What is off about this team?

[cole256 17,084]

9 hours ago, bigbird said:

Yep! Remind me who was it that  thought Doughty would be able to easily replace Heron.  

 

😁

Smh. Where's your tronz etiquette? Zoinks

[AU64 10,122]

6 hours ago, bigbird said:

Except the returning players didn't remotely have the same skill set.  We don't have anyone that can consistently drive and be effective at the rim. We also don't have anyone that crashes the boards like Heron or Murray did.

Why is it like that?   Murray was a "bounced around" guy of limited skills. Heron was only sometimes the best player...and DP had equal promise...or better. 

[gr82be 14,431]

29 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Why is it like that?   Murray was a "bounced around" guy of limited skills. Heron was only sometimes the best player...and DP had equal promise...or better. 

Murray's mindset and attitude had a huge effect on his play vs skill. Heron was up and down at times but there is also the factor of how the rest of the team responds when certain guys are plugged in. Effort and hustle are a great equalizer. The team won't get better when DP walks on to the court until DP makes them a believer. 

 

[AU64 10,122]

16 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Murray's mindset and attitude had a huge effect on his play vs skill. Heron was up and down at times but there is also the factor of how the rest of the team responds when certain guys are plugged in. Effort and hustle are a great equalizer. The team won't get better when DP walks on to the court until DP makes them a believer. 

 

agree...mine was primarily a rhetorical question......the answer about Murray in particular (and our rebounding now) in my view is about attitude and effort. 

Heron is currently the second or third best player on his team at St Johns.   He should have been replaceable in equal measure. JMO. 

[Tiger 8,827]

Body language has been very disappointing lately. Samir will sit there and sulk for a full 1-2 seconds after a turnover or a bad call against him. Bryce has been sulking since freshman year -- although he has gotten exponentially better at it he has not fully eliminated it from his demeanor. Harper has visibly been showing frustration by throwing his hands up after a bad play or something similar. This is new for him, and while I don't know if Bryce will ever snap out of it we need Harper to be more composed. When your 2 lead guards are so open with showing their frustrations that can be contagious. Especially for a team trying to wade through some adversity.

[steeleagle 2,945]

33 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Body language has been very disappointing lately. Samir will sit there and sulk for a full 1-2 seconds after a turnover or a bad call against him. Bryce has been sulking since freshman year -- although he has gotten exponentially better at it he has not fully eliminated it from his demeanor. Harper has visibly been showing frustration by throwing his hands up after a bad play or something similar. This is new for him, and while I don't know if Bryce will ever snap out of it we need Harper to be more composed. When your 2 lead guards are so open with showing their frustrations that can be contagious. Especially for a team trying to wade through some adversity.

Our problem is we are simply not playing good defense. We are scoring over 80 pts consistently, and we have at some point in the second half of games, taken the lead. But consistently, and fairly quickly we give the lead back, bc we don't provide consistent defensive stops. Look at all the teams that we allow to score in the 80's-90's? That is poor D....

And it starts in the middle, where our 2 inside guys get in way too much foul trouble. And it also is bc Harper seems to let too many of his guys dribble by him, causing them to go to the basket and get fouled or they dish off for a easy layup or stuff(i.e. MSU game).

Our replacements for Heron and Murray are not better defenders (Purifoy (terrible), Doughty(not big or strong enough), and Dunbar(better on offense, and not under control emotionally)...

 

[Tiger 8,827]

11 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

Our problem is we are simply not playing good defense. We are scoring over 80 pts consistently, and we have at some point in the second half of games, taken the lead. But consistently, and fairly quickly we give the lead back, bc we don't provide consistent defensive stops. Look at all the teams that we allow to score in the 80's-90's? That is poor D....

And it starts in the middle, where our 2 inside guys get in way too much foul trouble. And it also is bc Harper seems to let too many of his guys dribble by him, causing them to go to the basket and get fouled or they dish off for a easy layup or stuff(i.e. MSU game).

Our replacements for Heron and Murray are not better defenders (Purifoy (terrible), Doughty(not big or strong enough), and Dunbar(better on offense, and not under control emotionally)...

 

 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

 

SO.... what do you do about it?   

[Tiger 8,827]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

SO.... what do you do about it?   

Well Bruce said he's going to have to change things schematically on D after the game. Seems like a good start. He also said in the pre-season we have more offensive weapons available to us this year but he was pretty transparent about how we will not be as good on defense this year. That's inarguable at this point. I know some on here say teams seem to go off on us from 3, even poor shooting teams but that's a major trend at this point and we are letting teams get comfortable from 3. Our D has been a problem there is no doubt as @steeleaglesaid. Some of it starts with letting a guard beat us off the dribble leading to someone having to help off their man -- vs Miss State how many open dunks or looks at the bucket did they get after forcing our D in a barrage of helping off their man??? Other times it's our inability to fight through screen or communicate when to switch etc.

We have not been playing great the last 3 but I am confident Wiley's presence alone, even if he gave us next to nothing offensively from a scoring perspective, would've been enough to at least have us 2-1 in our last 3. We lose a little bit of flow with him on O, but he bolsters our D and rebounding so much that he's a big time difference maker for us. We need him back badly.

 

[steeleagle 2,945]

exactly. Bruce alluded too our weak inside D. He noticed also, that when guards get by Brown or Harper, then as they go to the basket, and one of our inside guys try to help out, someone else has to drop down on that weak side and fill in that hole left. We never did that time after time in the second half of the MSU...therefore the upteen dunks. 

He also said it would help if our guards would stay in front of their guy. He said only Brown and Chuma are doing that consistently. Harper definitely is not, and neither is Doughty. 

[Tiger 8,827]

24 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

exactly. Bruce alluded too our weak inside D. He noticed also, that when guards get by Brown or Harper, then as they go to the basket, and one of our inside guys try to help out, someone else has to drop down on that weak side and fill in that hole left. We never did that time after time in the second half of the MSU...therefore the upteen dunks. 

He also said it would help if our guards would stay in front of their guy. He said only Brown and Chuma are doing that consistently. Harper definitely is not, and neither is Doughty. 

Yup and as you said earlier the foul trouble our bigs get into when we only have Mac and Horace available to us at the 5 is big time hurdle for us. This is also a direct result of letting opposing guards get into the lane whenever they wish.

[cole256 17,084]

8 hours ago, AU64 said:

Why is it like that?   Murray was a "bounced around" guy of limited skills. Heron was only sometimes the best player...and DP had equal promise...or better. 

That's how most here evaluated them, but clearly that's not accurate

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

exactly. Bruce alluded too our weak inside D. He noticed also, that when guards get by Brown or Harper, then as they go to the basket, and one of our inside guys try to help out, someone else has to drop down on that weak side and fill in that hole left. We never did that time after time in the second half of the MSU...therefore the upteen dunks. 

He also said it would help if our guards would stay in front of their guy. He said only Brown and Chuma are doing that consistently. Harper definitely is not, and neither is Doughty. 

Nobody on the team does and it's very hard to do but on top of that only chumma has the length to make up for it

[cole256 17,084]

Foul trouble from the inside is the fault of the guards, I pointed this out during the Maui tournament, somebody tried to justify it by saying we let them drive by us, I replied that couldn't be true

[AU64 10,122]

 Why not.?    DM moved to Western KY and played fewer minutes than at AU and is now gone.    Heron is second or third player at St Johns...They were important but still.....we had incoming players and DP back.....which should have been enough to cover the losses....JMO

[cole256 17,084]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

 Why not.?    DM moved to Western KY and played fewer minutes than at AU and is now gone.    Heron is second or third player at St Johns...They were important but still.....we had incoming players and DP back.....which should have been enough to cover the losses....JMO

For one different players have different strengths and weaknesses. You could have Russell Westbrook replace James Harden. They both are all stars but you can't just imagine because they both are they will replace everything from each other.

Second you can't just say hey this person does this on another team. Other people on that teammay have things covered. Herron is number 2 to another 5 star guard who dominates the ball......Murray was kicked off the team for discipline stuff, I'm sure that affected his minutes.

Proof is in the results, everybody can say they were marginal players but clearly they weren't from production. You can't ever just say this guy who never played the role will cover the loss of this guy who did the job. Especially in Herron's case. He was the alpha on this team since his freshman year....it didn't even make sense to think anybody on this team would be able to take his spot easy

[AU64 10,122]

16 minutes ago, cole256 said:

everybody can say they were marginal players but clearly they weren't from production.

They were not marginal but they should not have been indispensable.   Wiley seems to be the most indispensable and odds are he will not be back next year. JMO

Shoot every year guys graduate or whatever and the ones moving up are supposed to just keep the program moving along.   Hated to lose them   both....but that's the life of a coach who is supposed to adapt.   We've got lots of talent...or seem so if you read the press clippings when they arrived 

[cole256 17,084]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

They were not marginal but they should not have been indispensable.   Wiley seems to be the most indispensable and odds are he will not be back next year. JMO

Shoot every year guys graduate or whatever and the ones moving up are supposed to just keep the program moving along.   Hated to lose them   both....but that's the life of a coach who is supposed to adapt.   We've got lots of talent...or seem so if you read the press clippings when they arrived 

Who? Who on this team were supposed to be so talented? Why did you feel that we were equipped to move on? Fact is you're trying to say because whoever over rated guys and under rated others things should be ok. The only player on paper that was supposed to be very good was dp and he was coming off a two year hiatus so nobody should've thought he was going to be lights out. The talented players he got left. Just because somebody like a guy doesn't make him talented or vice versa on disliking a guy. Hell this year when this season first started who besides me was talking about Dunbar? People on here are constantly complaining about Wiley. You can't go by a consensus of a football school message board says who is good and who's not......how many really know what they are seeing? It's just not like football. Samir isn't a super recruit, Harper is good but we all see his size. Brown wasn't a high recruit. Chumma was, a mac wasn't, Wiley was and we don't even appreciate him until we take these L's. Then on the bench who has these press clippings you mention?

[bigbird 60,540]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Hell this year when this season first started who besides me was talking about Dunbar?

how many really know what they are seeing? 

[AU64 10,122]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Who? Who on this team were supposed to be so talented? Why did you feel that we were equipped to move on? Fact is you're trying to say because whoever over rated guys and under rated others things should be ok. The only player on paper that was supposed to be very good was dp and he was coming off a two year hiatus so nobody should've thought he was going to be lights out. The talented players he got left. Just because somebody like a guy doesn't make him talented or vice versa on disliking a guy. Hell this year when this season first started who besides me was talking about Dunbar? People on here are constantly complaining about Wiley. You can't go by a consensus of a football school message board says who is good and who's not......how many really know what they are seeing? It's just not like football. Samir isn't a super recruit, Harper is good but we all see his size. Brown wasn't a high recruit. Chumma was, a mac wasn't, Wiley was and we don't even appreciate him until we take these L's. Then on the bench who has these press clippings you mention?

Did you fail to note how AU was ranked pre-season?    People who follow the sport for a living is who.....….well I guess about everyone other than you .....so take your bow.   BTW...could be that the lost of Mitchell was as big as losing the other two?  

[cole256 17,084]

14 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Did you fail to note how AU was ranked pre-season?    People who follow the sport for a living is who.....….well I guess about everyone other than you .....so take your bow.   BTW...could be that the lost of Mitchell was as big as losing the other two?  

A good team doesn't always equate to you lose a player so the bench player or the next guy up is just as good. It's meshing and finding a balance.

Cole blaycock is from Florence, went to a school named Brooks. Brooks will ALWAYS be s school with kids that are good shooters, good fundamentals your type of basketball. Watch them during warm ups you will literally see a couple of them hitting 5/6 three's in a row.....I NEVER worried about losing to Brooks. When the game actually starts and everybody is screaming and the pressure very rare anybody could hardly hit anything yet alone 5 in a row. They were capable but basketball is different when it's live. It's easy to think a guy can play.

You trying to make this all complex. It's not. It's as simple as people over valued some and undervalued others so the equation was all out of whack. It's not like we're terrible we're not as good as we thought. It's not a diss, when I first said this people took offense said I was negative. We can still be good but we're not lose your best player and just reload like nothing good yet.

And yes losing Mitchell was very big. Well at least I think so and expressed that. I guess it's subjective but having a high energy uber athletic back up can't hurt. He was the best perimeter defender on our team

[cole256 17,084]

55 minutes ago, bigbird said:

My bad, I shouldn't say nobody did that's being too broad.

[bigbird 60,540]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

My bad, I shouldn't say nobody did that's being too broad.

Is that a fat joke...

[augolf1716 21,190]

30 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Is that a fat joke...

Look in the mirror

[AUBwins 10,075]

58 minutes ago, cole256 said:

My bad, I shouldn't say nobody did that's being too broad.

@bigbird and @cole256 on the basketball forum 😊