Allen Greene needs to step up concerning vaccinations

[au701948 1,001]

3 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i think it is funny he bashes huffington post when hannity and carlson both pushed cattle dewormer. and of course people are getting sick. but no deaths yet. how do you refuse a vaccine and then take cow meds? i hate to think people are that damn stupid. my preacher friend took some kind of covid antibodies after he and his wife both got it. do you think they are a viable alternative dag?

I don't know which would be worse, cattle dewormer or Hydroxychlroquine. It is unbelievably insane just how far some folks will go to leave reality behind!

Edited August 23, 2021 by au701948

[au701948 1,001]

2 hours ago, abw0004 said:

All I will say is this:  I fully understand the only way to truly change someone's mind that COVID-19 is a real threat is for a non-believer to get COVID-19.  I am not here to argue until we are blue in the face about it.  All I ask is be courteous to others and understand that some people just won't want to be around you.  For example, my father has cancer and would not survive this illness so I couldn't risk him being around you.  No hard feelings if you tell me you aren't vaccinated, especially if that knowledge could prevent something catastrophic to my father.

I will say that if you do catch it and go to the hospital, I do feel you should have the last priority for a bed and should be at the end of the line.  Those spots are for people who took it seriously.  My girlfriend is obtaining her doctorate at Emory hospital in Atlanta specializing in medicine for rural communities and she is telling me not only is the hospital full, but over 90% of the people there thought the disease was a hoax and it is difficult for her to hear these dying patients beg for the vaccine.

abw, I have mentioned the same concept before that when hospitals begin to choose to triage and place vaccinated patients before un-vaccinated due to capacity/best use of resources, it may wake up some of the lingerers. However, some folks just are not savageable.

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, au701948 said:

abw, I have mentioned the same concept before that when hospitals begin to choose to triage and place vaccinated patients before un-vaccinated due to capacity/best use of resources, it may wake up some of the lingerers. However, some folks just are not savageable.

Yeah, I'm afraid that will only make them angrier. 

 

[Butthead 525]

2 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

Logical fallacies 101. You're going full ad hominem. The Huff Po, just as Fox News, has some articles/info/reporting that is credible and some that is not. Both outlets carry things from a wide variety of sources. Just as I will check out an article and not disregard it simply because it's on Fox News, you should do the same for Huff Po. Throw out the chaff. Keep the wheat.

You will not find one post where I have said you should get medical advice from Fox News.  I don't partake of much Fox News, but for the record, Fox broadcasts two things -- news and opinion.  There is a difference between the two.  Their news service is pretty decent.  The rest is just opinion/noise.  Huff Po is no different than Hannity, but the other side.  Nothing credible there pertaining to your healthcare.  

[au701948 1,001]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yeah, I'm afraid that will only make them angrier. 

 

I agree 100%. I am sure something of that nature may very well not be medically nor morally correct. But we all have seen what happens in the case of a major traumatic event and first responders are far outnumbered by the number of casualties.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, au701948 said:

I agree 100%. I am sure something of that nature may very well not be medically nor morally correct. But we all have seen what happens in the case of a major traumatic event and first responders are far outnumbered by the number of casualties.

Watched the opening of Saving Private Ryan again just the other day. Gut wrenching stuff. But the decisions had to be made.

[steeleagle 2,945]

18 minutes ago, Butthead said:

You will not find one post where I have said you should get medical advice from Fox News.  I don't partake of much Fox News, but for the record, Fox broadcasts two things -- news and opinion.  There is a difference between the two.  Their news service is pretty decent.  The rest is just opinion/noise.  Huff Po is no different than Hannity, but the other side.  Nothing credible there pertaining to your healthcare.  

Agree. I like some of Fox like Baer and McCallum to some extent.

The worst is Hannity. He can't be trusted on anything he says about anything that doesnt fit the ultra conservative platform.

I used to like Carlson, bc he would bring on opposite views from all aspects of life and go at it. But he at least let them argue with him. But now he is just a more polished Hannity and more educated probably..

[Barnacle 9,064]

Somewhat getting back on topic - JHoke posted on this topic on another board. Forgive me if this is against the rules, but I'll sum up. 

The players have been educated and encouraged over and over that the vaccine is safe. Team doctors support and encourage the vaccine. No one within the program has discouraged players from taking the vaccine. The approach Harsin has taken is simply to educate the players, and allow them to make their own decisions. 

I don't know what other programs have been doing. I do believe effective leadership starts at the top, and it starts by example. If you want to give players autonomy, fine. In fact, I think that's healthy. That said, you also have to understand the amount of influence your own decisions have on your players' decision making process. If a team's head coach isn't vaccinated, then it gives other coaches more license to refuse the vaccine. If coaches aren't getting vaccinated, it's likely that players won't either. So, this issue isn't as simple to me as players getting to make their own choices. It begins and ends with the personal choices leadership are making. 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

1 hour ago, Butthead said:

  Huff Po is no different than Hannity, but the other side.  Nothing credible there pertaining to your healthcare.  

 

All you have done here is confirm that you aren't really familiar with HuffPo. HuffPo has a fair share of "woo" BS. But it also has a hard news side. Same as Fox.

On edit...

To be very clear, I don't rely on or recommend HuffPo as a primary news source any more than I rely on or recommend Fox. As I said earlier though, not everything at either site is chaff. There is some wheat. I'm not about to ignore accurate info simply because of the URL (web site) where it's found. Like I said, logical fallacies (ad hominem) 101.

Second edit...

Hard news at HuffPo:  https://www.huffpost.com/news/

Politics (often slanted and not necessarily hard news, but it varies) at HuffPo: https://www.huffpost.com/news/politics

I rest my case.

Edited August 23, 2021 by CleCoTiger

[provibe 261]

2 hours ago, UncommonGrackle said:

What is being seen here is the decay of trust. The United States (for the most part) used to be a high trust society, meaning you would help your neighbor and trust they would help you, you trusted your job to pay you money, you trusted the bank to hold your money, you trusted your money to be worth something, you trusted the police if you needed help, you trusted the doctor if you were sick and you trusted the mechanic if your car was broken.  This trust was influenced by shared ethical values and a general identification with those around you as fellows. 

 

Now, there are a lot of factors eating away at trust, some valid some not, some deliberate some not, some avoidable frankly some not. Social media eats away at trust because studies confirmed that what most drives engagement tends to be anger, indignation and fear. Algorithms are used every day to bring more extreme content to more people. Remember clicks and views and shares make money. 

 

“Traditional” media does the same thing for the same reasons ($$$) since fear and anger bring engagement there must always be a new fear, whether it’s valid or not. 

 

The intense politicization of our society erodes trust because of our inherent tribal nature, someone’s espousing of views that oppose our own makes us feel attacked and simultaneously makes us discount anything else that person espouses.  

 

Certain philosophical and political viewpoints themselves erode trust, some violently so. A two party system fosters mistrust and tribalism. 

 

It is popular (and perhaps reasonably so) to be hyper critical of and mistrusting of ALL of our institutions now, and such criticisms and highlighted shortcomings erode trust (though it’s frequently deserved). The medical field is now getting a taste of a common refrain from the  American citizens, who now no longer trust and feel qualified to naysay doctors, lawyers, teachers, cops, judges, climate scientists, researchers, lawmakers, farmers and any and every government agency. Some of this, again, is earned but usually only in the micro where the mistrust is in the macro. 

 

Someone as old as I am has seen sharks, killer bees, murder hornets, SARS, lard, natural sugar and Ebola all be the next thing that will kill you. Ive seen plastic shopping bags be adopted wholesale because they were better for the environment than paper. Ive seen eggs go from deadly to healthy to deadly and then healthy again. Ive seen ads for cigarettes from doctors and smoking sections in restaurants. Ive seen medical recalls for hip replacement, stomach mesh, birth control, a few dozen medications and baby powder.  Ive seen OxyContin  prescribed by the fistful by trusted doctors for  wisdom teeth removal. Hydrocodone cough syrup for a respiratory infection. Ive seen the media shill for tough on crime and the war on drugs, against tough on crime and the war on drugs, for the gulf war, against the gulf war, for the war on terror and against the war on terror, for immigration and against immigration, fear an ice age and global warming, fear sugar and fear corn syrup. I was taught the food pyramid for a balanced meal. I’ve seen news reports on incidents I had first hand knowledge of be incorrectly reported specifically to be unnecessarily inflammatory. I’ve seen the resurgence of yellow journalism and sensationalism where quiet retractions of corrupted facts often give way to no retractions at all.

 

 For the record I got the vaccine back in February. 

 

I said all that to say two things: one, those who express reluctance to get a vaccine simply don’t trust that the links to data are reliable. They (and please admit it, logically) see a (to them) unheard of medical technology that they know no human has had for longer than a year or so and they specifically mistrust someone who will promise them it is safe long term specifically because making that promise makes the promiser untrustworthy. Bear in mind that most people don’t fear death, they fear novel death. People eat fast food, consume massive amounts of sugar and processed food, embrace obesity, text and drive, drink alcohol, use drugs, live in Flint, Michigan, and gleefully trash the environment for convenience and money. As people grow more and more used to covid-19, fewer people will be willing to undergo any amount of inconvenience to mitigate risk. 

 

Two: get used to it. We are in a spiral. Making us hate and fear each other is good business for media companies and it’s good politics for politicians. Outside of those deliberately corrupt but huge influences there are dozens of factors that make us trust each other less and less and less. 

This! I believe this to be very true and is probably the best post that explains why most of unvaccinated are hesitant to take vaccine

[japantiger 4,051]

2 hours ago, UncommonGrackle said:

What is being seen here is the decay of trust. The United States (for the most part) used to be a high trust society, meaning you would help your neighbor and trust they would help you, you trusted your job to pay you money, you trusted the bank to hold your money, you trusted your money to be worth something, you trusted the police if you needed help, you trusted the doctor if you were sick and you trusted the mechanic if your car was broken.  This trust was influenced by shared ethical values and a general identification with those around you as fellows. 

 

Now, there are a lot of factors eating away at trust, some valid some not, some deliberate some not, some avoidable frankly some not. Social media eats away at trust because studies confirmed that what most drives engagement tends to be anger, indignation and fear. Algorithms are used every day to bring more extreme content to more people. Remember clicks and views and shares make money. 

 

“Traditional” media does the same thing for the same reasons ($$$) since fear and anger bring engagement there must always be a new fear, whether it’s valid or not. 

 

The intense politicization of our society erodes trust because of our inherent tribal nature, someone’s espousing of views that oppose our own makes us feel attacked and simultaneously makes us discount anything else that person espouses.  

 

Certain philosophical and political viewpoints themselves erode trust, some violently so. A two party system fosters mistrust and tribalism. 

 

It is popular (and perhaps reasonably so) to be hyper critical of and mistrusting of ALL of our institutions now, and such criticisms and highlighted shortcomings erode trust (though it’s frequently deserved). The medical field is now getting a taste of a common refrain from the  American citizens, who now no longer trust and feel qualified to naysay doctors, lawyers, teachers, cops, judges, climate scientists, researchers, lawmakers, farmers and any and every government agency. Some of this, again, is earned but usually only in the micro where the mistrust is in the macro. 

 

Someone as old as I am has seen sharks, killer bees, murder hornets, SARS, lard, natural sugar and Ebola all be the next thing that will kill you. Ive seen plastic shopping bags be adopted wholesale because they were better for the environment than paper. Ive seen eggs go from deadly to healthy to deadly and then healthy again. Ive seen ads for cigarettes from doctors and smoking sections in restaurants. Ive seen medical recalls for hip replacement, stomach mesh, birth control, a few dozen medications and baby powder.  Ive seen OxyContin  prescribed by the fistful by trusted doctors for  wisdom teeth removal. Hydrocodone cough syrup for a respiratory infection. Ive seen the media shill for tough on crime and the war on drugs, against tough on crime and the war on drugs, for the gulf war, against the gulf war, for the war on terror and against the war on terror, for immigration and against immigration, fear an ice age and global warming, fear sugar and fear corn syrup. I was taught the food pyramid for a balanced meal. I’ve seen news reports on incidents I had first hand knowledge of be incorrectly reported specifically to be unnecessarily inflammatory. I’ve seen the resurgence of yellow journalism and sensationalism where quiet retractions of corrupted facts often give way to no retractions at all.

 

 For the record I got the vaccine back in February. 

 

I said all that to say two things: one, those who express reluctance to get a vaccine simply don’t trust that the links to data are reliable. They (and please admit it, logically) see a (to them) unheard of medical technology that they know no human has had for longer than a year or so and they specifically mistrust someone who will promise them it is safe long term specifically because making that promise makes the promiser untrustworthy. Bear in mind that most people don’t fear death, they fear novel death. People eat fast food, consume massive amounts of sugar and processed food, embrace obesity, text and drive, drink alcohol, use drugs, live in Flint, Michigan, and gleefully trash the environment for convenience and money. As people grow more and more used to covid-19, fewer people will be willing to undergo any amount of inconvenience to mitigate risk. 

 

Two: get used to it. We are in a spiral. Making us hate and fear each other is good business for media companies and it’s good politics for politicians. Outside of those deliberately corrupt but huge influences there are dozens of factors that make us trust each other less and less and less. 

Well said.  

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

So to summarize:

We don't know if Bryan Harsin is vaccinated or not. Reportedly Mason is vaxxed, but has also tested positive.

We have heard that there is opposition in the locker room among players to the vaccine. This sounds like some group think is happening. Keep in mind that these are young adults who were aware of the vaccine before ever even meeting Bryan Harsin for the first time. 

Harsin was likely very aware of the opposition in the locker room before his comments at SEC media days. Remember coaches showed up with vax rate numbers so the league's rule wasn't new knowledge. 

Harsin and the team's medical staff have encouraged vaccination.

Regarding the SEC's vax rule. The athletic department was told they'd receive the official policy before the season. Well.....at least one well connected insider has said that the SEC has yet to provide a written policy of vax rates and testing protocols, only rhetoric. 

Now assuming Harsin himself is vaccinated, how could he have handled this situation better other than affirming his own status publicly?

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

Hard one for Green & Harsin, IMHO. Media is hung up on the constitutional rights part of this. FDA needs to complete its due dligence in re-categorizing 1 or more covid vaccines from "approved for emergency use only" (read by many as "experimental"), to an FDA generally approved vaccine. Convincing an athlete to put an emergency-use drug in a currently robust, healthy body could be a long discussion.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

4 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Hard one for Green & Harsin, IMHO. Media is hung up on the constitutional rights part of this. FDA needs to complete its due dligence in re-categorizing 1 or more covid vaccines from "approved for emergency use only" (read by many as "experimental"), to an FDA generally approved vaccine. Convincing an athlete to put an emergency-use drug in a currently robust, healthy body could be a long discussion.

FDA did approve the Pfizer today.

LINK

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, ValleyTiger said:

FDA did approve the Pfizer today.

LINK

A lot of people left themselves a very comfy out for citing the lack of FDA approval as their reason not to get vaccinated. I hope they take that out now. I have no choice but to be optimistic that they do, and that they bring some more skeptical folks with them.

[DAG 33,997]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

A lot of people left themselves a very comfy out for citing the lack of FDA approval as their reason not to get vaccinated. I hope they take that out now. I have no choice but to be optimistic that they do, and that they bring some more skeptical folks with them.

They would just say they don’t trust the FDA. 

[DAG 33,997]

3 hours ago, UncommonGrackle said:

Bear in mind that most people don’t fear death, they fear novel death. People eat fast food, consume massive amounts of sugar and processed food, embrace obesity, text and drive, drink alcohol, use drugs, live in Flint, Michigan, and gleefully trash the environment for convenience and money. As people grow more and more used to covid-19, fewer people will be willing to undergo any amount of inconvenience to mitigate risk

Been saying this for months now. People would go to McDonald’s before getting the vaccination 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

They would just say they don’t trust the FDA. 

If someone said that they're waiting on FDA approval, then at least they have to contradict themselves- as opposed to MSM, experts (who they call "experts"), libtards, that guy who stole the election, all the data, science, the health care community, etc- in order to not now get the shot. Might not matter but at least now it's "But YOU said..." Not Fauci, not Rachel Maddow, not Hillary Clinton, but the very person in question.

[DAG 33,997]

Just now, McLoofus said:

If someone said that they're waiting on FDA approval, then at least they have to contradict themselves- as opposed to MSM, experts (who they call "experts"), libtards, that guy who stole the election, all the data, science, the health care community, etc- in order to not now get the shot. Might not matter but at least now it's "But YOU said..." Not Fauci, not Rachel Maddow, not Hillary Clinton, but the very person in question.

Oh contradiction has been here from the start ! Trust. I am waiting to hear from those now who said they are waiting for FDA approval.

 

[japantiger 4,051]

Not really sure at this point why they are rushing Phizer approval given latest data out of Israel.  It is now a below average flu vaccine and there is an absolute "cliff" in effectiveness @ the 6 month mark down to 16% effective.  Why not go with one of the more effective ones? Is this expected to improve Vax rates?  Does anyone have any info on what is up with approvals timing on the other vaccines? 

"Israeli health officials on Thursday reported that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is just 39 percent effective in preventing infections with the more contagious Delta variant, while noting that the vaccine remains highly effective in preventing serious illness and hospitalization, according to reports.

New statistics from Israel’s Health Ministry, released Thursday, indicated that the vaccine jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech provided 88 percent protection against hospitalization and 91.4 percent against severe illness, while being just 39 percent effective against the Delta strain, Bloomberg reported.

The outlet reported that the Health Ministry report also indicated waning effectiveness of the vaccine over time, with just 16 percent effectiveness in preventing COVID-19 transmission among those who received the vaccine in January. Effectiveness rose to 44 percent for those who got the shot in February, 67 percent for March, and 75 percent for April."

https://www.journalposts.com/israel-finds-39-percent-effectiveness-of-pfizer-vaccine-in-halting-delta-variant-infections-reports-jp/

 

 

 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

4 minutes ago, japantiger said:

"Israeli health officials on Thursday reported that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is just 39 percent effective in preventing infections with the more contagious Delta variant, while noting that the vaccine remains highly effective in preventing serious illness and hospitalization, according to reports.

New statistics from Israel’s Health Ministry, released Thursday, indicated that the vaccine jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech provided 88 percent protection against hospitalization and 91.4 percent against severe illness, while being just 39 percent effective against the Delta strain, Bloomberg reported.

https://www.journalposts.com/israel-finds-39-percent-effectiveness-of-pfizer-vaccine-in-halting-delta-variant-infections-reports-jp/

 

 

 

These paragraphs just don't exist, right?

[Tony4AU 386]

There's the Israel info I mentioned in another thread.

Just shows the need for booster shot or another great reason to get the shot now if haven't already.

[DAG 33,997]

So let’s do a risk or benefits analysis. No protection versus 40 percent protection . Yeah let’s go with no protection . That makes sense 

[japantiger 4,051]

21 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

These paragraphs just don't exist, right?

Presumably they all do...so given this one falls off a cliff at 6 months...why not approve Moderna or another which holds up better?

Pfizer is really more of a therapeutic than vaccine.  

Edited August 23, 2021 by japantiger
Added comment

[auburnphan 6,050]

41 minutes ago, DAG said:

They would just say they don’t trust the FDA. 

winner, winner.