New QB Spring Leaders

[DAG 34,028]

The sad thing is, there are a lot of haters out there, too, who are as anti one player as they are pro another. They are often the ones who label people "fan boy" when a lot of us are just trying to point out the strengths and weakness of each player for an informed discussion. I get labeled a Sean fanboy, frequently, but that's really because he's the most maligned player for completely ludicrous reasons, while also being the most developed of our QBs, so I defend him more than Jeremy or John.

The truth is, I would hope that everyone would agree that, in a perfect world, Jeremy would get his crap together and be our starter because he has the biggest upside in size and athleticism. Second best would probably be John becoming a reliable passer and putting on a little bulk, since he can bring that second dimension. As has been mentioned, for Sean to be a world beater, everyone else on O will need to step up their game too... but he brings the most to the table, today.

Yet, you label people haters who just aren't particularly on the SW bandwagon. Consider me one of those people. I think SW has tons of potential. I do NOT think (Again, this is my opinion) that he is a game changing player. I believe if the talent around him excels than we can be very good starting with the running game. Personally, I haven't seen enough out of any of them to say this person or that person brings the most to the table. IMO, I believe JJ has the most potential out of all of them, not SW. I think SW has the best accuracy out of all of them, I give him that. I always hear, look at the Arkansas game. SW played GREAT in the Arkansas game. His receivers completely failed him, but then I look at the Memphis game and SW did not play so great against them. You have to look at an argument for both sides. The fact of the matter is, SW faced some of the worst statistically secondary teams. Ole miss (101st ranked), Memphis (115th ranked) and Arkansas (121st ranked) passed defense. I expect every single one of our QBs to be able to pass on those type of teams. I also expect our WRs to make plays against those type of secondaries. It is two-fold. My biggest concern with SW is the fact that he hasn't faced a legit, top to bottom defense. He didn't have to face LSU, He didn't have to face Alabama and he was about to die against UGA (This was our coaches fault, btw). It is not just him. I have to see JJ break his mental blockage from the QB position. I hope he does because he realistically gives us the best chance to win, based on who we have. I have to see JF3 make the consistent throw, stay durable and not TURN the ball over. If JF3 cannot do those things, then it is no point of him playing QB. Yet, Cole says these things and you guys hate him for it. I don't get it.

No... I call people haters when they attack anytime someone says something good about a player that they don't like. You don't have to be on anyone's bandwagon, but if you belittle their successes, that's hating.

As for the rest of what you wrote... other than quoting the statistics, you basically said exactly what I said, so I'm not sure where the disagreement is? We agree Sean is the most accurate and if we had to play today, the best bet, but he needs the whole team to step up to be a world beater. We agree that Jeremy has the best measurables and would be our best QB, if he can get his head right. We also agree that John appears to have a lot of work to do.

I will say, I judge Sean strictly on Mississippi State, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Ole Miss with consideration to the fact that he was held back against State and hurt against Ole Miss. Anything after that, he was playing with an injured foot and couldn't execute his mechanics, including against Memphis. Just like I judge Jeremy based on his performance in 2014 as well as 2015, which gives me hope for him. I can only judge John by video and "reports", so with him it's speculation... hopefully informed speculation, but speculation none the less.

As for Cole. People don't always pile on Cole for the content of his message. They pile on him because he has a tendency to be abrasive and defensive. He also has a tendency to attack other players in order to boost the player he is currently supporting. He and I went at it a little during the season when he was really pushing for Jovon getting more reps and dogging on Peyton, while refusing to acknowledge that Peyton was playing because he was a better pass blocker, not because anyone had anything against Jovon.

My issue isn't your assessment of the QBs. My issue is the way you guys react when other posters don't feel the same way as you do in terms of what is success. From my readings on this forum, I believe there was 1 maybe 2 posters who completely disregard SW play and therefore would fit the bill as a "hater." As for me, I do not necessarily see as a success that SW threw all over Arkansas, rather an expectation. I truly expected SW to throw all over Arkansas, seeing that he is a very accurate passer and Arkansas is very poor on pass defense. I also expect any qb on our roster to be able to lead us to victory against UK, just for the fact that we are flat out better than them, from a players and coaching perspective. I also wouldn't call JJ performance against J. State a success, seeing as we should've never been in that position, playing a home game. There are some things I expect, as a fan, from the elite players we have on this team. I expect us to be able to run all over Texas A&M. Why? Well because Texas A&M is not particularly good at rush defense. That is my prerogative. Now, you say he was injured in the games, he played poor in. I agree to an extent, but throwing a ball straight to a db just because you are about to get sack has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. Throwing into triple coverage has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. But you feel that way and that is your prerogative.

I personally do not have one single problem with SW. I think he is a good QB. I feel bad for the kid, because last year the coaching staff just flat out did not trust him. After his one interception, they completely went away from his strength in the MSU game. I also feel that they do not play to his strength. He is not a threat to run. We can sit here and say he is until we are blue in the face, but he does not have the speed nor the size. That doesn't mean he couldn't scamper for one or two big yardage runs, we saw it against MSU. But just because you can get away with that once or twice, doesn't make him a threat. The same way, a QB who is just not accurate, may make a play action pass. Sure he made that pass, but that doesn't mean he is a threat to consistently go deep. If Gus and Co can actually run the Tulsa offense with SW and utilize his strengths then I am all for it. However, if they stay with this QB-read principle with him, they are doing him a serious disfavor.

As for Cole. He can be sarcastic and abrasive if you push him to that point. Honestly, if you can't handle that, then really you would be much more obliged to not even have discourse with him. I know STAT is a numbers guy. If you don't have numbers to back up your point when discussing football topics with him, you are going to hit a crossroad. Metafour is super abrasive. If you engage in a discussion with him, you better be ready to have thick skin because his tone can make you feel stupid. If you are discussing with ellitor, try not to be sarcastic. He isn't very good with it. Literal to the tee. Many of the moderators are going to be pro-GUS all day, every day. You are not going to get anywhere trying to dissuade them of this. Point being, as a family, we are going to have so many different personalities and opinions. Like every family, I chose, who to engage with and who to just ignore. Lionheart, I chose to discuss these things with you because I respect your opinion, despite us having many differences.

[Barnacle 9,064]

LOL anyone saying I'm clueless based on my judgments of Sean White just not have watched Auburn football last year.

Gus excels in a zone-read offense. We don't need for Gus to mold his offense based around the QB which seems like what everyone on here is saying. We need to have a QB to fit the mold of a zone-read offense. JJ is undoubtedly better than SW at that. I'd prefer that we get JF3 to get the start anyway over them, but he seems to have some issues on his deep passes. Hmmmmmm.... If that doesn't sound familiar to back in 2013...... (Nick Marshall)

2008 Tulsa. No zone read. No DT QB.

2009 Auburn. Zone read, no DT QB.

Both set records. Both Gus offenses.

Your post is void of fact.

Chris Todd, just like Sean White, can't run the zone-read.....

What you are suggesting is that even if SW clearly shows himself to be the best option at quarterback in terms of how he handles the entire offense, that he should never see a snap because he can't run the zone read like you want him to. Just realize that this is the stake that you are clinging to. You would rather have a quarterback who better executes the zone read play quarterback than one who will win more games. Makes sense.

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Right, but I think you are really just saying running the zone-read play. So, what you want is someone who can run one play really well, and you think that will win Auburn football games. As opposed to say, someone who runs the other 95% of the playbook well, and isn't as effective at running the zone-read play. I disagree.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Are you completely missing the fact that several people have already negated that argument by showing you examples of how Gus can run a record breaking play action offense just as well as he can run a zone read offense, or are you just covering your ears and chanting "zone read, zone read, zone read" every time someone proves that you are incorrect on that point?

Based on what I saw on the field, last year, Sean has more natural talent and a better arm than Todd, so I'd be more than happy to see 2009 Auburn offense take the field next year and break some records... especially with Jovon and Roc in the backfield.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Well, and it doesn't really matter what offense Gus ran at Tulsa and what he has run at Auburn, etc. Personally, I believe his offense works best with a true dual threat quarterback, because it presents the most problems for defenses. But, you can only do what you can with the quarterbacks on your roster.

Right now, we don't have a true dual threat quarterback. We might by the time that fall comes around, but right now we just don't really know. That's what the spring and summer are for. These guys are going to continue to develop. If JFIII makes strides throwing the football, and the coaches trust him to run the entire offense, then he'll get a good shot at starting. If he can't, then he probably won't. Like Stat and many others have echoed, it comes down to who the coaches can trust to effectively run the entire offense. If JFIII can't hit the broad side of the barn, or can't learn the playbook, or can't hold onto the football, then he probably isn't the best option for us at quarterback, regardless of whether or not his running style "fits" what someone thinks Auburn's offensive identity is.

On the other hand, if SW (or JJ) is able to run the entire offense more effectively despite not running the ZR as well as JFIII, then they will likely start. Its not hard to understand. You can't rely upon one play and a quarterbacks ability to run one play to determine who starts. Its absurd.

[logan adams 333]

LOL anyone saying I'm clueless based on my judgments of Sean White just not have watched Auburn football last year.

Gus excels in a zone-read offense. We don't need for Gus to mold his offense based around the QB which seems like what everyone on here is saying. We need to have a QB to fit the mold of a zone-read offense. JJ is undoubtedly better than SW at that. I'd prefer that we get JF3 to get the start anyway over them, but he seems to have some issues on his deep passes. Hmmmmmm.... If that doesn't sound familiar to back in 2013...... (Nick Marshall)

2008 Tulsa. No zone read. No DT QB.

2009 Auburn. Zone read, no DT QB.

Both set records. Both Gus offenses.

Your post is void of fact.

Chris Todd, just like Sean White, can't run the zone-read.....

What you are suggesting is that even if SW clearly shows himself to be the best option at quarterback in terms of how he handles the entire offense, that he should never see a snap because he can't run the zone read like you want him to. Just realize that this is the stake that you are clinging to. You would rather have a quarterback who better executes the zone read play quarterback than one who will win more games. Makes sense.

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Right, but I think you are really just saying running the zone-read play. So, what you want is someone who can run one play really well, and you think that will win Auburn football games. As opposed to say, someone who runs the other 95% of the playbook well, and isn't as effective at running the zone-read play. I disagree.

Well look back at 2013. Our playbook was very, very simple. Or so it seemed. We had essentially 4 or 5 main plays, just the guards and tackles moved in different directions to confuse the defensive line.

[PoetTiger 1,901]

I really really really love offseason

Me too. Very entertaining.

Yes...some of the best stuff ever.

[logan adams 333]

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Are you completely missing the fact that several people have already negated that argument by showing you examples of how Gus can run a record breaking play action offense just as well as he can run a zone read offense, or are you just covering your ears and chanting "zone read, zone read, zone read" every time someone proves that you are incorrect on that point?

Based on what I saw on the field, last year, Sean has more natural talent and a better arm than Todd, so I'd be more than happy to see 2009 Auburn offense take the field next year and break some records... especially with Jovon and Roc in the backfield.

Uhhhhhhh, look at the offensive stats that Auburn put up in 2013 and 2014 under a ZONE-READ offense. The one example that has been presented to me with a play-action offense was when he was with Tulsa.

[Barnacle 9,064]

LOL anyone saying I'm clueless based on my judgments of Sean White just not have watched Auburn football last year.

Gus excels in a zone-read offense. We don't need for Gus to mold his offense based around the QB which seems like what everyone on here is saying. We need to have a QB to fit the mold of a zone-read offense. JJ is undoubtedly better than SW at that. I'd prefer that we get JF3 to get the start anyway over them, but he seems to have some issues on his deep passes. Hmmmmmm.... If that doesn't sound familiar to back in 2013...... (Nick Marshall)

2008 Tulsa. No zone read. No DT QB.

2009 Auburn. Zone read, no DT QB.

Both set records. Both Gus offenses.

Your post is void of fact.

Chris Todd, just like Sean White, can't run the zone-read.....

What you are suggesting is that even if SW clearly shows himself to be the best option at quarterback in terms of how he handles the entire offense, that he should never see a snap because he can't run the zone read like you want him to. Just realize that this is the stake that you are clinging to. You would rather have a quarterback who better executes the zone read play quarterback than one who will win more games. Makes sense.

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Right, but I think you are really just saying running the zone-read play. So, what you want is someone who can run one play really well, and you think that will win Auburn football games. As opposed to say, someone who runs the other 95% of the playbook well, and isn't as effective at running the zone-read play. I disagree.

Well look back at 2013. Our playbook was very, very simple. Or so it seemed. We had essentially 4 or 5 main plays, just the guards and tackles moved in different directions to confuse the defensive line.

Read my other post. The key is having a quarterback who can execute the offense, regardless of its simplicity. I'd love it if we had a guy who could run the zone read like Marshall and Mason did in 2013, but if they aren't able to execute the other parts of the offense efficiently enough to score points and win football games, then they probably shouldn't start.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

My issue isn't your assessment of the QBs. My issue is the way you guys react when other posters don't feel the same way as you do in terms of what is success. From my readings on this forum, I believe there was 1 maybe 2 posters who completely disregard SW play and therefore would fit the bill as a "hater." As for me, I do not necessarily see as a success that SW threw all over Arkansas, rather an expectation. I truly expected SW to throw all over Arkansas, seeing that he is a very accurate passer and Arkansas is very poor on pass defense. I also expect any qb on our roster to be able to lead us to victory against UK, just for the fact that we are flat out better than them, from a players and coaching perspective. I also wouldn't call JJ performance against J. State a success, seeing as we should've never been in that position, playing a home game. There are some things I expect, as a fan, from the elite players we have on this team. I expect us to be able to run all over Texas A&M. Why? Well because Texas A&M is not particularly good at rush defense. That is my prerogative. Now, you say he was injured in the games, he played poor in. I agree to an extent, but throwing a ball straight to a db just because you are about to get sack has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. Throwing into triple coverage has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. But you feel that way and that is your prerogative.

I personally do not have one single problem with SW. I think he is a good QB. I feel bad for the kid, because last year the coaching staff just flat out did not trust him. After his one interception, they completely went away from his strength in the MSU game. I also feel that they do not play to his strength. He is not a threat to run. We can sit here and say he is until we are blue in the face, but he does not have the speed nor the size. That doesn't mean he couldn't scamper for one or two big yardage runs, we saw it against MSU. But just because you can get away with that once or twice, doesn't make him a threat. The same way, a QB who is just not accurate, may make a play action pass. Sure he made that pass, but that doesn't mean he is a threat to consistently go deep. If Gus and Co can actually run the Tulsa offense with SW and utilize his strengths then I am all for it. However, if they stay with this QB-read principle with him, they are doing him a serious disfavor.

As for Cole. He can be sarcastic and abrasive if you push him to that point. Honestly, if you can't handle that, then really you would be much more obliged to not even have discourse with him. I know STAT is a numbers guy. If you don't have numbers to back up your point when discussing football topics with him, you are going to hit a crossroad. Metafour is super abrasive. If you engage in a discussion with him, you better be ready to have thick skin because his tone can make you feel stupid. If you are discussing with ellitor, try not to be sarcastic. He isn't very good with it. Literal to the tee. Many of the moderators are going to be pro-GUS all day, every day. You are not going to get anywhere trying to dissuade them of this. Point being, as a family, we are going to have so many different personalities and opinions. Like every family, I chose, who to engage with and who to just ignore. Lionheart, I chose to discuss these things with you because I respect your opinion, despite us having many differences.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Your expectations of the players exceed mine. I would also agree that the number of "haters" is pretty small, but it does bother me more than most things when they pop up, because I can't stop thinking that these are a bunch of kids who, even on a bad day, are playing above the level over 3/4 of the teams out there, and none of them deserve agenda based criticism. Also, please don't think I'm calling anything you are saying agenda based. Your arguments are valid. I think I just look for potential instead of coming in with set expectations.

[AUpreacherman22 3,892]

Hey guys! Remember that time that JF3 was being coached by CDC to become the next biggest DTQB sensation?

Good times!

Lol!

I'm looking forward to the Spring game on Saturday.

And to the discussion on this board that will follow.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Big shout out to logan adams for doubling down on every single inaccurate talking point that was ever uttered about Gus Malzahn's offense. I mean, my goodness, you're breathtakingly wrong, but you are sticking to your guns despite very heavy return fire. There's something to be said for that kind of moxie.

[DAG 34,028]

My issue isn't your assessment of the QBs. My issue is the way you guys react when other posters don't feel the same way as you do in terms of what is success. From my readings on this forum, I believe there was 1 maybe 2 posters who completely disregard SW play and therefore would fit the bill as a "hater." As for me, I do not necessarily see as a success that SW threw all over Arkansas, rather an expectation. I truly expected SW to throw all over Arkansas, seeing that he is a very accurate passer and Arkansas is very poor on pass defense. I also expect any qb on our roster to be able to lead us to victory against UK, just for the fact that we are flat out better than them, from a players and coaching perspective. I also wouldn't call JJ performance against J. State a success, seeing as we should've never been in that position, playing a home game. There are some things I expect, as a fan, from the elite players we have on this team. I expect us to be able to run all over Texas A&M. Why? Well because Texas A&M is not particularly good at rush defense. That is my prerogative. Now, you say he was injured in the games, he played poor in. I agree to an extent, but throwing a ball straight to a db just because you are about to get sack has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. Throwing into triple coverage has nothing to do with an injury. That is just not smart football. But you feel that way and that is your prerogative.

I personally do not have one single problem with SW. I think he is a good QB. I feel bad for the kid, because last year the coaching staff just flat out did not trust him. After his one interception, they completely went away from his strength in the MSU game. I also feel that they do not play to his strength. He is not a threat to run. We can sit here and say he is until we are blue in the face, but he does not have the speed nor the size. That doesn't mean he couldn't scamper for one or two big yardage runs, we saw it against MSU. But just because you can get away with that once or twice, doesn't make him a threat. The same way, a QB who is just not accurate, may make a play action pass. Sure he made that pass, but that doesn't mean he is a threat to consistently go deep. If Gus and Co can actually run the Tulsa offense with SW and utilize his strengths then I am all for it. However, if they stay with this QB-read principle with him, they are doing him a serious disfavor.

As for Cole. He can be sarcastic and abrasive if you push him to that point. Honestly, if you can't handle that, then really you would be much more obliged to not even have discourse with him. I know STAT is a numbers guy. If you don't have numbers to back up your point when discussing football topics with him, you are going to hit a crossroad. Metafour is super abrasive. If you engage in a discussion with him, you better be ready to have thick skin because his tone can make you feel stupid. If you are discussing with ellitor, try not to be sarcastic. He isn't very good with it. Literal to the tee. Many of the moderators are going to be pro-GUS all day, every day. You are not going to get anywhere trying to dissuade them of this. Point being, as a family, we are going to have so many different personalities and opinions. Like every family, I chose, who to engage with and who to just ignore. Lionheart, I chose to discuss these things with you because I respect your opinion, despite us having many differences.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Your expectations of the players exceed mine. I would also agree that the number of "haters" is pretty small, but it does bother me more than most things when they pop up, because I can't stop thinking that these are a bunch of kids who, even on a bad day, are playing above the level over 3/4 of the teams out there, and none of them deserve agenda based criticism. Also, please don't think I'm calling anything you are saying agenda based. Your arguments are valid. I think I just look for potential instead of coming in with set expectations.

Well said sir!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

I think that we win more games with a QB that can best run the offense that Gus runs best, the zone-read.

Are you completely missing the fact that several people have already negated that argument by showing you examples of how Gus can run a record breaking play action offense just as well as he can run a zone read offense, or are you just covering your ears and chanting "zone read, zone read, zone read" every time someone proves that you are incorrect on that point?

Based on what I saw on the field, last year, Sean has more natural talent and a better arm than Todd, so I'd be more than happy to see 2009 Auburn offense take the field next year and break some records... especially with Jovon and Roc in the backfield.

Uhhhhhhh, look at the offensive stats that Auburn put up in 2013 and 2014 under a ZONE-READ offense. The one example that has been presented to me with a play-action offense was when he was with Tulsa.

Actually, you have now be presented for the third time... 2009... Auburn... Chris freakin' Todd, with a bad arm, broke multiple passing records and was ranked as the 18th best passer in the nation and #1 in the SEC. Not only that, but we only had 50 fewer yards and 2 fewer points per game than 2014... again, with a QB with a bad arm. That's all Gus, anyway you look at it. And since Sean has more natural skill than Todd, the numbers could be better if that's the way we need to go.

Look, no one is going to argue that we can't light it up with a Zone Read and a quality dual-threat QB, but to keep arguing that Gus can't rock the scoreboard with a play action offense is just denying history... at Tulsa AND Auburn.

[cole256 17,084]

Yep it was my fault, I shouldn't have ever said I think SW weakness is stretching the field lol. I forgot on here you have to say SW has no weaknesses!

My bad. And for the record I haven't EVER come after the fact and tried to pile on when two other people are having a disagreement.....You haven't ever for example saw me bump a thread and say tiger88 has a bad attitude.... that seems to behis demeanor every time he posts...also I haven't ever had a problem for saying JJ sucks but it's WWIII for me saying SW deep ball is his biggest weakness in his game...

Anybody on here can say what they want about how I supposedly feel about SW but nobody on here can say I've ever said anything worse than I think he's average to above average and he hasn't played a defense that's good yet and that's the absolute WORSE thing I've ever said about this guy, I've seen some of you talk worse about a junior prospect in high school.....If that upset some of you so bad...I mean,....sorry? I guess.

Manpon? Kleenex? Lighten up man, you're taking things a bit too seriously. If I was bored and had the urge I could debunk most of what you posted here, but I am busy and disinterested in arguing with you. Unlike yourself, I won't make that claim and then go on a multi thread rampage of arguments with half the board.

Right....sure you could lol

[cole256 17,084]

The sad thing is, there are a lot of haters out there, too, who are as anti one player as they are pro another. They are often the ones who label people "fan boy" when a lot of us are just trying to point out the strengths and weakness of each player for an informed discussion. I get labeled a Sean fanboy, frequently, but that's really because he's the most maligned player for completely ludicrous reasons, while also being the most developed of our QBs, so I defend him more than Jeremy or John.

The truth is, I would hope that everyone would agree that, in a perfect world, Jeremy would get his crap together and be our starter because he has the biggest upside in size and athleticism. Second best would probably be John becoming a reliable passer and putting on a little bulk, since he can bring that second dimension. As has been mentioned, for Sean to be a world beater, everyone else on O will need to step up their game too... but he brings the most to the table, today.

Yet, you label people haters who just aren't particularly on the SW bandwagon. Consider me one of those people. I think SW has tons of potential. I do NOT think (Again, this is my opinion) that he is a game changing player. I believe if the talent around him excels than we can be very good starting with the running game. Personally, I haven't seen enough out of any of them to say this person or that person brings the most to the table. IMO, I believe JJ has the most potential out of all of them, not SW. I think SW has the best accuracy out of all of them, I give him that. I always hear, look at the Arkansas game. SW played GREAT in the Arkansas game. His receivers completely failed him, but then I look at the Memphis game and SW did not play so great against them. You have to look at an argument for both sides. The fact of the matter is, SW faced some of the worst statistically secondary teams. Ole miss (101st ranked), Memphis (115th ranked) and Arkansas (121st ranked) passed defense. I expect every single one of our QBs to be able to pass on those type of teams. I also expect our WRs to make plays against those type of secondaries. It is two-fold. My biggest concern with SW is the fact that he hasn't faced a legit, top to bottom defense. He didn't have to face LSU, He didn't have to face Alabama and he was about to die against UGA (This was our coaches fault, btw). It is not just him. I have to see JJ break his mental blockage from the QB position. I hope he does because he realistically gives us the best chance to win, based on who we have. I have to see JF3 make the consistent throw, stay durable and not TURN the ball over. If JF3 cannot do those things, then it is no point of him playing QB. Yet, Cole says these things and you guys hate him for it. I don't get it.

No... I call people haters when they attack anytime someone says something good about a player that they don't like. You don't have to be on anyone's bandwagon, but if you belittle their successes, that's hating.

As for the rest of what you wrote... other than quoting the statistics, you basically said exactly what I said, so I'm not sure where the disagreement is? We agree Sean is the most accurate and if we had to play today, the best bet, but he needs the whole team to step up to be a world beater. We agree that Jeremy has the best measurables and would be our best QB, if he can get his head right. We also agree that John appears to have a lot of work to do.

I will say, I judge Sean strictly on Mississippi State, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Ole Miss with consideration to the fact that he was held back against State and hurt against Ole Miss. Anything after that, he was playing with an injured foot and couldn't execute his mechanics, including against Memphis. Just like I judge Jeremy based on his performance in 2014 as well as 2015, which gives me hope for him. I can only judge John by video and "reports", so with him it's speculation... hopefully informed speculation, but speculation none the less.

As for Cole. People don't always pile on Cole for the content of his message. They pile on him because he has a tendency to be abrasive and defensive. He also has a tendency to attack other players in order to boost the player he is currently supporting. He and I went at it a little during the season when he was really pushing for Jovon getting more reps and dogging on Peyton, while refusing to acknowledge that Peyton was playing because he was a better pass blocker, not because anyone had anything against Jovon.

Attack other players. See that's my point, perception about me is all messed up because you don't actually read what I say. When barber first started I said he wasn't a better runner than Robinson. I said he doesn't try to avoid defenders. Never attacked him, never said he sucked or anything. By the end of the season it was obvious. But since I disagreed with you it's a sin. You go with the word everything the coaches say, I don't. It doesn't make me better than you or you me. The only thing you have is what lashlee said.

I mentioned how Horton said Robinson was the best blocker out of the group. Seems suspect one guy could be the best of the group to can't play because he can't block at all. Then in some games and drives we weren't even passing. Then I saw barber give up some horrible sacks. Now you may not think that means anything but you see my thought process. I'm not trolling you, I'm not calling you stupid.

But yes you don't look at it from my perspective. I do get defensive when people put words in my mouth. I get defensive because I can't say anything without somebody trying to manipulate it like tiger88 just did by saying I need tampons or something like that after I replied back to him. Wouldn't ever had said anything to him if he didn't mention my name but if I reply back I'm doing something wrong....that gets frustrating. But it's no different when I talk and explain what I think than you. You defend all things SW and Gus no matter what. But hey you say what you feel justifies your position. If I do the same I'm defensive or it's a problem

[thaitopher 807]

Big shout out to logan adams for doubling down on every single inaccurate talking point that was ever uttered about Gus Malzahn's offense. I mean, my goodness, you're breathtakingly wrong, but you are sticking to your guns despite very heavy return fire. There's something to be said for that kind of moxie.

Stay strong Mr. Adams. This site likes to gang tackle in pods. I have been in your position a time or two. They will respect you more for it at the end. That said, I think you're full of crap.

[cole256 17,084]

Yep it was my fault, I shouldn't have ever said I think SW weakness is stretching the field lol. I forgot on here you have to say SW has no weaknesses!

My bad. And for the record I haven't EVER come after the fact and tried to pile on when two other people are having a disagreement.....You haven't ever for example saw me bump a thread and say tiger88 has a bad attitude.... that seems to behis demeanor every time he posts...also I haven't ever had a problem for saying JJ sucks but it's WWIII for me saying SW deep ball is his biggest weakness in his game...

Anybody on here can say what they want about how I supposedly feel about SW but nobody on here can say I've ever said anything worse than I think he's average to above average and he hasn't played a defense that's good yet and that's the absolute WORSE thing I've ever said about this guy, I've seen some of you talk worse about a junior prospect in high school.....If that upset some of you so bad...I mean,....sorry? I guess.

I think you got corrected because you made a unrefined statement when challenging SW's vertical passing game. Then you had to make several adjustments to your statement to justify your intent.

SW's main weakness is size and it may just be me, but he seems to have only a fast ball in his arsenal. A bit more touch (which comes with time) and he will be more productive. For whatever reason, after the first three games, JJ couldn't get out of the funk so they made the change for the MSU game. White is leading a balanced attack and once he throws his pick, the offensive play calling became more conservative to protect him in his first start. Regardless of who is at QB, I want someone who will be allowed to throw intermediate routes. The Arkansas game was a perfect example of SW throwing several 10-25 TD passes. However, we were plagued by drops that afternoon.

Unrefined how? What's the difference me saying what I think he's weak at and you saying size is his weakness? It's your opinion and if i don't agree I can either tell you why I don't or just say I don't. It's no big deal at all. It's just talking football.

And I haven't edited anything show me where I made several adjustments in my statement. One time and I didn't really have to but I did for clarity because is there a definition or reference measurement of vertical passing? I was talking about deep balls in my original statement I didn't change anything....But you just said that because somebody else said it. That wasn't true at all....But it's all about perspective and some members on here are very respected...I'm not one of those guys if you disagree with 3 people are going to be offended and argue. But I even said, I don't put work in to be like that so I respect it

[cole256 17,084]

Big shout out to logan adams for doubling down on every single inaccurate talking point that was ever uttered about Gus Malzahn's offense. I mean, my goodness, you're breathtakingly wrong, but you are sticking to your guns despite very heavy return fire. There's something to be said for that kind of moxie.

Hey I was your body guard an entire summer. When it got hot for me where you at? LOL. *Future voice* where was you when the message board was beefin...where was you when my keyboard was bleedin

[McLoofus 35,182]

Big shout out to logan adams for doubling down on every single inaccurate talking point that was ever uttered about Gus Malzahn's offense. I mean, my goodness, you're breathtakingly wrong, but you are sticking to your guns despite very heavy return fire. There's something to be said for that kind of moxie.

Hey I was your body guard an entire summer. When it got hot for me where you at? LOL. *Future voice* where was you when the message board was beefin...where was you when my keyboard was bleedin

True and guilty. Mea culpa, future256.

What Tex said is true, though, and I've said it before, too: Don't challenge Cole on his football knowledge. I'd put your chances of being wrong at about 95% (there are another 5% of the folks who I would say the same of). And if you don't read into his observations anything that he didn't say explicitly, then no, he doesn't hate on one player or love another. He calls it like he sees it. And he does a far better job than most of avoiding personal attacks on the character of the kids. And, yeah, we do it a lot more than we think we do. It's natural, but it's not right.

As far as the personal back and forth that he engages in, he's more persistent than I am, but I still can't point fingers. And at the end of the day, I bet he's the least likely person here to take anything said on the Internet to bed with him at night.

[Barnacle 9,064]

[AuburnEagle79 2,170]

For what it's worth, I've seen teams like Wofford, Mercer, and UTC run an efficient option attack with quarterbacks that have a skill set similar to Sean's, except arms nowhere near as good. It's not all about speed and elusiveness, but also decision making. If Sean can keep defenses honest with his legs, I'm all for him being the guy. I want the best quarterback that gives us the best chance to win to play. I don't care if his name is Sean, Jeremy, or James.

Also I realize that I gave 1-AA examples, but while they are a lower level, the talent level they play against is their equal, so the comparison stands.

[TAYLORKEETON 807]

I'm pulling for JF3. People talk about his arm & accuracy problems but looks at NM in 2013. He ran the zone read so well it made up for a lot of his throwing issues. Maybe the same thing can happen with JF3. If he can stay healthy.

[tiger88 934]

Yep it was my fault, I shouldn't have ever said I think SW weakness is stretching the field lol. I forgot on here you have to say SW has no weaknesses!

My bad. And for the record I haven't EVER come after the fact and tried to pile on when two other people are having a disagreement.....You haven't ever for example saw me bump a thread and say tiger88 has a bad attitude.... that seems to behis demeanor every time he posts...also I haven't ever had a problem for saying JJ sucks but it's WWIII for me saying SW deep ball is his biggest weakness in his game...

Anybody on here can say what they want about how I supposedly feel about SW but nobody on here can say I've ever said anything worse than I think he's average to above average and he hasn't played a defense that's good yet and that's the absolute WORSE thing I've ever said about this guy, I've seen some of you talk worse about a junior prospect in high school.....If that upset some of you so bad...I mean,....sorry? I guess.

Manpon? Kleenex? Lighten up man, you're taking things a bit too seriously. If I was bored and had the urge I could debunk most of what you posted here, but I am busy and disinterested in arguing with you. Unlike yourself, I won't make that claim and then go on a multi thread rampage of arguments with half the board.

So busy to argue, yet you have time at 6 A.M. to respond. That makes sense. I don't always agree with Cole, but he is right. There is definitely a faction of the fanbase who are SW fanboys. There is definitely a faction of the fanbase, who are DT fanboys ( Me) and there is the fanbase who doesn't give a crap, they just want everyone to graduate Auburn men. At the end of the day, I believe all factions want what is best for AU and will happily accept whoever Gus picks, as long as they produce.

What does 6 a.m. have to do with anything? My point was I was too busy to argue with cole which is usually a waste of breath. He also has a habit of indicating he doesn't want to argue then gets in atguments on multiple threads and I was ribbing him about that. A thread like this is like cole bait for him to rant.

I'm not sure why you responded with the other stuff, but it is fairly accurate. My response didn't say anything about the legitimacy of his argument. IMO hehas some valid points and some ridiculous stretches in the posts of his I read.

[tiger88 934]

From what I have heard JF3 needs to develop as a passer to claim the starting role. I would think he could could absorb enough of the O by fall to compete. NM only had a few weeks before his first start and did well. If JF is ready, I have no problem with him starting.

With the size of two of our qbs I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 start at some point during the season.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Yep it was my fault, I shouldn't have ever said I think SW weakness is stretching the field lol. I forgot on here you have to say SW has no weaknesses!

My bad. And for the record I haven't EVER come after the fact and tried to pile on when two other people are having a disagreement.....You haven't ever for example saw me bump a thread and say tiger88 has a bad attitude.... that seems to behis demeanor every time he posts...also I haven't ever had a problem for saying JJ sucks but it's WWIII for me saying SW deep ball is his biggest weakness in his game...

Anybody on here can say what they want about how I supposedly feel about SW but nobody on here can say I've ever said anything worse than I think he's average to above average and he hasn't played a defense that's good yet and that's the absolute WORSE thing I've ever said about this guy, I've seen some of you talk worse about a junior prospect in high school.....If that upset some of you so bad...I mean,....sorry? I guess.

I think you got corrected because you made a unrefined statement when challenging SW's vertical passing game. Then you had to make several adjustments to your statement to justify your intent.

SW's main weakness is size and it may just be me, but he seems to have only a fast ball in his arsenal. A bit more touch (which comes with time) and he will be more productive. For whatever reason, after the first three games, JJ couldn't get out of the funk so they made the change for the MSU game. White is leading a balanced attack and once he throws his pick, the offensive play calling became more conservative to protect him in his first start. Regardless of who is at QB, I want someone who will be allowed to throw intermediate routes. The Arkansas game was a perfect example of SW throwing several 10-25 TD passes. However, we were plagued by drops that afternoon.

Unrefined how? What's the difference me saying what I think he's weak at and you saying size is his weakness? It's your opinion and if i don't agree I can either tell you why I don't or just say I don't. It's no big deal at all. It's just talking football.

And I haven't edited anything show me where I made several adjustments in my statement. One time and I didn't really have to but I did for clarity because is there a definition or reference measurement of vertical passing? I was talking about deep balls in my original statement I didn't change anything....But you just said that because somebody else said it. That wasn't true at all....But it's all about perspective and some members on here are very respected...I'm not one of those guys if you disagree with 3 people are going to be offended and argue. But I even said, I don't put work in to be like that so I respect it

Literally your first response was that his weakness is his vertical passing game. Then on the same page you said yourself that vertical is subjective. Later, you go on to specify what you meant by vertical to fit your narrative. I didn't say you edited any posts (like the one I am responding to).

Size isn't subjective and is more qualitative than simply talking about vertical passing. I was saying his weakness is his size because he isn't a prototypical QB in terms of height. In fact, height only matter for seeing over your O line and being able to scan the field without having to worry about finding passing lanes. There have been many successful QBs to play at a high level at his height. SW has shown he can make many big time throws in stressful situations. If we look at this tape form the Arkansas game, he had a lot of drops, but one thing you will notice is he puts a lot of heat on his passes and tends to deliver the ball high on passes of 15+ yds or more from the line of scrimmage.

I was saying that if you qualified what vertical was, it would've helped you out early on. My intention wasn't to tell you that you were wrong, I was just offering an explanation as to why it occurred.