OSHA Seeks to add Union Reps to Inspections

[autigeremt 6,135]

I thought this was interesting.

https://www.ehstoday.com/standards/osha/article/21277389/osha-seeks-to-add-union-reps-to-inspections?o_eid=8351D6722301A0C&oly_enc_id=8351D6722301A0C&rdx.ident[pull]=omeda|8351D6722301A0C&utm_campaign=CPS231115010&utm_medium=email&utm_source=OZ+EHS+Today+Daily+Update

[homersapien 10,932]

Good idea IMO.

[GoAU 1,561]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:12 AM, homersapien said:

Good idea IMO.

Not surprised.  What exactly do you think would be beneficial from this arrangement?  

[DKW 86 7,172]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:49 PM, GoAU said:

Not surprised.  What exactly do you think would be beneficial from this arrangement?  

That obvious injury and safety failures would be placed at a level where they would get fixed.

EXAMPLE: We had an area by the packing machine where half of the operators WERE EXPECTED to walk on a moving conveyor when it came time for job rotation. 
Wait, you want to cut the line off for that? Well hell no! we might lose half a unit of production every two hours. We cannot have that. So, when I got back from my meniscus surgery, the day I came back in fact, I tripped on a new unmarked metal piece used as a rail for loading the cardboard into the packing machine and fell into the open conveyor system at that point and got dragged 4-5 feet down the conveyor assembly before they could cut the line off. Tore other meniscus at that time and they started to write me up for being on drugs since I had just come back from surgery. I passed the piss test and that all went away. Suddenly after I made them write the incident up, there was a rail placed there like should have been for 19 years. They changed the procedure for changing people out by cutting off the conveyor for ten seconds during operator rotation. They also painted the new rail on the floor yellow. 

Maybe with a Union Rep there, all that happens day one, no one gets hurt and it cost the company peanuts to do it correctly the first time. 

Edited November 20 by DKW 86

[homersapien 10,932]

15 hours ago, GoAU said:

Not surprised.  What exactly do you think would be beneficial from this arrangement?  

The purpose of OSHA is to promote safety in companies.  (As  someone who worked in a foundry pre-OSHA, I can attest to the need.)

The benefits of including people in inspections/audits who actually work in the subject company should be self-evident.

[homersapien 10,932]

11 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

That obvious injury and safety failuers would be placed at a level where they would get fixed.

EXAMPLE: We had a area by the packing machine where half of the operators WERE EXPECTED to walk on a moving conveyor when it came time for job rotation. 
Wait, you want to cut the line off for that? Well hell no! we might lose half a unit of production every two hours. We cannot have that. So, when I get back from my menicus 
surgery, the day I came back in fact, I tripped on an new unmarked metal piece used as a rail for loading the cardboard into the packing machine, and fell into the open conveyor system at that point and got dragged 4-5 feet down the coveyor assembly before they could cut the line off. Tore other meniscus at that time and they started to write me up for being on drugs 
since I had just come back of from surgery, I passed the piss test and that all went away. Suddenly after I made them write the incident up, there was a rail placed there like should have been for 19 years. They changed the procedure for changing people out by cutting off the conveyor for ten seconds dueing operator rotation. They also painted the new rail on the floor yellow. 

Maybe with a Union Rep there, all that happens day one, no one get hurt and it cost the company peanuts to do it correctly the first time. 

I've got stories that are worse than that while working at a steel byproducts foundry in Birmingham - unguarded high speed belts (snatched a shovel from my hands and broke it like a matchstick, the drive chain took the finger off another worker another time), unguarded terminal connectors (on floor) with 660 volts running through it, unfastened safety blocks preventing a cupola from descending and crushing workers who were shoveling waste slag from the bottom of a pit....

[GoAU 1,561]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

The purpose of OSHA is to promote safety in companies.  (As  someone who worked in a foundry pre-OSHA, I can attest to the need.)

The benefits of including people in inspections/audits who actually work in the subject company should be self-evident.

I’ve been running manufacturing facilities for over 25 years and have dealt with OSHA on several occasions, so I am well aware of what their role is.   
 

I have also led several unionized facilities and find it ironic that the same unions that file grievances every time an employee is disciplined for failing to follow safety rules is going to be present to supposedly “help” OSHA.  
 

OSHA inspectors are perfectly capable of ensuring that safety rules are followed without some union steward using that as a chance to “get even” with management.   
 

Of course, if the union is willing to have joint accountability for the conduct of its members, that could change things.  

[AU9377 4,268]

On 11/18/2023 at 4:21 PM, GoAU said:

I’ve been running manufacturing facilities for over 25 years and have dealt with OSHA on several occasions, so I am well aware of what their role is.   
 

I have also led several unionized facilities and find it ironic that the same unions that file grievances every time an employee is disciplined for failing to follow safety rules is going to be present to supposedly “help” OSHA.  
 

OSHA inspectors are perfectly capable of ensuring that safety rules are followed without some union steward using that as a chance to “get even” with management.   
 

Of course, if the union is willing to have joint accountability for the conduct of its members, that could change things.  

Unions can be a burden, but without them, what power would employees have?  Without any rules, employees would be even more of a disposable resource.  Without organized labor, there would have been no restrictions on hours worked, conditions, health benefits or many other things that people take for granted.

Like anything, it sometimes goes too far, but many times it is the only thing standing between corporate greed and a powerless employee.

[GoAU 1,561]

13 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Unions can be a burden, but without them, what power would employees have?  Without any rules, employees would be even more of a disposable resource.  Without organized labor, there would have been no restrictions on hours worked, conditions, health benefits or many other things that people take for granted.

Like anything, it sometimes goes too far, but many times it is the only thing standing between corporate greed and a powerless employee.

I’m not saying there was never a need for unions, but I’m saying that their time has come and past.  There is nothing a union does now that isn’t already covered by law or a free market economy.   In most cases they inhibit addressing problem employees, take advantage of their own membership, and drive so much cost into operations that they end up driving plants out of business or layoffs. 
 

Just curious if you’ve ever worked in, or supervised employees in a unionized facility (specifically manufacturing).  

[DKW 86 7,172]

2 hours ago, GoAU said:

I’m not saying there was never a need for unions, but I’m saying that their time has come and past.  There is nothing a union does now that isn’t already covered by law or a free market economy.   In most cases they inhibit addressing problem employees, take advantage of their own membership, and drive so much cost into operations that they end up driving plants out of business or layoffs. 
 

Just curious if you’ve ever worked in, or supervised employees in a unionized facility (specifically manufacturing).  

I have worked in several Production Plants. It is a plant by plant thing. You can have a great EHS Team and you can have Mgt Yes Men. The difference is not across an industry nor even an employer. Either your EHS people are there to protect, or they are there to job hold. 

[CoffeeTiger 4,683]

6 hours ago, GoAU said:

I’m not saying there was never a need for unions, but I’m saying that their time has come and past.  There is nothing a union does now that isn’t already covered by law or a free market economy.   In most cases they inhibit addressing problem employees, take advantage of their own membership, and drive so much cost into operations that they end up driving plants out of business or layoffs. 
 

Just curious if you’ve ever worked in, or supervised employees in a unionized facility (specifically manufacturing).  

I don't agree with that. The point of a union is to have collective bargaining among employees to help protect employee rights and empower employees to ask for pay and benefits that they would never have the influence to get if they were "negotiating individually".

 

Corporations spend a ton of money on Human resources, lawyers, and political lobbying to have US labor laws and regulations written as much in the Corporations favor as possible. Properly run unions provide at least a little counterbalance to give the common worker more combined resources and clout to have their voice made part of the conversation. 

 

There will always be a place for labor unions. 

[SaltyTiger 7,346]

See no problem with an appointed rep. From my experience OSHA inspectors spend as much time as they please or feel needed with rank and file labor during inspections. 
 

Speaking from a construction industry view and unions are pretty much non existent in our area.

[GoAU 1,561]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:36 PM, DKW 86 said:

I have worked in several Production Plants. It is a plant by plant thing. You can have a great EHS Team and you can have Mgt Yes Men. The difference is not across an industry nor even an employer. Either your EHS people are there to protect, or they are there to job hold. 

I disagree with part of this - it is not solely the role of the EHS team, it is the role of all employees to keep safe.  As a Plant Manager and DoO, it is / was always my first responsibility to keep every employee safe.  The EHS team certainly facilitates that, but it has to start at the top.  I can’t think of a single manufacturing leader I’ve ever met that felt otherwise.   
 

If I ever had a planet manager or other manager in one of my operations that didn’t share this belief, they would be better suited to move along.  

[GoAU 1,561]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:57 PM, CoffeeTiger said:

I don't agree with that. The point of a union is to have collective bargaining among employees to help protect employee rights and empower employees to ask for pay and benefits that they would never have the influence to get if they were "negotiating individually".

 

Corporations spend a ton of money on Human resources, lawyers, and political lobbying to have US labor laws and regulations written as much in the Corporations favor as possible. Properly run unions provide at least a little counterbalance to give the common worker more combined resources and clout to have their voice made part of the conversation. 

 

There will always be a place for labor unions. 

The pay is more affected by what the market allows than what the union can ask for.  
 

The term “properly run” is key, as I haven’t seen too many of those.  They are usually more senior employees that are self serving and hide behind “seniority” rather than merit.  But, I’ll sure there are some out there….