Insiders Hearing Anything? (Threads Merged)

[SocialCircle 570]

2 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Thanks for proving my point with Texas.  This is by far their worst recruiting year in the last 5 seasons.  They have been rated 3rd and 3rd and 7th and 8th up until this season.  TN was 10th last year and is worse this year. 

 

[keesler 5,928]

Just now, SocialCircle said:

Being in limbo is good only if you want to make it harder for us to win going forward.  If our administration believes Gus isn't the right coach going forward, then they should say so and buy him out and get on with hiring the next coach. 

Gus has had a hard time winning/competing vs the upper level teams for years while he was firmly in place with a long and lucrative contract in his possession.  Auburn's Administration believed he was the right coach for the future (in Greene's words) at the end of the 2018 season.  Yet Gus has turned in the same results every year.

I actually agree that the Administration needs to piss or get off the pot.  But I don't think the limbo phase he's in is the reason recruiting has tanked.  As metafour posted earlier, prospects went cold on Auburn long before his contract expiration fell within the 4 yr window.  

Recruiting supporters have grown apathetic and their backing is crucial every year for many reasons.  Once lost, they likely won't return until the needed change is made. 

[SocialCircle 570]

3 hours ago, auburn4ever said:

Others programs are killing us by telling recruits that Auburn won't make a coaching change and if you sign with Auburn, you'll be playing for a head coach who loses at least 4 games every year.  It's already happend during the last 7 years in a row.

This isn't true. And this argument works really well for Tennessee and LSU and most other teams not named Alabama or Georgia or Clemson or Ohio State.  

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, keesler said:

Gus has had a hard time winning/competing vs the upper level teams for years while he was firmly in place with a long and lucrative contract in his possession.  Auburn's Administration believed he was the right coach for the future (in Greene's words) at the end of the 2018 season.  Yet Gus has turned in the same results every year.

I actually agree that the Administration needs to piss or get off the pot.  But I don't think the limbo phase he's in is the reason recruiting has tanked.  As metafour posted earlier, prospects went cold on Auburn long before his contract expiration fell within the 4 yr window.  

Recruiting supporters have grown apathetic and their backing is crucial every year for many reasons.  Once lost, they likely won't return until the needed change is made. 

Prospects with good options want to know who their head coach is going to be. Gus is very well liked by recruits and by recruits families.  We agree that it is past time for our administration to make a call....one way or the other.  They are damaging the football program's future no matter who the head coach is by not doing so.  

[lca408 366]

3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

This isn't true. And this argument works really well for Tennessee and LSU and most other teams not named Alabama or Georgia or Clemson or Ohio State.  

What isn’t true? The Auburn won’t make a change part or the 4 losses a year part? Because the 4 losses a year thing......well you know.

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, lca408 said:

What isn’t true? The Auburn won’t make a change part or the 4 losses a year part? Because the 4 losses a year thing......well you know.

Other teams aren't telling recruits AU is keeping their head coach.  They are telling them you don't know who your coach is going to be and they are right because our administration is sitting on their hands when they should be taking action. 

[bigbird 60,577]

2 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

The primary reason our recruiting is significantly down is because our administration has our head coach in limbo.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. The apathy surrounding the program has made our "friends of the program" be turned off and unwilling to assist. Add to that our rivals hammering recruits with lame duck coach, poor player development, boring  ineffective offense, bad player utilization, and doesn't prepare you for the league recruiting pitches. Then Gus follows up the negative recruiting with terrible, stale  football and reinforces what the recruits have been told.  It's not that Gus is in limbo, it's that Gus has failed to prove our rivals wrong. 

[I_M4_AU 7,913]

2 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

P. Barber

D. Thomas 

J. Dean

Kerryon J.

Chandler Cox

M. Davidson

J. Driscoll 

Rudy Ford 

Roger McCreary

D. Slayton

Dee Ford

D. Russell

Prince Tega W. 

Nick Marshall

CAP

Carl Lawson

Marcus Davis

Braden Smith

Deshaun Davis

D. Lawrence

Eli Stove

T. Manning

KJ Britt

Z. McClain

Whitlow

A. Jackson

Shenker

S. Williams 

Caleb Johnson

K Jones

Wooden

Pritchett

Deal

Noah I. 

 

This list only proves that players can achieve their goals in spite of their coaching.

[SocialCircle 570]

12 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

If you look at the start ratings only, you're not focusing at the entire roster.  We've recruited the o line like complete **** for three years.

But why highly rated offensive players would come to Auburn right now, I honestly have no idea.  Malzahn's offense has produced exactly three Top 2 round draft picks in his entire tenure (B. Smith, G. Robinson, and K. Johnson).  If I'm a recruit with potential NFL talent and see that, there's no chance I'm coming to Auburn.

Just so you're aware, that number is fewer than Mizzou.

Players in the NFL from 2019 as I can't find the info for 2020: 

1. Alabama – 56 players
2. Ohio State – 44 players
3. Miami – 36 players
4. (tie) Florida, LSU – 35 players
5. Florida State – 32 players
6. Oklahoma – 31 players
7. Georgia – 29 players
8. Clemson – 28 players
9. Texas A&M – 27 players
10. (tie) Auburn, Penn State, Stanford, Wisconsin, Washington – 26 players

[SocialCircle 570]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. The apathy surrounding the program has made our "friends of the program" be turned off and unwilling to assist. Add to that our rivals hammering recruits with lame duck coach, poor player development, boring  ineffective offense, bad player utilization, and doesn't prepare you for the league recruiting pitches. Then Gus follows up the negative recruiting with terrible, stale  football and reinforces what the recruits have been told.  It's not that Gus is in limbo, it's that Gus has failed to prove our rivals wrong. 

Nothing has changed except our administration refuses to make a statement, so recruiting is way off from all other seasons Gus has been here. 

[bigbird 60,577]

6 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Prospects with good options want to know who their head coach is going to be.

For the top tier prospects, the more important variables are, will they be put in a position to showcase their talents and will they be developed enough to make it to the league.

[PigskinPat 2,579]

Ok, someone help me understand this because here’s the thing I don’t get. We keep talking about how the administration will probably wait until next year because the buyout drops from about $21 million this year to about $16 million next year and it will save the school about $5 million. But.... we still have to pay Gus his salary next season ($7 million) plus the buyout which would total $23 million, so we would actually owe Gus MORE money by waiting until next year. We would save about $2 million overall by pulling the trigger this year instead of waiting until next year, so why is this being used as the excuse? I know there’s covid, lost revenue this year, etc, but it’s not like he’s swinging by the athletic department on his way out to pick up a $21 million check if he’s let go after this season. Does anyone else see it the way I do?

[DAG 34,003]

20 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Thanks for proving my point with Texas.  This is by far their worst recruiting year in the last 5 seasons.  They have been rated 3rd and 3rd and 7th and 8th up until this season. 

They are till in the top 25! I see you forgot to mention Michigan ? So why are these schools in the top 25 and we are not even in the top 40? You bitched about people only quoting part of your post yet you just did the same thing. 

[The Freak 2,528]

1 minute ago, PigskinPat said:

Ok, someone help me understand this because here’s the thing I don’t get. We keep talking about how the administration will probably wait until next year because the buyout drops from about $21 million this year to about $16 million next year and it will save the school about $5 million. But.... we still have to pay Gus his salary next season ($7 million) plus the buyout which would total $23 million, so we would actually owe Gus MORE money by waiting until next year. We would save about $2 million overall by pulling the trigger this year instead of waiting until next year, so why is this being used as the excuse? I know there’s covid, lost revenue this year, etc, but it’s not like he’s swinging by the athletic department on his way out to pick up a $21 million check if he’s let go after this season. Does anyone else see it the way I do?

You have to pay the new staff too.

[Tiger 8,830]

On 12/8/2020 at 10:13 AM, Barnacle said:

I'm not sure if you are misunderstanding or not, and this is a conversation with a lot of nuance that will be difficult to have in this format, but I'll try and clarify as best as I can. 

I'm interested in whether Hugh Freeze is penitent. I'm interested in whether he's actually changed, or is actually committed to changing. I'm interested in whether he is genuine about repairing his relationship with his wife and children, or if he's saying and doing the things that potential employers like Auburn would like to see, for the sake of moving up in his profession. I do understand that how she or his children choose to respond to him is their business, but his commitment to earning their forgiveness is paramount. If we think that isn't relevant, or that it isn't any of our (the University's) business, then I don't think we need to interview him. It would be a mistake to hire a man like Hugh Freeze without vetting his home life. 

For better or worse, the University has chosen to embrace and sell the "Auburn Family." We sell family to our alumni and fans. We sell it to our coaches. The coaches sell it to our recruits. Here's the thing about Hugh Freeze - he is a salesman. He is a damn good salesman. He is going to sell the s*** out of the Auburn Family. He's going to bring kids and coaches over to his house. He's going to introduce them to his wife. He's going to introduce them to his children. He's going to prop all of that up to sell the program. 

I want to know if he's selling the truth, or if he's selling a lie. If he's selling the truth - that is, that he really is repentant, and he really is committed to his wife and kids, and he's really committed to changing, then he may be a risk worth taking - even if his wife and kids are still understandably in the process of forgiving him. It just needs to be genuine. 

Everyone on the staff at Ole Miss knew what was going on with Hugh and his escorts. It was not a big secret. Hugh was calling up girls on Friday night, and preaching to the team on Sunday morning. He lost the respect of many on his coaching staff for being such a blatant hypocrite. There were a lot of really angry people on that staff when the scandal came out. If he's not committed to the things that he's going to preach, and Tiger he's going to preach, then he will lose the respect of the staff at Auburn. He may lose the respect of the players, and that will bleed into recruits and recruits' parents. 

Finally, being a head football coach in the SEC is hard enough with a supportive family. Freeze is a man who leans toward recklessness. He was reckless in his recruiting at Ole Miss. He was reckless in his marriage. Why would we consider hiring a man with that type of personality, without first finding out whether he's committed to his support system, and whether those relationships are being repaired. If he's not committed, and that support system falls apart, then you've got a reckless man with no support underneath him. That's dangerous. The embarrassment that Hugh Freeze caused Ole Miss would be nothing like the embarrassment he would cause Auburn if it comes out that he's been caught cheating again - either on his wife, or on the recruiting trail. 

I think the dude is a phenomenal football coach. If he's a changed man - or if he's committed to being a changed man, then he may be a risk worth taking. If he's not, and if it turns out that he's not committed to repairing his relationships at home, then the last thing we need to do is to make him the figurehead of the Auburn Family. It will end in disaster. My .02. 

I appreciate you thoughtfully laying all of this out. I agree this topic is full of nuance and should be treated as such.

I think it's absolutely fair to want to know if he's a changed man. However, I think whether or not his family life has improved is based on a handful of individuals who have nothing to do with football so I don't see the relevance. If he's forgiven or not does not really have anything to do with whether or not he's a changed man. 

I pretty much agree to most of what you said. To me, bottom line is more about is he still a preachy guy during the day but hiring escorts at night? That to me that is the key to everything else you said because of the phoniness and hypocrisy and how that can be basis for undoing within a college football program. Players, their families, and coaches respect honesty and transparency and that part is what worries me more than how his family life has changed. If he's hiring hookers on his own time and from his own phones that's fine just don't make it a scandal and certainly don't act like he's above that type of behavior. Ya don't need to advertise it but don't be pretending to be something else.

I think we agree on why the hire could fail but we are just drawing the vetting line at different places. Again, I appreciate you explaining your thoughts further in an organized fashion

 

[atl-tiger 655]

4 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Nothing has changed except our administration refuses to make a statement, so recruiting is way off from all other seasons Gus has been here. 

There was a number of recruits basing their decision on the results we put on the field, especially Uga game. Recruiting took a nose dive after that embarrassing performance before this fire Gus really picked up in last couple of weeks. 

[PigskinPat 2,579]

8 minutes ago, The Freak said:

You have to pay the new staff too.

True, but we’d have to pay the new staff salaries next year if we hired a new staff then instead of this year, so we are still coming out to the good. And how much of that would be offset by Gus and the staff that is let go possibly finding new jobs and the revenue that is generated by fans with a renewed hope and optimism? I think it’s easy to say milllions in new revenue would be generated between now and next season by fans and alum that have been brought out of the apathy we are now in. We accused bama of selling their souls when they gave Saban his contract to come to bama, but since then he has generated probably 100’s of millions of dollars for the university with the product he has put on the field.

[Swamp Eagle 5,144]

2 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

P. Barber-decided he'd be better as a starter in the NFL than a part-time starter for Gus

D. Thomas - defensive player, not a Gus product

J. Dean-defensive player, not a Gus product

Kerryon J.-Gus ran him into late season uselessness possibly costing AU a shot at the CFP

Chandler Cox-most memorable play was the CoxCat Whirly-bird fiasco

M. Davidson-defensive player, not a Gus product

J. Driscoll - hardly can take credit for developing a 1-year transfer

Rudy Ford - Gus couldn't find anything for a 4.2 guy on offense, gave him to Steele

Roger McCreary-defensive player, not a Gus product

D. Slayton-took Gus 2 years to realize the guy could play

Dee Ford-defensive player, not a Gus product

D. Russell-defensive player, not a Gus product

Prince Tega W. - Gus developing OLs...LOL!

Nick Marshall-pure athletic ability that was God-given, not Gus-given

CAP-another under-utilized RB until late

Carl Lawson-defensive player, not a Gus product

Marcus Davis-was a beast as a freshman; hardly heard from him after that

Braden Smith-Gus developing OLs...LOL!

Deshaun Davis-defensive player, not a Gus product

D. Lawrence-defensive player, not a Gus product

Eli Stove-another under-utilized player, though injury was a factor

T. Manning-Gus developing OLs...LOL!

KJ Britt-defensive player, not a Gus product

Z. McClain-defensive player, not a Gus product

Whitlow-ran him ragged then ran him off...nice development

A. Jackson-Gus developing OLs...LOL!

Shenker-currently developing his blocking skills

S. Williams - Seth is just a natural talent who was already good when he got here

Caleb Johnson-defensive player, not a Gus product

K Jones-Gus developing OLs...LOL!

Wooden-defensive player, not a Gus product

Pritchett-defensive player, not a Gus product

Deal-currently developing his blocking skills

Noah I. -defensive player, not a Gus product

 

JMO

[I_M4_AU 7,913]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

Nothing has changed except our administration refuses to make a statement, so recruiting is way off from all other seasons Gus has been here. 

The silence from the AD’s office is deafening and it should tell you something.  It sounds like you know this as you would like Auburn to say something now and not wait.  The wait is the juicy part, we get to speculate what is going on as decisions are being made and we have no control over the situation.

The early signing period is a double edged sword.  It has cut in our favor in the past, but this year it has become a self fulfilling prophecy and we will just have to wait to see what direction Auburn decides to goes.

Speculating; with all our players receiving an extra year of eligibility and key players leaving for the NFL coupled with this year’s dismissal class, Auburn can either keep Gus for one more year and further devastate the program or replace him this year with new blood.

If we keep Gus, he would have to be fired during the season or we loose yet another recruiting class.

It becomes increasingly obvious what is the right thing to do for Auburn.  JMO.

[gctiger 937]

51 minutes ago, keesler said:

IF the Administration is keeping Gus in limbo then GOOD.

He has kept this program and the entire fan base in limbo for damn near a decade.  He makes promises to "fix this thing", "turn this thing around", "get our edge back" all while he's flipped flopped back and forth between being a "CEO type Coach and turning the offense over to the OC", to wanting to "be an offensive Coach again and taking 100% of the offense back", to "giving the offense back the OC".   

He is a man that has pulled millions and kept this program in limbo every dang season with his "gonna be a special year" and "the future is bright" bullS#!t.

So if the Administration has finally decided to turn the tables on him and keep him in limbo, then so be it.  I hope they stick to their guns and won't allow him to use the recruiting down slide as leverage to EXTORT ANOTHER EXTENSION out of them.  Honestly, Greene should be well versed in Gus' shenanigan's by now. I'd think Gus' promises and pledges fall on deaf ears where Greene is concerned. 

👍 

[bigbird 60,577]

15 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Nothing has changed except our administration refuses to make a statement, so recruiting is way off from all other seasons Gus has been here. 

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean things haven't changed.  The results of this class prove that things have definitely changed.

[Tiger 8,830]

I don't think we can afford to keep him for another year. 

If he's still around after this season, by 2025 we are going to look at 2020 as the year Auburn took the wrong fork in the road and the $16M or whatever the buyout drops to will look like it would've been sooooo worth it

[Tiger 8,830]

What are the chances Oregon is talking extension to Cristobal immediately after 2 ugly losses because they're feeling AU is gonna come calling?

[lca408 366]

7 minutes ago, atl-tiger said:

There was a number of recruits basing their decision on the results we put on the field, especially Uga game. Recruiting took a nose dive after that embarrassing performance before this fire Gus really picked up in last couple of weeks. 

Mims the big OL for one that I remember, and Scooby as well. Scoob was set to commit to Auburn and then UGA happened, followed closely by USC and then he commits to UF. That was well before a “statement” was supposedly needed on Gus’ viability as a coach, though the fans were pissed. Could be that a vote of confidence could help with a few lower rated guys but it’s not changing the minds of Kool-Aid, Mondon, Mims or Williams.

[bigbird 60,577]

16 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

Ok, someone help me understand this because here’s the thing I don’t get. We keep talking about how the administration will probably wait until next year because the buyout drops from about $21 million this year to about $16 million next year and it will save the school about $5 million. But.... we still have to pay Gus his salary next season ($7 million) plus the buyout which would total $23 million, so we would actually owe Gus MORE money by waiting until next year. We would save about $2 million overall by pulling the trigger this year instead of waiting until next year, so why is this being used as the excuse? I know there’s covid, lost revenue this year, etc, but it’s not like he’s swinging by the athletic department on his way out to pick up a $21 million check if he’s let go after this season. Does anyone else see it the way I do?

I've been saying the same thing for a while.  It just doesn't make sense to keep him.