6 or 7 games. We got hot in the middle and exceeded that and the expectations went up. We all knew that we didn't have anyone behind SW so it should not have been a surprise when he went down that we didn't have much. Gus made some mistakes but all coaches do ours just happen to be in the most key position on the field. We have all seen what can be done with a quality QB in this Off.. We should have that next year. so let it all out then turn the page. I think next year will be a very different story.     

i hope you're right, but i'll believe it when/if i see it

[Eagle Eye 7]

There are mature ways of handling things

[TitanTiger 20,510]

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

If there was experimentation going on, it was insignificant. SW completed 18 passes for 126 yards. That's ineffective in a nutshell. 

No, it was still happening.  

 

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Pro Football Focus. Their opinion is helluva lot more respected than yours. 

And yet, "grading out 0.6 points higher" isn't the same as, "makes the offense effective."  JF3 has never made this offense effective.  SW has.

 

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

And the SW improvement isn't in the same area code as the improvement that you're claiming. SW was serviceable, not the most effective.

This is what I know...once we committed to Sean and Rhett started calling plays, we took off.  The second Sean went down, even with a still-healthy Pettway and other components, offense fell off a cliff.  He returns at less than 100% and we look good again.  Once he was clearly too hurt to play, we were back down to levels worse than the 3-QB carousel days.

[AUTiger2012 84]

I agree it is time for a change but unfortunately that change is a change in the fans expectations of the team, and our definition of success.  If we can go 500 vs the mississippi schools and beat georgia one out of every 5 we should be pleased because right now that is gus' celing.  On the bright side the Music City bowl is a pretty fun trip.

[AUjcsbija 15]

57 minutes ago, AUcivE09 said:

Did you know Buffalo Wild Wings use to be called Buffalo Wild Wings and Weck? This is how the BW3 shorthand came about and exist even today. The name was officially changed in 1998.

 

Informative!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

aujeff11 said: Pro Football Focus. Their opinion is helluva lot more respected than yours. 

Last I checked, everything Pro Football Focus has said has left people scratching their heads wondering where the hell the came up with it.  I still stand by my belief that they are a bunch of drunk guys watching football in one of their mom's basements and making up crap on a website that they bought.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

1 minute ago, AUTiger2012 said:

I agree it is time for a change but unfortunately that change is a change in the fans expectations of the team, and our definition of success.  If we can go 500 vs the mississippi schools and beat georgia one out of every 5 we should be pleased because right now that is gus' celing.  On the bright side the Music City bowl is a pretty fun trip.

it appears that some on this board are quite content with those expectations

[17-16 21]

I am sick of the lack of discipline on defense. Nobody stays in their lanes. We always have two or three guys in one gap and nobody in another. NO improvement in this area in years. The second OU touchdown was classic example. Davis filling one gap and D Williams is one step, DIRECTLY behind him and the RB cuts to open gap. This crap been happening for years. NO teamwork at all. Very selfish

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And yet, "grading out 0.6 points higher" isn't the same as, "makes the offense effective."  

Didn't make this claim at all. All I said was that our offense with JF3 against Vandy wasnt as bad as you said it was. 

[AUjcsbija 15]

Just now, tombigbeetiger said:

it appears that some on this board are quite content with those expectations

Ehh, it's easier to be content than complain all day at this point. If we go to the Music City Bowl every year and win a national championship every 15 years or so, I could still live my life I guess.

what our expectations are don't change much - they just temper how angry we are after every football game. As the saying goes, maybe next year..

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Last I checked, everything Pro Football Focus has said has left people scratching their heads wondering where the hell the came up with it.

It's certainly not the gospel but it's nationally recognized and respected by many for their analysis....

[Gowebb11 9,362]

43 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

They did... and he broke his arm getting us a first down to put us in scoring position.

Unfortunately, once a guy gets to college level, he either has it or he doesn't. You can refine mechanics and make a decent passer better, but it's pretty rare that, that far into a players career, you're going to be able to take someone who doesn't have it and convert them into a quality passer.

Jeremy is a great example.  This game was a microcosm of his career.  He has a stellar 59 yard pass, but also an INT in the end zone and another near INT, both of which the D read his eyes the whole time. As a coach, you can do everything to hammer it into a player that they need to look off the pass, but that doesn't mean they are going to actually be able to do it, or will do it come game time.

I understand your perspective, but will have to respectfully embrace differing opinions on this. It is a coaching staffs responsibility to properly evaluate and develop talent. Otherwise we are paying all of them way too much. We've had serious deficiencies at QB for several years now, 2010 and 2013 being exceptions. You will be hard pressed to find anyone heap praise on this staffs ability to recruit and develop top QBs. There is no rhyme or reason to their recruiting. JJ is a big bodied guy with below average footwork. Sean White is a good passer but small and frail. JF3 had one other offer: Buffalo. T Queen is neither a fleet runner nor able to stay healthy. Strong rumors indicate WB has great dual threat skills but has poor work habits. Anyone can miss on one or two of those, but all 5? And I didn't even touch on Clint Mosley, Barret Trotter, Jonathan Wallace, or Khiel Frazier(Gus had some role in working with all of them) And it doesn't stop at QB. Pettway got zero carries last year and zero versus Clemson.  Craig-Myers had 4 catches this year. Leff warmed the bench 4 years and the NFL considers him a highly ranked prospect. Increasing evidence points to this staff being deficient in evaluating and developing talent. I hope 2017 is different but I'm very concerned. War Eagle always, though. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Didn't make this claim at all. All I said was that our offense with JF3 against Vandy wasnt as bad as you said it was. 

But I did make the claim.  I said Sean made this offense effective and pointed to the Vandy game as one side by side comparison to demonstrate it.  You counter with "JF3 graded out higher," which isn't the same thing at all.

And yes, it was bad.  With JF3 at the helm we produced 123 yds and 10 points.  With Sean White we produced 219 yards and 13 points, but even that last figure is a misnomer because Pettway was on his way to scoring a TD when his quad gave out.  We subsequently missed a FG.  So it should have been 20 points with 16 as a bare minimum if the normally automatic Daniel Carlson doesn't miss.

The production of the offense under the two QBs aren't comparable.  And had Sean been 100% it would have been even more stark.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Didn't make this claim at all. All I said was that our offense with JF3 against Vandy wasnt as bad as you said it was. 

 

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

This is what I know...once we committed to Sean and Rhett started calling plays, we took off.

This is what I know: Our offense has been way more effective with different QBs at the helm. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

This is what I know: Our offense has been way more effective with different QBs at the helm. 

Something I've already acknowledged when I made it abundantly clear that I'm not saying Sean is as good as Nick or Cam.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

But I did make the claim.  I said Sean made this offense effective and pointed to the Vandy game as one side by side comparison to demonstrate it.  You counter with "JF3 graded out higher," which isn't the same thing at all.

No, I countered with: "The offense wasn't struggling that bad against Vandy with JF3. PFF even graded JF3 as better than SW that game."

So now you're cherry picking my arguments.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Something I've already acknowledged when I made it abundantly clear that I'm not saying Sean is as good as Nick or Cam.

Or any other QB with a live arm...