The Not-So-Hidden Reason For Republicans’ Student Loan Anger

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

20 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Most people from the south as well as myself have ancestors that were confederates soldiers. Should we be shameful and denounce them as bad?

I have an older German co-worker who's father was forcibly enlisted in the German military in WW2. 

Their father was not a bad person and was not a willing participant of the crimes and goals of the Nazi Government they fought in war for, but that does not mean that my co-worker celebrates or honors what their father was forced to fight for. 

Similarly, no, descendants of Confederate soldiers should not shame or denounce their family members for simply participating in a war during their time, but people should similarly not celebrate or honor the goals, reasons, or leaders that their descendants fought for. 

Yes, many confederates were defending their homes and families, but they were forced to defend their homes due to the goals and actions of their Confederate Government. It makes no sense to honor the same confederate government and culture that brought ruin and suffering to so many.  

[icanthearyou 4,462]

20 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Most people from the south as well as myself have ancestors that were confederates soldiers. Should we be shameful and denounce them as bad?

That is not the question.

Should you be proud of inhumanity and treason?  Southerners need to come to terms with the fact that they were manipulated into a ungodly cause by the wealthiest among them.

So the question is,,,  is there anything about the confederacy to be proud of?  For me, the answer is,,, there is nothing to be proud of, celebrate about, romanticize.  I have no use for human beings who are proud of being inhumane.  I pity those who died or, were maimed for the economic interest of the "upper" class.

Flags and statues that celebrate the confederacy are wrong.  There was NO honor in the confederacy.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,803]

16 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

That is not the question.

Should you be proud of inhumanity and treason?  Southerners need to come to terms with the fact that they were manipulated into a ungodly cause by the wealthiest among them.

So the question is,,,  is there anything about the confederacy to be proud of?  For me, the answer is,,, there is nothing to be proud of, celebrate about, romanticize.  I have no use for human beings who are proud of being inhumane.  I pity those who died or, were maimed for the economic interest of the "upper" class.

Flags and statues that celebrate the confederacy are wrong.  There was NO honor in the confederacy.

 

No, the question was as I asked. Coffee gave a reasonable and courteous reply. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

32 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

No, the question was as I asked. Coffee gave a reasonable and courteous reply. 

I'm sorry.  I thought you posed the question directly to me.

If you are proud of the confederacy, I question your sense of humanity and decency.

[SaltyTiger 7,803]

22 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I'm sorry.  I thought you posed the question directly to me.

If you are proud of the confederacy, I question your sense of humanity and decency.

It was directed to you. Your apology is accepted 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

5 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

That is not the question.

Should you be proud of inhumanity and treason?  Southerners need to come to terms with the fact that they were manipulated into a ungodly cause by the wealthiest among them.

So the question is,,,  is there anything about the confederacy to be proud of?  For me, the answer is,,, there is nothing to be proud of, celebrate about, romanticize.  I have no use for human beings who are proud of being inhumane.  I pity those who died or, were maimed for the economic interest of the "upper" class.

Flags and statues that celebrate the confederacy are wrong.  There was NO honor in the confederacy.

 

You do realize there were a lot of slaves in the north also, not just in the states that seceded to form their own country. And where was the treason?

[jj3jordan 2,053]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Likewise.

That's exactly why you are a MAGA cultist and I am a rational, independent thinker. Your irrational and I'm not.

(And that's before we even address values, which informs both our conclusions.)

Persistently claiming Trump said something that he clearly did not is irrational. So sorry homer, you are the irrational one. The truth is on my side, as it usually is when debating a democrat/liberal like you. 

 

[homersapien 11,373]

6 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Persistently claiming Trump said something that he clearly did not is irrational. So sorry homer, you are the irrational one. The truth is on my side, as it usually is when debating a democrat/liberal like you. 

 

We both know exactly what Trump said, as well as the context he said it in, so **** you. 

Cultist.

[jj3jordan 2,053]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

We both know exactly what Trump said, as well as the context he said it in, so **** you. 

Cultist.

Good comeback my friend. You know what else is irrational? Ignoring wisdom from your mother.

[SaltyTiger 7,803]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's a real stretch.

The demonstrators in question - one of the "sides" that Trump alluded to as having "good people" - were white supremacists.  The discussion we are having is not about the politics of the mid-19th century, the discussion is about the recent demonstrations in Charlottesville.

The statues - and the heritage associated with them were simply used as a rallying point for those who wanted to demonstrate in support of white supremacy/white nationalism.  (And for logical reasons, considering that heritage was based on white supremacy.)

So, are you agreeing with Trump? 

Can a white supremacist be a "good person" by today's standards?

Trump condemned the supremacist as I recall.

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

35 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You do realize there were a lot of slaves in the north also, not just in the states that seceded to form their own country. And where was the treason?

 

Yes, it's well known that slavery existed in all areas of the United States, and then the South Seceded when it became apparent that abolitionist and anti-slavery sentiment was starting to take root in the north and becoming more prevalent in the Federal government. The South Succeeded in order to stop the Federal Government of the US from outlawing slavery. 

It was treason for the Confederate leaders because the Confederacy killed 350,000+ United States soldiers in their attempt to break apart the country. 

[homersapien 11,373]

11 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Trump condemned the supremacist as I recall.

Why do you suppose they apparently didn't get the message?

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-history-of-support-from-white-supremacist-far-right-groups-2020-9

Trump has repeatedly been endorsed by white supremacist groups and other far-right extremists, and they've looked to him as a source of encouragement

John Haltiwanger

Sep 30, 2020

 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/09/donald-trump-white-supremacists-my-people

White Supremacists And Me, A Love Story

Trump Reportedly Called White Supremacists “My People,” in Case It Wasn’t Clear He’s an Abject Racist

“These people love me. These are my people.”

 

 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/white-supremacy-returned-mainstream-politics/

How White Supremacy Returned to Mainstream Politics

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-trumps-response-to-white-supremacist-groups-means

What Trump’s response to white supremacist groups means

Sep 30, 2020 6:45 PM EDT

 

 

Again, I could go on......

[jj3jordan 2,053]

55 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

Yes, it's well known that slavery existed in all areas of the United States, and then the South Seceded when it became apparent that abolitionist and anti-slavery sentiment was starting to take root in the north and becoming more prevalent in the Federal government. The South Succeeded in order to stop the Federal Government of the US from outlawing slavery. 

It was treason for the Confederate leaders because the Confederacy killed 350,000+ United States soldiers in their attempt to break apart the country. 

All the north had to do was wish us luck and open up trading with us and we would have avoided the war. Nobody but the north wanted war. The south just had to fight it. The north did not want to give up their slaves either.  As you say the north ultimately decided anti slavery sentiment was taking root in the north. They did not have to fight the war. 

 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

58 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Why do you suppose they apparently didn't get the message?

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-history-of-support-from-white-supremacist-far-right-groups-2020-9

Trump has repeatedly been endorsed by white supremacist groups and other far-right extremists, and they've looked to him as a source of encouragement

John Haltiwanger

Sep 30, 2020

 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/09/donald-trump-white-supremacists-my-people

White Supremacists And Me, A Love Story

Trump Reportedly Called White Supremacists “My People,” in Case It Wasn’t Clear He’s an Abject Racist

“These people love me. These are my people.”

 

 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/white-supremacy-returned-mainstream-politics/

How White Supremacy Returned to Mainstream Politics

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-trumps-response-to-white-supremacist-groups-means

What Trump’s response to white supremacist groups means

Sep 30, 2020 6:45 PM EDT

 

 

Again, I could go on......

And you’d be wrong. This is the same old recycled stuff including the lie about good people on both sides perpetuating the lie just like democrats always do because they cannot win on their true platform.  CP5? I’m not knowledgeable about the 1989 crime that they admitted to. If convicted yes the death penalty would have been appropriate. Hopefully the serial rapist got the death penalty but I doubt it. The squad have different ethnic backgrounds and may have been born here but their ultimate goal is the destruction of this country. Replacing it with a Muslim caliphate. And you and your ilk are happy to help them. So yeah if they like seventh century life and sharia law, they should go back. Not because they are of color because they hate this country. Yeah he banned unvetted travelers from certain Muslim countries ( by the way moron, Muslim is not a race so he can’t be a racist for banning them)  but allowing travelers from 37 other Muslim countries.  Obama??? Are you serious? That rumor was started by Hillary Clinton!! Or did you forget she was the one who started it. Good grief Man can you go any lower? And trotting out Paul Ryan, a guy democrats pictured rolling grandma off the cliff because he was a noted Trump hater. Now all of a sudden Paul Ryan is honorable? Please. Dude. Get some new material. All these lies and made up stuff is super boring, ineffective because it is not true, and exposes your helplessness to be truthful in a discussion. I get it you hate him. Just say it and let it go. It’s all you got.

 

 

[homersapien 11,373]

21 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

All the north had to do was wish us luck and open up trading with us and we would have avoided the war. Nobody but the north wanted war. The south just had to fight it. The north did not want to give up their slaves either.  As you say the north ultimately decided anti slavery sentiment was taking root in the north. They did not have to fight the war. 

 

Man you obviously know squat about what caused the civil war. You are embarrassing yourself.  

I suggest you check out the following book. Your local library may have it.

"Apostles of Disunion" by Charles Dew.

https://www.supersummary.com/apostles-of-disunion/summary/