The Effect of Trumpism on the Christian Church

[jj3jordan 2,056]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Newsflash:  The Democrats being terrible on something or multiple things doesn't wash away the bad things about Trump and the GOP.  Try not whatabouting.

Yes loving the country and wanting it to succeed is bad.  Got it.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

2 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Yes loving the country and wanting it to succeed is bad.  Got it.

You take the kool-aid intravenously.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

You take the kool-aid intravenously.

As usual solid comment. Insult with no subject matter content. I’ll take the win.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

4 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

I understand why you would be offended by a slogan such as “America First”. Deflecting that onto me is irrational. Deal with yourself first.

Yeah, you've seen so many complaints from me about "America First."  That's the issue I've had with him and the GOP's knob slobbering over him.  

[TitanTiger 20,499]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

As usual solid comment. Insult with no subject matter content. I’ll take the win.

You said nothing of substance to offer "subject matter content" for.  I don't allow people who offer simplistic responses to bog my life down by offering back informed, detailed arguments when they aren't warranted.  Casting pearls before swine and all that.

[AU9377 4,966]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Trump didn’t hate anybody, he loves this country and proclaimed that loudly and forcefully.

What you should ask yourself is why anyone in that position would hate this country?  Why would you so readily believe that Hillary or Obama, Biden etc hate this country in some way?  You are free to love and worship whoever you want.  My issue with Trump isn't that he "hates' America.  My issue is that he loves himself too much and the power of the Presidency too much.  There is no principle that he won't sacrifice in order promote himself.

It is shameful that many in the Christian church are willing to overlook the moral failings of the man for the sake of perceived influence.  Consider this.  On one hand you have a man married to the same woman for over 20 years. He and his wife are active members of the Christian church.  They have 2 daughters.  He and his wife have volunteered their time for over 20 years in poor communities trying to help organize efforts to make their lives better.  He isn't poor, but he also isn't extremely wealthy.

Compare that to the man that was born extremely wealthy with every advantage that life can afford.  He also has a beautiful family, but that family includes several ex wives due to the fact that he is an admitted adulterer.  He mocks the poor and encourages violence.  He has even mocked the idea of sin and forgiveness, the very cornerstones of faith.

The church should stay out of politics, but if it insists on opining, it should at the very least abide by its own principles.

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Yes loving the country and wanting it to succeed is bad.  Got it.

 

Patriotism and love of country has been used as an excuse for many atrocities, crimes, and discrimination throughout Americas history. 

Loving the country isn't "bad", but it also doesn't mean your arguments or motives are any better or more pure. 

 

[DKW 86 7,426]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Because he hated all the same people they hated.

But still, he didnt hate the same people up until he went Republican. He claimed to be a  Democrat most of his life.

He was Pro Abortion, Sex outside the marriage, etc. 

Anyone thinks he changed the way he acts is just crazy.

[homersapien 11,387]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Patriotism and love of country has been used as an excuse for many atrocities, crimes, and discrimination throughout Americas history. 

Loving the country isn't "bad", but it also doesn't mean your arguments or motives are any better or more pure. 

 

In this particular case, the term "America First" was originally linked with anti-semitism and isolationism prior to WWII.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/trump-america-first/514037/

 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

55 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

But still, he didnt hate the same people up until he went Republican. He claimed to be a  Democrat most of his life.

He was Pro Abortion, Sex outside the marriage, etc. 

Anyone thinks he changed the way he acts is just crazy.

Didn't matter.  He said it during the campaign, promised to be their protector, and they bought it.  He sprinkled in just enough God and country verbiage and they chomped on the hook like it was their last meal.

[homersapien 11,387]

Wonder what he was thinking at the time.

His right hand is awfully close to that blonde's you-know-what. 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Wonder what he was thinking at the time.

His right hand is awfully close to that blonde's you-know-what. 

 

 

 

When you're famous they just let you do it....!

[jj3jordan 2,056]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

What you should ask yourself is why anyone in that position would hate this country?  Why would you so readily believe that Hillary or Obama, Biden etc hate this country in some way?  You are free to love and worship whoever you want.  My issue with Trump isn't that he "hates' America.  My issue is that he loves himself too much and the power of the Presidency too much.  There is no principle that he won't sacrifice in order promote himself.

It is shameful that many in the Christian church are willing to overlook the moral failings of the man for the sake of perceived influence.  Consider this.  On one hand you have a man married to the same woman for over 20 years. He and his wife are active members of the Christian church.  They have 2 daughters.  He and his wife have volunteered their time for over 20 years in poor communities trying to help organize efforts to make their lives better.  He isn't poor, but he also isn't extremely wealthy.

Compare that to the man that was born extremely wealthy with every advantage that life can afford.  He also has a beautiful family, but that family includes several ex wives due to the fact that he is an admitted adulterer.  He mocks the poor and encourages violence.  He has even mocked the idea of sin and forgiveness, the very cornerstones of faith.

The church should stay out of politics, but if it insists on opining, it should at the very least abide by its own principles.

Well let’s see. Hillary tried once to take over health care by the government. Failed thank goodness. Obama clearly does not like the US as stated in at least two of his books that I have read the passages from. Biden is incapable of writing anything on his own as evidenced by serial plagiarism but he certainly acts like he wants to make significant changes to our completely unfair system that allowed a lunch bucket commuter to now be worth double digit millions despite never making more than $180k per year.

Joe as a devout Catholic broke up an apparently happy marriage after his wife was killed and married Hunter’s babysitter.  As bad as Trump? Not if you are keeping score. But bad enough to say extremely sinful as defined by your own church that you say you are devoutly devoted to? Yup. 
 

You are right the church should stay out of politics.  But if you claim to be a devout Catholic and then openly and publicly defy their tenets, then don’t be surprised if somebody notices.

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

 

 

Quote

Joe as a devout Catholic broke up an apparently happy marriage after his wife was killed and married Hunter’s babysitter.  As bad as Trump? Not if you are keeping score. But bad enough to say extremely sinful as defined by your own church that you say you are devoutly devoted to? Yup. 

Except that this story isn't true. Jill Biden was never a babysitter for the Biden's and Biden didn't break up their marriage. They started dating in the same year that Jill got formally divorced, and were set up on a date through Joe's brother who already knew Jill.

Quote

 

You are right the church should stay out of politics.  But if you claim to be a devout Catholic and then openly and publicly defy their tenets, then don’t be surprised if somebody notices.

Difference being that Joe Biden wasn't elected because of his Catholicism. I'd wager very, very few Biden voters care about his religion at all. 

The reason Trump gets called out so much for religion is because of how much Evangelical Christians have used religion to justify their overwhelming support of him, and how he's made a "show" of his religious beliefs with the white house prayer circles and the photo op of holding a bible upside down in front of a church, etc 

Edited November 17, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[AU9377 4,966]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Well let’s see. Hillary tried once to take over health care by the government. Failed thank goodness. Obama clearly does not like the US as stated in at least two of his books that I have read the passages from. Biden is incapable of writing anything on his own as evidenced by serial plagiarism but he certainly acts like he wants to make significant changes to our completely unfair system that allowed a lunch bucket commuter to now be worth double digit millions despite never making more than $180k per year.

Joe as a devout Catholic broke up an apparently happy marriage after his wife was killed and married Hunter’s babysitter.  As bad as Trump? Not if you are keeping score. But bad enough to say extremely sinful as defined by your own church that you say you are devoutly devoted to? Yup. 
 

You are right the church should stay out of politics.  But if you claim to be a devout Catholic and then openly and publicly defy their tenets, then don’t be surprised if somebody notices.

I'm assuming some little green man on Youtube told you these things because they are nothing but fiction.  Hillary was tasked by her husband, while she was First Lady, to develop a proposal that would overhaul the health care system in this country.  How you develop a fictional narrative that claims she "tried to take over health care" is beyond me.  It was badly needed at that time and only got worse as a result of some Republicans choosing to side with big pharma and corporate profits over what was in the best interests of the average American.  We are headed toward a system of universal coverage. 

The rest of the intelligent countries on the planet have already concluded that this is the most efficient way to ensure that their citizens receive the care that they deserve.  Unfortunately, we stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the fact that we spend 6 times what is spent in a country like the U.K. and receive the same level of care.  Providing preventive care alone would save hundreds of millions of dollars and, more importantly, save lives.

Serial plagiarism?  Only if you are referring to something that happened over 30 years ago one time.

Obama says nothing of the sort in his books.  Being critical of the government is allowed in this country.  God knows, we have no shortage of situations in which the U.S. government deserves criticism.

Newsflash:  When you have served as Vice President of the United States of America, people pay you large amounts of money to speak and even larger amounts to sit on their board of directors.  Welcome to America.

I'm not even going to get into the lie that claims Jill Biden was a baby sitter or some other patently absurd commentary.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

11 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Never understood why the Right embraced trump like they did. his whole life has been mocking everything they believe.

Don't overthink it, simply consider the alternative, Hillary. 

Don't believe me, ask them.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

5 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Except that this story isn't true. Jill Biden was never a babysitter for the Biden's and Biden didn't break up their marriage. They started dating in the same year that Jill got formally divorced, and were set up on a date through Joe's brother who already knew Jill.

jj just repeats dumb s*** he hears from right wing wacko programs and blogs.  Truth doesn't matter so long as it's a good story he can use to take a whack at his political enemies.

 

 

[homersapien 11,387]

I get so tired of listening to MAGAs passing on lies and distortions as facts.

I was having a discussion with my mother about vaccinations and she told me that even "Kamala Harris said she wouldn't take it". (She's an avid viewer of Tucker Carlson and Fox prime time.)

I had just arrived that afternoon but that just set me off. I got back into my car and drove back home, through Atlanta in the evening rush hour. (about 600 miles round trip.)

Knowing my mother is being victimized by a ******* TV network depresses the hell out of me. I can't do anything about it. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

26 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I get so tired of listening to MAGAs passing on lies and distortions as facts.

I was having a discussion with my mother about vaccinations and she told me that even "Kamala Harris said she wouldn't take it". (She's an avid viewer of Tucker Carlson and Fox prime time.)

I had just arrived that afternoon but that just set me off. I got back into my car and drove back home, through Atlanta in the evening rush hour. (about 600 miles round trip.)

Knowing my mother is being victimized by a ******* TV network depresses the hell out of me. I can't do anything about it. 

It is just exhausting. 

The Conservative news and online eco-system is just an unending torrent of fake stories, false information, and smudged, cherry picked statistics that never ends. Most of the time it's not even good or elaborate stories, it's just stuff that anyone could google and within a few mins see that it had no basis in reality.

It rarely does any good to correct them or point them to the correct information, because they never self reflect on WHY it is they believed or received the false information, they just shrug it off and continue to use the same fake and unreliable sources for all their news and info going forward, which just perpetuates the cycle. 

 

When my close family says something stupid or untrue regarding politics I've learned just to bite my tongue, don't engage and just wait till the topic moves on to something else.

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

And For full disclosure, 

Jills 72yo  ex-husband has claimed in a 2020 media interview that Jill cheated on him with Biden and says Jill and Biden started dating while he and Jill were still together, but Both Biden, Jill, and their families have said none of this is true and that the Ex is making up the story for attention and to try and sell a book.

From what I can find, the ex husband has no proof of his story, and there doesn't seem to be any corroborating stories or evidence that supports his claim. Jill and Bidens timeline of their relationship in books, interviews, and with friends has always been consistent. 

Jills ex husband has in the past been convicted of financial fraud crimes. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[AUFAN78 3,911]

21 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

jj just repeats dumb s*** he hears from right wing wacko programs and blogs.  Truth doesn't matter so long as it's a good story he can use to take a whack at his political enemies.

 

 

I'm reminded of dumb s*** Russian stories regurgitated ad nauseum over a 4 year period. Wacko programs and blogs? Uh yes, too many to mention on that particular matter.  

We have to come to a place where we acknowledge truth and stop being self absorbed in bubbles, but I see no end sadly. Whacking political enemies is the new daily goal. Unity my a$$. Too few care.

Edited November 19, 2021 by AUFAN78

[TitanTiger 20,499]

3 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I'm reminded of dumb s*** Russian stories regurgitated ad nauseum over a 4 year period. Wacko programs and blogs? Uh yes, too many to mention on that particular matter.  

We have to come to a place where we acknowledge truth and stop being self absorbed in bubbles, but I see no end sadly. Whacking political enemies is the new daily goal. Unity my a$$. Too few care.

You’re talking about randos and I’m talking about a  regular MO of a frequent poster in this forum. This things are not the same. But nice attempt at deflection. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:38 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

 

Except that this story isn't true. Jill Biden was never a babysitter for the Biden's and Biden didn't break up their marriage. They started dating in the same year that Jill got formally divorced, and were set up on a date through Joe's brother who already knew Jill.

Difference being that Joe Biden wasn't elected because of his Catholicism. I'd wager very, very few Biden voters care about his religion at all. 

The reason Trump gets called out so much for religion is because of how much Evangelical Christians have used religion to justify their overwhelming support of him, and how he's made a "show" of his religious beliefs with the white house prayer circles and the photo op of holding a bible upside down in front of a church, etc 

My apologies to you and Jill for the babysitter story.  I was wrong to repeat that without personally verifying it which I did not.

The other two I stand behind. Yeah Hillary was appointed by Bill to revamp healthcare. Nobody said she wasn’t and it is irrelevant so as you like to say, nice deflection. Her proposal was in fact ultimately a takeover of health care by the government.

Obama did in fact speak of disliking this country in his two books which you obviously did not read. Maybe before you say it is a lie you should check.

Joe was in effect elected aided by his Catholicism. He garnered millions of Catholic votes BECAUSE  he was a self proclaimed devout Catholic. So yes that was a factor as you seem to have discarded while trying to mock Trump and the Christians who voted for him.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

You’re talking about randos and I’m talking about a  regular MO of a frequent poster in this forum. This things are not the same. But nice attempt at deflection. 

Negative. I am speaking directly about frequent posters on this very forum (and thread) and their MO. Things are indeed the same despite your attempt at deflection. Nice try though. 

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

I get so tired of listening to MAGAs passing on lies and distortions as facts.

I was having a discussion with my mother about vaccinations and she told me that even "Kamala Harris said she wouldn't take it". (She's an avid viewer of Tucker Carlson and Fox prime time.)

I had just arrived that afternoon but that just set me off. I got back into my car and drove back home, through Atlanta in the evening rush hour. (about 600 miles round trip.)

Knowing my mother is being victimized by a ******* TV network depresses the hell out of me. I can't do anything about it. 

Didn’t you take your mother to a ballgame a few years ago when she was like 87? You should be proud that she understands who Tucker and Kamala are without being a snowflake about it.