Harsin and the PTB

[CCTAU 3,326]

1 hour ago, Carnell said:

I think the definition of a HR hire is a coach that one can check all the boxes for a hire. For Auburn I think a HR hire would be a well known well respected guy that can instantly go up against Saben in recruiting, a really good on the field coach, a good developer of talent or someone that good at recognizing unidentified talent and again well respected so top flight assistants would want to come in and work for him.

So basically guy who doesn't exist...

 

Until he does...

Edited January 24, 2022 by CCTAU

[RunInRed 16,409]

28 minutes ago, AuburnEagle79 said:

Mason wanted out. Harsin was fine with it and moved on. I think it's really this simple. 

Mason doesn't need Auburn and Auburn doesn't need him. I don't mean that in a harsh way, both parties will be fine.

Harsin can make his coaching decisions and if he wins nobody cares and if he loses he gets fired. 

Hammer meet nail.

[Mcbowen327 63]

4 minutes ago, CCTAU said:

So basically guy who doesn't exist...

 

Until he does...

I can think of at least 5 names being thrown around in the coaching carousel this year I feel like can make a positive impact the moment news breaks that they have took a new job

[CCTAU 3,326]

2 minutes ago, Mcbowen327 said:

I can think of at least 5 names being thrown around in the coaching carousel this year I feel like can make a positive impact the moment news breaks that they have took a new job

Name them.

That way we can agree with you...or laugh at you.

 

[Carnell 592]

23 minutes ago, CCTAU said:

So basically guy who doesn't exist...

 

Until he does...

Sure he does Dennis Allen, Eric bienemy, Mike Zimmer, Todd boles.

[Hank2020 3,199]

7 minutes ago, Carnell said:

Sure he does Dennis Allen, Eric bienemy, Mike Zimmer, Todd boles.

You are more likely to get Saban than that group. They are career NFL coaches that are not coming down to CFB. 

[JerryAU 1,659]

41 minutes ago, Carnell said:

Sure he does Dennis Allen, Eric bienemy, Mike Zimmer, Todd boles.

How do they recruit, handle NIL & the transfer portal?

College ball is whole other can of worms and it became much more intricate and vastly unpredictable the last couple of yrs. 

[Hank2020 3,199]

14 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

How do they recruit, handle NIL & the transfer portal?

College ball is whole other can of worms and it became much more intricate and vastly unpredictable the last couple of yrs. 

and we should understand that when assessing what we think of our 1st year HC.

[Mcbowen327 63]

1 hour ago, CCTAU said:

Name them.

That way we can agree with you...or laugh at you.

 

Riley, Kelly, and Cristobal are 3 I feel that took a new job and instantly made the team better that took jobs this year. Kiffin was mentioned alot and Dabo I believe may could be lured away. And that's not counting coaches that I don't think can be hired from their current school

[W.E.D 11,070]

6 minutes ago, Mcbowen327 said:

Riley, Kelly, and Cristobal are 3 I feel that took a new job and instantly made the team better that took jobs this year. Kiffin was mentioned alot and Dabo I believe may could be lured away. And that's not counting coaches that I don't think can be hired from their current school

C'mon.  Those 1st two are jokes.  Neither of them would have ever ever ever left OU/ND, respectively, for Auburn.

[AuburnEagle79 2,167]

8 minutes ago, Mcbowen327 said:

Riley, Kelly, and Cristobal are 3 I feel that took a new job and instantly made the team better that took jobs this year. Kiffin was mentioned alot and Dabo I believe may could be lured away. And that's not counting coaches that I don't think can be hired from their current school

FYI, you're gonna get roasted, so I won't pile on...

I agree that Riley, Kelly, and Cristobal all are improvements, but you also have to look at the state that each of those programs were in to get those guys. USC and Miami have been irrelevant and Ed O was a walking NCAA violation that got lucky with Burrow/Brady (IE Chiz with Cam).

Zero chance Dabo would leave Clemson for Auburn, but I was a big fan of going after Kiffin.

Despite all of Gus Malzahn's shortcomings, which there were many, he didn't sink the program. He developed a terrible easy-going culture, didn't recruit/develop linemen, and didn't develop QB's.

Harsin literally fits the mold of issue 1 and 3 perfectly. Culture of hard work and discipline and a QB developer, not to mention a lifetime winner, so I think it was a good hire regardless of how it turns out. 

[Carnell 592]

37 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

How do they recruit, handle NIL & the transfer portal?

College ball is whole other can of worms and it became much more intricate and vastly unpredictable the last couple of yrs. 

Recruit well they can stand up to Saben in front of recruits and say show me your super bowl ring, transfer portal really no one is handling that well but the better talented teams the portal is less of a burden than lesser talented teams so a great recruiter will improve the talent.  NIL that to me is a system wide approach with boosters, administrators and coaches but this is really uncharted waters because it's new to the current college coaches also so these coaches would be close to equal footing with the current college coaches on the transfer portal and NIL.

[steeleagle 2,945]

14 hours ago, au302 said:

While maybe not initially, I think we may be letting Harsin run the program right now without interference. Thoughts on other sites that the General is behind him and giving him basically whatever he wants. I have no insight, am most likely completely off base here. Just my own inferences from reading around. For better or worse, we're too far down the rabbit hole with him overhauling the program and need to stick it out at this point. Gotta stomach it for three years and then see where you're at, barring a 2012 like season next year

So you think that Harsin's hires to begin with Bobo/Friend, Mason, C. WIlliams, etc were not his own ideas and decisions?

It's just weird that we are overhauling it continually. In season and after season.

I do wonder how many of these hires were NOT his first choice which we know did happen?

And he's mixing up again his new hires.  Another ex AU coach(which not so great recruiting results, only bc Harsin or Mason didn't get who they really wanted), and a LB coach w/ SEC ties. The rest all Boise ST...

 

 

[Hank2020 3,199]

2 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

So you think that Harsin's hires to begin with Bobo/Friend, Mason, C. WIlliams, etc were not his own ideas and decisions?

It's just weird that we are overhauling it continually. In season and after season.

I do wonder how many of these hires were NOT his first choice which we know did happen?

And he's mixing up again his new hires.  Another ex AU coach(which not so great recruiting results, only bc Harsin or Mason didn't get who they really wanted), and a LB coach w/ SEC ties. The rest all Boise ST...

 

 

It don’t really matter how they were hired or even why they left. We are at this juncture now and have to move forward.

[steeleagle 2,945]

47 minutes ago, AuburnEagle79 said:

FYI, you're gonna get roasted, so I won't pile on...

I agree that Riley, Kelly, and Cristobal all are improvements, but you also have to look at the state that each of those programs were in to get those guys. USC and Miami have been irrelevant and Ed O was a walking NCAA violation that got lucky with Burrow/Brady (IE Chiz with Cam).

Zero chance Dabo would leave Clemson for Auburn, but I was a big fan of going after Kiffin.

Despite all of Gus Malzahn's shortcomings, which there were many, he didn't sink the program. He developed a terrible easy-going culture, didn't recruit/develop linemen, and didn't develop QB's.

Harsin literally fits the mold of issue 1 and 3 perfectly. Culture of hard work and discipline and a QB developer, not to mention a lifetime winner, so I think it was a good hire regardless of how it turns out. 

If ahrsin doesn't develop a core recruiting successful group, then the other 2 good parts of his coaching foes out the door...

And he's teetering on a avg to unstable recruiting staff. 

Think about it, Some of his key recruiters, not counting the analysts, are no longer there? So now he's getting 4 new ones (Davis, DL, DC, LB) and they have to recruit now the 2023 guys again.... 

[au302 2,669]

12 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

So you think that Harsin's hires to begin with Bobo/Friend, Mason, C. WIlliams, etc were not his own ideas and decisions?

It's just weird that we are overhauling it continually. In season and after season.

I do wonder how many of these hires were NOT his first choice which we know did happen?

And he's mixing up again his new hires.  Another ex AU coach(which not so great recruiting results, only bc Harsin or Mason didn't get who they really wanted), and a LB coach w/ SEC ties. The rest all Boise ST...

 

 

No, saying that since it's been debated on here for a while and none of us know. Very well, even likely, that it was on his own. If so, his mistake. Agree that turnover is not good. We need stability.

[steeleagle 2,945]

6 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

It don’t really matter how they were hired or even why they left. We are at this juncture now and have to move forward.

It does if you base your comments on previous hires and decisions a coach made on his own or from other AU sources.

There is always internal conflicts in a staff, but its now a matter of if all these new guys can do better than the others...

Then you are right...just sit back and eval later as a fan again...

 

[Didba 5,256]

7 hours ago, Hay Field 101 said:

That's better because if they ever run out of face palms and Ha Ha's you want anything left to post. 

What?

[Didba 5,256]

5 hours ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Let me guess, Wyoming 6 Man State Champions?

Dude... Don't dox me like that geeeeez...

[Didba 5,256]

4 hours ago, abw0004 said:

Even if they are upset, they still know their stuff.  Some of those people are actually on staff.

I am just relaying as it appeared to me.

[abw0004 10,113]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

I am just relaying as it appeared to me.

I completely understand how it might have come across.  Sent you a PM.

[AuburnEagle79 2,167]

17 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

If ahrsin doesn't develop a core recruiting successful group, then the other 2 good parts of his coaching foes out the door...

And he's teetering on a avg to unstable recruiting staff. 

Think about it, Some of his key recruiters, not counting the analysts, are no longer there? So now he's getting 4 new ones (Davis, DL, DC, LB) and they have to recruit now the 2023 guys again.... 

I think it's definitely gonna be an uphill climb for him, but he knows that. 

Either he will recruit, develop, and win, or he's gone. He recruited last year on short notice and this year. We will see how development and winning goes this Fall.

If he can't put it all together, he's done, but that doesn't mean it's a sinking ship or anything like that at this very moment. 

[Hank2020 3,199]

19 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

It does if you base your comments on previous hires and decisions a coach made on his own or from other AU sources.

There is always internal conflicts in a staff, but its now a matter of if all these new guys can do better than the others...

Then you are right...just sit back and eval later as a fan again...

 

I leave the eval to Coach Harsin and just be a FAN.

[AuburnNTexas 7,147]

Harsin came here from Boise some people immediately assumed he was not ready for the SEC.  Others saw a hard nosed coach that wanted to change the culture at Auburn of those some thought it would be an overnight change others thought it would take a few years. We beat Ole Miss and many think we are one of top teams in the country despite some obvious areas of weakness (O-line adequate but not great, WR's so so, not enough depth in D-Line).  We lost SC game when we were better team probably due to Bobo not calling a very good game. We had great 1st half against Miss State but Bobo goes into shell on Offense and D-Line depth issue is exposed as they run out of gas.  On top of that Bo is injured and we don't have a QB ready for the SEC at this time (TJ could improve this year).  Then without Bo we lose out even after playing our best defensive game of the year against Alabama. Bobo did improve play calling compared to previous year using TE's and RB's in passing attack but also caused us to lose a couple of games SC and Miss. State. so Harsin let him go. At the time everybody thought that was right move and showed Harsin saw a problem and fixed it. 

We have lost a lot of players in the Portal as have most teams, also because this is a new regime trying to change culture there should be some churn in the Portal. Riley at USC has come in and stated he wants to have a 35 player turnover and everybody thinks that is great why is it not great at Auburn.  There are legitimate areas that Harsin has not addressed O-Line 1 HS player so far and no Portal O-Line so far. We actually did well in other areas on Offense the HS QB with great upside and 2 Portal QB's to help us find a starter and backup depth, a really good HS RB , 3 HS WR's, and a HS TE.  He has not been able to bring in an Impact WR from Portal up to this point.  The signing class did a pretty good job of addressing Defensive needs a JUCO, a  Portal, and a HS D-line, Multiple DB's HS, Juco, and Portal, 2 HS LB's one who may be an Edge Rusher and a Portal LB.  We also lost talent to the Portal  a couple of NT's and an Edge Rusher , DB's an RB etc., but we have some young players Brooks Edge Rusher and Wright who was our best  NT before injury and we may pickup another Edge Rusher from HS in late signing class. 

In some ways returning team is better that last year and in other ways we may be worse but we won't know until we see development in Spring and Fall of players on roster and who else we may pick up in late signing period and Portal.

So the big meltdown is Mason leaving. There has been every theory under the sun for the reason he is leaving from one extreme to the other some Harsin is horrible and we are a sinking ship to other extreme Harsin was not satisfied with Mason and is trying to improve. We will never know the true story.  

Basically we have to wait and see will we find a true QB1 at least as good as BO and a solid backup by fall, will any of our non-starting O-line players from this year develop and beat out returning O-linemen, will our Defense be solid with a new DC, by late signing period next year to June next year will we have the type of HS class we need and will we have found the type of Portal players we need to fill in the gaps. 

At that point we should see if a new culture is developing at Auburn or if Harsin appears to be over his head.  I really think it takes about 4 years to judge a new head coach  especially if trying to change the culture.  Next year we should see stability in coaching ranks, a very good recruiting class HS and Portal and we should be competitive in every game which we were this year except Georgia despite our record.

Edited January 24, 2022 by AuburnNTexas

[gc2525 17]

22 hours ago, AUght2win said:

With all the drama happening at Auburn it's truly amazing that our beat writers have illuminated next to nothing. I guess Phillip Marshall is too busy writing "hot takes" about social media to actually get important answers. 

Regardless, is there any insight on what is actually happening? Particularly, I want to know the dynamic of Harsin and the PTB.

This has been the popular rumor/excuse for apologists for the coaching exodus - that Harsin didn't want Mason or Bobo or anyone outside of "his guys", but they were forced on him by the PTB. And therefore, this exodus is no big deal. Maybe even a positive!

Someone explain to me how that makes ANY sense.

Firstly, reconcile how the PTB has the power to force coordinators on Harsin, yet couldn't stop ADAG from hiring Harsin in the first place? The thing almost all Auburn fans agreed on when Harsin was hired, is we were excited because this was clearly a move made in defiance of the PTB. But they somehow regained their influence for coordinator hires?

Secondly, reconcile why Harsin, a guy so "my way or the highway" would come here in the first place knowing he couldn't hire who he wanted to coordinate?

And lastly, how are the new hires of Robinson and Brumbaugh more "Harsin's guys" than Mason or Bobo - if the idea is that Harsin is now finally hiring the staff he wants?

Here's what seems apparent to me until otherwise reputed - Harsin wooed Derek Mason to Auburn, and it was his biggest coaching coup. Mason could have gone virtually anywhere he wanted. For a highly sought after guy to choose Auburn was a huge endorsement for Harsin. 

If the PTB had to "force him" on Harsin, the CBH is hopeless. But I don't believe that.

I believe a simpler, but arguably more unpleasant truth: that in just one year, CDM was so repulsed by how CBH ran his program, he left without a job in hand. Not for a HC or NFL job like we thought he would eventually. He just left. 

If the PTB forced Mason on CBH, there needs to be some proof shown. Whether or not that happened is hugely important to interpreting what is really happening in Auburn right now.

Just a thought.....Harsin is not an SEC man and he really needed to understand the SEC.  What better way to do that then to hire long time SEC coaches on his staff to educate him.  I think Harsin's plan all along was to promote his guys that have been with him but they are needed to study from someone who has been there before.  I like the way the man is playing his cards but he is smart enough to understand that when the cards are all yours you better win....no excuses!  I am for giving the man is fair chance and after one season I will not kick him to the curb.  Even Lord Satan barely had a winning season and the bama faithful did not call for his resignation!!