Censorship

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Having a POTUS constantly promulgating a LIE about a fraudulent election that was "stolen" by our electoral system is a little more concerning than a "opinion' you disagree with. 

We had a clear demonstration of that last month. Perhaps Twitter and Facebook had (justifiable) concerns about the danger that Trump's lies and propaganda presented to the country.

As was mentioned, there are still plenty of right wing voices remaining on these platforms who are free to express their opinions but they don't command the allegiance of millions of simple-minded, armed acolytes primed for insurrection.

There are plenty of conservative voices on Parler too, oh wait a minute....

“Armed acolytes “.  Foreshadowing future agendas much?   

[GoAU 1,600]

2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Race, age, and gender are not reasons to discriminate as those are things that people don't choose, as codified by law and the Court.  You do, however, choose your opinions and a business is not required to offer you their platform to spout said opinions.  Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.  I certainly can't walk into a private golf club and start talking **** without expecting to be thrown out immediately.

He absolutely has the right to protest at his place of employment.  His employer can then choose whether or not that's punishable.  Now the NFL, being a collectively bargained league with unions, is a different animal than a random McDonald's employee who is an at will employee and can be fired for basically any reason.  If a McDonald's worker wants to be able to protest without punishment, create a union and negotiate.

Advice: Your arguments need to be stop being so grandiose, because it literally takes two seconds of though to poke holes in them.

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat myslef on this topic to you - it’s like talking to a wall. It only takes you two seconds  to argue the points you want to hear versus what is being said.  I am less concerned with individual companies than I am with conglomerations forming to control markets.  
 

The unionization of the NFL is not an issue if the owners know how to write a proper CBA.  And I’ve said before (and will again) my issue is not with CK and his opinions as much as it is with the NFL and giving that idiot a platform during “work time”.   It’s costing them a ton of money and viewers though, hope they learn that people watch football games to see football.   It is ironic how quick the NFL stepped in to prohibit the Dallas Cowboys from having a Helene sticker to honor the 6 police officers that were killed in Dallas though.   

[homersapien 11,373]

55 minutes ago, GoAU said:

There are plenty of conservative voices on Parler too, oh wait a minute....

“Armed acolytes “.  Foreshadowing future agendas much?   

Future?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, GoAU said:

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat myslef on this topic to you - it’s like talking to a wall. It only takes you two seconds  to argue the points you want to hear versus what is being said.  I am less concerned with individual companies than I am with conglomerations forming to control markets.  
 

The unionization of the NFL is not an issue if the owners know how to write a proper CBA.  And I’ve said before (and will again) my issue is not with CK and his opinions as much as it is with the NFL and giving that idiot a platform during “work time”.   It’s costing them a ton of money and viewers though, hope they learn that people watch football games to see football.   It is ironic how quick the NFL stepped in to prohibit the Dallas Cowboys from having a Helene sticker to honor the 6 police officers that were killed in Dallas though.   

There's zero evidence of conglomerations forming to control markets.  It's not a legitimate concern at this time.

And the NFL giving him a platform during "work time" as you put it is a non-sequitor to a discussion of free speech.  Collectively bargained between the workforce and the ownership.  Don't like it?  Either don't watch or become an owner and be a part of the process.

[GoAU 1,600]

2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

There's zero evidence of conglomerations forming to control markets.  It's not a legitimate concern at this time.

And the NFL giving him a platform during "work time" as you put it is a non-sequitor to a discussion of free speech.  Collectively bargained between the workforce and the ownership.  Don't like it?  Either don't watch or become an owner and be a part of the process.

Zero evidence - AWS, Google, and Apple all acting simultaneously to not address the Presidents individual account, but a rapidly rising alternative to Twitter?   Not a coincidence.  Just because YOU say it isn’t and issue doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.  You’re bias is clear. 
 

you are wrong on the CK / NFL  issue - period.  The fact that the NFL allows it is the issue, but there is nothing that prevented them from stopping it.  

[GoAU 1,600]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Future?

Shocking

[Grumps 3,704]

Uganda is taking the Twitter and Facebook approach to their elections. Censorship is ok, right?

https://news.yahoo.com/ugandan-opposition-presidential-candidate-bobi-061826706.html

Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

Tue, January 12, 2021, 12:18 AM CST

 

 

KAMPALA (Reuters) - Uganda banned social media and beefed up security in the capital on Tuesday, two days ahead of a presidential election pitting Yoweri Museveni, one of Africa's longest-serving leaders, against opposition frontrunner Bobi Wine, a popular singer.

Campaigning ahead of the vote has been marred by brutal crackdowns on opposition rallies that have left scores dead and the repeated intimidation and arrest of some opposition candidates, their supporters and campaign staff.

Videos posted on social media on Tuesday showed a convoy of armoured military vehicles heading towards Kampala and then moving slowly through various streets in the heart of the capital, which typically votes against Museveni.

 

In a television address on Tuesday evening, the 76-year-old leader who took power in 1986, said he had met with the security forces and they were ready to defend any Ugandans worried about coming out to vote because of intimidation by the opposition.

"There is no threat we cannot defeat," said Museveni, wearing a military camouflage jacket. "We have got all sorts of means, simple and complex."

The European Union said on Tuesday it expected Uganda to provide a level-playing field for all voters to exercise their democratic rights without fear of intimidation or violence.

"The excessive use of force by law enforcement and security agencies has seriously tarnished this electoral process," said Josep Borrell, the EU's top diplomat. He said the bloc's offer to deploy a small team of electoral experts was not taken up.

Museveni apologised for the inconvenience caused by the ban on social media and messaging apps but he said Uganda had no choice after Facebook took down some accounts which backed his ruling National Resistance Movement (NRM) party.

"If you want to take sides against the NRM, then that group should not operate in Uganda," he said. "We cannot tolerate this arrogance of anybody coming to decide for us who is good and who is bad."

SOCIAL MEDIA BLACKOUT

In a letter seen by Reuters to internet service providers dated Jan. 12, Uganda's communications regulator ordered them to block all social media platforms and messaging apps until further notice.

Internet monitor NetBlocks said its data showed that Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Instagram, Skype, Snapchat, Viber and Google Play Store were among a lengthy list of sites unavailable via Uganda's main cell network operators.

Facebook said on Monday it had taken down a network linked to Uganda's ministry of information for using fake and duplicate accounts to post ahead of this week's election.

At 38, Wine is half Museveni's age and he has attracted a large following among young people in a nation where 80% of the population are under 30.

Wine is considered the frontrunner among 10 candidates challenging Museveni, who brought stability to the country after the murderous reigns of dictators Milton Obote and Idi Amin.

While security forces have intimidated the opposition at previous elections, the run up to this year's vote has been especially violent. In November, 54 people were killed as soldiers and police quelled protests after Wine was detained.

The authorities say opposition rallies break COVID-19 curbs on large gatherings in some parts of the country. Rights groups say the restrictions are a pretext for muzzling the opposition.

On Tuesday, Wine said soldiers raided his home in Kampala and arrested his guards while he was giving an interview to a Kenyan radio station. He also said a team member who works mainly as a mechanic was shot dead by the military overnight.

Reuters was not immediately able to verify the claims and a military spokesmen did not respond to a call seeking comment.

Patrick Onyango, police spokesman for Kampala, denied Wine's home had been raided or that anyone was arrested.

'UNACCEPTABLE BREACHES'

The International Press Institute, a global media watchdog, called on Uganda to reinstate social media networks.

"Any efforts to block online access to journalists or members of the public are unacceptable breaches of the right to information," it said in a statement.

South African telecoms company MTN Group, the leading mobile operator in Uganda with 60% of the market, said it had complied with the blocking order and was working with the authorities to limit the scope and duration of the disruption.

Wine has been using Facebook to relay live coverage of his campaigns and news conferences after he said many media outlets had declined to host him. Most radio and TV stations are owned by government allies and Uganda's leading daily is state-run.

Museveni has won every election since the first under his presidency in 1996, though they have been tarnished by intimidation of the opposition and accusations of vote rigging.

Uganda is a Western ally, a prospective oil producer and is considered a stabilising force in a region where war has plagued some neighbours. It also contributes the biggest contingent of an African Union force fighting Islamist insurgents in Somalia.

(Reporting by Nairobi newsroom; Writing by Maggie Fick; Editing by Giles Elgood and David Clarke)

[Grumps 3,704]

 

[Grumps 3,704]

Trump certainly seems to be a horrible person. I am very glad that after next week he will no longer be POTUS. But the idea that he intentionally incited people to break into the Capitol is laughable. But hey, let's spend millions to impeach him when all you have to do to get him out of office is to do NOTHING for eight more days. Our government cannot even get doing nothing right.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 hours ago, GoAU said:

Zero evidence - AWS, Google, and Apple all acting simultaneously to not address the Presidents individual account, but a rapidly rising alternative to Twitter?   Not a coincidence.  Just because YOU say it isn’t and issue doesn’t mean it’s not an issue.  You’re bias is clear. 
 

you are wrong on the CK / NFL  issue - period.  The fact that the NFL allows it is the issue, but there is nothing that prevented them from stopping it.  

You say it's not a coincidence.  Maybe they got pressure from their users or, in AWS' cases, companies willing to stop using their platform without action?  Not everything is nefarious dude.  Business decisions were made.  Plain and simple.

As for the CK/NFL thing, the NFL allowing it is an issue to you.  Big difference from making it an actual issue.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

Trump certainly seems to be a horrible person. I am very glad that after next week he will no longer be POTUS. But the idea that he intentionally incited people to break into the Capitol is laughable. But hey, let's spend millions to impeach him when all you have to do to get him out of office is to do NOTHING for eight more days. Our government cannot even get doing nothing right.

So your kid does something crappy and severely damages your house, but is moving out in 8 days.  You just gonna let that slide?

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:09 PM, Farmer Brown said:

This is an honest question. Do you all see the ban of conservatives, from social media platforms, as the restricting of free speech. Good ole Tim Cook, is part of it also. Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, are all complicit in censorship. Whether we agree or not, I wouldn't restrict your right of expression, and freedom of speech, for a minute. 

Not censorship. These are all private enterprises. They have no obligation to provide a platform for anyone.

 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:28 PM, Farmer Brown said:

They shouldn't have section 230 protections, if they are private, if I understand that correctly. 

You do not understand it correctly.

[Grumps 3,704]

47 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

So your kid does something crappy and severely damages your house, but is moving out in 8 days.  You just gonna let that slide?

No, but if my kid's friends break in and damage my house when my kid isn't there then I am not going to punish my kid.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:06 PM, woodford said:

The irony is how folks on the left will (on a dime mind you) turn into absolute free market capitalists the moment big tech censorship is brought up. “It’s a private company! If you don’t like it, make your own platform.” However, a few years ago they were screaming “bake the ******* cake!!” 

No, here's the irony. Now it's YOU screaming (in effect) “bake the ******* cake!!” 

[Grumps 3,704]

7 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Not censorship. These are all private enterprises. They have no obligation to provide a platform for anyone.

 

It IS censorship, but it is not a violation of your first amendment rights. Funny flowchart!

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

Uganda is taking the Twitter and Facebook approach to their elections. Censorship is ok, right?

https://news.yahoo.com/ugandan-opposition-presidential-candidate-bobi-061826706.html

Uganda bans social media ahead of presidential election

Tue, January 12, 2021, 12:18 AM CST

 

 

KAMPALA (Reuters) - Uganda banned social media and beefed up security in the capital on Tuesday, two days ahead of a presidential election pitting Yoweri Museveni, one of Africa's longest-serving leaders, against opposition frontrunner Bobi Wine, a popular singer.

[snip]

Are you really daft? This is an action by the Ugandan GOVERNMENT. Do you not understand the difference between actions ORDERED BY GOVERNMENT and actions taken by private interests not ordered by government? Dude...come on.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

31 minutes ago, Grumps said:

It IS censorship, but it is not a violation of your first amendment rights. Funny flowchart!

If you submit a book manuscript to a publisher and they decline to publish it, is that censorship? If you submit a letter to the editor of a newspaper or magazine and they decline to publish it, is that censorship? If you stand up and yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater where there is no fire and get arrested, have your rights to free speech been violated? Are you being censored?

[ScotsAU 1,331]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:09 PM, Farmer Brown said:

This is an honest question. Do you all see the ban of conservatives, from social media platforms, as the restricting of free speech. Good ole Tim Cook, is part of it also. Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook, are all complicit in censorship. Whether we agree or not, I wouldn't restrict your right of expression, and freedom of speech, for a minute. 

6 pages of debate is too much to read, so I’ll just give my 2 cents. Censorship only applies to government organizations. Prior to the 14th amendment, it didn’t even apply to state governments. Private companies have every legal right to restrict speech. If Facebook was owned by the government, there would be a problem. Since Facebook is a private company, they can limit what is said. 
 

Also, on a personal note, I support these companies doing this. They aren’t going after conservative leaning sources or people. They are attacking misinformation, which has been running rampant lately. Both sides of the political spectrum are guilty of it. Lately, the people on the far right have been super guilty of spreading false information and unsubstantiated rumors. Parler in particular had become a source of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. 
 

FYI, I’m a moderate and have no allegiance to either side.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

10 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Are you really daft? This is an action by the Ugandan GOVERNMENT. Do you not understand the difference between actions ORDERED BY GOVERNMENT and actions taken by private interests not ordered by government? Dude...come on.

lol

The left in Congress for the last 4 years have been demanding social media monopolies to censor and restrict more content. Silicon Valley's political campaign donations have overwhelmingly been to Democrats. They've been using their financial support to get tech people into positions within the government and even more so now under Biden. It all started with the 2016 election with the pretext of Russia interference and then devolved into censoring Trump's tweets, and then restricting right leaning articles from being shared like the NY Post(Twitter actually locked their account for 2 weeks) story on Hunter Biden before the 2020 election. Now we're seeing mass purging from social media where even right leaning users who never once called called for violence or unrest have had their accounts suspended or taken down.

 

 

[Leftfield 2,598]

5 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Now we're seeing mass purging from social media where even right leaning users who never once called called for violence or unrest have had their accounts suspended or taken down.

I haven't heard about this. Which platforms have been doing this?

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

Are you really daft? This is an action by the Ugandan GOVERNMENT. Do you not understand the difference between actions ORDERED BY GOVERNMENT and actions taken by private interests not ordered by government? Dude...come on.

Yes, Grumps is really daft.  

[AUDub 11,148]

18 hours ago, GoAU said:

There are plenty of conservative voices on Parler too, oh wait a minute....

“Armed acolytes “.  Foreshadowing future agendas much?   

A sampling of some of this conservative thought. 

 

[homersapien 11,373]

16 hours ago, Grumps said:

Trump certainly seems to be a horrible person. I am very glad that after next week he will no longer be POTUS. But the idea that he intentionally incited people to break into the Capitol is laughable. But hey, let's spend millions to impeach him when all you have to do to get him out of office is to do NOTHING for eight more days. Our government cannot even get doing nothing right.

Your take on this is what is laughable.  

That mob was responding to the constant big lie of a "stolen election" that Trump had been harping on since the voted were counted -  "stop the steal" 

They descended on the capitol exactly as Trump urged them to do. They responded to Trump's rhetoric  at the "save America" rally exactly how he intended them to.  And he welcomed his surrogates to reinforce it: i.e.: Giulini's  "let's have trial by combat". 

And then when it started, Trump didn't lift a finger to try to stop them:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-mob-failure/2021/01/11/36a46e2e-542e-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html

This riot was clearly a product of Trump's inflaming his rabid supporters for weeks with the "big lie" and he was hard a work instigating it right up to the point of calling for them advance to the capitol.

As an American citizen, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for defending him. 

Or is it that you believe the big lie?  Do you support a violent overthrow of our government based on the absurd notion the Democrats stole the election from the rightful winner?

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,373]

12 hours ago, Grumps said:

No, but if my kid's friends break in and damage my house when my kid isn't there then I am not going to punish my kid.

What if your kid's friends were acting as a result of your kid promulgating a big lie, followed by his inciting them to action?