Jarrett Stidham Film analysis

[GwillMac6 20,678]

1 hour ago, KerryThachWDE said:

I don't think that happens.  you put the best player in to give you the best chance of winning.  correct me if im wrong but didn't Nick Marshall come in during the Fall and beat out Khiel Frazier who knew the playbook?  Stidham coming in during the spring gives him plenty of time to learn the plays.

lol that was clearly sarcasm I guess I should of been more clear. just busting on gus and his 5 plays he uses. our playbook has to be the easiest for anyone to be able to pick up...... along with opposing teams.

[bigbird 60,525]

40 minutes ago, corchjay said:

I love ya my brother but context in this route tree is what is missing.  When we refer to "route tree" we aren't specifically talking about one receiver.   We are talking the complexity of all the eligible receivers in combination with each other.  

Also you hear the statement he threw late... This has 2 meanings, either he threw the ball after coverage was able to close on an open Receiver or that 2 routes came into the same vicinity of each other and let 1 defender cover 2 receivers.  

 

Like our favorite deep play, the "whirlybird" or "twhirlybird".. the orbit motion play...

The orbit guy coming from the field orbits into the backfield play action to the back holds the LBs, the orbit guy holds the DE to outside leverage so the RT will know where the defender will be rushing from.  The orbit is the checkdown "hot" read on a blitz.  The boundry receiver runs a deep In pattern about 15 yards and should draw at least 1 of the safeties the field receiver runs a go or skinny post on the hash "7 step drop" boom deep throw or if both the safeties played deep coverage hit the deep in.

This is a good example of proper timing and route tree.  Our problem is routes run into each other and normally are designed for open spaces, what most here are complaining about is there is no attacking a certain player considered to be weak in coverage whether it be a DB or a LB.  They want to combo routes against those players to make them pick their poison.  Like a double slant attacking an outside line backer, where he has to choose which to cover, either the short WR in from on him or the intermediate WR behind him.    

Completely agree. The combinations of routes are what set schemes apart.  That said, as a secondary guy, I teach my guys to pattern read and that concept is based on steps and where the WRs breaks occur. All of that is based on those routes. Like you said though, the combination and splits are what change how we play the routes.

[corchjay 5,311]

Granted I do have to say you have to have players capable of doing those things.  Like for example a favorite pass play of this offense if the WR screen.  Our WR's couldn't block for crap on the edge so WR screen was ditched.  

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,297]

3 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Gus is incapable of running a successful pass first offense. Never been done with him outside a future NFL MVP and even that offense was 50/50 pass to run ratio correct? Until I see it with my own eyes I will always believe Gus passing offense will be chicken @#$%.

Anyone else going to correct this or should I refer him to Tulsa?

[GwillMac6 20,678]

2 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

Anyone else going to correct this or should I refer him to Tulsa?

I guess I should of said the SEC. He has not shown he is capable of running a passing offense. SPARE me the chris todd stats. he got a bunch of his tds vs garbage teams. teams like ball state and LA Tech.

[corchjay 5,311]

Just now, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

Anyone else going to correct this or should I refer him to Tulsa?

Why would we pass more in 2013 the read option was unstoppable?  2014 the pass was opened up with an experienced QB and dependable WRs.  2015 inexperienced QB, shotty pass pro offensive line, and dropsy WRs.  This year, no confidence in QB, no established receiver, Injuries.   Plus our offense if a run play action team, if we were Air Raid people would be complaining we don't run the ball.  Hell listen to the bammers....  "Lane, run the damn ball baw"

[alexava 6,973]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

I see the phase route tree used all the time and I'm not sure everyone is correct when they use it.  There are only X number of routes. Every teams route trees are the same. They might be numbered/called something different, but otherwise a fly is a go is a 9. The differences come with the different splits and combinations that they are run with. Everyone loves Baylor's passing attack, but they run the same route tree as Auburn.

 

Thank you.

[AUFAN78 3,895]

2 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

Anyone else going to correct this or should I refer him to Tulsa?

You are correct. I think Gus has proven to be effective with a stud qb. Can JS live up to that hype? Has Gus lost the mojo? 

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

We had a great passing game with weak arm Todd... I hope he remembers to open the book to page 3 &4. 

[kd4au 1,145]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Why would we pass more in 2013 the read option was unstoppable?  2014 the pass was opened up with an experienced QB and dependable WRs.  2015 inexperienced QB, shotty pass pro offensive line, and dropsy WRs.  This year, no confidence in QB, no established receiver, Injuries.   Plus our offense if a run play action team, if we were Air Raid people would be complaining we don't run the ball.  Hell listen to the bammers....  "Lane, run the damn ball baw"

Because with just a little bit better passing game we win the national championship.

[corchjay 5,311]

31 minutes ago, kd4au said:

Because with just a little bit better passing game we win the national championship.

Scoring wasn't our issue in '13.  Failed kickoff coverage and defense was.  

[ertrader 197]

6 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Insert other media

Never been done with him outside a future NFL MVP and even that offense was 50/50 pass to run ratio correct? Until I see it with my own eyes I will always believe Gus passing offense will be chicken @#$%. 

Actually we weren't even close to pass first or 50/50 in 2010. More like 70/30 run/pass. We finished next to last in the SEC in passes attempted that year, and would have been dead last except that we played 14 games while Miss St played 13.

I think we have finished last or next to last in the SEC in pass attempts 5 out of the 7 years Gus has been here. Exceptions were 2009 and 2014.

i don't fully understand it given he hasn't been like this at other places. I guess we will see what happens next year.

[TAYLORKEETON 792]

4 hours ago, kd4au said:

Because with just a little bit better passing game we win the national championship.

Eh. Better tackling & we win the game. If anybody remembers FSU had a short pass turn into a long pass due to our missed tackles on their game winning TD drive. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

17 hours ago, bigbird said:

I would expect a offense very similar to this years with more attempts downfield and far fewer drops. I really hope to see 25-30 passes a game, but until I do...

I'm going to wait till A-Day before I say anything. Gus had better open things up during A-Day and give people hope. Because what we say at A-Day last spring is exactly what we got this fall. 

[Strychnine 1,802]

15 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Every route is under-utilized, have receivers running routes instead of some gimmick crap fake, limit gimmick crap so JS can get his eyes down the field sooner and make a good read.  Just please meet with Art and develop the passing routes and in practice don't always throw to option one.  Most of the big plays with Cam and Nick were on broken plays and not on designed plays.  We have a wealth of size and talent not being utilized by the coaching staff.  We have WR's that only run one or two routes when they are in games.  See issues with Coates and Louis in the NFL.  Check out of a WR screen when the D is in press coverage.   I think all this is needed to improve in the plays to see success, I just hope that ego will allow this to happen.  There is not an offense out there that does not stay successful long without evolving and the whirly bird is not evolving, it gets you fired almost everywhere else

 

Indeed.  The signature of both 2010 and 2013's offenses was the QB's running them had an uncanny ability to see the field, keep plays alive, and just generally make "stuff" happen out of nothing.  I actually think Nick may have been better than Cam at making something out of nothing, and I will never forget the pass that Nick completed to himself.  Either way, they both had skills at the QB position that you really cannot coach.

[kd4au 1,145]

12 hours ago, corchjay said:

Scoring wasn't our issue in '13.  Failed kickoff coverage and defense was.  

True but I remember Nick under throwing a wide open Louis,a lot of plays in that game that if we make we win.

[kd4au 1,145]

8 hours ago, TAYLORKEETON said:

Eh. Better tackling & we win the game. If anybody remembers FSU had a short pass turn into a long pass due to our missed tackles on their game winning TD drive. 

I remember several plays that could have won the game for us.Still can't believe we lost that game.

[DAG 33,982]

50 minutes ago, kd4au said:

I remember several plays that could have won the game for us.Still can't believe we lost that game.

Turning point was that obvious fake punt when FSU was desperate, but I digress...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 hours ago, corchjay said:

Scoring wasn't our issue in '13.  Failed kickoff coverage Pulled hamstrings and defense was.  

Fixed it for you.

[Tiger 8,826]

20 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Every route is under-utilized, have receivers running routes instead of some gimmick crap fake, limit gimmick crap so JS can get his eyes down the field sooner and make a good read.  Just please meet with Art and develop the passing routes and in practice don't always throw to option one.  Most of the big plays with Cam and Nick were on broken plays and not on designed plays.  We have a wealth of size and talent not being utilized by the coaching staff.  We have WR's that only run one or two routes when they are in games.  See issues with Coates and Louis in the NFL.  Check out of a WR screen when the D is in press coverage.   I think all this is needed to improve in the plays to see success, I just hope that ego will allow this to happen.  There is not an offense out there that does not stay successful long without evolving and the whirly bird is not evolving, it gets you fired almost everywhere else

This bolded part is the problem. We have an offensive staff that is dependent on players bailing them out of their play calls.

The bold and underlined part is part of why people call our offense a High School offense. As far as not checking out of WR screens when the D is in press coverage is that we can be baited into calling that play. The defense shows a "dummy" alignment, then after Gus/Rhett counters to how the defense is set up, the defense just slides into their real coverage leaving no time for us to change into yet another play.

If we allowed our QB to make checks at the line this would alleviate the problem. I understood back in 2010 or so when the reason for not giving QBs that responsibility is so that they aren't thinking too much and able to go fast BUT WE DON'T EVEN GO FAST ANYMORE UNLESS WE RUN THE EXACT. SAME. PLAY WE JUST RAN! But our coach wants to micromanage. Hell, he even wants to micromanage the zone read -- a play predicated on a post-snap read and he wants to be the one making that decision before we even snap the ball. Nick Marshall bailed him out of this several times.

Lol I'm probably making people sick of my miserable posts at this point I'm just amazed at how we found ourselves here.

[TAYLORKEETON 792]

3 hours ago, kd4au said:

I remember several plays that could have won the game for us.Still can't believe we lost that game.

Me too, man. To this day I still really can't talk about it. Just makes me mad. lol

[Strychnine 1,802]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

This bolded part is the problem. We have an offensive staff that is dependent on players bailing them out of their play calls.

The bold and underlined part is part of why people call our offense a High School offense. As far as not checking out of WR screens when the D is in press coverage is that we can be baited into calling that play. The defense shows a "dummy" alignment, then after Gus/Rhett counters to how the defense is set up, the defense just slides into their real coverage leaving no time for us to change into yet another play.

If we allowed our QB to make checks at the line this would alleviate the problem. I understood back in 2010 or so when the reason for not giving QBs that responsibility is so that they aren't thinking too much and able to go fast BUT WE DON'T EVEN GO FAST ANYMORE UNLESS WE RUN THE EXACT. SAME. PLAY WE JUST RAN! But our coach wants to micromanage. Hell, he even wants to micromanage the zone read -- a play predicated on a post-snap read and he wants to be the one making that decision before we even snap the ball. Nick Marshall bailed him out of this several times.

Lol I'm probably making people sick of my miserable posts at this point I'm just amazed at how we found ourselves here.

 

I know I have mentioned my annoyance on more than one occasion at our strategy of hurry-up into formation, then wait 20-30 seconds while Gus/Lashlee play peek-a-boo with the defense.  We have a simple offense predicated upon disguising that fact with eye-candy, where it is expected to be operated at high tempo.  When the tempo is removed, the eye-candy is far less effective at covering up the simple offense.

I understand that you need a simple offense in order to run at high tempo, that makes perfect sense.  The eye-candy thrown on top to confuse the defense further when you are running at high tempo makes perfect sense too.  I think you are handicapping yourself when you give the defense (and DC) time to see and think about what you are doing prior to the snap.  They have already had time to review film and learn your tendencies within a simple offense, and you are now giving them time to better apply what they learned while studying you.

The crazy thing to me is that Gus wrote The Hurry-Up, No-Huddle: An Offensive Philosophy, and the program he is in charge of does not really run his offense.  Baylor under Art Briles is more like what our offense should look like.  That is what I expected when he was hired.  I certainly expected the offense to be sustaining that tempo by his 4th season.

[Tiger 8,826]

4 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

I know I have mentioned my annoyance on more than one occasion at our strategy of hurry-up into formation, then wait 20-30 seconds while Gus/Lashlee play peek-a-boo with the defense.  We have a simple offense predicated upon disguising that fact with eye-candy, where it is expected to be operated at high tempo.  When the tempo is removed, the eye-candy is far less effective at covering up the simple offense.

I understand that you need a simple offense in order to run at high tempo, that makes perfect sense.  The eye-candy thrown on top to confuse the defense further when you are running at high tempo makes perfect sense too.  I think you are handicapping yourself when you give the defense (and DC) time to see and think about what you are doing prior to the snap.  They have already had time to review film and learn your tendencies within a simple offense, and you are now giving them time to better apply what they learned while studying you.

The crazy thing to me is that Gus wrote The Hurry-Up, No-Huddle: An Offensive Philosophy, and the program he is in charge of does not really run his offense.  Baylor under Art Briles is more like what our offense should look like.  That is what I expected when he was hired.  I certainly expected the offense to be sustaining that tempo by his 4th season.

Freaking nailed it. 100%. Out of likes but: 

[oracle79 3,569]

5 hours ago, Tiger said:

But our coach wants to micromanage. Hell, he even wants to micromanage the zone read -- a play predicated on a post-snap read and he wants to be the one making that decision before we even snap the ball. Nick Marshall bailed him out of this several times.

That big bold word is GM's biggest problem, and what is eventually going to be his downfall.

All coaches want things done their way or the way they eventually decide things should be done.  Good coaches have that basic foundation that they are going to live and die with be it power running, play-action, tempo, quick short passing game, complex route running, a combination of those, other things, etc.  But the good coaches achieve their goal of getting that done by hiring competent, qualified coaches who they value feed back from, but also trust that at the end of the day to implement what the coach wants implemented.  And their assistant willing step up and buy into the implementation because they know their head coach trusts them to do their job and will also listen to any concerns that they experience in the implementation of their master plan.

Gus doesn't trust anyone but himself, and possibly RL (see ya DC, hello yes man).  I think the zone read fiasco started much more in 2014 when Prosch and Robinson and Mason were gone, and Gus didn't trust NM and Cap to have that same chemistry and he wanted to throw more to show that he could develop NM into a good passer.  Now I doubt we've had a single true zone read run since then.  I'm sure every zone read or jet sweep is called from the sideline, and I'd also bet most pass routes to throw to are called from the sideline.  I could never see GM allowing a QB to check out of any play on his on.  At best they call 2 plays and look to the sideline to chose one.  And I think the main reason he doesn't trust his players is because he knows he isn't capable of coaching/teaching them what they need to know and read to make a sound decision.

Easy to see from the outside, but if you're a paranoid, egomaniac, it's hard to take advice from others and trust anyone other than yourself the responsibility of making those decisions.  And, that (not his recruiting, or scheme, or game plan, or player development) is what is going to cost him his job in the end.  There is too much to do in college football to be successful for one person to do it all.

[JoeTiger 9]

On 1/4/2017 at 3:52 PM, DAG said:

I am sure he was being sarcastic. Absolutely no way JS does not start

+1. Stidham will start regardless of White's health.